BetaArchive Logo
Navigation Home Database Screenshots Gallery Image Uploader Server Info FTP Servers Wiki Forum RSS Feed Rules Please Donate
UP: 21d, 14h, 33m | CPU: 4% | MEM: 5780MB of 11191MB used
{The community for beta collectors}

Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 22 posts ] 
Author Message
 PostPost subject: Windows Premiere - November 1985 disk recovery        Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 7:53 am 
Reply with quote
Donator
User avatar
Offline

Joined
Mon Jan 12, 2015 1:33 pm

Posts
76

Favourite OS
Windows 1.0 DR5
I acquired the Windows Premiere disks from TrueYanksFan a few months ago, but due to delivery delays and some issues with my floppy drive, I've been unable to read the disks before now. I'm yet to get 100% clean Kroflux dumps but I have been able to read the directory sectors and folder sectors.

In short:
    All disks have a readable directory sector
    The directory sectors retain most of the metadata for the deleted files
    Disks 1-3 contain files produced by DOS BACKUP utility in 1994
    The backup spans all of disk 1 (excluding the PIF folder, was this a bug/feature of BACKUP, that didn't remove directories?), all of disk 2, and a small part of disk 3
    The backup, once restored (using DOS 6.22) contains files in Computrac/Metastock format
    While previously reported as having a maximum file date of October 1985, there are directory entries that show the maximum date to be November 1985

As such:
    Disk 1 is partially overwritten, but retains a complete and unchanged PIF folder (85KB size on disk), and the directory list is readable
    Disk 2 is overwritten, but the directory list is readable
    Disk 3 is partially overwritten (30K size on disk), with the remainder seemingly recoverable, and the directory list is readable
    Disk 4 is complete and unchanged

So, when TrueYanksFan reported that only 25% of the set was readable, in reality, just over 50% of the files seem to be recoverable, and almost 100% of the folder structure, file names and dates can bet determined.

It seems that the Alias copy was released in July 1985, and this copy is definitely a November 1985 copy, produced just prior to the COMEX 85 launch. Could it be that this copy of Premiere was prepared before the launch so that it would be available in time for the COMDEX launch party?

I wrote a quick and dirty program to read the directory entries. The FAT12 format doesn't retain the original first-letter of a file name, so I've mapped the names by hand. I'm yet to determine the names of the files that were overwritten in the directory sector.

Here's a dump of the directory entries.

