Windows 10 RS2/RS3 Discussion

[jimmsta]

I'd like to open this thread to discuss the various changes coming in RS2 and whatever comes next in the long line of Windows 10 builds.

So far, it appears that build 15063 will be the RTM build for RS2.
RS3 appears to have already started development - I don't have solid proof of this, but I believe there was a single build, either 15044 or 15043 that was labelled RS3. I need someone to help me confirm this or deny it.

As far as features go, RS2 introduces the new CPU family/stepping detection* to determine if you're running the software on appropriate hardware. There's also a lot of nifty features added as AppX Packages for pre-installed creators tools. The OS has received ease-of-use improvements and minor UI tweaks, as well as the incremental move to replace the old Control Panel with the Settings app. Not everything is represented in the Settings app, but things are moving and changing. The control panel is no longer accessible from the Win+X menu, like it was in previous releases of Windows 10. This will likely continue into RS3 and the future beyond that.

With this release, Windows 10 will have had 4 major releases over the course of 2 years. This indicates that the 6-month release cycle is largely on-target. Whether or not this is a good thing remains to be seen. Quality assurance seems to have dropped off, which is one reason why they likely added the ability to pause updates in RS2. Business applications that were tested on Threshold 1 or Redstone 1 versions may have undocumented issues due to low-level changes in the operating system. Personally, I've seen QuickBooks completely wig out when running TH2 + Office 2016, for instance, yet those same issues disappear when upgrading the OS to RS1 or RS2.

The Insider Program has certainly shaped a lot of the new features and changes in RS2 - for better or worse. There still stands several issues that have either been pushed off to RS3, or completely closed with lack of reason on Microsoft's side. Time will only tell if RS3 becomes a bugfix release for RS2, or if these issues are resolved in point-updates prior to the final RTM updates.

* The March 2017 update for Windows 7 and Windows Server 2008 R2 introduced the same CPU family/stepping detection code, to stop users of new hardware from using these older OS's.

[yourepicfailure]

Pardon me, not in the Microsoft development scene as much.

By:

* The March 2017 update for Windows 7 and Windows Server 2008 R2 introduced the same CPU family/stepping detection code, to stop users of new hardware from using these older OS's.

It does in fact mean what it says?

[hounsell]

RS3 appears to have already started development - I don't have solid proof of this, but I believe there was a single build, either 15044 or 15043 that was labelled RS3. I need someone to help me confirm this or deny it.

Yeh, RS3 development is underway now.

[Zv45Beta]

* The March 2017 update for Windows 7 and Windows Server 2008 R2 introduced the same CPU family/stepping detection code, to stop users of new hardware from using these older OS's.

That's one pretty bad decision they've come up with.
Microsoft has gone crazy since Satya took over the company.

[LuLu]

worst NTOS of all times

[hinatahyuuga]

Worst comment of all times.

[Wheatley]

* The March 2017 update for Windows 7 and Windows Server 2008 R2 introduced the same CPU family/stepping detection code, to stop users of new hardware from using these older OS's.

That's one pretty bad decision they've come up with.
Microsoft has gone crazy since Satya took over the company.

From what I know that doesn't stop you from *using* the OS, but instead just mean that you won't get any new updates, making your system insecure and potentially unstable. Still, a bit silly, but at least somewhat understandable, as it seems weird to me not using an OS intended for the product anyway...

And yes, 10 has it's issues, such as the privacy concerns and UI changes, but it's worth a thought: is it worth it to keep using an OS which is totally unsupported and apparently from what I've heard doesn't always work right on the hardware, or would it be more worth it in the long run to take the time to use whatever tools you need to fix the 10 experience to fit your needs/wants and move on from 7? Either that or use some Linux distro.

And as for the topic at hand, the only thing I hope from RS3 is that it at least refines the current speed and features further, but I'm certainly interested in the new stuff too.

[Bob Pony]

In my personal opinion, I'll say that Windows 10 RS2 and RS3 will be pretty amazing. Hopefully it should mostly remove bugs that are still present in RS1 (Known as the Windows 10 Anniversary Update).

[xelloss]

* The March 2017 update for Windows 7 and Windows Server 2008 R2 introduced the same CPU family/stepping detection code, to stop users of new hardware from using these older OS's.

That's one pretty bad decision they've come up with.
Microsoft has gone crazy since Satya took over the company.

From what I know that doesn't stop you from *using* the OS, but instead just mean that you won't get any new updates, making your system insecure and potentially unstable. Still, a bit silly, but at least somewhat understandable, as it seems weird to me not using an OS intended for the product anyway...

And yes, 10 has it's issues, such as the privacy concerns and UI changes, but it's worth a thought: is it worth it to keep using an OS which is totally unsupported and apparently from what I've heard doesn't always work right on the hardware, or would it be more worth it in the long run to take the time to use whatever tools you need to fix the 10 experience to fit your needs/wants and move on from 7? Either that or use some Linux distro.

And as for the topic at hand, the only thing I hope from RS3 is that it at least refines the current speed and features further, but I'm certainly interested in the new stuff too.

