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 PostPost subject: Could ReactOS replace Windows? (in the future)        Posted: Mon May 07, 2018 10:21 pm 
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I've followed the ReactOS development the last months, and I saw a very handy feature: forward compatibility with NT 6.x apps. This lead me to think, ReactOS is getting better and better. At some point it will be equivalent to Windows Server 2003 (The version they try to achieve). And after some time, they'll achieve Windows 7 compatibility. At some point it will be compatible even with Windows 10, and that might end near 2025-2027, the official Windows 10 support date.

So by 2025-2027, ReactOS might be finished and compatible, at the point of being a "free Windows"
Some points to remark are:
  1. Totally capable and compatible
  2. People would not need to buy licenses because it's free
  3. it wouldn't have telemetry nor ads
  4. It would have a store too (Maybe the store isn't a very remarkable point)
  5. It's "actively developed" (Not so actively)
  6. It has very low system requirements (Revive that old PC ;))
  7. Many Linux capabilities (A great Linux subsystem)
And the list goes on. There are many advantages of switching to ReactOS, I just listed the ones come to my mind right now. By the time of 2025 it might be quiet finished, so the people could switch, and the OS could grow, but could it grow enough to beat Windows?

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 PostPost subject: Re: Could ReactOS replace Windows? (in the future)        Posted: Tue May 08, 2018 1:29 am 
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No it would never replace Windows unless you mean some old vintage Windows version, but then you might as well run the original. Even if ReactOS will be "finished" by 2027 Microsoft won't stop developing Windows until then. ReactOS is no more than a science project for educational and proof of concept purposes.

And frankly, by 2027 Microsoft Windows could be free as well...

As for your points:

1. Compared to what? Win9x or NT? No one that anymore in a serious production environment, and the original would be better suited except for extremely rare cases.
2. Free doesn't always mean good or the better solution. And again, Microsoft are moving towards a free solution for Windows anyways.
3. Nor is it an issue except for those that collect tinfoil hats and believe the US government is tapping everyones internet connection (also known as "nutjobs").
4. No comment
5. Kind of contradictory. It's either actively developed or it's not. Either way, for every major breakthrough ReactOS makes MS pushes Windows through 10 breakthroughs. So when ReactOS is "done" it's already so out of date that you will have difficulties finding any practical scenarios for it.
6. So does Windows 9x, NT 4.0 and Windows 2000 (which is roughly where ReactOS has been for decades with only recent initial base level support for 2003). Considering where hardware is going there won't be any point keeping and running vintage hardware for any purposes except research and education. And you can run a MODERN OS on a cheap IoT device today, in 2027 you will be able to run a modern Windows on your smartwatch....
7. This could be the only real advantage of ReactOS, but since MS are moving in this direction already with WSL...

Your assumption are based on that Windows won't be developed any further and allows ReactOS to catch up so people can "switch" to it and that their vintage hardware for some obscure reason can't run (the vintage) Windows anymore. That's quite absurd unless Microsoft cancels any further development of Windows, bankrupts or otherwise disappear from the market. Which is highly unlikely. So no, people won't switch to it unless ReactOS has something they absolutely require. And again, if Windows compatibility is all you need then I don't think Microsoft will mind you running NT4, Windows 2000 or even XP, original or otherwise. In 2027 even Windows 10 (by todays standard) will be obsolete...

ReactOS is an interesting project but believing that it will change anything on the big user market is hilarious to say the least.

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 PostPost subject: Re: Could ReactOS replace Windows? (in the future)        Posted: Tue May 08, 2018 2:27 am 
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mrpijey wrote:
3. Nor is it an issue except for those that collect tinfoil hats and believe the US government is tapping everyones internet connection (also known as "nutjobs").


Actually, it's a proven fact that the government is indeed doing that.

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 PostPost subject: Re: Could ReactOS replace Windows? (in the future)        Posted: Tue May 08, 2018 6:23 am 
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Yeah, I've seen "proof" that the earth is flat too and run by lizard people. Please, let's be realistic here and keep this discussion outside the realm of the supernatural...

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 PostPost subject: Re: Could ReactOS replace Windows? (in the future)        Posted: Tue May 08, 2018 6:38 am 
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Personally, I think that ReactOS has a lot of promise, but becoming fully compatible with Windows 10 any time in the foreseeable future would require a LOT more support (in the form of money, devs, etc.) than they have right now. Of course, being able to fully replace XP/Server 2003 with an open source OS would itself be immensely useful, and I'm looking forward to see their progress with that.


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 PostPost subject: Re: Could ReactOS replace Windows? (in the future)        Posted: Tue May 08, 2018 8:21 am 
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mrpijey wrote:
Yeah, I've seen "proof" that the earth is flat too and run by lizard people. Please, let's be realistic here and keep this discussion outside the realm of the supernatural...


