Post subject: Windows Premiere - November 1985 disk recovery Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 7:53 am
Joined Mon Jan 12, 2015 1:33 pm
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I acquired the Windows Premiere disks from TrueYanksFan a few months ago, but due to delivery delays and some issues with my floppy drive, I've been unable to read the disks before now. I'm yet to get 100% clean Kroflux dumps but I have been able to read the directory sectors and folder sectors.
In short:
All disks have a readable directory sector
The directory sectors retain most of the metadata for the deleted files
Disks 1-3 contain files produced by DOS BACKUP utility in 1994
The backup spans all of disk 1 (excluding the PIF folder, was this a bug/feature of BACKUP, that didn't remove directories?), all of disk 2, and a small part of disk 3
The backup, once restored (using DOS 6.22) contains files in Computrac/Metastock format
Disk 1 had a file added in 1986, which I suspect was an attempt to add a driver for a WYSE WY-700 video card.
While previously reported as having a maximum file date of October 1985, there are directory entries that show the maximum date to be November 1985
As such:
Disk 1 is partially overwritten, but retains a complete and unchanged PIF folder (85KB size on disk), and the directory list is readable
Disk 2 is overwritten, but the directory list is readable
Disk 3 is partially overwritten (30K size on disk), with the remainder seemingly recoverable, and the directory list is readable
Disk 4 is complete and unchanged
So, when TrueYanksFan reported that only 25% of the set was readable, in reality, just over 50% of the files seem to be recoverable, and almost 100% of the folder structure, file names and dates can bet determined.
It seems that the Alias copy was released in July 1985, and this copy is definitely a November 1985 copy, produced just prior to the COMEX 85 launch. Could it be that this copy of Premiere was prepared before the launch so that it would be available in time for the COMDEX launch party?
I wrote a quick and dirty program to read the directory entries. The FAT12 format doesn't retain the original first-letter of a file name, so I've mapped the names by hand. I'm yet to determine the names of the files that were overwritten in the directory sector.
Here's a dump of the directory entries.
Code:
File: WindowsPremiere1of4.img Name Restored Name Attrib YYYY-MM-DD HH:MM:SS Cluster Size -------------- ------------- ------ ------------------- ------- ------- PIF D 1985-10-28 13:47:48 2 0 . D 1985-10-28 13:47:48 2 0 .. D 1985-10-28 13:47:48 0 0 PIFEDIT.EXE A 1985-10-23 13:13:06 245 28544 123.PIF A 1985-10-26 12:57:10 273 369 123-2.PIF A 1985-10-26 12:58:54 274 369 BASCOM.PIF A 1985-09-18 11:04:44 275 369 BASIC.PIF A 1985-10-14 18:02:56 276 369 BASICA.PIF A 1985-10-14 18:03:34 277 369 CHART.PIF A 1985-09-18 11:09:52 278 369 CLOUT.PIF A 1985-06-26 14:39:34 279 369 DBASE.PIF A 1985-09-18 11:16:08 280 369 DBASE2.PIF A 1985-09-18 11:16:38 281 369 DBASE3.PIF A 1985-09-18 11:17:08 282 369 DW2PG.PIF A 1985-09-18 11:18:24 