Code:
File: WindowsPremiere1of4.img
Name            Restored Name   Attrib  YYYY-MM-DD HH:MM:SS  Cluster     Size
--------------  -------------   ------  -------------------  -------  -------
PIF                             D       1985-10-28 13:47:48        2        0
  .                             D       1985-10-28 13:47:48        2        0
  ..                            D       1985-10-28 13:47:48        0        0
  PIFEDIT.EXE                   A       1985-10-23 13:13:06      245    28544
  123.PIF                       A       1985-10-26 12:57:10      273      369
  123-2.PIF                     A       1985-10-26 12:58:54      274      369
  BASCOM.PIF                    A       1985-09-18 11:04:44      275      369
  BASIC.PIF                     A       1985-10-14 18:02:56      276      369
  BASICA.PIF                    A       1985-10-14 18:03:34      277      369
  CHART.PIF                     A       1985-09-18 11:09:52      278      369
  CLOUT.PIF                     A       1985-06-26 14:39:34      279      369
  DBASE.PIF                     A       1985-09-18 11:16:08      280      369
  DBASE2.PIF                    A       1985-09-18 11:16:38      281      369
  DBASE3.PIF                    A       1985-09-18 11:17:08      282      369
  DW2PG.PIF                     A       1985-09-18 11:18:24      283      369
  DW3PG.PIF                     A       1985-09-18 11:19:12      284      369
  FILE.PIF                      A       1985-09-18 11:28:06      285      369
  FW.PIF                        A       1985-09-18 11:28:40      286      369
  FWC.PIF                       A       1985-09-18 11:29:16      287      369
  FWT.PIF                       A       1985-09-18 11:30:54      288      369
  GRAPH.PIF                     A       1985-09-18 11:31:56      289      369
  HTPM.PIF                      A       1980-01-03 16:23:04      290      369
  IBMFILE.PIF                   A       1985-09-18 11:44:08      291      369
  IBMGRAPH.PIF                  A       1985-09-18 11:45:32      292      369
  IBMREPRT.PIF                  A       1980-01-03 15:12:22      293      369
  IBMWRITE.PIF                  A       1980-01-03 15:23:52      294      369
  LOTUS.PIF                     A       1985-10-26 12:58:12      295      369
  LOTUS2.PIF                    A       1985-10-26 13:17:36      296      369
  MP.PIF                        A       1985-09-18 11:35:38      297      369
  MP40.PIF                      A       1985-09-18 11:36:56      298      369
  MP80.PIF                      A       1985-09-18 11:37:42      299      369
  MSACCESS.PIF                  A       1980-01-04 16:09:06      300      369
  PE.PIF                        A       1985-06-28 13:08:24      301      369
  PC-DRAW.PIF                   A       1985-09-24 10:39:20      303      369
  PFSACCES.PIF                  A       1980-01-03 15:36:54      304      369
  PLAN.PIF                      A       1985-09-18 11:49:46      305      369
  PROEDIT.PIF                   A       1985-09-18 11:50:40      306      369
  PROJ.PIF                      A       1985-09-18 11:51:22      307      369
  PROJM.PIF                     A       1985-09-18 11:52:54      308      369
  RB5000.PIF                    A       1985-09-18 12:02:10      309      369
  RBASE.PIF                     A       1985-09-18 12:02:48      310      369
  REPORT.PIF                    A       1985-09-18 12:03:22      311      369
  RG.PIF                        A       1985-09-18 12:04:28      312      369
  SC3.PIF                       A       1985-09-18 12:05:06      313      369
  SCOM.PIF                      A       1985-09-18 12:06:44      314      369
  SCOMII.PIF                    A       1985-09-18 12:06:22      315      369
  SPELL.PIF                     A       1985-09-19 11:53:26      316      369
  SYMPHACC.PIF                  A       1985-08-27 06:37:10      317      369
  SYMPHONY.PIF                  A       1985-09-18 12:13:06      318      369
  TURBO.PIF                     A       1985-09-18 12:13:40      319      369
  TURBOBCD.PIF                  A       1985-09-18 12:15:50      320      369
  TURBO-87.PIF                  A       1985-09-18 12:15:10      321      369
  VX.PIF                        A       1980-01-03 15:45:34      322      369
  WORD.PIF                      A       1985-09-19 11:55:18      323      369
  WP.PIF                        A       1985-09-18 12:18:42      324      369
  WRDPERF.PIF                   A       1985-08-06 16:48:38      325      369
  WRITE.PIF                     A       1985-09-18 12:19:42      326      369
  WS.PIF                        A       1985-09-18 12:20:34      327      369
  WS2000.PIF                    A       1985-09-18 12:21:10      328      369
  XTALK.PIF                     A       1985-09-18 12:21:42      329      369
  XYWRITE.PIF                   A       1980-01-03 13:31:14      330      369
BACKUP.001                      8A      1994-03-19 22:41:18        0        0  //The disk label
BACKUP.001                      RA      1994-03-19 22:41:18        4   269312  //Original file detail is lost
CONTROL.001                     RA      1994-03-19 22:41:16        3     3609  //Original file detail is lost
?ERNEL.EXE      KERNEL.EXE      A       1985-10-24 15:36:04       37    33279
?YSTEM.DRV      SYSTEM.DRV      A       1985-10-23 14:44:44       70     2594
?EYBUS.DRV      KEYBUS.DRV      A       1985-10-23 14:45:58       73     3335
?OMOUSE.DRV     NOMOUSE.DRV     A       1985-10-23 14:51:48       77     1592
?OUSE.DRV       MOUSE.DRV       A       1985-10-23 14:49:46       79     3239
?SMOUSE1.DRV    MSMOUSE1.DRV    A       1985-10-23 14:59:04       83     1966
?SMOUSE2.DRV    MSMOUSE2.DRV    A       1985-10-23 14:59:20       85     1966
?MOUSE.DRV      LMOUSE.DRV      A       1985-10-23 15:53:20       87     2484
?PC.DRV         LPC.DRV         A       1985-10-26 14:55:42       90     2422
?OYMOUSE.DRV    JOYMOUSE.DRV    A       1985-10-23 15:46:14       93     2114
?GA.DRV         CGA.DRV         A       1985-10-24 13:22:18       96    13008
?ERCULES.DRV    HERCULES.DRV    A       1985-10-24 13:22:40      109    15776
?GAMONO.DRV     EGAMONO.DRV     A       1985-10-24 13:21:56      125    13952
?GAHIBW.DRV     EGAHIBW.DRV     A       1985-10-24 13:21:32      139    13952
?GALORES.DRV    EGALORES.DRV    A       1985-10-24 13:23:10      153    15648
?GAHIRES.DRV    EGAHIRES.DRV    A       1985-10-24 13:23:38      169    17536
?OUND.DRV       SOUND.DRV       A       1985-10-23 15:04:40      187     5853
?OMM.DRV        COMM.DRV        A       1985-10-27 19:52:36      193     4860
?OFONTS.FON     LOFONTS.FON     A       1985-10-25 12:27:58      198     5552
?IFONTS.FON     HIFONTS.FON     A       1985-10-25 12:28:14      204     7472
?AMDRIVE.SYS    RAMDRIVE.SYS    A       1985-07-12 16:42:46      212     6459
?MM.PC          EMM.PC          A       1985-07-30 17:15:28      219    12898
?MM.AT          EMM.AT          A       1985-07-30 17:33:12      232    12874
?RITE.DAT       WRITE.DAT       A       1985-10-28 13:55:50      331       43
?Y700.DRV       WY700.DRV       A       1986-03-10 14:12:10      332    15776 //Appears to have been added in 1986