Though you don't want to talk about it, he's right. Of course there is nobody looking at all this stuff personally (except some algorithms), but in fact, everything is monitored. That's why they have the large Utah Data Center. Here in Germany, everything done on the internet is redirected over Frankfurt to the UK and from there, sent to the US.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_su ... %93present)


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 PostPost subject: Re: Could ReactOS replace Windows? (in the future)        Posted: Tue May 08, 2018 12:08 pm 
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Whilst far from a perfect solution, your favourite unix plus wine is more feasible as a windows alternative.


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 PostPost subject: Re: Could ReactOS replace Windows? (in the future)        Posted: Tue May 08, 2018 7:28 pm 
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nixie wrote:
Whilst far from a perfect solution, your favourite unix plus wine is more feasible as a windows alternative.

UNIX will never be the same as Windows. The UI, having to learn a ton about a new OS (Adapting), and Wine is far from perfect, in fact, Wine uses part of the ReactOS code to run, so nor Wine nor UNIX will be a perfect alternative (Not even a descent one)

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 PostPost subject: Re: Could ReactOS replace Windows? (in the future)        Posted: Tue May 08, 2018 8:08 pm 
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ReactOS was promised a *very* long time ago and their target architecture is less relevent by the day.

Wine really sucks at times, but at least it (mostly) works.


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 PostPost subject: Re: Could ReactOS replace Windows? (in the future)        Posted: Tue May 08, 2018 8:20 pm 
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mrpijey wrote:
Yeah, I've seen "proof" that the earth is flat too and run by lizard people. Please, let's be realistic here and keep this discussion outside the realm of the supernatural...

*hehe* *hehe* *hehe* *hehe* you made my day !

also.. reactos is a BIG waste of time and a huge fail that will die sooner or later !


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 PostPost subject: Re: Could ReactOS replace Windows? (in the future)        Posted: Tue May 08, 2018 8:37 pm 
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ReactOS isn't a big waste at all, but people shouldn't sit around on their hands believing that it will change anything. It's a research and development project maintained by people that have specific interests and goals, that's all.

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 PostPost subject: Windows will be open-sourced?        Posted: Tue May 08, 2018 9:25 pm 
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Is GNU/Windows “definetly possible”?
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 PostPost subject: Themes        Posted: Tue May 08, 2018 9:26 pm 
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SistemaRayoXP wrote:
I've followed the ReactOS development the last months, and I saw a very handy feature: forward compatibility with NT 6.x apps. This lead me to think, ReactOS is getting better and better. At some point it will be equivalent to Windows Server 2003 (The version they try to achieve). And after some time, they'll achieve Windows 7 compatibility. At some point it will be compatible even with Windows 10, and that might end near 2025-2027, the official Windows 10 support date.

So by 2025-2027, ReactOS might be finished and compatible, at the point of being a "free Windows"
Some points to remark are:
  1. Totally capable and compatible
  2. People would not need to buy licenses because it's free
  3. it wouldn't have telemetry nor ads
  4. It would have a store too (Maybe the store isn't a very remarkable point)
  5. It's "actively developed" (Not so actively)
  6. It has very low system requirements (Revive that old PC ;))
  7. Many Linux capabilities (A great Linux subsystem)
And the list goes on. There are many advantages of switching to ReactOS, I just listed the ones come to my mind right now. By the time of 2025 it might be quiet finished, so the people could switch, and the OS could grow, but could it grow enough to beat Windows?


They also need to consider, that some people prefer the layouts and features of different Windows versions.
Also, they might want to add some removed features such as the CMD messenger net send and msg in addition to some minorities such as the RAM size warning when selecting a huge cmd buffer size, and showing the number of kilobytes of RAM in the information window's of Notepad, Paint, Calculator, etc., both of which were removed in Windows 7.
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?sea ... fulltext=1


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 PostPost subject: Re: Could ReactOS replace Windows? (in the future)        Posted: Tue May 08, 2018 9:31 pm 
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aLinux wrote:
... also.. reactos is a BIG waste of time and a huge fail that will die sooner or later !


Just because didn't work FOR YOU, or it didn't got up YOUR expectations, doesn't mean is a fail or an huge waste of time. It will never "die" anyways, because, you know, its Open Source nature.
Btw, please keep your worthless sneering to you, isn't required here.

nixie wrote:
ReactOS was promised a *very* long time ago and their target architecture is less relevent by the day.