283 369 DW3PG.PIF A 1985-09-18 11:19:12 284 369 FILE.PIF A 1985-09-18 11:28:06 285 369 FW.PIF A 1985-09-18 11:28:40 286 369 FWC.PIF A 1985-09-18 11:29:16 287 369 FWT.PIF A 1985-09-18 11:30:54 288 369 GRAPH.PIF A 1985-09-18 11:31:56 289 369 HTPM.PIF A 1980-01-03 16:23:04 290 369 IBMFILE.PIF A 1985-09-18 11:44:08 291 369 IBMGRAPH.PIF A 1985-09-18 11:45:32 292 369 IBMREPRT.PIF A 1980-01-03 15:12:22 293 369 IBMWRITE.PIF A 1980-01-03 15:23:52 294 369 LOTUS.PIF A 1985-10-26 12:58:12 295 369 LOTUS2.PIF A 1985-10-26 13:17:36 296 369 MP.PIF A 1985-09-18 11:35:38 297 369 MP40.PIF A 1985-09-18 11:36:56 298 369 MP80.PIF A 1985-09-18 11:37:42 299 369 MSACCESS.PIF A 1980-01-04 16:09:06 300 369 PE.PIF A 1985-06-28 13:08:24 301 369 PC-DRAW.PIF A 1985-09-24 10:39:20 303 369 PFSACCES.PIF A 1980-01-03 15:36:54 304 369 PLAN.PIF A 1985-09-18 11:49:46 305 369 PROEDIT.PIF A 1985-09-18 11:50:40 306 369 PROJ.PIF A 1985-09-18 11:51:22 307 369 PROJM.PIF A 1985-09-18 11:52:54 308 369 RB5000.PIF A 1985-09-18 12:02:10 309 369 RBASE.PIF A 1985-09-18 12:02:48 310 369 REPORT.PIF A 1985-09-18 12:03:22 311 369 RG.PIF A 1985-09-18 12:04:28 312 369 SC3.PIF A 1985-09-18 12:05:06 313 369 SCOM.PIF A 1985-09-18 12:06:44 314 369 SCOMII.PIF A 1985-09-18 12:06:22 315 369 SPELL.PIF A 1985-09-19 11:53:26 316 369 SYMPHACC.PIF A 1985-08-27 06:37:10 317 369 SYMPHONY.PIF A 1985-09-18 12:13:06 318 369 TURBO.PIF A 1985-09-18 12:13:40 319 369 TURBOBCD.PIF A 1985-09-18 12:15:50 320 369 TURBO-87.PIF A 1985-09-18 12:15:10 321 369 VX.PIF A 1980-01-03 15:45:34 322 369 WORD.PIF A 1985-09-19 11:55:18 323 369 WP.PIF A 1985-09-18 12:18:42 324 369 WRDPERF.PIF A 1985-08-06 16:48:38 325 369 WRITE.PIF A 1985-09-18 12:19:42 326 369 WS.PIF A 1985-09-18 12:20:34 327 369 WS2000.PIF A 1985-09-18 12:21:10 328 369 XTALK.PIF A 1985-09-18 12:21:42 329 369 XYWRITE.PIF A 1980-01-03 13:31:14 330 369 BACKUP.001 8A 1994-03-19 22:41:18 0 0 //The disk label BACKUP.001 RA 1994-03-19 22:41:18 4 269312 //Original file detail is lost CONTROL.001 RA 1994-03-19 22:41:16 3 3609 //Original file detail is lost ?ERNEL.EXE KERNEL.EXE A 1985-10-24 15:36:04 37 33279 ?YSTEM.DRV SYSTEM.DRV A 1985-10-23 14:44:44 70 2594 ?EYBUS.DRV KEYBUS.DRV A 1985-10-23 14:45:58 73 3335 ?OMOUSE.DRV NOMOUSE.DRV A 1985-10-23 14:51:48 77 1592 ?OUSE.DRV MOUSE.DRV A 1985-10-23 14:49:46 79 3239 ?SMOUSE1.DRV MSMOUSE1.DRV A 1985-10-23 14:59:04 83 1966 ?SMOUSE2.DRV MSMOUSE2.DRV A 1985-10-23 14:59:20 85 1966 ?MOUSE.DRV LMOUSE.DRV A 1985-10-23 15:53:20 87 2484 ?PC.DRV LPC.DRV A 1985-10-26 14:55:42 90 2422 ?OYMOUSE.DRV JOYMOUSE.DRV A 1985-10-23 15:46:14 93 2114 ?GA.DRV CGA.DRV A 1985-10-24 13:22:18 96 13008 ?ERCULES.DRV HERCULES.DRV A 1985-10-24 13:22:40 109 15776 ?GAMONO.DRV EGAMONO.DRV A 1985-10-24 13:21:56 125 13952 ?GAHIBW.DRV EGAHIBW.DRV A 1985-10-24 13:21:32 139 13952 ?GALORES.DRV EGALORES.DRV A 1985-10-24 13:23:10 153 15648 ?GAHIRES.DRV EGAHIRES.DRV A 1985-10-24 13:23:38 169 17536 ?OUND.DRV SOUND.DRV A 1985-10-23 15:04:40 187 5853 ?OMM.DRV COMM.DRV A 1985-10-27 19:52:36 193 4860 ?OFONTS.FON LOFONTS.FON A 1985-10-25 12:27:58 198 5552 ?IFONTS.FON HIFONTS.FON A 1985-10-25 12:28:14 204 7472 ?AMDRIVE.SYS RAMDRIVE.SYS A 1985-07-12 16:42:46 212 6459 ?MM.PC EMM.PC A 1985-07-30 17:15:28 219 12898 ?MM.AT EMM.AT A 1985-07-30 17:33:12 232 12874 ?RITE.DAT WRITE.DAT A 1985-10-28 13:55:50 331 43 ?Y700.DRV WY700.DRV A 1986-03-10 14:12:10 332 15776 //Appears to have been added in 1986
