Questions about the "fake Blackcomb"/MSN Explorer demo by Steven Guggenheimer

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TinaMeineKatze
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Questions about the "fake Blackcomb"/MSN Explorer demo by Steven Guggenheimer

Post by TinaMeineKatze »



I guess pretty much everyone interested in Longhorn and Blackcomb has seen this video at one point or another. It has often been falsely labelled als "Blackcomb", even though it is a MSN-windows-integration prototype.

The old WinSuperSite tells us:
[...] it's not Blackcomb [...]. Instead, it's just a prototype version of MSN running on a prototype Windows build, and Guggenheimer's demo was used solely to show how future Windows versions will supply more hooks into the UI so that other products can integrate themselves where appropriate. MSN clearly has plans to do this, though MSN 8--the MSN version due in late 2002--will just take some baby steps that work on today's Windows.
https://web.archive.org/web/20100228055 ... review.asp

Now the questions I have about this which I was not able to find answers to. Maybe someone here knows.
  • Was this really a prototype build of MSN and Windows, meaning, like real code compiled to real .exe-files? Or just some Macromedia-Flash-demos?
  • If so, what was this based on? Was it a modified version of XP? Or an early Longhorn alpha with some GUI modifications?
  • If so, what version of MSN (I guess explorer?) was this based on?
  • Was anything of this leaked?
  • Is there a full video of this that I am not aware of, not cut in a way that it could be interpreted as if it's about something that is not merely an MSN-explorer-like demo?
  • Are there more screenshots or even higher-res videos of this?
I'd really appreciate any answers to those questions. Maybe you guys know something I don't.
Last edited by TinaMeineKatze on Fri Jul 16, 2021 2:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Kimberly5384
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Re: Questions about the "fake Blackcomb"/MSN Explorer demo by Guggenheim

Post by Kimberly5384 »

Well, for one thing, the date of when this conference was made was some time in 2001.
So that means if anyone could find any event or conference that took place around that time period the search would be a little easier.

If it helps, there is an article from an old website regarding this same demo. Just use Google Translate, as the website is in Spanish. Here's the link:

https://www.elmundo.es/navegante/2001/0 ... 32982.html
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TinaMeineKatze
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Re: Questions about the "fake Blackcomb"/MSN Explorer demo by Guggenheim

Post by TinaMeineKatze »

Kimberly5384 wrote:
Fri Jul 16, 2021 3:28 am
Well, for one thing, the date of when this conference was made was some time in 2001.
So that means if anyone could find any event or conference that took place around that time period the search would be a little easier.

If it helps, there is an article from an old website regarding this same demo. Just use Google Translate, as the website is in Spanish. Here's the link:

https://www.elmundo.es/navegante/2001/0 ... 32982.html
Yeah, thanks, but I doubt the reliability of this article, since it says:
Some technical facts about Blackcomb are also becoming known. The only version of which its existence is known with certainty in Internal Build 351 -which means that there are still no alpha or beta versions- although it seems that it has advanced to Internal Build 640, which is the one that can be seen in the video of the presentation ... in terms of micro, who knows what we will have to resort to to make Blackcomb work, although for 2003-4 we estimate that it will be around 6 or 8Ghz., and let's start trembling ... of between 3 and 5 GB of hard disk for the installation ... the voracity of resources of the Microsoft OS however seems that it will remain the same.
I believe it's highly unlikely that they'd go down in build numbers so much. In the leaked XP/Server 2003 source code, I searched for "Blackcomb" and there are several places where it mentions Blackcomb, like

Code: Select all

multimedia/dshow/mfvideo/mswebdvd/msdvd.cpp
7719:                   // look at this for blackcomb maybe for now just do the non-GDI+ function

net/ndis/sys/wrapper.h
921:// move this to ndismini.w for blackcomb

net/netbt/smb/inc/types.h
563:    // We need to ask RDR change their receive handler code in blackcomb.

inetcore/mshtml/src/site/text/lscomplx.cxx
687:                // (TODO) This bug (#20341) needs to be reviewed for blackcomb.

shell/themes/themeui/general.cpp
531:        // Remove in blackcomb.  We need to streamline this process.  That includes verifying that

drivers/storage/classpnp/class.c
3602:                // blackcomb.
and there I find it highly unlikely that they'd really do a "fresh start" with build numbers below 2600/3790. Therefore, I cannot reckon this source as true.
The only interesting things are the screenshots and the dates. I'm not sure that the screenshots are either real or from that "Blackcomb"-video I posted earlier.
There is a Video posted on that site, but it's not available anymore, and not in the wayback machine either sadly. The only thing I can personally take from this site is that there were at least rumors of Blackcomb in about 2001.