Who promised you anything? I don't remember seeing you in the forum, or in #reactos channel, and any ReactOS developer promising you anything.
ReactOS target isn't fixed in stone btw. Just recently was started some work to prepare the slow migration of the OS codebase to NT6 (WVista,W7). It will start first as a compatibility layer, in usermode.

-----
As mrpijey said, it's a research and development project maintained by people that have specific interests and goals.
Primary goal of the project has been always implement an Open Source version of the NT architecture. That's why team doesn't use other Kernels or OSs as system base. That's why also team doesn't use the same shortcut strategy WINE uses. This and the lack of skilled, untainted by MS, NT devs, is what makes project progression slow. In the other side, ReactOS codebase offers the most accurate view what happens inside NT without the risk of dirty RE windows with IDA or other similar tools, so isn't rare sometimes even WINE devs look inside ROS codebase to see how team does in certain aspects of system implementation. Then the hard work pays for devs, and finally ROS community.
While being an everyday OS isn't discarded by the team at all, and many of us in the community would like to replace Windows with ReactOS, as said before, isn't first goal for its development team. Release and Nightly system images are offered actually for testing purposes only as the system keeps in Alpha development stage. If your expectation is an stable system for everyday work or production, you should be looking in other release qualified systems to fulfill your requirements. That, or become a ReactOS dev, or code your own fixes and solutions for ReactOS.


Last edited by Hyoenmadan86 on Tue May 08, 2018 11:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 PostPost subject: Re: Could ReactOS replace Windows? (in the future)        Posted: Tue May 08, 2018 9:51 pm 
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SistemaRayoXP wrote:
nixie wrote:
Whilst far from a perfect solution, your favourite unix plus wine is more feasible as a windows alternative.

UNIX will never be the same as Windows. The UI, having to learn a ton about a new OS (Adapting), and Wine is far from perfect, in fact, Wine uses part of the ReactOS code to run, so nor Wine nor UNIX will be a perfect alternative (Not even a descent one)

You got that backwards. ReactOS is based on wine.


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 PostPost subject: Re: Could ReactOS replace Windows? (in the future)        Posted: Tue May 08, 2018 10:01 pm 
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ReactOS is not based on wine, but some of the DLLs it uses come from it. And from what I heard, they do "borrow" from each other in a few ways, but not so much that you can say that either is based on the other. https://www.reactos.org/wiki/WINE


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 PostPost subject: Re: Could ReactOS replace Windows? (in the future)        Posted: Wed May 09, 2018 6:38 am 
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Keep your personal insults and negative bashing off this community.

Warnings has been issued and topic cleaned up.

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 PostPost subject: Re: Could ReactOS replace Windows? (in the future)        Posted: Wed May 09, 2018 12:47 pm 
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As I am a bit confused as to the ultimate goals of the project..

..is it intended to be a serious player in industry?
..or simply a research project?


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 PostPost subject: Re: Could ReactOS replace Windows? (in the future)        Posted: Wed May 09, 2018 2:08 pm 
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As i said before, primary goal of the project has been always: Implement an Open Source version of the NT architecture. The rest is secondary and expected. Ofc, If the OS becomes someday an important player in the ecosystem, ReactOS team wouldn't oppose to it, but only as long as the first goal keeps true.


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 PostPost subject: Re: Could ReactOS replace Windows? (in the future)        Posted: Wed May 09, 2018 4:42 pm 
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ReactOS could replace Windows.... in certain situations, anyway. Industrial computers, for instance, which rely on support for older hardware standards can be targeted by the ReactOS team if need be, providing support for hardware that has fallen by the wayside of official software support channels. ReactOS has a place among many of the specific-use-case OS's that exist on the market today. From a purely speculative position, ReactOS will never replace Windows so much as diet soda will replace a strong bourbon. They are two very different beasts. The only common thing they have is a basis on the core NT OS principles. Anything beyond that is purely circumstantial of the research projects included in the code.

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 PostPost subject: Re: Could ReactOS replace Windows? (in the future)        Posted: Wed May 09, 2018 8:49 pm 
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silasqwerty1 wrote:
ReactOS is not based on wine, but some of the DLLs it uses come from it. And from what I heard, they do "borrow" from each other in a few ways, but not so much that you can say that either is based on the other. https://www.reactos.org/wiki/WINE

They borrow a lot of the code from it. The Win32 API is from wine, so a grand majority of what will ever work on ReactOS will also work on wine.


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 PostPost subject: Re: Could ReactOS replace Windows? (in the future)        Posted: Wed May 09, 2018 9:07 pm 
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Sorry, my error. Nor Wine nor ReactOS are based more one in another, they instead complement themselves. Some very useful code from Wine goes to ReactOS, and some very useful code from ReactOS goes to Wine, even sometimes the code is initially made to be ported to both proyects. I'd really like to see ReactOS as an everyday use OS
Hyoenmadan86 wrote:
If your expectation is an stable system for everyday work or production, you should be looking in other release qualified systems to fulfill your requirements. That, or become a ReactOS dev, or code your own fixes and solutions for ReactOS.