Code:
File: WindowsPremiere2of4.img Name Restored Name Attrib YYYY-MM-DD HH:MM:SS Cluster Size -------------- ------------- ------ ------------------- ------- ------- BACKUP.002 8A 1994-03-19 22:43:16 0 0 //The disk label BACKUP.002 RA 1994-03-19 22:43:14 3 358400 //Original file detail is lost CONTROL.002 RA 1994-03-19 22:43:12 2 3849 //Original file detail is lost ?SER.EXE USER.EXE A 1985-11-14 13:00:18 96 122400 ?SDOSD.EXE MSDOSD.EXE A 1985-10-23 12:50:30 216 5934 ?SDOS.EXE MSDOS.EXE A 1985-11-14 13:14:10 222 41904 ?GA.GRB CGA.GRB A 1985-11-06 13:03:44 263 1350 ?GALORES.GRB EGALORES.GRB A 1985-11-06 13:04:10 265 1213 ?GAHIRES.GRB EGAHIRES.GRB A 1985-07-24 13:55:06 267 15 ?GAHIBW.GRB EGAHIBW.GRB A 1985-07-24 13:55:06 268 15 ?GAMONO.GRB EGAMONO.GRB A 1985-11-06 13:04:24 269 1061 ?ERCULES.GRB HERCULES.GRB A 1985-11-06 13:03:56 271 1250 ?IN.CNF WIN.CNF A 1985-11-12 13:09:10 273 1936 ?GALORES.LGO EGALORES.LGO A 1985-06-27 12:29:22 275 9 ?GAHIRES.LGO EGAHIRES.LGO A 1985-06-27 12:29:22 276 9 ?GAHIBW.LGO EGAHIBW.LGO A 1985-06-27 12:29:22 277 9 ?GAMONO.LGO EGAMONO.LGO A 1985-11-07 17:23:00 278 2930 ?ERCULES.LGO HERCULES.LGO A 1985-11-07 17:22:28 281 3054 ?GA.LGO CGA.LGO A 1985-11-07 17:21:48 284 2931 ?IN.INI WIN.INI A 1985-11-12 17:23:48 287 2065 ?INOLDAP.MOD WINOLDAP.MOD A 1985-11-11 12:08:02 290 19392 ?POOLER.EXE SPOOLER.EXE A 1985-11-12 10:49:14 309 13216
Code:
File: WindowsPremiere3of4.img Name Restored Name Attrib YYYY-MM-DD HH:MM:SS Cluster Size -------------- ------------- ------ ------------------- ------- ------- BACKUP.003 8A 1994-03-19 22:44:30 0 0 //The disk label BACKUP.003 RA 1994-03-19 22:44:28 3 29079 //Original file detail is lost CONTROL.003 RA 1994-03-19 22:44:30 2 617 //Original file detail is lost ?PSON.DRV EPSON.DRV A 1985-10-27 17:28:12 14 12672 ?EC3550.DRV NEC3550.DRV A 1985-10-23 14:08:20 27 21712 ?PLASER.DRV HPLASER.DRV A 1985-10-24 12:28:36 49 15088 ?P747XA.DRV HP747XA.DRV A 1985-10-23 14:32:54 64 21232 ?BMGRX.DRV IBMGRX.DRV A 1985-10-23 15:40:48 85 11328 ?KI92.DRV OKI92.DRV A 1985-10-23 12:59:36 97 11360 ?ITOH.DRV CITOH.DRV A 1985-10-26 17:17:44 109 10944 ?I850.DRV TI850.DRV A 1985-10-24 18:24:40 120 10672 ?Q1500.DRV LQ1500.DRV A 1985-10-23 15:23:28 131 12960 ?OSH.DRV TOSH.DRV A 1985-10-23 15:44:36 144 11856 ?ECP2.DRV NECP2.DRV A 1985-10-23 15:30:54 156 12016 ?G10.DRV SG10.DRV A 1985-10-23 15:03:08 168 13264 ?OURA.FON COURA.FON A 1985-10-24 16:44:56 181 8720 ?OURB.FON COURB.FON A 1985-10-24 16:45:30 190 12304 ?OURC.FON COURC.FON A 1985-10-24 16:46:02 203 8784 ?OURD.FON COURD.FON A 1985-10-24 16:46:36 212 15136 ?ELVA.FON HELVA.FON A 1985-10-24 16:48:20 227 8032 ?ELVB.FON HELVB.FON A 1985-10-24 16:49:04 235 10480 ?ELVC.FON HELVC.FON A 1985-10-24 16:49:44 246 8656 ?ELVD.FON HELVD.FON A 1985-10-24 16:50:22 255 12224 ?MSRA.FON TMSRA.FON A 1985-10-24 16:51:56 267 8208 ?MSRB.FON TMSRB.FON A 1985-10-24 16:52:24 276 10784 ?MSRC.FON TMSRC.FON A 1985-10-24 16:52:54 287 8240 ?MSRD.FON TMSRD.FON A 1985-10-24 16:53:24 296 12608 ?OMAN.FON ROMAN.FON A 1985-10-21 19:52:44 309 27264 ?CRIPT.FON SCRIPT.FON A 1985-10-21 19:52:44 336 5744 ?ODERN.FON MODERN.FON A 1985-10-21 19:52:44 342 9680