Code:
File: WindowsPremiere2of4.img
Name            Restored Name   Attrib  YYYY-MM-DD HH:MM:SS  Cluster     Size
--------------  -------------   ------  -------------------  -------  -------
BACKUP.002                      8A      1994-03-19 22:43:16        0        0  //The disk label
BACKUP.002                      RA      1994-03-19 22:43:14        3   358400  //Original file detail is lost
CONTROL.002                     RA      1994-03-19 22:43:12        2     3849  //Original file detail is lost
?SER.EXE        USER.EXE        A       1985-11-14 13:00:18       96   122400
?SDOSD.EXE      MSDOSD.EXE      A       1985-10-23 12:50:30      216     5934
?SDOS.EXE       MSDOS.EXE       A       1985-11-14 13:14:10      222    41904
?GA.GRB         CGA.GRB         A       1985-11-06 13:03:44      263     1350
?GALORES.GRB    EGALORES.GRB    A       1985-11-06 13:04:10      265     1213
?GAHIRES.GRB    EGAHIRES.GRB    A       1985-07-24 13:55:06      267       15
?GAHIBW.GRB     EGAHIBW.GRB     A       1985-07-24 13:55:06      268       15
?GAMONO.GRB     EGAMONO.GRB     A       1985-11-06 13:04:24      269     1061
?ERCULES.GRB    HERCULES.GRB    A       1985-11-06 13:03:56      271     1250
?IN.CNF         WIN.CNF         A       1985-11-12 13:09:10      273     1936
?GALORES.LGO    EGALORES.LGO    A       1985-06-27 12:29:22      275        9
?GAHIRES.LGO    EGAHIRES.LGO    A       1985-06-27 12:29:22      276        9
?GAHIBW.LGO     EGAHIBW.LGO     A       1985-06-27 12:29:22      277        9
?GAMONO.LGO     EGAMONO.LGO     A       1985-11-07 17:23:00      278     2930
?ERCULES.LGO    HERCULES.LGO    A       1985-11-07 17:22:28      281     3054
?GA.LGO         CGA.LGO         A       1985-11-07 17:21:48      284     2931
?IN.INI         WIN.INI         A       1985-11-12 17:23:48      287     2065
?INOLDAP.MOD    WINOLDAP.MOD    A       1985-11-11 12:08:02      290    19392
?POOLER.EXE     SPOOLER.EXE     A       1985-11-12 10:49:14      309    13216


Code:
File: WindowsPremiere3of4.img
Name            Restored Name   Attrib  YYYY-MM-DD HH:MM:SS  Cluster     Size
--------------  -------------   ------  -------------------  -------  -------
BACKUP.003                      8A      1994-03-19 22:44:30        0        0  //The disk label
BACKUP.003                      RA      1994-03-19 22:44:28        3    29079  //Original file detail is lost
CONTROL.003                     RA      1994-03-19 22:44:30        2      617  //Original file detail is lost
?PSON.DRV       EPSON.DRV       A       1985-10-27 17:28:12       14    12672
?EC3550.DRV     NEC3550.DRV     A       1985-10-23 14:08:20       27    21712
?PLASER.DRV     HPLASER.DRV     A       1985-10-24 12:28:36       49    15088
?P747XA.DRV     HP747XA.DRV     A       1985-10-23 14:32:54       64    21232
?BMGRX.DRV      IBMGRX.DRV      A       1985-10-23 15:40:48       85    11328
?KI92.DRV       OKI92.DRV       A       1985-10-23 12:59:36       97    11360
?ITOH.DRV       CITOH.DRV       A       1985-10-26 17:17:44      109    10944
?I850.DRV       TI850.DRV       A       1985-10-24 18:24:40      120    10672
?Q1500.DRV      LQ1500.DRV      A       1985-10-23 15:23:28      131    12960
?OSH.DRV        TOSH.DRV        A       1985-10-23 15:44:36      144    11856
?ECP2.DRV       NECP2.DRV       A       1985-10-23 15:30:54      156    12016
?G10.DRV        SG10.DRV        A       1985-10-23 15:03:08      168    13264
?OURA.FON       COURA.FON       A       1985-10-24 16:44:56      181     8720
?OURB.FON       COURB.FON       A       1985-10-24 16:45:30      190    12304
?OURC.FON       COURC.FON       A       1985-10-24 16:46:02      203     8784
?OURD.FON       COURD.FON       A       1985-10-24 16:46:36      212    15136
?ELVA.FON       HELVA.FON       A       1985-10-24 16:48:20      227     8032
?ELVB.FON       HELVB.FON       A       1985-10-24 16:49:04      235    10480
?ELVC.FON       HELVC.FON       A       1985-10-24 16:49:44      246     8656
?ELVD.FON       HELVD.FON       A       1985-10-24 16:50:22      255    12224
?MSRA.FON       TMSRA.FON       A       1985-10-24 16:51:56      267     8208
?MSRB.FON       TMSRB.FON       A       1985-10-24 16:52:24      276    10784
?MSRC.FON       TMSRC.FON       A       1985-10-24 16:52:54      287     8240
?MSRD.FON       TMSRD.FON       A       1985-10-24 16:53:24      296    12608
?OMAN.FON       ROMAN.FON       A       1985-10-21 19:52:44      309    27264
?CRIPT.FON      SCRIPT.FON      A       1985-10-21 19:52:44      336     5744
?ODERN.FON      MODERN.FON      A       1985-10-21 19:52:44      342     9680