I have supported MS on many things that were criticized by others, including the upgrade nagware, but this is plain stupid.
There are so many legitimate reasons to use Windows 7, including running critical software that is not supported on later versions of Windows. Denying your users the security updates they need isn't just blackmail, but the kind of blackmail that gives you a bad reputation for little returns.

[Zv45Beta]

* The March 2017 update for Windows 7 and Windows Server 2008 R2 introduced the same CPU family/stepping detection code, to stop users of new hardware from using these older OS's.

That's one pretty bad decision they've come up with.
Microsoft has gone crazy since Satya took over the company.

From what I know that doesn't stop you from *using* the OS, but instead just mean that you won't get any new updates, making your system insecure and potentially unstable. Still, a bit silly, but at least somewhat understandable, as it seems weird to me not using an OS intended for the product anyway...

And yes, 10 has it's issues, such as the privacy concerns and UI changes, but it's worth a thought: is it worth it to keep using an OS which is totally unsupported and apparently from what I've heard doesn't always work right on the hardware, or would it be more worth it in the long run to take the time to use whatever tools you need to fix the 10 experience to fit your needs/wants and move on from 7? Either that or use some Linux distro.

And as for the topic at hand, the only thing I hope from RS3 is that it at least refines the current speed and features further, but I'm certainly interested in the new stuff too.

I have supported MS on many things that were criticized by others, including the upgrade nagware, but this is plain stupid.
There are so many legitimate reasons to use Windows 7, including running critical software that is not supported on later versions of Windows. Denying your users the security updates they need isn't just blackmail, but the kind of blackmail that gives you a bad reputation for little returns.

I love Windows 10. I use it on a daily basis on all of my computers that are capable of running it. But some things are just not right... The quality has dropped significantly since even 8.1, and it's not getting better yet... I hope RS3 will change something.

[jimmsta]

Interestingly, updating to RS2 15063 from a slightly older build (15048) with optional features enabled (hyper-v, and Linux on Windows), the UUP updates will include both migration components and all the optional components that are normally not a part of the ESD versions of the OS. I discovered this on one of my machines, and after building an ISO from the contents of that machine's UUP's, I have a slightly different version of the OS. The difference is a handful of packages being added in to the install.wim OS, as well as some IE updates (!?). Kinda odd to see, but not unheard of.

The other odd thing is the fact that one user on the MDL forums managed to get the deduplication components for RS2, yet I do not know of any RS2 Server builds... Anyone know how they could have gotten a hold of such a thing? I verified that the files are legit and from 10.0.15063, so that part is confirmed. What's not confirmed is where they managed to get the files in the first place.

[Wheatley]

I have supported MS on many things that were criticized by others, including the upgrade nagware, but this is plain stupid.

Oh, don't get me wrong, I'm not entirely behind it either. But keep in mind that someone/some organization who truly depends (so not just because of comfort) on software that won't run on anything higher than 7 is likely the sort of user who wouldn't want to be using an unsupported Windows configuration at all. But sure, if a normal user really likes 7/8.1 and someone figures out a way to get updates on the unsupported platforms (maybe applying with dism doesn't check the cpu?), good for you, keep using your favourite OS, I have no problem with it.

But back to my point about incompatible special software, a virtual machine or some type of remote solution is always an option if you need it for that one stubborn program. But then again, if that program controls some specialized (industrial maybe) hardware and as such cannot be used properly inside a VM or remotely, I question the need to be on the newest of the new platform in the first place.

Offtopic Comment

As for the upgrade nagware, I think they crossed a line with it back when it was active. Not giving the user a clear option of saying no without hacks or registry edits is not acceptable in my book. Suggesting is fine, yes, but not having the ability to completely reject said suggestion isn't okay.

[MSUser2013]

Oh, don't get me wrong, I'm not entirely behind it either. But keep in mind that someone/some organization who truly depends (so not just because of comfort) on software that won't run on anything higher than 7 is likely the sort of user who wouldn't want to be using an unsupported Windows configuration at all. But sure, if a normal user really likes 7/8.1 and someone figures out a way to get updates on the unsupported platforms (maybe applying with dism doesn't check the cpu?), good for you, keep using your favourite OS, I have no problem with it.

I'm pretty much on the former situation of legacy software since I have 3 computers running Windows 7 and only one of them is networked since that machine has legacy software that's out of support now but I still use once in a while (including: Movie Maker 2012, Virtual PC 2007, Speakonia, and Windows DVD Maker), Then again I have a whole assortment of retro hardware and I tend to run the OSes that were designed to run on those systems.

Despite what I've said slightly after launch day, I've actually gotten used to Windows 10 now, My family has a total of 4 computers running 10 and they include my dad's gaming rig + his two Surface Pros, and my 2013 Dell Inspiron 13z laptop, my laptop runs Windows 10 1607 just fine and the issues it had were nothing other than what happened back when it ran 8.1; In fact, I plan on building a state of the art computer soon and it will run Windows 10 (Most likely Redstone 2 if that gets released by the time this happens), I'm definitely looking forward to the next wave of Redstone Feature Updates.