Code:
File: WindowsPremiere4of4.img Name Restored Name Attrib YYYY-MM-DD HH:MM:SS Cluster Size -------------- ------------- ------ ------------------- ------- ------- APPS 8A 1985-10-28 14:06:12 0 0 CALC.EXE A 1985-10-23 14:24:10 2 24992 CALENDAR.EXE A 1985-10-23 15:55:00 27 37312 CARDFILE.EXE A 1985-10-23 13:41:54 64 36096 CLIPBRD.EXE A 1985-10-23 16:29:50 100 9696 CLOCK.EXE A 1985-10-24 15:52:28 110 7936 CONTROL.EXE A 1985-10-28 10:58:22 118 53328 NOTEPAD.EXE A 1985-10-23 14:05:00 171 18544 PAINT.EXE A 1985-10-28 11:43:24 190 89744 REVERSI.EXE A 1985-10-23 14:35:50 278 14816 TERMINAL.EXE A 1985-10-28 14:52:08 293 43328 ABC.TXT A 1985-06-04 09:07:36 336 42 DOTHIS.TXT A 1985-10-25 13:02:04 337 493
Post subject: Re: Windows Premiere - November 1985 disk recovery Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 9:27 am
Joined Mon Feb 24, 2014 10:28 am
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Very interesting. Will you provide the recoverable files so that we may take a closer look at them? Afterall, there is a possibility this is in fact an earlier version than the RTM.
Post subject: Re: Windows Premiere - November 1985 disk recovery Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 1:06 pm
Joined Wed Dec 11, 2013 3:24 am
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Thanks for archiving these. Out of curiosity, what is not "clean" about the dump?
Keep in mind that the Kryoflux stream to IMG decoder will warn about all sectors "modified" by the end user (orange in the GUI). I believe you will see modified sectors on all four of these disks.
The original "Premiere Edition" floppy disks were professionally mastered - on an untouched disk, the Kryoflux would show all sectors as green/unmodifed.
I believe the user of these disks overwrote the content, first with another windows pre-release, and then with the backup files. (The Kryoflux software showing modified sectors on disk 4 will prove that)
Quote:
Could it be that this copy of Premiere was prepared before the launch so that it would be available in time for the COMDEX launch party?
I wouldn't call this copy "Premiere", but clearly it is another pre-release.
If the kryoflux is having problems decoding some sectors, you might try running the stream files through the HxC or PCE software - those sometimes have better results.
Post subject: Re: Windows Premiere - November 1985 disk recovery Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 1:15 pm
Joined Sat Aug 19, 2006 8:13 am
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I think this copy is a 1.01 RC since a lot of the files sizes differ from both Premiere Edition and 1.01 RTM. And yes, I would greatly appreciate it if you could provide any files you can get from this.
