Chigaco build 73g Failed to initialize display adapter error

[Mr.Scienceman2000]

I have been trying to install Microsoft Chigaco build 73g to Microsoft virtual pc 2007. Everything works flawlessly until I try change color setting to true color. During reboot after it gives "failed to initialize display adapter". Is this issue with Virtualpc 2007 S3 video card or with Chigaco build 73g? Reason why use virtual PC is since it allow higher resolution and color settings than Virtualbox or Vmware under win 9X/early NT betas.
Any way to fix this or have to stick with lower display settings?

[TheCollector1988]

Don't bother with VPC's s3 emulation, it's a hackjob by Microsoft. 86Box allows you to have a true S3 Trio64 emulation (even through the Vision964).
Edit: True color in 73g using VPC? Really, don't bother, it won't work. And because 73g expects an earlier S3 chip than the Trio32/64 for 16bpp/24bpp.

[_Ken_]

Don't bother with VPC's s3 emulation, it's a hackjob by Microsoft.

Calling 12 to 15 year old software that's had no updates or development done a hackjob isn't what I'd call it.
Horses for courses, use it on the hardware it was designed to run on & it works fine..

Edit: True color in 73g using VPC? Really, don't bother, it won't work. And because 73g expects an earlier S3 chip than the Trio32/64 for 16bpp/24bpp.

Yes it does expect an earlier chip, that doesn't stop anyone from finding or experimenting with period drivers til you work out what does a better job than the std supplied driver..

As far as using it in VPC with it's original drivers, if you don't go over 256 colors it works fine on some pretty good resolution settings..

Here's a few pics running many apps on VPC with 256 color settings, never crashes or locks up, for me, it works fine when run on the hardware it was originally designed to run on..

[Battler]

Calling 12 to 15 year old software that's had no updates or development done a hackjob isn't what I'd call it.

No, he's calling their S3 emulation a hackjob, which it is. Or better, it could be called a properitary Microsoft clone of S3-compatible graphics.
Virtual PC's emulated S3 claims to be a 732 chip (so a Trio32), yet it supports 4 MB (only support on a 764/Trio64) or even 8 or 16 MB (that never existed on a period S3 card) video RAM, and improperly at that (replace the custom S3 BIOS with a real S3 BIOS and observe its VESA information call report only 2 MB).
The customized BIOS is also bigger than 32 kB, for no real reason (it's pretty simple to make it fit into 32 kB by just removing most of the empty space between the two halves of it) and that causes problems with EMM386 and Windows 3.0 (it hangs if there's stuff in segment C800).
But back to its S3 emulation, try using it in Windows 95 with the built-in S3 Trio driver - the color etc. glitches are noticable. The Windows 3.1 driver is so unstable that Win32s 1.30c becomes unstable with it.
Compare it to PCem/86Box/VARCem, where any S3 Trio drivers work out of the box, with no instability or glitches, the Trio32 and Trio64 are clearly separated, and 4 MB video RAM is properly supported.

Yes it does expect an earlier chip, that doesn't stop anyone from finding or experimenting with period drivers til you work out what does a better job than the std supplied driver..

As far as using it in VPC with it's original drivers, if you don't go over 256 colors it works fine on some pretty good resolution settings..

Here's a few pics running many apps on VPC with 256 color settings, never crashes or locks up, works fine when run on the hardware it was originally designed to run on..

Noone disputes that, but:
1. Not everyone is still using a host PC that old, most people use newer machines, and Virtual PC is a no go on them, and if someone is going to spend money to buy an old PC, they're more likely to spend money on an actual 90's machine than on something that runs XP;
2. Noone disputes it works in 256 colors, but TheCollector1988 was talking about true color.

So in short, Virtual PC's S3 emulation is leaves a lot to be desired, as it has a plethora of bugs, glitches, and outright inaccuracies to it, and while Virtual PC works fine on hardware it was designed for, most people no longer use such hardware, so for all intents and purposes, in 2019, one should not use Virtual PC to run builds from this era, and should instead use an emulator.

[TheCollector1988]

About true color in action:

[_Ken_]

1. Not everyone is still using a host PC that old, most people use newer machines, and Virtual PC is a no go on them, and if someone is going to spend money to buy an old PC, they're more likely to spend money on an actual 90's machine than on

I didn't say everyone is using a PC that old, I stated "use it on the hardware it was designed to run on & it works fine.."

