Old (DOS) Viruses & Windows 10

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Steff
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Old (DOS) Viruses & Windows 10

Post by Steff »

I remember that some years ago we set up a Windows 10 PC, downloaded everything from "vx heaven exchange virus" and "malware museum" and added our own virus collection as well. (from Parity B to Yankee Doodle)

Im aware 16 bit isnt natively executed and its all more or less useless, but it was a fun experiment and some of these exes at least froze the cmd window, played sounds (which wouldnt stop) or did an "Windows Exception Memory Error sometting".

I wish I would remember all of it, but I plan to do it again at some weekend. :)

Anyone else ?

vbdasc
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Re: Old (DOS) Viruses & Windows 10

Post by vbdasc »

Run them in an emulator like PCem or 86Box for maximum effect.

Steff
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Re: Old (DOS) Viruses & Windows 10

Post by Steff »

Nice, I never heard about PCem. Looks promising. :)

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Re: Old (DOS) Viruses & Windows 10

Post by captainlinux8880 »

vbdasc wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 11:12 am
Run them in an emulator like PCem or 86Box for maximum effect.
PCem = 86Box
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Re: Old (DOS) Viruses & Windows 10

Post by Darkstar »

captainlinux8880 wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 2:11 pm
PCem = 86Box
hahaha, no, most definitely not
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Re: Old (DOS) Viruses & Windows 10

Post by captainlinux8880 »

Darkstar wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 3:07 pm
captainlinux8880 wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 2:11 pm
PCem = 86Box
hahaha, no, most definitely not
Yes, lol. 86Box is based on PCem
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Re: Old (DOS) Viruses & Windows 10

Post by Darkstar »

captainlinux8880 wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 4:09 pm
Darkstar wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 3:07 pm

hahaha, no, most definitely not
Yes, lol. 86Box is based on PCem
lol no, claiming they are the same is like saying the Volkswagen Beetle is the same as the Porsche 356 because they are built on the same chassis *hehe*

Anyway, to add a bit to the discussion, yes, you can run most viruses on 86box, but it's really cool to see that a lot of them also work in DosBox, which is apparently by now so compatible that many viruses don't even notice the difference. They have trouble multiplying (because they want to modify the bootsector of floppydisks for example) but otherwise run fine. They even try to infect the dosbox-interlan tools on Z: :D

Just be careful how you set up DosBox so that you don't trash your Windows installation (the virus won't spread of course, but it could still corrupt random EXE files)
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Re: Old (DOS) Viruses & Windows 10

Post by mrpijey »

captainlinux8880 wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 2:11 pm
PCem = 86Box
captainlinux8880 wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 2:11 pm
Yes, lol. 86Box is based on PCem
With that logic

Windows NT 3.1 = Windows 11.

I mean, Windows 11 is based on Windows NT.

"Based on" != "the same as".
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Re: Old (DOS) Viruses & Windows 10

Post by captainlinux8880 »

mrpijey wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 10:46 pm
captainlinux8880 wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 2:11 pm
PCem = 86Box
captainlinux8880 wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 2:11 pm
Yes, lol. 86Box is based on PCem
With that logic

Windows NT 3.1 = Windows 11.

I mean, Windows 11 is based on Windows NT.

"Based on" != "the same as".
well, 86box is a PCem clone. There the same motherboard is called differently. In addition, Sarah Walker is listed as the author, because her PCem is taken as the basis. Why use a clone when you have the original?
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Re: Old (DOS) Viruses & Windows 10

Post by Darkstar »

captainlinux8880 wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 10:54 pm
well, 86box is a PCem clone. There the same motherboard is called differently. In addition, Sarah Walker is listed as the author, because her PCem is taken as the basis. Why use a clone when you have the original?
Because the clone is a lot better than the original in almost all aspects?
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Re: Old (DOS) Viruses & Windows 10

Post by captainlinux8880 »

Darkstar wrote:
Sat Sep 24, 2022 5:00 pm
captainlinux8880 wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 10:54 pm
well, 86box is a PCem clone. There the same motherboard is called differently. In addition, Sarah Walker is listed as the author, because her PCem is taken as the basis. Why use a clone when you have the original?
Because the clone is a lot better than the original in almost all aspects?
well, in my opinion, 86Box is extremely unstable... Also, 86Box optimization is terrible. Its stability can be compared with PCem 7. 86Box doesn't even have ACPI support...
  • AMD Athlon x4 840:
    Pentium MMX 233 MHz - PCem 13 - 35% speed
    Pentium MMX 233 MHz - 86Box - 21% speed
  • i7 7700K:
    Pentium MMX 233 MHz - PCem 15 - 89% speed
    Pentium MMX 233 MHz - 86Box - 67% speed
PCem is more stable.
The only good thing about the 86Box is NVIDIA GPU emulation
Otherwise - PCem is better.

and yes, we have clearly deviated from the original topic...
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Re: Old (DOS) Viruses & Windows 10

Post by TheCollector1988 »

I see you're really out of date, you need to check the latest binaries of 86box, captainlinux8880.

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Re: Old (DOS) Viruses & Windows 10

Post by Battler »

- captainlinux8880: What ancient version of 86Box are you using? Yes, 86Box does support ACPI. And no, the NVidia GPU emulation is a myth, an over-promise by a now permanently banned former developer, that was never going to materialize anyway.