The date seems to be 1985-11-14, so not much before 1.01 RTM. It's later than the October 21st RC Ray Ozzie has the SDK of, but earlier than 1.01 RTM.
Post subject: Re: Windows Premiere - November 1985 disk recovery Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 6:32 am
Joined Mon Jan 12, 2015 1:33 pm
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Quote:
The original "Premiere Edition" floppy disks were professionally mastered - on an untouched disk, the Kryoflux would show all sectors as green/unmodifed.
All four disks have Orange sectors:
Quote:
I believe the user of these disks overwrote the content, first with another windows pre-release, and then with the backup files.
It does look like the original content has been overwritten, but I think it's unlikely that those changes were made by the end user. The reasons being:
- There were a limited number of people with physical copies of Windows Premiere
- AFAICT, there weren't bulletin boards for downloading updated files
- The files that remain are dated before the RTM version, so they'd have been difficult to attain
- It was quite common at that time, to re-use disks from inventory, so that the latest files could be shipped
It seems likely that the original content was overwritten because either:
- Microsoft had a fixed number of Premiere disks mastered, and distributed some of that batch, but also retained some in inventory. When a new beta was ready, they used the excess supply of Premiere labelled disks, and then shipped those to beta testers, Or;
- The Premiere edition that was distributed at the launch party at COMDEX was likely a beta release that was written in the days before COMDEX so that it would be available at the show. As above, it seems likely that existing disks might have been re-used in order to release the disks complete with labels and sleeves, or;
- Microsoft allowed beta testers to return the disks to Microsoft for updates to be applied
I suppose there's a chance that the end-user could have had access to another user that had some beta disks, and copied from those.
Quote:
open one of the EXEs in hex editor to see its about box and what is says
All of the Applications on the Applications disk have a version string of "Version 1.01"
Post subject: Re: Windows Premiere - November 1985 disk recovery Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 10:32 am
Joined Thu May 01, 2014 10:26 pm
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Looks like there is only one PE from July 1985, then. Then this copy is confirmed to be a 1.01 RC. I actually am not surprised since Ray Ozzie has an SDK from October, and it's a 1.01. One thing I've just noticed is that almost all of the files on disk 2 are byte-wise identical 100% to 1.01 RTM, so is this a 'franken-release' with part 1.01 RTM and the rest is 1.01 RC? At least it solves part of the mystery because for me it's easier to think of a "unified" late October release that Ray Ozzie has the SDK of than several releases. Another interesting fact is the KERNEL.EXE Premiere = 33,328. KERNEL.EXE RTM = 33,343. The KERNEL.EXE in this build is larger than in the RTM at 33,379. I believe this is because the memory management code had to be rewritten from scratch.
And I also found this screenshot some time ago but nobody posted it here yet except me (posting it here as it could change the timeline of PE-RTM releases): [/quote] It is from mid-late August 1985, same timeframe as Premiere. I thought pre-RTM do not have Write??
Post subject: Re: Windows Premiere - November 1985 disk recovery Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 1:58 pm
Joined Mon Feb 24, 2014 10:28 am
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Why would it be a "franken-release"? If some files are identical to the ones in the RTM it just means no further changes were made to them for the final build.
And clearly Write had to be developed at some point, apparently it just wasn't included in builds that were released outside Microsoft. However, since the magazine issue is from August, the photos were likely taken quite before that - my estimate would be in June. So I'd say this build is between the Beta and PE.
Post subject: Re: Windows Premiere - November 1985 disk recovery Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 3:29 pm
Joined Sun Aug 18, 2013 7:26 pm
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DiskingRound wrote:
Looks like there is only one PE from July 1985, then. Then this copy is confirmed to be a 1.01 RC. I actually am not surprised since Ray Ozzie has an SDK from October, and it's a 1.01. One thing I've just noticed is that almost all of the files on disk 2 are byte-wise identical 100% to 1.01 RTM, so is this a 'franken-release' with part 1.01 RTM and the rest is 1.01 RC? At least it solves part of the mystery because for me it's easier to think of a "unified" late October release that Ray Ozzie has the SDK of than several releases. Another interesting fact is the KERNEL.EXE Premiere = 33,328. KERNEL.EXE RTM = 33,343. The KERNEL.EXE in this build is larger than in the RTM at 33,379. I believe this is because the memory management code had to be rewritten from scratch.
