Windows 10 on Windows RT tablets?
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LeonardoIannelliRETRIEVES
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Windows 10 on Windows RT tablets?
I have an old Microsoft Surface 2 tablet from around 2014. The tablet has an ARM-based CPU, and therefore runs Windows RT, the sibling of Windows 8 that prevents Win32 applications from being executed.
One of Microsoft’s current Surface tablet models is the Surface Pro X. It has a Microsoft-designed ARM CPU, yet it can still run 32-bit Win32 apps via emulation. The Surface Pro X runs Windows 10, so I think that the basis for running it on Surface RTs and Surface 2s is there.
I’d like it if the version of Windows 10 that runs on the Surface Pro X could be modified to run on the Surface RT, Surface 2, and other Windows RT tablets. All it would probably require is the correct driver support, which should be able to be ported over from Windows RT 8.1, considering that Windows 10 is based on Windows 8.1, and Windows 8.1 and its RT counterpart share the same code base. The same could go for other tablets that run Windows RT.
This would be even cooler if you could upgrade from Windows RT to Windows 10 without doing a clean install, as if you were installing a Windows 10 feature update.
Anyway, I have an idea for a utility that has this purpose and how it would work. Basically, it would take a Surface Pro X version of Windows 10 (from recovery media created for one, unless you’re a pirate), and replace the Surface Pro X drivers with those of a Windows RT tablet of your choosing.
If you have any comments on this idea or think of a way it could be done, I would love to hear about it, so be sure to reply to this thread in that case.
One of Microsoft’s current Surface tablet models is the Surface Pro X. It has a Microsoft-designed ARM CPU, yet it can still run 32-bit Win32 apps via emulation. The Surface Pro X runs Windows 10, so I think that the basis for running it on Surface RTs and Surface 2s is there.
I’d like it if the version of Windows 10 that runs on the Surface Pro X could be modified to run on the Surface RT, Surface 2, and other Windows RT tablets. All it would probably require is the correct driver support, which should be able to be ported over from Windows RT 8.1, considering that Windows 10 is based on Windows 8.1, and Windows 8.1 and its RT counterpart share the same code base. The same could go for other tablets that run Windows RT.
This would be even cooler if you could upgrade from Windows RT to Windows 10 without doing a clean install, as if you were installing a Windows 10 feature update.
Anyway, I have an idea for a utility that has this purpose and how it would work. Basically, it would take a Surface Pro X version of Windows 10 (from recovery media created for one, unless you’re a pirate), and replace the Surface Pro X drivers with those of a Windows RT tablet of your choosing.
If you have any comments on this idea or think of a way it could be done, I would love to hear about it, so be sure to reply to this thread in that case.
~Leonardo I.
[insert Uncle Sam here]
I want you to leak Windows builds!
I know they said no username changes, but I doxxed myself with my username back when I was stupid. Don't do that, kids. Please let me change my username, it's for my own good. -Leo
Windows 8 Beta
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[insert Uncle Sam here]
I want you to leak Windows builds!
I know they said no username changes, but I doxxed myself with my username back when I was stupid. Don't do that, kids. Please let me change my username, it's for my own good. -Leo
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- johndoe123
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Re: Windows 10 on Windows RT tablets?
No, it won't work. The Surface Pro X uses arm64 Windows and the Surface RT uses arm32 Windows. If you want to run win32 apps, you can try jailbreaking.
PC: 2020 MacBook Pro
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CPU: M1
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BetaNewbie
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Re: Windows 10 on Windows RT tablets?
There is Windows 10 build 15035 compiled for ARM32 architecture, with a Enterprise SKU.
It works on Surface RT, and usable in some ways. You might want to have a try, check the BetaWiki page for some notes on drivers.
It works on Surface RT, and usable in some ways. You might want to have a try, check the BetaWiki page for some notes on drivers.
- johndoe123
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Re: Windows 10 on Windows RT tablets?
On a side note, has anyone tried installing 15035 on a Surface RT yet?
PC: 2020 MacBook Pro
CPU: M1
RAM: 16GB DDR4
Storage: 512GB
CPU: M1
RAM: 16GB DDR4
Storage: 512GB
Re: Windows 10 on Windows RT tablets?