I'd really love to help to code ReactOS, but I have several difficulties, such as the fact that I code in NET and I'm just getting started in C++

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 PostPost subject: Re: Could ReactOS replace Windows? (in the future)        Posted: Thu May 10, 2018 12:04 am 
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dank101 wrote:
They borrow a lot of the code from it. The Win32 API is from wine, so a grand majority of what will ever work on ReactOS will also work on wine.


Your statement is a bit incorrect. ReactOS team takes almost all usermode libraries from WINE project, that's true. But that's only part of the Win32 API. Kernel Mode Win32 Csrss.exe, BaseSrv.dll, WinSrv.dll, Win32k.sys (the DIB render engine, Window Manager, USER and GDI Kernel mode code, the WinGL OpenGL ICD interface and the WIP implemented portions of DirectDraw and DxG API) and the corresponding GDI32, USER32 and KERNEL32 are ReactOS work. This is required because WINE uses for these a very different and incompatible "shortcut" architecture tailored to run Win32 api in an alien system, but not suitable to be used as a complete OS. Is true that certain portions of WINE code are still in these modules, like the Font Engine, which is also being replaced by a true Font Driver... But the amount of code is minimal, not complete modules, and these parts have to be synced with WINE tree carefully to avoid code overwritting with incompatible versions of the involved functions. This also explains why there are apps which work on WINE, but don't work in ReactOS. Things like NTLM and LSASS, which in *nix can be halfplemented, while having an external *nix program like SAMBA WINBIND implementing the rest aren't usable for ReactOS project and have to be implemented properly.


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 PostPost subject: Re: Could ReactOS replace Windows? (in the future)        Posted: Thu May 10, 2018 11:06 am 
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jimmsta wrote:
ReactOS could replace Windows.... in certain situations, anyway. Industrial computers, for instance, which rely on support for older hardware standards can be targeted by the ReactOS team if need be, providing support for hardware that has fallen by the wayside of official software support channels.

But those computers probably have quite unique hardware and/or software, so I'd imagine it would be less likely that ReactOS would serve as a drop-in replacement for Windows unless whoever wants it to work is also the one working on ReactOS.

I'd like ReactOS to get to a point where I can run it in a VM and it can run various pieces of Windows software that I want to use without much fuss. And by without much fuss I mean I hope they don't try to emulate Windows 10 with its settings spread out between Control Panel and Settings, and with the new interface I don't like. I guess everyone wants different things from it, and how many different interfaces would ReactOS ever be able to support simultaneously?


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 PostPost subject: Re: Could ReactOS replace Windows? (in the future)        Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 10:18 pm 
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Hey! Coming from ReactOS, hopefully I'll give you a satisfying answer.

ReactOS is being constructed in hard conditions. There is a lack of manpower, we have few active developers and rare external contributors (some of them become developers). Windows is also documented poorly, you have to apply reverse engineering methods. NT kernel is complex. We have been achieving the unbeliveable. Project also needs money to hire full-time devs. Theming support (and Office 2010) has become possible with lots of fixes in Win32 subsystem.

Well, unfortunately we missed the deadline of Windows XP. It's nothing unusual. ReactOS finally started to show non-experimental, stable things after 0.4.0. Lots of new stuff are working, real hardware support has increased, stability has increased... Many bugs in kernel are being fixed.

Another thing to discuss is forward compatibility. There's no choice. You have to catch up with modern Windows and need to draw attention. As you know, NT6 kernel has massive differences from NT5 and work on it is impossible until enough manpower arrives. Only a few functions are added for some programs and drivers as a temporary solution.

Currently, what does ReactOS do? It's still an experiment, riping day by day. Pluses: more filesystems than Windows, forwards compatibility mechanism, 3rd party tools, assistance to Wine, finding out MS bugs... with lots of minuses.

The two key things are long-awaited release of 0.4 and switching into Git. We have gained a big momentum! Lots of kernel bugs is being fixed as I said: support for new filesystems, fixing FAT32 operations, lesser and lesser corruptions, squashing memory leaks... and nearly self hosting! Don't forget to add the big progress on shell and Win32 subsystem, theming, filesystem-mania, NTVDM, much stable drivers and improved networking and upcoming USB revamp and x64 port... Patches, contributors and donations are coming!

In short, we're still experimental, developing steadily. People fed up with Windows might be a chance to get support, well, ReactOS is using this. With increasing popularity, I expect somewhat big things here. Keep walking!

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