And I also found this screenshot some time ago but nobody posted it here yet except me (posting it here as it could change the timeline of PE-RTM releases):
It is from mid-late August 1985, same timeframe as Premiere. I thought pre-RTM do not have Write??[/quote] Woa. so it's confirmed: an interim release between PE and RTM existed. It would make sense if it shipped with a pre-release of the SDK, but that may or may not be the same as Ray Ozzie's.
Some remarks: 1) It would be interesting to reconstruct the history of this floppy set, but we will probably never be able to do so. 2) This is not the elusive Windows 1.00 (some people say PE is 1.00, but that is debatable) 3) Interesting early picture of Write. It's not surprising that a beta or release candidate of Write existed: maybe we should wonder whether MS originally intended to release it at a separate product. Also remember that Write is really Word for Windows version 0.x.
Post subject: Re: Windows Premiere - November 1985 disk recovery Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 6:17 pm
Joined Thu May 01, 2014 10:26 pm
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Overdoze wrote:
Why would it be a "franken-release"? If some files are identical to the ones in the RTM it just means no further changes were made to them for the final build.
The files on disk 2 are from November 1985. Since this release is supposedly from 28/10 (look at the horrid pen marks on the labels on the floppies he received) and the only files after that date on the disks are in disk 2 (and WY700.DRV on disk 3 which is unrelated), the former may be files from Windows 1.01 but without equal file dates. I could be wrong though...
Overdoze wrote:
And clearly Write had to be developed at some point, apparently it just wasn't included in builds that were released outside Microsoft. However, since the magazine issue is from August, the photos were likely taken quite before that - my estimate would be in June. So I'd say this build is between the Beta and PE.
The InfoWorld from July 1, 1985 did show a build that was seemingly inbetween the Beta and PE, so it's an interesting thought.
xelloss wrote:
Woa. so it's confirmed: an interim release between PE and RTM existed. It would make sense if it shipped with a pre-release of the SDK, but that may or may not be the same as Ray Ozzie's.
See my last reply below.
xelloss wrote:
2) This is not the elusive Windows 1.00 (some people say PE is 1.00, but that is debatable)
Remember the early Windows builds from November 1983 we discussed a week ago or so called themselves "Windows 1.00"...
xelloss wrote:
3) Interesting early picture of Write. It's not surprising that a beta or release candidate of Write existed: maybe we should wonder whether MS originally intended to release it at a separate product. Also remember that Write is really Word for Windows version 0.x.
That seems likely considering PE and this RC do not have Write (hence, 4 disks). Maybe it's just a screenshot of PE or some build like that with Write?
So list of mentioned builds we know 100% exist: - Windows 1.00 Beta (May 4, 1985) - Ray Ozzie has an SDK from this time frame and on FTP; - Windows Premiere Edition (July 30, 1985) - Ray Ozzie has an SDK from this time frame and on FTP; - Windows 1.01 RC (October 28, 1985) - Ray Ozzie has an SDK from this time frame and on FTP; - Windows 1.01 (November 1985).
Post subject: Re: Windows Premiere - November 1985 disk recovery Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 9:47 pm
Joined Sun Aug 18, 2013 7:26 pm
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DiskingRound wrote:
xelloss wrote:
2) This is not the elusive Windows 1.00 (some people say PE is 1.00, but that is debatable)
Remember the early Windows builds from November 1983 we discussed a week ago or so called themselves "Windows 1.00"...
Well yes. That one is the only known version to call itself "1.00". After that, there is a bunch of variosy named pre-releases that do not mention a vesion number, including PE. Finally, we have the 1.01 RC and 1.01 RTM.
Notice that when using the GetVersion API, Windows 1.01 reports version 1.00 and Windows 1.04 reports 1.03 (I presume 1.02 and 1.03 behave similarly). It's as if MS decided to use version numbers incremented by 0.01 for marketing purposes.
Post subject: Re: Windows Premiere - November 1985 disk recovery Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 10:19 pm
Joined Mon Feb 24, 2014 10:28 am
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Well there's two possibilities: either the writing on the disks is wrong because whoever wrote it didn't see the file dates on disk 2 and thus wrote the latest date before that - 28th october -- or -- these are two different builds and only files on disk 2 differ between them so for the 14th november build, only disk 2 was updated (rewritten again).
