About Windows NT 3.1 Build 438...

[WinPC]

I just thought that I would explain something here which I personally think is true, contrary to what other people were led to believe.

Windows NT 3.1 Build 438, unlike other builds of Windows NT 3.1, does not support installing by any means, unless an SCSI CD-ROM drive is present, and unlike other builds, Microsoft offers no way whatsoever of getting it installed otherwise.

I know that I first said that it might have had to do with the beta test period, but then louisw3 said no, and considering that he is apparently from that generation of operating systems (or so he claims), I then realized that it almost certainly had to do with the final product.

Then I started wondering, how "sneaker net" would work by installing hard drives in people's systems to load Windows NT Setup by unauthorized means (without use of the actual media), then I got to thinking something:

Windows NT, as many people here already know, was a heavily network-oriented operating system, and this definitely includes the first version, Windows NT 3.1 (networking was, perhaps, one of the main reasons why it was even developed, let alone released).

Well, over a network, as many of you might know by know, it has been common to install the same operating system onto many different systems (also known as deployment). Microsoft's EULA clearly forbids this practice without extra licenses for each system.

What if Microsoft implemented this restriction in the CD-ROM version of Windows NT, so as to prevent the unauthorized loading of Windows NT over a network to systems without CD-ROM drives (remember that for a networked PC to not have a CD-ROM drive at the time was still quite common)? What if this was down to help combat software piracy among networked systems in that manner?

That's what I think is going on here, especially given that as I've discovered, even during the unmodified Windows NT Setup in Build 438, the Setup files are still copied to the hard drive, in the same directory, C:\$WIN_NT$.~LS, so I highly doubt that it had anything to do with the Setup routine having not implemented this method of file copying for the Setup process.

Either way, I'll see if there is any information online about this apparent restriction in Windows NT 3.1.

[WindowsNeptune]

Well,I also met this problem, both install on DOS or wim3.x.....
But why MicrosoftCollectionBook can install this build? I really want to know.....
However I can't create a SCSI CD-ROM in VM.I can only Create a SCSI harddrive.....

[WinPC]

Did they have screenshots? If so, could Rob Jansen explain (in a video or with screenshots) how it was installed?

But yes, I've tried everything to fix it, but from what I've seen, it's simply not possible unless the build is somehow cracked. And yes, as I said above, I do believe that it was done for the final product, to help prevent unauthorized installations over networks (remember that Windows NT 3.1 was a network operating system, as I also explained above, so this I think is quite possible).

I'll keep trying, but I doubt that I'll have any success. I tried replacing one offending file, TXTSETUP.INF, but that only got me through the first portion of Setup. Later, I might try replacing WINNT.EXE, SETUPAPP.EXE, and even SETUPLDR though.

[WindowsNeptune]

Well, they used to have screenshots, but because of the website's update,they are not accessable now.

A SCSI CD-ROM........Why other builds can search it out but this build cannot?
Why Microsoft produce a uninstallable ISO?
I want to know.......

[WinPC]

It wouldn't be uninstallable for an SCSI CD-ROM drive. Remember that this was back when most CD-ROM drives were SCSI-based, so this does not really surprise me so much.

Anyway, I'm working on a crack for this restriction. I was able to get to the graphical user interface portion of Setup, but there were some errors with the Network control panel (apparently, this build changed more in functionality than I thought). Still, though, I'll once again try modifying the TXTSETUP.INF rather than strictly "replacing" it, and see if that will work.

[Rob Jansen]

I don't understand the need to create a new topic about the same subject, you created a while ago .

Anyway, I standby with what I say, it works fine.
Just look the screenshots, Virtual PC 2004, doesn't support SCSI (VPC doesn't support SCSI anyway).

http://www.microsoftcollectionbook.com/ ... orkstation

Just follow the normal installation instructions that are for the RTM.
It works fine, if it doesn't work for you, you are doing it wrong.

EDIT:
I also see you trying to replace files from different versions, that is not needed.
For this build I didn't need to add/remove any files before the installation, only during the installation with the Pentium II and higher patch, but that is chancing files installed during the first part of the installation.

[louisw3]

nope, works perfectly fine when installed from MS-DOS.

and by sneaker net, we just used MS-DOS backup, or Pkzip to create a multivolume zip across floppies.

While OS/2 betas that were on CD contained disk images that you'd use loadskf with to create your own OS/2 install set, MS went the 'bunch of files in a directory' approach.

NT 3.1 was a commercial disaster, but back the MS just wanted it in the hands of people, that is why there is no serial number checks, and even why NT 3.1 AS was incredibly cheap they were gunning for Novell.

[WinPC]

Here are my screenshots where I try to install it using the way that Rob Jansen mentioned above:

Booting from MS-DOS 6.0:


Running WINNT.EXE:


Windows NT Setup:


Creating a boot disk for Setup:


Copying files:




Restart message:


Setup reloads where from the boot disk where it left off:


Type of installation:


More prompts:










File Copying:


Setup must now restart:


Strangely enough, Setup reloads from the hard drive when it shouldn't:










And here is the same error message:


Rob Jansen, are you sure that what you have is the original copy, and not one that was modified to install using the Build 404 Setup files? Here, I'm installing it with no modifications, with virtually the exact same instructions that you provided, and it still doesn't work.