2. Noone disputes it works in 256 colors, but TheCollector1988 was talking about true color.

Show me where I or anyone else in this thread disputed any fact regarding running in 256 colors..?

No, he's calling their S3 emulation a hackjob,

Whatever terminology you like to twist it into, the reference I was referring to is the VPC software & the job it does itself, which I've not had a problem with.

So in short, Virtual PC's S3 emulation is leaves a lot to be desired, as it has a plethora of bugs, glitches, and outright inaccuracies to it, and while Virtual PC works fine on hardware it was designed for, most people no longer use such hardware, so for all intents and purposes, in 2019, one should not use Virtual PC to run builds from this era, and should instead use an emulator.

Except the OP asked "Is this issue with Virtualpc 2007 S3 video card or with Chigaco build 73g?"
& I answered the question based on my own personal experience with VPC, that is don't run it over 256 colors,
He didn't ask advice on what other emulator or whatever to run, he asked how to make VPC work, I answered the question, & now you're getting bent out of shape because why exactly..?

About true color in action:

At no point in my posting did I or anyone else discredit the fact that other alternatives do a better job.
Again, the poster asked how to make vpc work, I answered based on my own personal experience..
Should I not have, is this like some touchy-feely out of bounds subject that nobody should discuss if it doesn't push an agenda driven by other alternatives..
At no point was I flying the flag for VPC, I answered the question asked without any agenda driven response, there was no malice, misleading facts, or discrediting of other alternatives to emulation or whatever, & suddenly, the knife's fly thick & fast..

[Overdoze]

Well I think the answers to OP's questions were made clear. It's an issue with VPC's S3 emulation and there doesn't appear to be any way of fixing it without using something else.

[_Ken_]

Well I think the answers to OP's questions were made clear. It's an issue with VPC's S3 emulation and there doesn't appear to be any way of fixing it without using something else.

Or don't run over 256 colors, which he stated he did.

[Overdoze]

Or don't run over 256 colors, which he stated he did.

That's not fixing the true color issue at all. It's just working around it by using a lower color depth instead. Fixing it would mean you could actually get it to work somehow.

[_Ken_]

Or don't run over 256 colors, which he stated he did.

That's not fixing the true color issue at all. It's just working around it by using a lower color depth instead. Fixing it would mean you could actually get it to work somehow.

Any way to fix this or have to stick with lower display settings?

Also, I never said running 256 colors fixes it, I said don't run over 256 colors..

Is there a reason everything that I've said in this thread is getting twisted from what I posted..?

As far as using it in VPC with it's original drivers, if you don't go over 256 colors it works fine on some pretty good resolution settings..

[Overdoze]

Well since you conveniently ignored the first part of his question, which I addressed:

Any way to fix this or have to stick with lower display settings?

So how about we meet in the middle and agree that you can only get 256 colors in Virtual PC and have to use something else for true color?

[_Ken_]

Well since you conveniently ignored the first part of his question, which I addressed:

Any way to fix this or have to stick with lower display settings?

So how about we meet in the middle and agree that you can only get 256 colors in Virtual PC and have to use something else for true color?

As far as using it in VPC with it's original drivers, if you don't go over 256 colors it works fine on some pretty good resolution settings..

I didn't conveniently ignore any part of the OP's post, I actually did answer it in my first posting, though it seems the agenda here isn't to offer advice regarding the use of VPC, but rather discredit anyone else that does.

that doesn't stop anyone from finding or experimenting with period drivers til you work out what does a better job than the std supplied driver..

Perhaps my posts need to be thousand word essays to elaborate the finer points of finding a working driver.


If postings regarding the use of VPC are taboo, just say so..!
BTW, I don't answer posts to have to argue & defend my intentions of helping someone, I generally answer posts based on my own personal experience with what I'm responding to..

[Overdoze]

Seeing that discussion is going nowhere and that pretty much all relevant options have already been given (reminder: 256 colors on VPC or true color elsewhere), I think it's up to the OP to do as he pleases and no need for us to drag this any further.

[mrpijey]

Please stop bickering and stay on the topic. And no, posting regarding the use of VPC is absolutely not taboo, just drop the hidden insinuations and personal arguments. Argue the facts, not who said what and why.

