Windows NT for PowerPC on a Power Mac?

[yntzl]

Hello everyone!

I'm just wondering if it is possible to install and run Windows NT 4.0 for PowerPC natively on a Power Mac? I recently bought a Power Macintosh G3 Blue and White, and I've tested every Apple OS that is possible to run in this machine (from Mac OS 8.5, throught Mac OS X Server v1.0 and at the end Mac OS X Tiger v10.4) and I decided to test other OSs that are not from Apple, beside Linux, I want to try something from Microsoft for different platforms.

So, since I have a PowerPC based Macintosh and there is a Windows NT version for PowerPC, both can understand each other like "Boot Camp for PowerPC"?

[mrpijey]

Unfortunately not, PowerPC equipped Macs doesn't have the regular BIOS that was required, PPC Macs use something called Open Firmware which was completely different and not compatible at all. Boot Camp as you think of it didn't even exist back then. Windows NT for PowerPC only worked on specific IBM-manufactured machines such as the PowerSeries and RS/6000 models. But never on Apple Macs as their sorrounding architecture differed too much. Same main CPU yes, but everything else completely different.

[yntzl]

Unfortunately not, PowerPC equipped Macs doesn't have the regular BIOS that was required, PPC Macs use something called Open Firmware which was completely different and not compatible at all. Boot Camp as you think of it didn't even exist back then. Windows NT for PowerPC only worked on specific IBM-manufactured machines such as the PowerSeries and RS/6000 models. But never on Apple Macs as their sorrounding architecture differed too much. Same main CPU yes, but everything else completely different.

I was aware of Open Firmware but I thought that Windows would boot anyway. So, since it doesn't run nativaly, virtualization is the way to go. NT PPC would run well on QEMU PREP?

[Wheatley]

I don't think that will work, and even if it would it would be horribly slow.

[TheCollector1988]

NT for PPC requires the ARC console bios, which QEMU does not emulate in the PREP implementation it has.

[mrpijey]

Well, for Windows to boot (or any other OS on any other platform) it does need to support the base BIOS system, regardless if it's EFI, OpenBIOS, BIOS, Open Firmware etc.. and Windows NT PPC doesn't support Open Firmware to start with, nor does it support the rest of the architecture.

[The Distractor]

In case anyone wants it, here's a bunch of stuff relating to PPC PReP including a number of ARC floppy images (arc*.dd)

http://ps-2.kev009.com/pccbbs/powerpc/

[z180]

PPC source is on FTP ,no one built it yet.

[Zeta_0114]

Interesting... I never thought that Windows NT was even compiled on PPC.. thank you for the upkeep!

[yntzl]

Interesting... I never thought that Windows NT was even compiled on PPC.. thank you for the upkeep!

Windows NT 3.1 was compiled for x86, DEC Alpha and MIPS, in the version 3.51 was added support for PowerPC. NT supported these architectures up to the version 4.0. Early betas of Windows NT 5.0, officialy called Windows 2000, had support for IA-64 (Intel Itanium) and DEC Alpha, but the retail release was complied only for x86. Windows XP (NT 5.1) was originally compiled for x86 and IA-64, the support for x64 (x86-64) was added in 2003. Windows Vista (NT 6.0) dropped the support for Itanium systems and remained this way until Windows 8 (NT 6.2) when support to ARM was added. The version of Windows 8 that runs in ARM based systems is called Windows RT.

[deBop]

I wonder if you could get it to work with Yaboot? It would be interesting but I'd doubt it would work.

[Wheatley]

I wonder if you could get it to work with Yaboot? It would be interesting but I'd doubt it would work.

I highly doubt that would work

[deBop]

I wonder if you could get it to work with Yaboot? It would be interesting but I'd doubt it would work.

I highly doubt that would work

Yeah, I guess I'm just desperate.

[kinokijuf]

Interesting... I never thought that Windows NT was even compiled on PPC.. thank you for the upkeep!

Windows NT 3.1 was compiled for x86, DEC Alpha and MIPS, in the version 3.51 was added support for PowerPC. NT supported these architectures up to the version 4.0. Early betas of Windows NT 5.0, officialy called Windows 2000, had support for IA-64 (Intel Itanium) and DEC Alpha, but the retail release was complied only for x86. Windows XP (NT 5.1) was originally compiled for x86 and IA-64, the support for x64 (x86-64) was added in 2003. Windows Vista (NT 6.0) dropped the support for Itanium systems and remained this way until Windows 8 (NT 6.2) when support to ARM was added. The version of Windows 8 that runs in ARM based systems is called Windows RT.

