Windows NT for PowerPC on a Power Mac?

Discuss Windows 2000, NT, XP and Windows Server 2000, 2003, SBS 2003.
Post Reply
yntzl
User avatar
Donator
Posts: 46
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2013 3:43 pm

Windows NT for PowerPC on a Power Mac?

Post by yntzl »

Hello everyone!

I'm just wondering if it is possible to install and run Windows NT 4.0 for PowerPC natively on a Power Mac? I recently bought a Power Macintosh G3 Blue and White, and I've tested every Apple OS that is possible to run in this machine (from Mac OS 8.5, throught Mac OS X Server v1.0 and at the end Mac OS X Tiger v10.4) and I decided to test other OSs that are not from Apple, beside Linux, I want to try something from Microsoft for different platforms.

So, since I have a PowerPC based Macintosh and there is a Windows NT version for PowerPC, both can understand each other like "Boot Camp for PowerPC"?
Last edited by yntzl on Thu Jul 18, 2013 2:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

mrpijey
User avatar
Administrator
Posts: 8272
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2008 5:28 pm
Contact:

Re: Windows NT for PowerPC on a Power Mac?

Post by mrpijey »

Unfortunately not, PowerPC equipped Macs doesn't have the regular BIOS that was required, PPC Macs use something called Open Firmware which was completely different and not compatible at all. Boot Camp as you think of it didn't even exist back then. Windows NT for PowerPC only worked on specific IBM-manufactured machines such as the PowerSeries and RS/6000 models. But never on Apple Macs as their sorrounding architecture differed too much. Same main CPU yes, but everything else completely different.
Image
Official guidelines: The Definitive Guide to BetaArchive :: Abandonware
Channels: Discord :: Twitter

yntzl
User avatar
Donator
Posts: 46
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2013 3:43 pm

Re: Windows NT for PowerPC on a Power Mac?

Post by yntzl »

mrpijey wrote:Unfortunately not, PowerPC equipped Macs doesn't have the regular BIOS that was required, PPC Macs use something called Open Firmware which was completely different and not compatible at all. Boot Camp as you think of it didn't even exist back then. Windows NT for PowerPC only worked on specific IBM-manufactured machines such as the PowerSeries and RS/6000 models. But never on Apple Macs as their sorrounding architecture differed too much. Same main CPU yes, but everything else completely different.
I was aware of Open Firmware but I thought that Windows would boot anyway. So, since it doesn't run nativaly, virtualization is the way to go. NT PPC would run well on QEMU PREP?

Wheatley
User avatar
Donator
Posts: 1839
Joined: Thu Oct 25, 2012 8:19 pm
Location: shell32.dll

Re: Windows NT for PowerPC on a Power Mac?

Post by Wheatley »

I don't think that will work, and even if it would it would be horribly slow.
Windows Defender for great justice! Bugs are an international trading company. I need to defeat the anti-debugging and obfuscation methods. It wasn't for Intel's absurd ability to load in ie6. Why even waste time with people in an envelope?

TheCollector1988
User avatar
Donator
Posts: 3548
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2011 12:11 am
Location: Italy
Contact:

Re: Windows NT for PowerPC on a Power Mac?

Post by TheCollector1988 »

NT for PPC requires the ARC console bios, which QEMU does not emulate in the PREP implementation it has.

mrpijey
User avatar
Administrator
Posts: 8272
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2008 5:28 pm
Contact:

Re: Windows NT for PowerPC on a Power Mac?

Post by mrpijey »

Well, for Windows to boot (or any other OS on any other platform) it does need to support the base BIOS system, regardless if it's EFI, OpenBIOS, BIOS, Open Firmware etc.. and Windows NT PPC doesn't support Open Firmware to start with, nor does it support the rest of the architecture.
Image
Official guidelines: The Definitive Guide to BetaArchive :: Abandonware
Channels: Discord :: Twitter

The Distractor

Re: Windows NT for PowerPC on a Power Mac?

Post by The Distractor »

In case anyone wants it, here's a bunch of stuff relating to PPC PReP including a number of ARC floppy images (arc*.dd)

http://ps-2.kev009.com/pccbbs/powerpc/

z180
Donator
Posts: 982
Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2010 5:10 pm
Location: In front of my Toughbook

Re: Windows NT for PowerPC on a Power Mac?

Post by z180 »

PPC source is on FTP ,no one built it yet.
Stephen Elop….I curse you, that after your death your soul will be forever trapped in the sourcecode of Windows and one day Microsoft will fall because of that virus code!

Zeta_0114
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue Jul 16, 2013 3:35 am

Re: Windows NT for PowerPC on a Power Mac?

Post by Zeta_0114 »

Interesting... I never thought that Windows NT was even compiled on PPC.. thank you for the upkeep!
Image

yntzl
User avatar
Donator
Posts: 46
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2013 3:43 pm

Re: Windows NT for PowerPC on a Power Mac?