I never got the chance to run it on my Surface RT, sadly it had an unfortunate encounter with a concrete floor. I do however run it on my Surface 2 still and it's quite reasonable all things considered. On the Surface 2 with Windows 10 15035 there are no driver issues and battery life is at least equal to what it was under Windows RT 8.1, from what I have seen on various forum threads the same is true on the Surface RT.johndoe123 wrote:On a side note, has anyone tried installing 15035 on a Surface RT yet?
When first installed the OS is pretty bare with limited preinstalled apps - see Windows 10 build 15035 at BetaWiki. There are a couple of application packages floating around to flesh it out and make it a more complete experience - see Windows 10 on ARM for Surface RT at XDA-Developers. Once some of the missing apps that normally come with Windows 10 are there and Office 2013 RT is installed its starts to feel right.
There are some other bugs here and there, I think event viewer will cause a BSOD but I can't remember what the error is.
Windows Update works to update Office 2013 RT and it looks like it also updates Windows Defender definitions, Defender seems to work and does scans in the background but the UI is broken. Obviously no actual updates for Windows will be available.
There is no x86 emulation in the build but Win86emu does seem to work so you can get some very limited support via that route and also most of the old stuff that was recompiled for Windows RT 8.1 will run just fine too.
tl;dr... 3.6 out of 5 - not great, not terrible.
Quick edit with some pics below, the just for fun winfile.exe is native and was ported by black_blob from XDA-Developers.
Last edited by jwa4 on Fri May 29, 2020 4:07 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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LeonardoIannelliRETRIEVES
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Re: Windows 10 on Windows RT tablets?
So, if there are 64-bit Windows RT tablets out there (I have an inkling there might be), it should be pretty easy to port the Surface Pro X version of Windows 10 over to them.johndoe123 wrote:No, it won't work. The Surface Pro X uses arm64 Windows and the Surface RT uses arm32 Windows. If you want to run win32 apps, you can try jailbreaking.
So, theoretically, you could take components from that (like the kernel) and add them to later versions of Windows 10 to make them ARM32-capable? It would probably require a rewrite of what got changed between the versions, but it would be cool for it to at least partially work or even be able to be updated to later feature updates (as long as you make some required modifications).BetaNewbie wrote:There is Windows 10 build 15035 compiled for ARM32 architecture, with a Enterprise SKU.
It works on Surface RT, and usable in some ways. You might want to have a try, check the BetaWiki page for some notes on drivers.
~Leonardo I.
[insert Uncle Sam here]
I want you to leak Windows builds!
I know they said no username changes, but I doxxed myself with my username back when I was stupid. Don't do that, kids. Please let me change my username, it's for my own good. -Leo
Windows 8 Beta
For testing purposes only. Build 8176.fbl_core2_sid_dev120104-2026.6d8ec67b25e74be5
[insert Uncle Sam here]
I want you to leak Windows builds!
I know they said no username changes, but I doxxed myself with my username back when I was stupid. Don't do that, kids. Please let me change my username, it's for my own good. -Leo
Windows 8 Beta
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Re: Windows 10 on Windows RT tablets?
No device that shipped with Windows RT ever had an ARMv8 processor.LeonardoIannelliRETRIEVES wrote:So, if there are 64-bit Windows RT tablets out there (I have an inkling there might be), it should be pretty easy to port the Surface Pro X version of Windows 10 over to them.johndoe123 wrote:No, it won't work. The Surface Pro X uses arm64 Windows and the Surface RT uses arm32 Windows. If you want to run win32 apps, you can try jailbreaking.
No chance.LeonardoIannelliRETRIEVES wrote:So, theoretically, you could take components from that (like the kernel) and add them to later versions of Windows 10 to make them ARM32-capable? It would probably require a rewrite of what got changed between the versions, but it would be cool for it to at least partially work or even be able to be updated to later feature updates (as long as you make some required modifications).BetaNewbie wrote:There is Windows 10 build 15035 compiled for ARM32 architecture, with a Enterprise SKU.
It works on Surface RT, and usable in some ways. You might want to have a try, check the BetaWiki page for some notes on drivers.
