KKnD 1 & 2 - Alpha & Beta discussion

Discuss any beta and abandonware games.
Hallfiry
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KKnD 1 & 2 - Alpha & Beta discussion

Post by Hallfiry »

Image

While downloading old polish magazine CDs today, I found a demo of KKND2. At first I thought it was probably the 3 missions demo, but then I noticed that the main menu looked different and the cursors were also not the final ones. Also, the demo is like 100mb and the normal demos were 10mb or 15mb for the 3 missions demo. The normal demos are from something like May and my demo is from February (My German retail version is dated to June).

KKND 2 Demos:
(added build numers as they are extrapolated from pk version and the only "known" build number #145)

Code: Select all

#145 Nov 24, 1997, 16:00:59, Unprotected, pk version 0x91, FMV,    No Music,    Human Mission
#321 Feb 20, 1998, 14:15:34, Unprotected, pk version 0x41, FMV,    Promo Music, Three Missions
#543 Apr 08, 1998, 00:35:52, Protected,   pk version 0x1F, FMV,    Promo Music, Robo Mission
#549 May 13, 1998, 17:59:06, Protected,   pk version 0x2F, No FMV, No Music,    Robo Mission   (kknd2_demo1)
#550 May 18, 1998, 14:28:26, Protected,   pk version 0x30, No FMV, No Music,    Human Mission  (kknd2_demo3)
#550 May 18, 1998, 14:35:04, Protected,   pk version 0x30, No FMV, No Music,    Mutant Mission (kknd2_demo2)
#550 May 18, 1998, 15:44:12, Protected,   pk version 0x30, No FMV, No Music,    Three Missions
#641 Jun 11, 1998, 14:44:06, Protected,   pk version 0x81, FMV,    Music,       Mutant Mission (German Demo)
German retail version for comparison:
#648 Jun 17, 1998, 15:07:54, Protected,   pk version 0x88, FMV   , Music   ,    All Missions
To sum it up: It seems like I've found the Beta demo that was mentioned by this German magazine ad (Referencing PC Action 5/98):

Image

Special thing that I've found:
The Worm is replaced with a Ballista Tower:
Image

Known issues:
Installing another demo after the beta demo, overwrites the registry and sets the CD Path to the windows temp folder.
=> game can't find files
=> game crashes on start up


Trivia:
KKnD 2 is my favourite game of all time.

EDIT2:
Some name differences:

Code: Select all

? unknown
o Name
h Heavy name change
x Different unit

Beta                Change  Retail

Moo Cow                 ?   ???
Captive                 ?   ???
Prisoner                ?   ???

Machine Gunner              Machine Gunner
Grenadier                   Grenadier
Flamer                      Flamer
Rocketeer                   Rocketeer
Laser Rifleman          o   Laser Trooper
Technician                  Technician
Kamikaze                    Kamikaze

Berzerker                   Berzerker
Rioter                      Rioter
Pyromaniac                  Pyromaniac
Homing Bazookoid            Homing Bazookoid
Spirit Archer               Spirit Archer
Mekanik                     Mekanik
Martyr                      Martyr
Bechamel                h   Scourge Demon (?)

Seeder                      Seeder
Pod Launcher                Pod Launcher
Weed Killer                 Weed Killer
Selective Pollinator    n   Spore Missile
De seeder               n   Sterilizer
Systech                     Systech
Michaelangelo               Michaelangelo

Outpost                     Outpost
Clanhall                o   Clan Hall
Barn                        Barn

Barracks                    Barracks
Warrior Hall                Warrior Hall
Microunit Factory           Microunit Factory

Machine Shop                Machine Shop
Beast Enclosure             Beast Enclosure
Macrounit Factory           Macrounit Factory

Armoury                 o   Armory
Armoury                 h   Forge
Weapon Control              Weapon Control

Power Station               Power Station
Power Plant                 Power Plant
Power Unit                  Power Unit

Drill Rig                   Drill Rig
Derrick                     Derrick
Oilbot                      Oilbot

Solar Exchanger         h   Thermal Exchanger
Gas Converter           h   Big Pig
Windmill Processor      h   Wind Turbine

Solar Collector             Solar Collector
Gas Pen                 h   Pig Pen
Windmill                    Windmill

Repair Bay                  Repair Bay
Healing Tent                Healing Tent
Maintenance Depot           Maintenance Depot

Research Lab                Research Lab
Alchemy Hall                Alchemy Hall
Technostudy                 Technostudy

Light Tower             h   Sentry Gun
Distance Seeder             Distance Seeder
Grapeshot Cannon        h   Kneecapper

Cannon Tower                Cannon Tower
Ballista Tower          x   The Worm
Pod Cannon                  Pod Cannon

AA Tower                o   Anti-Aircraft Tower
Bazooka Battery             Bazooka Battery
Solar Intensifier           Solar Intensifier

Laser Destroyer         o   Laser Destroyer Tower
Touch of Death              Touch of Death
Watchful Eye            h   Lightning Generator