Post by yntzl »

Zeta_0114 wrote:Interesting... I never thought that Windows NT was even compiled on PPC.. thank you for the upkeep!
Windows NT 3.1 was compiled for x86, DEC Alpha and MIPS, in the version 3.51 was added support for PowerPC. NT supported these architectures up to the version 4.0. Early betas of Windows NT 5.0, officialy called Windows 2000, had support for IA-64 (Intel Itanium) and DEC Alpha, but the retail release was complied only for x86. Windows XP (NT 5.1) was originally compiled for x86 and IA-64, the support for x64 (x86-64) was added in 2003. Windows Vista (NT 6.0) dropped the support for Itanium systems and remained this way until Windows 8 (NT 6.2) when support to ARM was added. The version of Windows 8 that runs in ARM based systems is called Windows RT. :)

deBop
FTP Access
Posts: 135
Joined: Sun Jul 21, 2013 11:35 pm

Re: Windows NT for PowerPC on a Power Mac?

Post by deBop »

I wonder if you could get it to work with Yaboot? It would be interesting but I'd doubt it would work.

Wheatley
User avatar
Donator
Posts: 1839
Joined: Thu Oct 25, 2012 8:19 pm
Location: shell32.dll

Re: Windows NT for PowerPC on a Power Mac?

Post by Wheatley »

deBop wrote:I wonder if you could get it to work with Yaboot? It would be interesting but I'd doubt it would work.
I highly doubt that would work :P
Windows Defender for great justice! Bugs are an international trading company. I need to defeat the anti-debugging and obfuscation methods. It wasn't for Intel's absurd ability to load in ie6. Why even waste time with people in an envelope?

deBop
FTP Access
Posts: 135
Joined: Sun Jul 21, 2013 11:35 pm

Re: Windows NT for PowerPC on a Power Mac?

Post by deBop »

Wheatley wrote:
deBop wrote:I wonder if you could get it to work with Yaboot? It would be interesting but I'd doubt it would work.
I highly doubt that would work :P
Yeah, I guess I'm just desperate. :mrgreen:

kinokijuf
FTP Access
Posts: 216
Joined: Mon May 09, 2011 5:43 pm
Location: Poland

Re: Windows NT for PowerPC on a Power Mac?

Post by kinokijuf »

yntzl wrote:
Zeta_0114 wrote:Interesting... I never thought that Windows NT was even compiled on PPC.. thank you for the upkeep!
Windows NT 3.1 was compiled for x86, DEC Alpha and MIPS, in the version 3.51 was added support for PowerPC. NT supported these architectures up to the version 4.0. Early betas of Windows NT 5.0, officialy called Windows 2000, had support for IA-64 (Intel Itanium) and DEC Alpha, but the retail release was complied only for x86. Windows XP (NT 5.1) was originally compiled for x86 and IA-64, the support for x64 (x86-64) was added in 2003. Windows Vista (NT 6.0) dropped the support for Itanium systems and remained this way until Windows 8 (NT 6.2) when support to ARM was added. The version of Windows 8 that runs in ARM based systems is called Windows RT. :)
It was Windows 8 which dropped support for ia64, not Vista.
Nt 3.50: GOOD! Nt 3.51: THIS SHOULD BE A SERVICE PACK. Nt 4: NO COMMENT. Windows 2000: GREAT! Windows XP: BAD! Windows Vista: GREAT! Windows 7: SO-SO. Windows 8: BAD!
See? There’s no pattern here. I’m not interested in your conspiracy theories.

WinPC

Re: Windows NT for PowerPC on a Power Mac?

Post by WinPC »

kinokijuf wrote:
yntzl wrote:
Zeta_0114 wrote:Interesting... I never thought that Windows NT was even compiled on PPC.. thank you for the upkeep!
Windows NT 3.1 was compiled for x86, DEC Alpha and MIPS, in the version 3.51 was added support for PowerPC. NT supported these architectures up to the version 4.0. Early betas of Windows NT 5.0, officialy called Windows 2000, had support for IA-64 (Intel Itanium) and DEC Alpha, but the retail release was complied only for x86. Windows XP (NT 5.1) was originally compiled for x86 and IA-64, the support for x64 (x86-64) was added in 2003. Windows Vista (NT 6.0) dropped the support for Itanium systems and remained this way until Windows 8 (NT 6.2) when support to ARM was added. The version of Windows 8 that runs in ARM based systems is called Windows RT. :)
It was Windows 8 which dropped support for ia64, not Vista.
Here is some further information on the matter from Wikipedia's page:
With the introduction of the Intel Itanium architecture (IA-64), Microsoft released new versions of Windows to support it. Itanium versions of Windows XP and Windows Server 2003 were released at the same time as their mainstream x86 counterparts. Windows XP 64-Bit Edition, released in 2005, is the last Windows client operating systems to support Itanium. Windows Server line continued to support this platform until Windows Server 2012; Windows Server 2008 R2 is the last Windows operating system to support Itanium architecture.
According to this page, no client operating systems later than Windows XP supported the Intel Itanium architecture, while the Windows Server line continued supporting it as recently as Windows Server 2008 R2, whereas support was dropped entirely starting with Windows Server 2012.

binaryone
FTP Access
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2013 4:25 pm

Re: Windows NT for PowerPC on a Power Mac?