-

Let me try to prove this myth everyone's talking about.

* The March 2017 update for Windows 7 and Windows Server 2008 R2 introduced the same CPU family/stepping detection code, to stop users of new hardware from using these older OS's.

I believe this update is supposed to be targeted to users of Kaby Lake CPUs (and possibly AMD's newest equivalent), Because (from what I've heard), Microsoft and Intel have made it clear that the Kaby Lake architecture is designed to run Windows 10, and nothing lower than that, So no, This will most likely not impact users of older hardware.

When in doubt, You may find this article useful:http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/windows-7- ... -gen-cpus/

[Hyoenmadan86]

I believe this update is supposed to be targeted to users of Kaby Lake CPUs (and possibly AMD's newest equivalent), Because (from what I've heard), Microsoft and Intel have made it clear that the Kaby Lake architecture is designed to run Windows 10, and nothing lower than that, So no, This will most likely not impact users of older hardware.

When in doubt, You may find this article useful:http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/windows-7- ... -gen-cpus/

My thought is that Intel will rework their CPU and chipset architecture in a foreseable future, to finally dump the last remnants of the 80's IBM-Compatible architecture, in order to give that occupied silicon a better usage and compete with the upcoming Aarch64. This means x86 will not be IBM-compatible anymore, and any OS expecting an IBM compatible environment will not run at all, just like if you were using PPC, ARM, Alpha, SPARC or MIPS.

So my guess is that this is the first stage to accomplish that goal. Is better warn their customers their software is reaching its hardware support lifecycle, than just remove the remaining bits and stomp the change in their customer faces (talking about Intel ofc).

Also be alert. If is as i'm guessing, probably AMD will follow Intel in this soon.

[jimmsta]

I believe this update is supposed to be targeted to users of Kaby Lake CPUs (and possibly AMD's newest equivalent), Because (from what I've heard), Microsoft and Intel have made it clear that the Kaby Lake architecture is designed to run Windows 10, and nothing lower than that, So no, This will most likely not impact users of older hardware.

When in doubt, You may find this article useful:http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/windows-7- ... -gen-cpus/

My thought is that Intel will rework their CPU and chipset architecture in a foreseable future, to finally dump the last remnants of the 80's IBM-Compatible architecture, in order to give that occupied silicon a better usage and compete with the upcoming Aarch64. This means x86 will not be IBM-compatible anymore, and any OS expecting an IBM compatible environment will not run at all, just like if you were using PPC, ARM, Alpha, SPARC or MIPS.

So my guess is that this is the first stage to accomplish that goal. Is better warn their customers their software is reaching its hardware support lifecycle, than just remove the remaining bits and stomp the change in their customer faces (talking about Intel ofc).

Also be alert. If is as i'm guessing, probably AMD will follow Intel in this soon.

I'm quite certain that most of the old 8/16/32-bit x86 functionality is, and has been emulated in hardware since at least the Pentium III era. IIRC, even the AMD Athlon was based on an Alpha XP core design, which was a complete departure from the x86 design. Effectively, the architecture that runs x86 code is segmented out and isn't a part of the modern x64 ISA.

[Hyoenmadan86]

I'm quite certain that most of the old 8/16/32-bit x86 functionality is, and has been emulated in hardware since at least the Pentium III era. IIRC, even the AMD Athlon was based on an Alpha XP core design, which was a complete departure from the x86 design. Effectively, the architecture that runs x86 code is segmented out and isn't a part of the modern x64 ISA.

I wasn't referring to the x86 "core", but the hardware accessory parts which make which make with that x86 core an "IBM-compatible" PC. Things like the A20 gate, legacy DMA engines, the standard PC IRQ mechanism, the still existent legacy stuff in the LPC bus. Sure, probably chipset and the CPU "interface" emulates these, but probably Intel want to ditch that "wasted" microcode space and silicon for other functions. For Intel is easier to recover microcode and silicon space by ditching these emulated functions, without breaking compatibility with non-system user software. It also saves them testing costs.

[1337]

I'm quite certain that most of the old 8/16/32-bit x86 functionality is, and has been emulated in hardware since at least the Pentium III era. IIRC, even the AMD Athlon was based on an Alpha XP core design, which was a complete departure from the x86 design. Effectively, the architecture that runs x86 code is segmented out and isn't a part of the modern x64 ISA.

I wasn't referring to the x86 "core", but the hardware accessory parts which make which make with that x86 core an "IBM-compatible" PC. Things like the A20 gate, legacy DMA engines, the standard PC IRQ mechanism, the still existent legacy stuff in the LPC bus. Sure, probably chipset and the CPU "interface" emulates these, but probably Intel want to ditch that "wasted" microcode space and silicon for other functions. For Intel is easier to recover microcode and silicon space by ditching these emulated functions, without breaking compatibility with non-system user software. It also saves them testing costs.

...And you think that will change anytime soon?