[_Ken_]

So I took a good look at TheCollector1988's picture, & thought to myself, really, what's the difference, so I then copied his screenshot onto the right of mine, & apart from mine having a brighter desktop background, his Color Palette stating it's 16.8 million colors, & the blue active title bar on mine being slightly brighter, there is no difference, his screen is also 256 colors, why..?

About true color in action:

After realizing yours looks the same as mine, I realized, you chose 16.8mil from the dropdown menu for the screenshot, your's isn't high res at all, not until you press the active "Apply Now" button then reboot, why would you post a screen of 256 color & say it's high res..

[TheCollector1988]

The build apparently has a limitation about true color, it can only be used with 640x480, and 15/16bpp can be used in 640x480 and 800x600 modes only, regardless of the vram the cards have.
Mine is definitely in 24bpp true color mode if you haven't noticed, the "Apply now" is like that with that color depth. Want further proof? I can post my system.ini.

[Battler]

After realizing yours looks the same as mine, I realized, you chose 16.8mil from the dropdown menu for the screenshot, your's isn't high res at all, not until you press the active "Apply Now" button then reboot, why would you post a screen of 256 color & say it's high res..

Actually, I confirm what TheColllector1988 just said, for some reason, with the S3 801 driver, 58s shows the Apply Now button always enabled in Properties for Desktop. I can provide the VM and the required 86Box binary if evidence is needed. So no, his screenshot is not of the 256 color mode.

[_Ken_]

Well since you conveniently ignored the first part of his question, which I addressed:

Any way to fix this or have to stick with lower display settings?

Did I, best you don't watch this then, since it's nothing but drivers that's fixing the problem..

that doesn't stop anyone from finding or experimenting with period drivers til you work out what does a better job than the std supplied driver..

Theme colors a bit pox, I'll persevere til I find the right driver, the right inf edit, & the time to do it..

[TheCollector1988]

best bet, in 122's case, would be 189's driver (drv/vxd) with the latter's build dibeng.dll, 24 should be changed to 32bpp while using that driver.
Edit: Ken's blue bug above happens especially with the Vision964 and Trio32/64 cards on 86box, but not with the 86c801, where it works fine by having the correct color.

[_Ken_]

Luckily my driver CD collection is almost as big as my beta collection once was, I will eventually get the driver combination & editing of the install.inf right with regards to registry entries, though for now All modes work in build 122, just the 32bit is all that shows odd colors now..

What was the 2 points I posted in my first posting here..

use it on the hardware it was designed to run on & it works fine..

Yes it does expect an earlier chip, that doesn't stop anyone from finding or experimenting with period drivers til you work out what does a better job than the std supplied driver..

& then offered some simple advice if you can't be bothered sourcing the right drivers & doing what I originally suggested..

As far as using it in VPC with it's original drivers, if you don't go over 256 colors it works fine on some pretty good resolution settings..

But hey, what do I know..!
Once that's sorted, working backwards from build 122 will be on the cards, time permitting..

[_Ken_]

The build apparently has a limitation about true color, it can only be used with 640x480, and 15/16bpp can be used in 640x480 and 800x600 modes only, regardless of the vram the cards have.
Mine is definitely in 24bpp true color mode if you haven't noticed, the "Apply now" is like that with that color depth. Want further proof? I can post my system.ini.

Perhaps that's why the "Apply Now" button remains in an active state, you're probably running it in a resolution setting it's not happy with..
I say this because all driver versions I just tested on the final build 950, (6 of them) flat out refused to run 24bit, even though some of the installers added the option to run in 24bit, 2 of them also came with an alternative S3 install.inf file that left the 24bpp option out, I tried running the installers that also copied the 24bpp drivers during the installation, Windows 95 still refused to run in 24bpp, & as soon as it finished rebooting after setting 24bpp, would state it's not configured right, even though the appropriate 24bpp drivers were installed, however the true color 32 bit option was no problems.

[Battler]

Perhaps that's why the "Apply Now" button remains in an active state, you're probably running it in a resolution setting it's not happy with..

Or maybe it's just a bug in Chicago 73g, which, given it's an alpha stage build, should not be a surprise at all.