Blackcomb build 351 was also mentioned here btw.: http://web.archive.org/web/200102020630 ... eowin.net/ and here: https://ascii.jp/elem/000/000/320/320545/3/ , but that doesn't tell us anything about whether it's real or what's the specific source for this claim, so I'll doubt it.

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Re: Questions about the "fake Blackcomb"/MSN Explorer demo by Steven Guggenheimer

Post by lubuntut »

I think Blackcomb very similar to Longhorn M3 and some M3 build's has lower version number than 3790. As for video and screenshots, like very early longhorn build concept.

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Re: Questions about the "fake Blackcomb"/MSN Explorer demo by Steven Guggenheimer

Post by TinaMeineKatze »

lubuntut wrote:
Fri Jul 16, 2021 7:30 pm
I think Blackcomb very similar to Longhorn M3 and some M3 build's has lower version number than 3790. As for video and screenshots, like very early longhorn build concept.
Sure, but never lower than their current counterpart on .net/Server-2003-beta. That would not make any sense (or at least never much lower, like, 2190 or something).

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Re: Questions about the "fake Blackcomb"/MSN Explorer demo by Steven Guggenheimer

Post by Blizzardo1 »

I remember having the .NET road ahead theme from I think Windowblinds, which applied this wacky start menu and overhead bar with shortcuts. It looked cool and thought this would be the new way Microsoft would implement Windows, say Vista perhaps. I'd have to find the image somewhere online and show it. If anyone beats me to the punch, thanks.

TinaMeineKatze
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Re: Questions about the "fake Blackcomb"/MSN Explorer demo by Steven Guggenheimer

Post by TinaMeineKatze »

Blizzardo1 wrote:
Sun Jul 18, 2021 7:57 pm
I remember having the .NET road ahead theme from I think Windowblinds, which applied this wacky start menu and overhead bar with shortcuts. It looked cool and thought this would be the new way Microsoft would implement Windows, say Vista perhaps. I'd have to find the image somewhere online and show it. If anyone beats me to the punch, thanks.
Image

I'd guess you mean that one? Source: https://www.stardock.com/products/deskt ... px2002.htm

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Re: Questions about the "fake Blackcomb"/MSN Explorer demo by Steven Guggenheimer

Post by Melcher »

I had some info about this demo up on longhorn.ms at some time which might be of interest:

The famous internal ‘Blackcomb demo’ took place in July 2001. This demo was part of a Business Plan Review (BPR) meeting. Here, Steven Guggenheimer demoed what the next version of Windows might look like. This mock-up was a joint effort of MSN and the Windows division, showing how MSN could integrate its services into Windows.

https://web.archive.org/web/20170423214 ... kcomb-demo
https://web.archive.org/web/20160603144 ... login.jpeg
https://web.archive.org/web/20160603150 ... sktop.jpeg

TinaMeineKatze
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Re: Questions about the "fake Blackcomb"/MSN Explorer demo by Steven Guggenheimer

Post by TinaMeineKatze »

Melcher wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:07 pm
I had some info about this demo up on longhorn.ms at some time which might be of interest:

The famous internal ‘Blackcomb demo’ took place in July 2001. This demo was part of a Business Plan Review (BPR) meeting. Here, Steven Guggenheimer demoed what the next version of Windows might look like. This mock-up was a joint effort of MSN and the Windows division, showing how MSN could integrate its services into Windows.

https://web.archive.org/web/20170423214 ... kcomb-demo
https://web.archive.org/web/20160603144 ... login.jpeg
https://web.archive.org/web/20160603150 ... sktop.jpeg
This is great, thank you very much. May I ask you what the source for these higher-res screenshots was, if you still remember?

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Re: Questions about the "fake Blackcomb"/MSN Explorer demo by Steven Guggenheimer

Post by HedgehogWin7 »

Can anyone recreate the demo in an exe file?
Starting Windows 7 ;)

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Re: Questions about the "fake Blackcomb"/MSN Explorer demo by Steven Guggenheimer

Post by Kimberly5384 »

Iirc there were even higher-res screenshots of the login screen and desktop that were shared in a discord server a long time ago. Someone from BetaWiki might have them.
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Re: Questions about the "fake Blackcomb"/MSN Explorer demo by Steven Guggenheimer

Post by TinaMeineKatze »

Kimberly5384 wrote:
Mon Jul 26, 2021 4:57 pm
Iirc there were even higher-res screenshots of the login screen and desktop that were shared in a discord server a long time ago. Someone from BetaWiki might have them.
If this is true, I'd be very interested in these. Always loved the idea of being able to read the stuff of that demo more clearly.

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