Mobile Outpost              Mobile Outpost
Mobile Clanhall         o   Mobile Clan Hall
Mobile Barn                 Mobile Barn

Mobile Drill Rig            Mobile Drill Rig
Mobile Derrick              Mobile Derrick
Mobile Oilbot               Mobile Oilbot

Oil Tanker                  Oil Tanker
Bull Ant Tanker             Bull Ant Tanker
Oil Tankeroid               Oil Tankeroid

Dirt Bike                   Dirt Bike
ATV                         ATV
Hover Buggy                 Hover Buggy
Anaconda Tank               Anaconda Tank
Barrage Craft               Barrage Craft
Dual Cannon Tank        h   Enforcer
Juggernaut              o   Juggernaught

Dire Wolf                   Dire Wolf
Pit Scorpion                Pit Scorpion
Crinoid                     Crinoid
War Mastodon                War Mastodon
Death Hippo                 Death Hippo
Missile Crab                Missile Crab
Mega Bettle                 Mega Beetle

Patrolbot                   Patrolbot
Responsebot                 Responsebot
Radiator                    Radiator
Tankbot                     Tankbot
Doom Dome                   Doom Dome
Cauteriser                  Cauteriser
Grim Reaper                 Grim Reaper

Orville Fighter             Orville Fighter
Pteranodon                  Pteranodon
AG-Responsebot Fighter      AG-Responsebot Fighter

Wilbur Bomber               Wilbur Bomber
Wasp Bomber                 Wasp Bomber
Crop Duster Bomber          Crop Duster Bomber

Transport Chopper       h   Airlifter
Mutant Blimp            h   Floater
Transport Dome              Transport Dome

Scary Wall              h   Barricade
Spirit Wall             h   Skeletal Wall
Power Wall              h   Boundary Fence

High Tech Wall          h   Force Wall
High Tech Wall          h   Thunder Fence
High Tech Wall          h   Bugzapper

The Jupitor II          h   Gemini XXI
Gort                        Gort
Sentinel Droid              Sentinel Droid
Mechanoid                   Mechanoid

Tech Bunker                 Tech Bunker
Detention Centre        ?   ???

Hut                         Hut
Temple                  ?   Evolved Altar of the Scourge (?)
Plasma Tank             h   Railgun Tank
Dropship                    Dropship

EDIT:

Some alpha shots:
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Last edited by Hallfiry on Tue Nov 25, 2014 9:05 pm, edited 12 times in total.

MrFlibble
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Re: KKnD 2: Krossfire - Beta Demo

Post by MrFlibble »

Nice! A friend and classmate of mine had the first game, and I remember we watched the intro cinematic at his birthday party :) At some point he borrowed the CD to me but I couldn't run the game for some reason I honestly don't know. I wasn't very computer savvy back then, so I didn't experiment with the game any further after it made me reboot my PC instead of running.

Anyhoo, I've got this idea of making a list of games that have public betas released as demo versions, but haven't had time to actually do anything in that direction yet.

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Re: KKnD 2: Krossfire - Beta Demo

Post by Atomfire »

From the screenshot's it looks like a C&C type of game. I may have to try this out.

Hallfiry
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Re: KKnD 2: Krossfire - Beta Demo

Post by Hallfiry »

Atomfire wrote:From the screenshot's it looks like a C&C type of game. I may have to try this out.
KKnD 1 was very C&C-like. The press often criticized it because of that similarity.
I think in KKnD 2, they wanted to really be different from C&C and in my opinion they managed to do that quite well.

Also: KKnD 1 has an early prerelease demo, too. It's from November 1996 (Release was March 1997).

An interesting string from the exe of that demo: "I hope this is the last version of the demo..."

Image
Image

Hallfiry
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Re: KKnD 2: Krossfire - Beta Demo

Post by Hallfiry »

I found a German Demo of KKND 2 that predates the German retail version by 6 days :P
=> Updated the first post.

Dezzo4
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Re: KKnD 2: Krossfire - Beta Demo

Post by Dezzo4 »

Will this run on a Pentium III 500MHz I may have around? How much RAM does it want?

Looks like another RTS I get to try out...
Mac OS 6, 7.0/7.1, 9.2.2, 10.2, 10.4, iOS 3 to iOS 6, Win 2K SP4, Ubuntu 10.04LTS

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Re: KKnD 2: Krossfire - Beta Demo

Post by lordofdepths »

Of course, I remember when I played it on my old machine - P166 with 32 megs of RAM. Its requirements are on level of: P133, 16 MB RAM. So your PC will do just fine :)

Hallfiry
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Re: KKnD 2: Krossfire - Beta Demo

Post by Hallfiry »

I'm now doing some research on the first KKnD 2 beta demo, since it's not encrypted like the other versions.
These are my first results (talking about Kknd2.exe) :

The main menu table begins at 0xA4078. It has 8 entries, each of them 36 bytes long (4byte integers, blah).
Setting the "0x25" bytes (offset 0x14 in each entry, only three are actually 0x25) enables the menu buttons for unit editor, custom missions and multiplayer.
To play a custom game you have to choose TCP/IP and add a CPU Player. Unfortunately there are no multiplayer maps, so we can't test the full gameplay, yet. (I'm working on that!)