It was Windows 8 which dropped support for ia64, not Vista.

[WinPC]

Interesting... I never thought that Windows NT was even compiled on PPC.. thank you for the upkeep!

Windows NT 3.1 was compiled for x86, DEC Alpha and MIPS, in the version 3.51 was added support for PowerPC. NT supported these architectures up to the version 4.0. Early betas of Windows NT 5.0, officialy called Windows 2000, had support for IA-64 (Intel Itanium) and DEC Alpha, but the retail release was complied only for x86. Windows XP (NT 5.1) was originally compiled for x86 and IA-64, the support for x64 (x86-64) was added in 2003. Windows Vista (NT 6.0) dropped the support for Itanium systems and remained this way until Windows 8 (NT 6.2) when support to ARM was added. The version of Windows 8 that runs in ARM based systems is called Windows RT.

It was Windows 8 which dropped support for ia64, not Vista.

Here is some further information on the matter from Wikipedia's page:

With the introduction of the Intel Itanium architecture (IA-64), Microsoft released new versions of Windows to support it. Itanium versions of Windows XP and Windows Server 2003 were released at the same time as their mainstream x86 counterparts. Windows XP 64-Bit Edition, released in 2005, is the last Windows client operating systems to support Itanium. Windows Server line continued to support this platform until Windows Server 2012; Windows Server 2008 R2 is the last Windows operating system to support Itanium architecture.

According to this page, no client operating systems later than Windows XP supported the Intel Itanium architecture, while the Windows Server line continued supporting it as recently as Windows Server 2008 R2, whereas support was dropped entirely starting with Windows Server 2012.

[binaryone]

I was wondering if there are any Windows software available for the PPC even you are able to install on a PowerMac..?

[Gligar13]

I was wondering if there are any Windows software available for the PPC even you are able to install on a PowerMac..?

Little to none. It will run 16 bit Windows apps though in NTVDM. From what I know there ARE compilers available (Visual C++ Risc Edition 4.0) but because PowerPC hardware that WILL run nt is so obscure, I doubt you will find much software unless someone emulates it (MIPS NT4)

[3155ffGd]

Finding stuff for PowerPC is quite a bit harder than MIPS because it was only supported for such a short time.

There should be IE3 and WinImage at least, and of course the Resource Kit. Other than that, nothing comes to my mind right now.

[wbyte]

Subject: Windows NT for PowerPC on a Power Mac?

Interesting... I never thought that Windows NT was even compiled on PPC.. thank you for the upkeep!

... in the version 3.51 was added support for PowerPC. ...

NT PowerPC version was introduced with 3.5
I still have the original CDs from IBM

[zde]

NT PowerPC version was introduced with 3.5
I still have the original CDs from IBM

That's really interesting. Have you tried to look on what's inside? Could, maybe, upload these?

E.g. you can find Microsoft Works 2006 DVD which has clearly seen message "Microsoft Works 8.5" printed on it (like here and yes, it's real, genuine DVD from Microsoft)... only if you would try to install it - you will find out "Microsoft Works 8.0" installed on your system instead.

Maybe 3.5 PPC WinNT CDs are similar but in opposite direction? Coz Microsoft's David Thompson clearly said "we basically sat around for 9 months fixing bugs while we waited for IBM to finish the Power PC hardware" - and THAT is why Windows NT 3.51 even exist.

P.S. Or maybe it's some kind of beta?

[wbyte]

]

NT PowerPC version was introduced with 3.5
I still have the original CDs from IBM

That's really interesting. Have you tried to look on what's inside? Could, maybe, upload these?

E.g. you can find Microsoft Works 2006 DVD which has clearly seen message "Microsoft Works 8.5" printed on it (like here and yes, it's real, genuine DVD from Microsoft)... only if you would try to install it - you will find out "Microsoft Works 8.0" installed on your system instead.

Maybe 3.5 PPC WinNT CDs are similar but in opposite direction? Coz Microsoft's David Thompson clearly said "we basically sat around for 9 months fixing bugs while we waited for IBM to finish the Power PC hardware" - and THAT is why Windows NT 3.51 even exist.

P.S. Or maybe it's some kind of beta?

AFAIR it's a complete release, not a beta: https://www.betaarchive.com/imageupload ... .24506.JPG

I tried to install it long time ago, but it has support for few IBM models only and could not run on Moto's powerstack.
In 2017 I tried to upload the release, but something went wrong (with my cd dump or scans - can't remember correctly).
Need to get the old cds again. There were 3.51 powerpc edition, device driver dev. kit as well as Motorola C/C++ compiler for nt/powerpc