I checked the files listed against those from 1.01 RTM:
-disk 1: PIFEDIT.EXE, KERNEL.EXE and LPC.DRV differ in both size and date, the rest only differ in date (except the three files from July 1985, which are completely identical). -disk 2: only WIN.INI differs in both size and date, the rest only differ in date. -disk 3: EPSON.DRV, NEC3550.DRV, HPLASER.DRV, IBMGRX.DRV, OKI92.DRV, CITOH.DRV, TI850.DRV, LQ1500.DRV, TOSH.DRV and NECP2.DRV differ in both size and date, the rest only in date. -disk 4: CALENDAR.EXE, CARDFILE.EXE, CLOCK.EXE, CONTROL.EXE, PAINT.EXE and TERMINAL.EXE differ in both size and date, the rest only in date (except ABC.TXT, which is completely identical).
So as we can see, between this build and the RTM, the kernel as well as some drivers and apps have changed slightly.
Also note the presence of WRITE.DAT on disk 1, which indicates this build has included Write, but since it was written on PE disks (there's only four because PE didn't include Write) there was no space left for the Write disk.
Post subject: Re: Windows Premiere - November 1985 disk recovery Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 11:02 pm
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Oh so that solves part of the mystery. Guess there may have really been a build between PE and this RC in the screenshot I posted that had Write included, or it may have been a seperate product. Nobody knows.
I also wonder if the files that can be recovered can be posted for download. Even if the KERNEL.EXE is missing, I wonder if it's possible to make a frankenbuild with 1.01 files.
EDIT: I was told on #softhistory that the WIN.INI from disk 2 is the same as in the 1.01 Zenith OEM, but not in the 1.01 RTM. Maybe the 1.01 Zenith OEM and the disk 2 1.01 are both the same thing, and maybe is another RC?
Post subject: Re: Windows Premiere - November 1985 disk recovery Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 9:06 am
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Yeah, we think Zenith's OEM release is in fact based on this 14th November RC, rather than the RTM. Many of the files on disk 2 are identical (including the date) between the two, except for those that were customized by Zenith obviously. I'm not sure why this happened (if it did), but for now it seems pretty likely.
Has anyone compared what the differences are between Zenith OEM and retail? If the above is true, then there's also a possibility that this 14th November RC became RTM the next day (that is, if files are identical and only the date changed).
Post subject: Re: Windows Premiere - November 1985 disk recovery Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 1:50 pm
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In my opinion,it seems the 1.01 RC's were as follows: - 1985-10-21 - The RC Ray Ozzie has the SDK of; - 1985-10-28 - The RC whose files are on trueyanksfan's disks 1, 3, and 4; - 1985-11-14 - The RC whose files are on trueyanksfan's disk 2 and that is probably the base for the 1.01 Zenith OEM on our FTP.
Post subject: Re: Windows Premiere - November 1985 disk recovery Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 6:54 pm
Joined Mon Feb 24, 2014 10:28 am
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That's written on all disks, including disk 2, yet files on that disk were from November. So either the written date is wrong or disk 2 was rewritten twice.
Post subject: Re: Windows Premiere - November 1985 disk recovery Posted: Tue May 02, 2017 8:18 pm
Joined Mon Feb 24, 2014 10:28 am
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I noticed that the game Balance of Power from 1986 (available on Winworld) uses the November 14th build (files of which are on disk 2 from this topic) as a runtime. And it turns out all the files are identical to the RTM (save for WIN.INI, which is just Windows configuration).
Basically, we already have this November 14th build in a decent shape and it's effectively the same as the retail RTM (except for file dates of course). So IMO the dates changed to November 15th when the retail RTM disks were mastered. But still, clearly the files from 14th November were distributed outside Microsoft, since both Balance of Power and Zenith's OEM release of 1.01 use them.
So that's one part of the mystery solved I guess. But there's still the October RC.
EDIT: Actually, it turns out that the 14th November build is included with 1.01 SDK and as said, the only difference is in WIN.INI and file dates. So clearly application developers who used 1.01 SDK to build their apps and wanted to use the runtime, could use the included one. Perhaps this also explains why Zenith used it.
Post subject: Re: Windows Premiere - November 1985 disk recovery Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 2:21 pm
Joined Sat Oct 20, 2018 11:37 am
Posts 461
Sorry for the bump... Hi, could you please upload the floppy images to Mega for other people to see it, also please try to recover those recoverable files if possible.
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