I know Microsoft still build Windows PE for ARMv7 because its available for download to anyone who wants it but I don't know if they still make the full desktop version for ARMv7 and even if they did they won't acknowledge it or release it. If newer desktop versions do exist for ARMv7 they might leak one day but by the time they did they will likely be just as old as 15035 is now. It's curious why a desktop version of Windows 10 15035 for ARMv7 even exists, why bother if the platform was a dead end? Surface RT / Surface 2 hardware is a dead end, the remaining useable life of a 2012 / 2013 device is extremely limited I'm afraid. I sort of expected Linux or an Android port at some point but if its not happened by now it never will.
If you want to play with Windows PE for ARMv7 you can grab it from Microsoft - see Download WinPE (Windows PE)
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LeonardoIannelliRETRIEVES
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Re: Windows 10 on Windows RT tablets?
If that’s the case, maybe it could be the basis for an updated Windows 10 ARM32 version? Just take the WinPE and add its kernel and what not into Windows 10 build 15035.jwa4 wrote:I know Microsoft still build Windows PE for ARMv7 because its available for download to anyone who wants it but I don't know if they still make the full desktop version for ARMv7 and even if they did they won't acknowledge it or release it.
If you want to get extra risky, maybe the ARMv7 processor in a Windows RT tablet could be swapped out with an ARMv8 one to make it compatible with the latest Windows 10 versions. I’ve heard of people swapping out the CPUs in old PowerPC Macs, so it could be possible as long as the SoC isn’t impossible to remove from the motherboard and there’s enough driver support for it to actually be usable.
~Leonardo I.
[insert Uncle Sam here]
I want you to leak Windows builds!
I know they said no username changes, but I doxxed myself with my username back when I was stupid. Don't do that, kids. Please let me change my username, it's for my own good. -Leo
Windows 8 Beta
For testing purposes only. Build 8176.fbl_core2_sid_dev120104-2026.6d8ec67b25e74be5
[insert Uncle Sam here]
I want you to leak Windows builds!
I know they said no username changes, but I doxxed myself with my username back when I was stupid. Don't do that, kids. Please let me change my username, it's for my own good. -Leo
Windows 8 Beta
For testing purposes only. Build 8176.fbl_core2_sid_dev120104-2026.6d8ec67b25e74be5
Re: Windows 10 on Windows RT tablets?
Maybe but as far as I know Windows PE does not include the things that would make such an upgrade useful like Edge for example. There would still be very limited ARMv7 app support and even if Microsoft dropped a fully up to date Windows 10 for ARMv7 today it would not be able to run x86 apps.LeonardoIannelliRETRIEVES wrote:If that’s the case, maybe it could be the basis for an updated Windows 10 ARM32 version? Just take the WinPE and add its kernel and what not into an updated version of Windows 10 build 15035.jwa4 wrote:I know Microsoft still build Windows PE for ARMv7 because its available for download to anyone who wants it but I don't know if they still make the full desktop version for ARMv7 and even if they did they won't acknowledge it or release it.
That one is super impossible I'm afraid. There is a higher chance of winning the lottery every day of the year than making that happen.LeonardoIannelliRETRIEVES wrote:If you want to get extra risky, maybe the ARMv7 processor in a Windows RT tablet could be swapped out with an ARMv8 one to make it compatible with the latest Windows 10 versions. I’ve heard of people swapping out the CPUs in old PowerPC Macs, so it could be possible as long as the SoC isn’t permanently attached to the motherboard and there’s enough driver support for it to actually be usable.
- yourepicfailure
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Re: Windows 10 on Windows RT tablets?
The SOC design is what the board is based off of. An ARMv8 SOC would be completely different, not to mention the BGA layout and pin purposes.LeonardoIannelliRETRIEVES wrote:If you want to get extra risky, maybe the ARMv7 processor in a Windows RT tablet could be swapped out with an ARMv8 one to make it compatible with the latest Windows 10 versions. I’ve heard of people swapping out the CPUs in old PowerPC Macs, so it could be possible as long as the SoC isn’t impossible to remove from the motherboard and there’s enough driver support for it to actually be usable.
"C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the foot; C++ makes it harder, but when you do it blows your whole leg off"
You will never tear me from the grasp of the Pentium M!