I say this because all driver versions I just tested on the final build 950, (6 of them) flat out refused to run 24bit, even though some of the installers added the option to run in 24bit, 2 of them also came with an alternative S3 install.inf file that left the 24bpp option out, I tried running the installers that also copied the 24bpp drivers during the installation, Windows 95 still refused to run in 24bpp, & as soon as it finished rebooting after setting 24bpp, would state it's not configured right, even though the appropriate 24bpp drivers were installed, however the true color 32 bit option was no problems.

Did you try that only on Virtual PC? Was it tried on PCem/86Box/VARCem, or on a real S3 Trio for that matter? Because this behavior could be specific to Virtual PC.
From what I know, Windows 95 lists every mode the driver's .INF file tells it to list, but it can only actually set the modes supported by the video BIOS. The symptom you reporterted happens when the video mode you're told it to set, is not supported by the BIOS.
If you link the driver you used for this test, I could try it on 86Box and see what happens.

Also, while Cirrus Logic is not S3, I can assure you that on both the 486 and the Pentium 100 that we used to have two decades ago, we ran Windows 95 RTM (and later, Windows 98 SE RTM) in 640x480x24bpp, on the CL-GD 542x on the 486, and on the CL-GD 5446 on the Pentium 100 - neither card's driver listed 32bpp as an option. So Windows 95 RTM definitely supports 24bpp.

[_Ken_]

Where did I state that Windows 95 in all cases flat out refuses to run in 24bpp in all brands of vga cards, there'd be no reason for the presence of such an entry in any install.inf if it were a redundant setting..

The video I linked clearly shows VPC, & since it's clear thecollector1988 is also running an S3 card, it would stand to reason I'm referring to an S3 card..

About true color in action:

[Battler]

The video I linked clearly shows VPC,

Yes, and my question still stands, did you try to repeat the procedure on anything other than Virtual PC?

Because TheCollector1988 showed a screenshot of Chicago 73g running in 24bpp on 86Box. You are claiming Chicago 73g might not be liking the mode, and citing the results of testing various S3 drivers on Windows 95 RTM on Virtual PC as supporting of that conclusion, hence my question if you tried it on 86Box that he used (or on PCem or VARCem, both of which use the same S3 Trio emulation as 86Box).

Also, again, could you please link the driver you used?

[_Ken_]

The video I linked clearly shows VPC,

Yes, and my question still stands, did you try to repeat the procedure on anything other than Virtual PC?

No I didn't, I thought this topic was about the OP using VPC, & how bad it runs Win9x systems..

Because TheCollector1988 showed a screenshot of Chicago 73g running in 24bpp on 86Box. You are claiming Chicago 73g might not be liking the mode, and citing the results of testing various S3 drivers on Windows 95 RTM on Virtual PC

That's because of the 6 non Microsoft drivers I tried on VPC, none supported 24bpp, even though some of the installers actually had 24bpp named drivers included, though I did find it odd that 2 of them included an inf that had the 24bpp removed, one could only conclude that there was a reason for doing so..
So I suggested that the "Apply Now" button in thecollector1998's screenshot may be remaining in an active state because of being forced to running a resolution it's not meant to be running, yes I know I'm comparing apples to oranges, though seeing they're both S3 cards, I figured their may be a connecting reason, are you suggesting that if I suspect there's a reason for something being the way it is, that I say nothing in future..

Also, again, could you please link the driver you used?

I tried 6 different non MS drivers, pretty sure 3 of them are S3 sourced.
It makes no difference now though, I sourced a genuine Microsoft driver for 95 1st edition, I reluctantly opened an unopened copy of Windows 95 Game SDK, many of what was in it non DX wise were file versioned 4.00.950, so a perfect test from what I can see, & what do you know, no 24bpp option was included in the DX S3 driver update, & it runs 32bit beyond 640x480..
I'm pretty sure that the Game SDK with DX1 is on the ftp by now, you could download that for the drivers..
Also on Win9x supported builds, you can use the Game SDK to install just the driver only from the install options menu..

I can live with not having 24bpp when 32bpp in a larger screen size is available..




EDIT; just realized the screens could be claimed as running on a real machine, not VPC, so I took a photo, this is running the largest resolution available, & still runs 32bpp, damn VPC is junk aye..!
sorry, had to throw that in..

Yes I know it's not 73g, though the accusations are that it's junk on win9x systems..


Anyway, back to finding 73g's driver problem..