Code:
File: WindowsPremiere4of4.img
Name            Restored Name   Attrib  YYYY-MM-DD HH:MM:SS  Cluster     Size
--------------  -------------   ------  -------------------  -------  -------
APPS                            8A      1985-10-28 14:06:12        0        0
CALC.EXE                        A       1985-10-23 14:24:10        2    24992
CALENDAR.EXE                    A       1985-10-23 15:55:00       27    37312
CARDFILE.EXE                    A       1985-10-23 13:41:54       64    36096
CLIPBRD.EXE                     A       1985-10-23 16:29:50      100     9696
CLOCK.EXE                       A       1985-10-24 15:52:28      110     7936
CONTROL.EXE                     A       1985-10-28 10:58:22      118    53328
NOTEPAD.EXE                     A       1985-10-23 14:05:00      171    18544
PAINT.EXE                       A       1985-10-28 11:43:24      190    89744
REVERSI.EXE                     A       1985-10-23 14:35:50      278    14816
TERMINAL.EXE                    A       1985-10-28 14:52:08      293    43328
ABC.TXT                         A       1985-06-04 09:07:36      336       42
DOTHIS.TXT                      A       1985-10-25 13:02:04      337      493


Top  Profile
 PostPost subject: Re: Windows Premiere - November 1985 disk recovery        Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 9:27 am 
Reply with quote
FTP Access
User avatar
Offline

Joined
Mon Feb 24, 2014 10:28 am

Posts
1591

Location
Slovenia

Favourite OS
5111
Very interesting. Will you provide the recoverable files so that we may take a closer look at them? Afterall, there is a possibility this is in fact an earlier version than the RTM.

_________________
Image

KRNL386 - my site about retro computing | My site about Windows 1.0 | My blog | 86Box Manager - my configuration manager for 86Box


Top  Profile
 PostPost subject: Re: Windows Premiere - November 1985 disk recovery        Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 1:06 pm 
Reply with quote
FTP Access
Offline

Joined
Wed Dec 11, 2013 3:24 am

Posts
217

Favourite OS
Pencil and paper
Thanks for archiving these. Out of curiosity, what is not "clean" about the dump?

Keep in mind that the Kryoflux stream to IMG decoder will warn about all sectors "modified" by the end user (orange in the GUI). I believe you will see modified sectors on all four of these disks.

The original "Premiere Edition" floppy disks were professionally mastered - on an untouched disk, the Kryoflux would show all sectors as green/unmodifed.

I believe the user of these disks overwrote the content, first with another windows pre-release, and then with the backup files. (The Kryoflux software showing modified sectors on disk 4 will prove that)

Quote:
Could it be that this copy of Premiere was prepared before the launch so that it would be available in time for the COMDEX launch party?

I wouldn't call this copy "Premiere", but clearly it is another pre-release.

If the kryoflux is having problems decoding some sectors, you might try running the stream files through the HxC or PCE software - those sometimes have better results.


Top  Profile
 PostPost subject: Re: Windows Premiere - November 1985 disk recovery        Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 1:15 pm 
Reply with quote
Donator
User avatar
Offline

Joined
Sat Aug 19, 2006 8:13 am

Posts
2006

Location
Slovenia, Central Europe.

Favourite OS
Windows 98 SE 4.10.2222B
I think this copy is a 1.01 RC since a lot of the files sizes differ from both Premiere Edition and 1.01 RTM. And yes, I would greatly appreciate it if you could provide any files you can get from this.

The date seems to be 1985-11-14, so not much before 1.01 RTM. It's later than the October 21st RC Ray Ozzie has the SDK of, but earlier than 1.01 RTM.