Re: Windows 10 on Windows RT tablets?
Yep.yourepicfailure wrote:The SOC design is what the board is based off of. An ARMv8 SOC would be completely different, not to mention the BGA layout and pin purposes.
Its worth keeping on eye on the FTP, if they exist a newer ARMv7 build could leak in theory but I wouldn't count on it. As sad as it is to see good kit go to waste it looks like Windows 10 15035 is about as useful as Surface RT/2 is ever going to get.... compared to RT 8.1 anyway.
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exploradorgt
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Re: Windows 10 on Windows RT tablets?
This is the first useful thread/info I find on the web regarding Windows10 on the Surface RT/RT2, and I've been searching a lot. For some reason, while this is quite exciting, there are only short mentions of this on the web and a lot of broken threads with missing information. This thread while short, makes sense.
@jwa4, thanks for the detailed info. I recently got a Surface RT and been quite interested on the Windows10 topic. I'm quite surprised on the lack of comments about this even as lots of people say they installed it, your post comes as great fresh air on the topic. I'm still not sure on upgrading to W10, I would probably try it if I get my hands on a second RT.
While I produce a lot of stuff needing a juicy CPU and lots of apps that won't ever run on the RT, I find this device amazing, specially the battery life while using it for MS Office work. Yes I would love to get Windows10 on this machine but the info on the web is not exactly the best. I can use my RT perfectly, I would be more than happy getting a better internet experience, as Internet Explorer 11 falls short. While running more stuff on the RT would be great, I know it's limitations (hardware and software) and I don't expect to run 3DS Max or Video editing apps, I'm fine as it is.
@LeonardoIannelliRETRIEVES, your idea sounds great and enthusiastic, however what we can do on X86 machines replacing cpus, or changing crucial bits of the OS are quite different on the ARM world, as this is a new area with lots of limitations, in the sense that ARM is a system on a chip, having lots of components together, not something like on x86 where we have some independent components. The emulation layer on Windows Arm 64 is quite a different beast, pretty sure tied to hardware. I don't know why MS abandoned Windows ARM 32, but we are lucky this thing exist and got leaked.
@jwa4, thanks for the detailed info. I recently got a Surface RT and been quite interested on the Windows10 topic. I'm quite surprised on the lack of comments about this even as lots of people say they installed it, your post comes as great fresh air on the topic. I'm still not sure on upgrading to W10, I would probably try it if I get my hands on a second RT.
While I produce a lot of stuff needing a juicy CPU and lots of apps that won't ever run on the RT, I find this device amazing, specially the battery life while using it for MS Office work. Yes I would love to get Windows10 on this machine but the info on the web is not exactly the best. I can use my RT perfectly, I would be more than happy getting a better internet experience, as Internet Explorer 11 falls short. While running more stuff on the RT would be great, I know it's limitations (hardware and software) and I don't expect to run 3DS Max or Video editing apps, I'm fine as it is.
@LeonardoIannelliRETRIEVES, your idea sounds great and enthusiastic, however what we can do on X86 machines replacing cpus, or changing crucial bits of the OS are quite different on the ARM world, as this is a new area with lots of limitations, in the sense that ARM is a system on a chip, having lots of components together, not something like on x86 where we have some independent components. The emulation layer on Windows Arm 64 is quite a different beast, pretty sure tied to hardware. I don't know why MS abandoned Windows ARM 32, but we are lucky this thing exist and got leaked.
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exploradorgt
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Re: Windows 10 on Windows RT tablets?
@jwa4,
For what I know, what is making this a difficult task is mostly the hardware-lock, because otherwise, Linux guys have been able to run it on an amazing variety of devices.
Who knows, Alexenferman has a website with information about this, he (or they) finally got the RT to boot into the Linux Kernel, there is still work in progress to make the full hardware accesible. There is also a tutorial on his website to install W10 on the RT, and also how to get back to W8. Hopefully, perhaps one day we'll see some Linux on the RT."I sort of expected Linux or an Android port at some point but if its not happened by now it never will."
For what I know, what is making this a difficult task is mostly the hardware-lock, because otherwise, Linux guys have been able to run it on an amazing variety of devices.