Also, yes, the performance is slightly worse, because we still use the old recompiler, but the new recompiler is actually less stable - there's some software that, on a emulated Pentium 75, runs at solid 100% on the old recompiler, but goes down to 15% on the new recompiler. The bug has been reported to PCem and has not been fixed to this day. There are also the occasional glitches that occur on the new recompiler but not on the old recompiler.
Its stability can be compared with PCem 7.
PCem 7 does not exist. 0.7 does but that did not even have the recompiler yet and had a lot of bugs long since fixed.
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Re: Old (DOS) Viruses & Windows 10

Post by captainlinux8880 »

Battler wrote:
Sun Sep 25, 2022 11:23 pm
- captainlinux8880: What ancient version of 86Box are you using? Yes, 86Box does support ACPI. And no, the NVidia GPU emulation is a myth, an over-promise by a now permanently banned former developer, that was never going to materialize anyway.

Also, yes, the performance is slightly worse, because we still use the old recompiler, but the new recompiler is actually less stable - there's some software that, on a emulated Pentium 75, runs at solid 100% on the old recompiler, but goes down to 15% on the new recompiler. The bug has been reported to PCem and has not been fixed to this day. There are also the occasional glitches that occur on the new recompiler but not on the old recompiler.
Its stability can be compared with PCem 7.
PCem 7 does not exist. 0.7 does but that did not even have the recompiler yet and had a lot of bugs long since fixed.
2.07 and 2.10
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Re: Old (DOS) Viruses & Windows 10

Post by vbdasc »

PCem is the progenitor of 86Box indeed, but after the retirement of its author the development of the former is in hiatus, unlike the latter. I think that when (if) development of PCem continues, it will have to borrow things from 86Box, ironically.

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Re: Old (DOS) Viruses & Windows 10

Post by Darkstar »

vbdasc wrote:
Mon Sep 26, 2022 10:42 am
I think that when (if) development of PCem continues, it will have to borrow things from 86Box, ironically.
Formally, PCem is still under development (their github has quite recent commits to the code). Code has been transferred to a new maintainer.

But yes, indeed, the transfer of code from 86box to PCem might now actually (finally) happen, after the former author apparently had some sort of personal agenda against anything that came form 86box (or rather OBattler) and vetoed even bugfixes, let alone new features.
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Re: Old (DOS) Viruses & Windows 10

Post by AlphaBeta »

captainlinux8880 wrote:
Mon Sep 26, 2022 5:56 am
Battler wrote:
Sun Sep 25, 2022 11:23 pm
- captainlinux8880: What ancient version of 86Box are you using? Yes, 86Box does support ACPI. And no, the NVidia GPU emulation is a myth, an over-promise by a now permanently banned former developer, that was never going to materialize anyway.

Also, yes, the performance is slightly worse, because we still use the old recompiler, but the new recompiler is actually less stable - there's some software that, on a emulated Pentium 75, runs at solid 100% on the old recompiler, but goes down to 15% on the new recompiler. The bug has been reported to PCem and has not been fixed to this day. There are also the occasional glitches that occur on the new recompiler but not on the old recompiler.


PCem 7 does not exist. 0.7 does but that did not even have the recompiler yet and had a lot of bugs long since fixed.
2.07 and 2.10
Well geez, you're on a 3 year old version at this point. Try a newer build...
AlphaBeta, stop brainwashing me immediately!

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Re: Old (DOS) Viruses & Windows 10

Post by Battler »

- captainlinux8880: As AlphaBeta said, those way outdated version, try a more recent one.

- Darkstar: Unfortunately, it won't happen. If you look at the new maintainer's rules thread, you'll see he's just as obsessed with keeping 86Box out of that place. I'm also still permanently banned and the former developer is still the only administrator, so it looks like the new maintainer doesn't actually run the project - she still does.
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Re: Old (DOS) Viruses & Windows 10

Post by captainlinux8880 »

Battler wrote:
Mon Sep 26, 2022 1:14 pm
- captainlinux8880: As AlphaBeta said, those way outdated version, try a more recent one.

- Darkstar: Unfortunately, it won't happen. If you look at the new maintainer's rules thread, you'll see he's just as obsessed with keeping 86Box out of that place. I'm also still permanently banned and the former developer is still the only administrator, so it looks like the new maintainer doesn't actually run the project - she still does.
yep. I just used 86box in 2019, didn't like it and started using PCem. I will try the new version. Thanks for the advice ;)
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Re: Old (DOS) Viruses & Windows 10

Post by anonymous74 »

using 86box 3.4.1 (may be a few months old, I installed it in May) I get between 40-100% speed emulating a PII Xeon @250MHz running Windows 95. It seems to depend on what it's doing. Overall plenty usable and feels fast, although it does dip to around 50 whenever something is loading. I haven't tried any games though, so performance may suffer there. I definitely prefer it to PCem, as it's got more settings and options to configure and choose from.

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Re: Old (DOS) Viruses & Windows 10

Post by Battler »

- anonymous74: We got significant performance improvements after that, so try the latest version of 86Box.
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Re: Old (DOS) Viruses & Windows 10

Post by Darkstar »

Battler wrote:
Mon Sep 26, 2022 1:14 pm
- Darkstar: Unfortunately, it won't happen. If you look at the new maintainer's rules thread, you'll see he's just as obsessed with keeping 86Box out of that place. I'm also still permanently banned and the former developer is still the only administrator, so it looks like the new maintainer doesn't actually run the project - she still does.
I think the new maintainer is just an alter ego personality under which Sarah now operates *hehe*

But yeah, current 86box 3.8 is pretty fast, although I don't have any need to push it beyond something like a Pentium 66 or thereabouts. Because if you need that kind of speed it's better to just use virtualization IMHO
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Re: Old (DOS) Viruses & Windows 10

Post by anonymous74 »

Battler wrote:
Mon Sep 26, 2022 6:38 pm
- anonymous74: We got significant performance improvements after that, so try the latest version of 86Box.
You've got that right! Just updated, and besides for one time during boot that it dropped to 34% for a second, it hasn't dipped below 70%!

Thank you for the work you do on the emulator! This is a good reminder to update my signature, I haven't used PCem in months.
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