_________________
Join #softhistory @ RoL IRC, a nice community for true enthusiasts!
Anime channel: #doki-doki @ RoL IRC, Mibbit, KiwiIRC.
The 86Box help channel is #softhistory now!

Check out our SoftHistory Forum for quality discussion about older software.


Top  Profile  WWW  ICQ  YIM
 PostPost subject: Re: Windows Premiere - November 1985 disk recovery        Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 3:13 pm 
Reply with quote
Donator
User avatar
Offline

Joined
Sun Aug 18, 2013 7:26 pm

Posts
278

Location
Edinburgh, Scotland

Favourite OS
Windows for Workgroups 3.11
JustZisGuy wrote:
I wouldn't call this copy "Premiere", but clearly it is another pre-release.

The Apps disk is intact, so we should call it whatever the About box of those apps says.
I'm very interested in knowing...


Top  Profile
 PostPost subject: Re: Windows Premiere - November 1985 disk recovery        Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 4:37 pm 
Reply with quote
FTP Access
User avatar
Offline

Joined
Thu May 01, 2014 10:26 pm

Posts
1500

Location
Inside the space between . and I

Favourite OS
Nashville 4.00.83
Exactly. I wonder if the recoverable files can be posted for download?

Or RubyTuesday, you can open one of the EXEs in hex editor to see its about box and what is says. My guess is 1.01, but I may be wrong.

_________________
Image
You cannot escape Windows 10.


Top  Profile
 PostPost subject: Re: Windows Premiere - November 1985 disk recovery        Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 6:32 am 
Reply with quote
Donator
User avatar
Offline

Joined
Mon Jan 12, 2015 1:33 pm

Posts
76

Favourite OS
Windows 1.0 DR5
Quote:
The original "Premiere Edition" floppy disks were professionally mastered - on an untouched disk, the Kryoflux would show all sectors as green/unmodifed.

All four disks have Orange sectors:
Image

Image

Image

Image

Quote:
I believe the user of these disks overwrote the content, first with another windows pre-release, and then with the backup files.

It does look like the original content has been overwritten, but I think it's unlikely that those changes were made by the end user. The reasons being:

    - There were a limited number of people with physical copies of Windows Premiere
    - AFAICT, there weren't bulletin boards for downloading updated files
    - The files that remain are dated before the RTM version, so they'd have been difficult to attain
    - It was quite common at that time, to re-use disks from inventory, so that the latest files could be shipped

It seems likely that the original content was overwritten because either:
    - Microsoft had a fixed number of Premiere disks mastered, and distributed some of that batch, but also retained some in inventory. When a new beta was ready, they used the excess supply of Premiere labelled disks, and then shipped those to beta testers, Or;
    - The Premiere edition that was distributed at the launch party at COMDEX was likely a beta release that was written in the days before COMDEX so that it would be available at the show. As above, it seems likely that existing disks might have been re-used in order to release the disks complete with labels and sleeves, or;
    - Microsoft allowed beta testers to return the disks to Microsoft for updates to be applied

I suppose there's a chance that the end-user could have had access to another user that had some beta disks, and copied from those.

Quote:
open one of the EXEs in hex editor to see its about box and what is says

All of the Applications on the Applications disk have a version string of "Version 1.01"


Top  Profile
 PostPost subject: Re: Windows Premiere - November 1985 disk recovery        Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 10:32 am 
Reply with quote
FTP Access
User avatar
Offline

Joined
Thu May 01, 2014 10:26 pm

Posts
1500

Location
Inside the space between . and I

Favourite OS
Nashville 4.00.83
Looks like there is only one PE from July 1985, then. Then this copy is confirmed to be a 1.01 RC. I actually am not surprised since Ray Ozzie has an SDK from October, and it's a 1.01.
One thing I've just noticed is that almost all of the files on disk 2 are byte-wise identical 100% to 1.01 RTM, so is this a 'franken-release' with part 1.01 RTM and the rest is 1.01 RC? At least it solves part of the mystery because for me it's easier to think of a "unified" late October release that Ray Ozzie has the SDK of than several releases.
Another interesting fact is the KERNEL.EXE Premiere = 33,328. KERNEL.EXE RTM = 33,343. The KERNEL.EXE in this build is larger than in the RTM at 33,379. I believe this is because the memory management code had to be rewritten from scratch.

And I also found this screenshot some time ago but nobody posted it here yet except me (posting it here as it could change the timeline of PE-RTM releases):
Image[/quote]
It is from mid-late August 1985, same timeframe as Premiere. I thought pre-RTM do not have Write??

_________________
Image
You cannot escape Windows 10.


Top  Profile
 PostPost subject: Re: Windows Premiere - November 1985 disk recovery        Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 1:58 pm 
Reply with quote
FTP Access
User avatar
Offline

Joined
Mon Feb 24, 2014 10:28 am

Posts
1591

Location
Slovenia

Favourite OS
5111
Why would it be a "franken-release"? If some files are identical to the ones in the RTM it just means no further changes were made to them for the final build.