Re: Windows 10 on Windows RT tablets?
It's good to be wrong With Yahallo from Imbushuo and the work of the guys from the Open-SurfaceRT there is at least a chance now.exploradorgt wrote: ↑Tue Dec 08, 2020 6:48 pmHopefully, perhaps one day we'll see some Linux on the RT.
For what I know, what is making this a difficult task is mostly the hardware-lock, because otherwise, Linux guys have been able to run it on an amazing variety of devices.
Edge in 15035 is for the most part better than the latest IE11 but its still three years behind and sadly it is becoming less useful as time goes on.exploradorgt wrote: ↑Tue Dec 08, 2020 6:41 pm
I can use my RT perfectly, I would be more than happy getting a better internet experience, as Internet Explorer 11 falls short.
With Yahallo from Imbushuo this is now less long winded, once properly prepared you can just use the Windows 10 installer from USB.exploradorgt wrote: ↑Tue Dec 08, 2020 6:48 pmThere is also a tutorial on his website to install W10 on the RT, and also how to get back to W8.
- EverythingeeB
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Re: Windows 10 on Windows RT tablets?
I thought one time I saw someone make a video where they installed Windows 10 IoT on their Surface RT. Perhaps it is possible with a 32 bit version of Windows 10 for ARM. If someone got it working that would be interesting to see as then these old devices could have a breath of fresh air - even a tiny one.
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exploradorgt
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Re: Windows 10 on Windows RT tablets?
There is a video on that, Windows 10 IoTEverythingeeB wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 8:41 amI thought one time I saw someone make a video where they installed Windows 10 IoT on their Surface RT. Perhaps it is possible with a 32 bit version of Windows 10 for ARM. If someone got it working that would be interesting to see as then these old devices could have a breath of fresh air - even a tiny one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivwuxBR ... casDeruyck
And another on Windows 10 for ARM 32
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzFqbBD ... ElektroHax
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icewolf0421
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Re: Windows 10 on Windows RT tablets?
I have a surface rt (1) on Windows 10 build 15035. Win86emu on step 2 I get "C:\x86node\Install\x86node.reg The parameter is incorrect"
Did anyone also see this issue?
Could also stem from not being from the original mirror as the link is broken.
So if anyone knows where I can pull a copy of the original/working files it would be appreciated.
Instructions from readme.txt:
1. Extract all files to c:\ (it will create a x86node folder)
2. Execute c:\x86node\install\x86node.reg
3. Run c:\x86node\windows\postinstall.exe
4. For Windows 8.1, copy c:\x86node\Install\Windows 8.1\x86node\Windows\SystemNT\ntdll.nt.dll to c:\x86node\Windows\SystemNT\ntdll.nt.dll and override the current dll.
After this, you can run c:\x86node\windows\launcher.exe and choose a x86 exe to run (e.g. c:\x86node\windows\regedit.86.exe)
Source of files:https://sourceforge.net/projects/win86e ... /Binaries/
Re: Windows 10 on Windows RT tablets?
How did you install 15035? User Account Control is broken on 15035 and it sounds like your install doesn't have UAC disabled.icewolf0421 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 19, 2022 8:45 pmI have a surface rt (1) on Windows 10 build 15035. Win86emu on step 2 I get "C:\x86node\Install\x86node.reg The parameter is incorrect"
Did anyone also see this issue?
Could also stem from not being from the original mirror as the link is broken.
So if anyone knows where I can pull a copy of the original/working files it would be appreciated.
Instructions from readme.txt:
1. Extract all files to c:\ (it will create a x86node folder)
2. Execute c:\x86node\install\x86node.reg
3. Run c:\x86node\windows\postinstall.exe
4. For Windows 8.1, copy c:\x86node\Install\Windows 8.1\x86node\Windows\SystemNT\ntdll.nt.dll to c:\x86node\Windows\SystemNT\ntdll.nt.dll and override the current dll.
After this, you can run c:\x86node\windows\launcher.exe and choose a x86 exe to run (e.g. c:\x86node\windows\regedit.86.exe)
Source of files:https://sourceforge.net/projects/win86e ... /Binaries/