And, by the way, Setup copies every Setup file to the hard disk first anyway, so it can't possibly be anything to do with starting Setup from the hard drive (which, by the way, I also tried but with only the same result) as opposed to starting Setup from the CD-ROM.

Also, louisw3, I'm not saying that it doesn't install from MS-DOS, or Microsoft would obviously have never included WINNT.EXE to begin with. What I'm saying is that it does not support installing without an SCSI CD-ROM drive. Also, your virtual machine probably emulates an SCSI CD-ROM drive (I could be wrong, but that's my guess), which of course, Virtual PC does not.

[louisw3]

You didn't eject the floppy. once the text mode setup is done you eject the floppy!

[louisw3]

Setup must now restart:

re-read this screen. Eject the floppy then it will really boot from the hard disk, and you'll boot into the GUI setup.

[TheCollector1988]

eject the CD, as the copy we have is bootable...

[louisw3]

eject the CD, as the copy we have is bootable...

eject the floppy, once it has reached the stage where its booted from the floppy and copied more stuff around, it'll want to reboot as pictured above. EJECT THE FLOPPY then it boots from the hard disk into the GUI mode.

Instead you are constantly booting off the floppy, and once it has done the fat install, the files aren't there anymore so the disk figures it must be doing a CD install, and since you don't have the right SCSI adapter, it crashes.

see?

eject the floppy.

[TheCollector1988]

eject the CD, as the copy we have is bootable...

eject the floppy, once it has reached the stage where its booted from the floppy and copied more stuff around, it'll want to reboot as pictured above. EJECT THE FLOPPY then it boots from the hard disk into the GUI mode.

Instead you are constantly booting off the floppy, and once it has done the fat install, the files aren't there anymore so the disk figures it must be doing a CD install, and since you don't have the right SCSI adapter, it crashes.

see?

eject the floppy.

yeah, but in the FTP, the copy we have is bootable, so, after the DOS-based installation, you have to eject both floppy and CD.

[louisw3]

eject the CD, as the copy we have is bootable...

Talk about cruel and unusual.. No wonder winpc was constantly botching the install with a bootable NT 3.1 diskette in there.. If only people would use that windows XP 'press any key to boot from cd-rom' boot sector..

[Rob Jansen]

WinPC, everyone excepts you can install this build fine, this evidences that you are something wrong or you don't know how to install these older builds.
Tomorrow if I have time I will install this build again and take screenshots of how it works.

[WinPC]

eject the CD, as the copy we have is bootable...

Talk about cruel and unusual.. No wonder winpc was constantly botching the install with a bootable NT 3.1 diskette in there.. If only people would use that windows XP 'press any key to boot from cd-rom' boot sector..

Well, it turns out that you are infact correct about it being bootable, I really thought it wasn't, due to the age of the release itself.

However, as far as I know, I may have tried copying the Setup files to the hard disk and installing from there, without the CD-ROM inserted. I'm not sure, but I think I might have tried it once, only for it to still not work. I'll later create another virtual machine just to see if it works, where I'll copy the files to the hard disk, remove the CD-ROM, and install from there.

If that works, then great, but if it still doesn't work, then I'll supply a patch to disable the SCSI CD-ROM restriction in Windows NT Setup for this build (and possibly also the final release if the same applies for that build also), since I have just managed to successfully install this build anyway with the patch applied.

EDIT: I just tried it again, this time, without my patch, and without the CD-ROM inserted, and it worked just fine! I doubt most people would have ever thought that booting from a CD-ROM existed this early, but some very surprising things can happen with these older builds.

I guess this topic can just be locked, then, since it turned out that there was just a mistake about it, and I apologize if this created any confusion.

[Rob Jansen]

Just a tip, next time, don't be so convinced that if you can't get it to work, it doesn't work at all, it can work for other people.
So you don't shoot yourself in the foot next time around and don't dismiss the MCB as false claims, I have tested those methods that they work

[TheCollector1988]

actually, the original 438 is not bootable and I think someone just put a NT 3.1 boot floppy into that 438 ISO and released it on the web.

[Rob Jansen]

All of those early NT's are not bootable, Microsoft did this during the Windows 2000 (NT 5.0) beta, even Windows NT 4.0 isn't originally bootable, hence the bootfloppy's included (some OEM's did make it bootable though).

[WinPC]

So basically, our copy was simply modified to support CD-ROM booting (which, as far as I know, didn't exist apart from RISC/MIPS/R4000 and possibly Apple's machines)? If so, then I'm afraid that our copy here is due for a replacement with a more original version.

Also, until our copy here can be replaced, I guess this topic should stand as a notice to all members here to avoid confusion when installing this build, because undoubtedly, this has happened before, and will likely happen in the future, since they would just assume that the .ISO image is not bootable due to the period in which the original CD-ROM was released (April 1993).