And clearly Write had to be developed at some point, apparently it just wasn't included in builds that were released outside Microsoft. However, since the magazine issue is from August, the photos were likely taken quite before that - my estimate would be in June. So I'd say this build is between the Beta and PE.

_________________
Image

KRNL386 - my site about retro computing | My site about Windows 1.0 | My blog | 86Box Manager - my configuration manager for 86Box


Top  Profile
 PostPost subject: Re: Windows Premiere - November 1985 disk recovery        Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 3:29 pm 
Reply with quote
Donator
User avatar
Offline

Joined
Sun Aug 18, 2013 7:26 pm

Posts
278

Location
Edinburgh, Scotland

Favourite OS
Windows for Workgroups 3.11
DiskingRound wrote:
Looks like there is only one PE from July 1985, then. Then this copy is confirmed to be a 1.01 RC. I actually am not surprised since Ray Ozzie has an SDK from October, and it's a 1.01.
One thing I've just noticed is that almost all of the files on disk 2 are byte-wise identical 100% to 1.01 RTM, so is this a 'franken-release' with part 1.01 RTM and the rest is 1.01 RC? At least it solves part of the mystery because for me it's easier to think of a "unified" late October release that Ray Ozzie has the SDK of than several releases.
Another interesting fact is the KERNEL.EXE Premiere = 33,328. KERNEL.EXE RTM = 33,343. The KERNEL.EXE in this build is larger than in the RTM at 33,379. I believe this is because the memory management code had to be rewritten from scratch.

And I also found this screenshot some time ago but nobody posted it here yet except me (posting it here as it could change the timeline of PE-RTM releases):
Image

It is from mid-late August 1985, same timeframe as Premiere. I thought pre-RTM do not have Write??[/quote]
Woa. so it's confirmed: an interim release between PE and RTM existed.
It would make sense if it shipped with a pre-release of the SDK, but that may or may not be the same as Ray Ozzie's.

Some remarks:
1) It would be interesting to reconstruct the history of this floppy set, but we will probably never be able to do so.
2) This is not the elusive Windows 1.00 (some people say PE is 1.00, but that is debatable)
3) Interesting early picture of Write. It's not surprising that a beta or release candidate of Write existed: maybe we should wonder whether MS originally intended to release it at a separate product. Also remember that Write is really Word for Windows version 0.x.


Top  Profile
 PostPost subject: Re: Windows Premiere - November 1985 disk recovery        Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 6:17 pm 
Reply with quote
FTP Access
User avatar
Offline

Joined
Thu May 01, 2014 10:26 pm

Posts
1500

Location
Inside the space between . and I

Favourite OS
Nashville 4.00.83
Overdoze wrote:
Why would it be a "franken-release"? If some files are identical to the ones in the RTM it just means no further changes were made to them for the final build.

The files on disk 2 are from November 1985. Since this release is supposedly from 28/10 (look at the horrid pen marks on the labels on the floppies he received) and the only files after that date on the disks are in disk 2 (and WY700.DRV on disk 3 which is unrelated), the former may be files from Windows 1.01 but without equal file dates. I could be wrong though...

Overdoze wrote:
And clearly Write had to be developed at some point, apparently it just wasn't included in builds that were released outside Microsoft. However, since the magazine issue is from August, the photos were likely taken quite before that - my estimate would be in June. So I'd say this build is between the Beta and PE.

The InfoWorld from July 1, 1985 did show a build that was seemingly inbetween the Beta and PE, so it's an interesting thought.

xelloss wrote:
Woa. so it's confirmed: an interim release between PE and RTM existed.
It would make sense if it shipped with a pre-release of the SDK, but that may or may not be the same as Ray Ozzie's.

See my last reply below.

xelloss wrote:
2) This is not the elusive Windows 1.00 (some people say PE is 1.00, but that is debatable)

Remember the early Windows builds from November 1983 we discussed a week ago or so called themselves "Windows 1.00"...

xelloss wrote:
3) Interesting early picture of Write. It's not surprising that a beta or release candidate of Write existed: maybe we should wonder whether MS originally intended to release it at a separate product. Also remember that Write is really Word for Windows version 0.x.

That seems likely considering PE and this RC do not have Write (hence, 4 disks). Maybe it's just a screenshot of PE or some build like that with Write?

So list of mentioned builds we know 100% exist:
- Windows 1.00 Beta (May 4, 1985) - Ray Ozzie has an SDK from this time frame and on FTP;
- Windows Premiere Edition (July 30, 1985) - Ray Ozzie has an SDK from this time frame and on FTP;
- Windows 1.01 RC (October 28, 1985) - Ray Ozzie has an SDK from this time frame and on FTP;
- Windows 1.01 (November 1985).