Post by binaryone »

I was wondering if there are any Windows software available for the PPC even you are able to install on a PowerMac..?

Gligar13
FTP Access
Posts: 94
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2012 7:39 am

Re: Windows NT for PowerPC on a Power Mac?

Post by Gligar13 »

binaryone wrote:I was wondering if there are any Windows software available for the PPC even you are able to install on a PowerMac..?
Little to none. It will run 16 bit Windows apps though in NTVDM. From what I know there ARE compilers available (Visual C++ Risc Edition 4.0) but because PowerPC hardware that WILL run nt is so obscure, I doubt you will find much software unless someone emulates it (MIPS NT4)

3155ffGd
User avatar
FTP Access
Posts: 391
Joined: Wed May 02, 2012 12:57 am

Re: Windows NT for PowerPC on a Power Mac?

Post by 3155ffGd »

Finding stuff for PowerPC is quite a bit harder than MIPS because it was only supported for such a short time.

There should be IE3 and WinImage at least, and of course the Resource Kit. Other than that, nothing comes to my mind right now.

wbyte
User avatar
Donator
Posts: 150
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 8:40 pm

Re: Windows NT for PowerPC on a Power Mac?

Post by wbyte »

Subject: Windows NT for PowerPC on a Power Mac?
yntzl wrote:
Zeta_0114 wrote:Interesting... I never thought that Windows NT was even compiled on PPC.. thank you for the upkeep!
... in the version 3.51 was added support for PowerPC. ...
NT PowerPC version was introduced with 3.5
I still have the original CDs from IBM

Code: Select all

SYSTEM V/68 Release 3.0  Version 1-Rev_A  M68020
sysV68
Copyright (c) 1984 AT&T
Copyright (c) 1985 Motorola, Inc.
All Rights Reserved
[/size]

zde
Posts: 35
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2019 7:31 pm

Re: Windows NT for PowerPC on a Power Mac?

Post by zde »

wbyte wrote:NT PowerPC version was introduced with 3.5
I still have the original CDs from IBM
That's really interesting. Have you tried to look on what's inside? Could, maybe, upload these?

E.g. you can find Microsoft Works 2006 DVD which has clearly seen message "Microsoft Works 8.5" printed on it (like here and yes, it's real, genuine DVD from Microsoft)... only if you would try to install it - you will find out "Microsoft Works 8.0" installed on your system instead.

Maybe 3.5 PPC WinNT CDs are similar but in opposite direction? Coz Microsoft's David Thompson clearly said "we basically sat around for 9 months fixing bugs while we waited for IBM to finish the Power PC hardware" - and THAT is why Windows NT 3.51 even exist.

P.S. Or maybe it's some kind of beta?

wbyte
User avatar
Donator
Posts: 150
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 8:40 pm

Re: Windows NT for PowerPC on a Power Mac?

Post by wbyte »

]
zde wrote:
wbyte wrote:NT PowerPC version was introduced with 3.5
I still have the original CDs from IBM
That's really interesting. Have you tried to look on what's inside? Could, maybe, upload these?

E.g. you can find Microsoft Works 2006 DVD which has clearly seen message "Microsoft Works 8.5" printed on it (like here and yes, it's real, genuine DVD from Microsoft)... only if you would try to install it - you will find out "Microsoft Works 8.0" installed on your system instead.

Maybe 3.5 PPC WinNT CDs are similar but in opposite direction? Coz Microsoft's David Thompson clearly said "we basically sat around for 9 months fixing bugs while we waited for IBM to finish the Power PC hardware" - and THAT is why Windows NT 3.51 even exist.

P.S. Or maybe it's some kind of beta?
AFAIR it's a complete release, not a beta: https://www.betaarchive.com/imageupload ... .24506.JPG

I tried to install it long time ago, but it has support for few IBM models only and could not run on Moto's powerstack.
In 2017 I tried to upload the release, but something went wrong (with my cd dump or scans - can't remember correctly).
Need to get the old cds again. There were 3.51 powerpc edition, device driver dev. kit as well as Motorola C/C++ compiler for nt/powerpc

Code: Select all

SYSTEM V/68 Release 3.0  Version 1-Rev_A  M68020
sysV68
Copyright (c) 1984 AT&T
Copyright (c) 1985 Motorola, Inc.
All Rights Reserved
[/size]

Post Reply