_________________
Image
You cannot escape Windows 10.


Top  Profile
 PostPost subject: Re: Windows Premiere - November 1985 disk recovery        Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 9:47 pm 
Reply with quote
Donator
User avatar
Offline

Joined
Sun Aug 18, 2013 7:26 pm

Posts
278

Location
Edinburgh, Scotland

Favourite OS
Windows for Workgroups 3.11
DiskingRound wrote:
xelloss wrote:
2) This is not the elusive Windows 1.00 (some people say PE is 1.00, but that is debatable)

Remember the early Windows builds from November 1983 we discussed a week ago or so called themselves "Windows 1.00"...

Well yes. That one is the only known version to call itself "1.00".
After that, there is a bunch of variosy named pre-releases that do not mention a vesion number, including PE.
Finally, we have the 1.01 RC and 1.01 RTM.

Notice that when using the GetVersion API, Windows 1.01 reports version 1.00 and Windows 1.04 reports 1.03 (I presume 1.02 and 1.03 behave similarly). It's as if MS decided to use version numbers incremented by 0.01 for marketing purposes.


Top  Profile
 PostPost subject: Re: Windows Premiere - November 1985 disk recovery        Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 10:19 pm 
Reply with quote
FTP Access
User avatar
Offline

Joined
Mon Feb 24, 2014 10:28 am

Posts
1591

Location
Slovenia

Favourite OS
5111
Well there's two possibilities: either the writing on the disks is wrong because whoever wrote it didn't see the file dates on disk 2 and thus wrote the latest date before that - 28th october -- or -- these are two different builds and only files on disk 2 differ between them so for the 14th november build, only disk 2 was updated (rewritten again).

I checked the files listed against those from 1.01 RTM:

-disk 1: PIFEDIT.EXE, KERNEL.EXE and LPC.DRV differ in both size and date, the rest only differ in date (except the three files from July 1985, which are completely identical).
-disk 2: only WIN.INI differs in both size and date, the rest only differ in date.
-disk 3: EPSON.DRV, NEC3550.DRV, HPLASER.DRV, IBMGRX.DRV, OKI92.DRV, CITOH.DRV, TI850.DRV, LQ1500.DRV, TOSH.DRV and NECP2.DRV differ in both size and date, the rest only in date.
-disk 4: CALENDAR.EXE, CARDFILE.EXE, CLOCK.EXE, CONTROL.EXE, PAINT.EXE and TERMINAL.EXE differ in both size and date, the rest only in date (except ABC.TXT, which is completely identical).

So as we can see, between this build and the RTM, the kernel as well as some drivers and apps have changed slightly.

Also note the presence of WRITE.DAT on disk 1, which indicates this build has included Write, but since it was written on PE disks (there's only four because PE didn't include Write) there was no space left for the Write disk.

_________________
Image

KRNL386 - my site about retro computing | My site about Windows 1.0 | My blog | 86Box Manager - my configuration manager for 86Box


Top  Profile
 PostPost subject: Re: Windows Premiere - November 1985 disk recovery        Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 11:02 pm 
Reply with quote
FTP Access
User avatar
Offline

Joined
Thu May 01, 2014 10:26 pm

Posts
1500

Location
Inside the space between . and I

Favourite OS
Nashville 4.00.83
Oh so that solves part of the mystery. Guess there may have really been a build between PE and this RC in the screenshot I posted that had Write included, or it may have been a seperate product. Nobody knows.

I also wonder if the files that can be recovered can be posted for download. Even if the KERNEL.EXE is missing, I wonder if it's possible to make a frankenbuild with 1.01 files.

EDIT: I was told on #softhistory that the WIN.INI from disk 2 is the same as in the 1.01 Zenith OEM, but not in the 1.01 RTM. Maybe the 1.01 Zenith OEM and the disk 2 1.01 are both the same thing, and maybe is another RC?

_________________
Image
You cannot escape Windows 10.


Top  Profile
 PostPost subject: Re: Windows Premiere - November 1985 disk recovery        Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 9:06 am 
Reply with quote
FTP Access
User avatar
Offline

Joined
Mon Feb 24, 2014 10:28 am

Posts
1591

Location
Slovenia

Favourite OS
5111
Yeah, we think Zenith's OEM release is in fact based on this 14th November RC, rather than the RTM. Many of the files on disk 2 are identical (including the date) between the two, except for those that were customized by Zenith obviously. I'm not sure why this happened (if it did), but for now it seems pretty likely.

Has anyone compared what the differences are between Zenith OEM and retail? If the above is true, then there's also a possibility that this 14th November RC became RTM the next day (that is, if files are identical and only the date changed).

_________________
Image

KRNL386 - my site about retro computing | My site about Windows 1.0 | My blog | 86Box Manager - my configuration manager for 86Box


Top  Profile
 PostPost subject: Re: Windows Premiere - November 1985 disk recovery        Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 1:50 pm 
Reply with quote
Donator
User avatar
Offline

Joined
Sat Aug 19, 2006 8:13 am

Posts
2006

Location
Slovenia, Central Europe.

Favourite OS
Windows 98 SE 4.10.2222B
In my opinion,it seems the 1.01 RC's were as follows:
- 1985-10-21 - The RC Ray Ozzie has the SDK of;
- 1985-10-28 - The RC whose files are on trueyanksfan's disks 1, 3, and 4;
- 1985-11-14 - The RC whose files are on trueyanksfan's disk 2 and that is probably the base for the 1.01 Zenith OEM on our FTP.

_________________
Join #softhistory @ RoL IRC, a nice community for true enthusiasts!
Anime channel: #doki-doki @ RoL IRC, Mibbit, KiwiIRC.
The 86Box help channel is #softhistory now!

Check out our SoftHistory Forum for quality discussion about older software.


Top  Profile  WWW  ICQ  YIM
 PostPost subject: Re: Windows Premiere - November 1985 disk recovery        Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 4:16 pm 
Reply with quote
Donator
User avatar
Offline

Joined
Mon Sep 21, 2009 2:23 pm

Posts
315

Location
Neptune

Favourite OS
Windows 10
10/28 Seems like the most logical source date - I mean, it's actually written on the floppies.

Image


Top  Profile
 PostPost subject: Re: Windows Premiere - November 1985 disk recovery        Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 6:54 pm 
Reply with quote
FTP Access
User avatar
Offline

Joined
Mon Feb 24, 2014 10:28 am

Posts
1591

Location
Slovenia

Favourite OS
5111
That's written on all disks, including disk 2, yet files on that disk were from November. So either the written date is wrong or disk 2 was rewritten twice.

_________________
Image

KRNL386 - my site about retro computing | My site about Windows 1.0 | My blog | 86Box Manager - my configuration manager for 86Box


Top  Profile
 PostPost subject: Re: Windows Premiere - November 1985 disk recovery        Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 7:20 pm 
Reply with quote
Donator
User avatar
Offline

Joined
Mon Sep 21, 2009 2:23 pm

Posts
315

Location
Neptune

Favourite OS
Windows 10
Overdoze wrote:
... or disk 2 was rewritten twice.


I think that it is quite possible.


Top  Profile
 PostPost subject: Re: Windows Premiere - November 1985 disk recovery        Posted: Tue May 02, 2017 8:18 pm 
Reply with quote
FTP Access
User avatar
Offline

Joined
Mon Feb 24, 2014 10:28 am

Posts
1591

Location
Slovenia

Favourite OS
5111
I noticed that the game Balance of Power from 1986 (available on Winworld) uses the November 14th build (files of which are on disk 2 from this topic) as a runtime. And it turns out all the files are identical to the RTM (save for WIN.INI, which is just Windows configuration).

Basically, we already have this November 14th build in a decent shape and it's effectively the same as the retail RTM (except for file dates of course). So IMO the dates changed to November 15th when the retail RTM disks were mastered. But still, clearly the files from 14th November were distributed outside Microsoft, since both Balance of Power and Zenith's OEM release of 1.01 use them.

So that's one part of the mystery solved I guess. But there's still the October RC.

EDIT: Actually, it turns out that the 14th November build is included with 1.01 SDK and as said, the only difference is in WIN.INI and file dates. So clearly application developers who used 1.01 SDK to build their apps and wanted to use the runtime, could use the included one. Perhaps this also explains why Zenith used it.

_________________
Image

KRNL386 - my site about retro computing | My site about Windows 1.0 | My blog | 86Box Manager - my configuration manager for 86Box


Top  Profile
 PostPost subject: Re: Windows Premiere - November 1985 disk recovery        Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 2:01 am 
Reply with quote
Permanently Banned
Offline

Joined
Wed Dec 30, 2015 10:14 pm

Posts
116

Favourite OS
7601 SP1
Are you still able to use the overwritten files and install this since you were able to restore them with the MS-DOS Backup Utility or no?


Top  Profile
 PostPost subject: Re: Windows Premiere - November 1985 disk recovery        Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 2:21 pm 
Reply with quote
FTP Access
Offline

Joined
Sat Oct 20, 2018 11:37 am

Posts
461
Sorry for the bump...
Hi, could you please upload the floppy images to Mega for other people to see it, also please try to recover those recoverable files if possible.

Regards,
ComputerHunter


Top  Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 22 posts ] 




Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  

All views expressed in these forums are those of the author and do not necessarily represent the views of the BetaArchive site owner.

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group

Copyright © 2006-2019

 

Sitemap | XML | RSS