Image

The unit table starts at offset 0xBAA10. It has 133 entries, each 272 bytes long. Each entry consists of 4-byte integers that specify certain values of the unit/building. Some that I could identify:

Code: Select all

0x00: Unit ID?
0x04: Unit Script? (Building, Tower, Infantry, Transport, Tank,...)
0x08: Name offset
0x0C: Cost
0x10: Hit Points
0x14: Speed
[...]
0x20: View Range
0x24: Weapon Range
0x28: Accuracy
[...]
0x60: Cannon Type (Rotatable part on top of a tower or tank. 00 00 00 00 means no cannon. The cannon itself chooses the damage type, fire rate and damage, but the range seems to be saved in the unit table entry.)
0x64: Attack type if not a cannon (Machine gun, laser, arrow,...)
The prototype attachment table begins at offset 0x9FBE0 and has 41 entries, each 18 bytes long. It's consists of three 4-byte integers followed by eight 2-byte words (not sure about the 2-byte words though).
0x04 (int): Cannon type like above.

With this knowledge you can put any cannon on any unit. For example I put the ballista from the (beta) Ballista Tower onto the Light Tower of the survivors:
Image

Or how about a Jugger Tower? :D
Image

Also funny: L.T.A. Bots and Artillery Towers.
Image
Last edited by Hallfiry on Mon Nov 30, 2015 7:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

widdy
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Re: KKnD 2: Krossfire - Beta Demo

Post by widdy »

Awesome to see someone else who likes the KKND franchise. :)
The first game I played was on the PSX and later on I bought it for the PC. Good times.

Ps:
Hallo ;)

Hallfiry
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Re: KKnD 2: Krossfire - Beta Demo

Post by Hallfiry »

I checked the prerelease(?) demo of KKnD Xtreme and noticed that the units cfg file has some nice info about the unit configurations:

Code: Select all

; A word of warning when specifying damage stats for a unit:
; many units share the same projectile/bullet information, so
; will deal the same damage as that of the last one specified
; in this file. In the default units.cfg supplied, you can be
; pretty sure that units that deal identical damage values
; are using the same projectile information.

; Also you need to make sure that all machines involved in the
; game have been started using the -stats option and are using
; identical .CFG files otherwise the network game WILL hang.
; You have been warned :)

; Production time (prod) is in seconds.
; Speed is approximately in pixels per second.
; Reload times are in sixtieths of a second.
; Volley size is in projectiles (strangely enough).
;
;                         volley
;                 reload     |
;                  .-+-------+---------.
;      reload2     | |                 |
; b----------------b-+-b---b---b---b---b-------------------b
;
; Each volley is basically a burst of n bullets.  The time between each of
; these bullets is given in the reload statistic.  The reload2 statistic
; is used for the time between each burst of bullets.

; Therefore a volley = 10, reload = 1 and reload2 = 100 would fire ten
; bullets in each burst.  Each of these bullets would have a single frame
; (1/60th of a second) between them.  Once ten bullets had been fired, the
; unit wouldn't fire for another 100 frames. 
                                           
; PLEASE NOTE:  Units without turrets fire at a constant rate, and thus
;               do not use reload2 or volley. Setting them has no effect.

; Turn speed (tspeed) is approximately in quarter turns per second.
; Range is in pixels.
; Accuracy (acc) is a percentage.
; i-dmg is infantry damage.
; v-dmg is vehicle damage.
; b-dmg is building damage.

; Unit name, cost, prod, hitpts, speed, reload, reload2, volley, tspeed, range, acc, i-dmg, v-dmg, b-dmg
I'm pretty sure, KKnD 2 handles it very similar. I will do more research on that topic this weekend.
Last edited by Hallfiry on Thu Oct 10, 2013 6:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

nobigthing
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Re: KKnD 2: Krossfire - Beta Demo

Post by nobigthing »

Hey everyone

Sorry for bumping up an old topic. I'm trying to get KKnD to work on my PC and while the game runs, it does so with some annoying graphical issues.

KKnD 1 (the Extreme version) runs the best, but the fog of war is all pink-purpleish, and the buildings and units don't have their correct colors. It's playable, but annoying.

KKnD Krossfire does run, but the screen flickers constantly, making it barely playable at all.

I'm just running this on Windows 7 but I've tried setting the comptability mode to W95, 98, 2K, Vista, etc, and nothing solves the problem.

Can anyone help me with this? I really wanna enjoy these great games again :)
Thanks a lot.

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Re: KKnD 2: Krossfire - Beta Demo

Post by Hallfiry »

nobigthing wrote:Hey everyone
Sorry for bumping up an old topic. I'm trying to get KKnD to work on my PC and while the game runs, it does so with some annoying graphical issues.

KKnD 1 (the Extreme version) runs the best, but the fog of war is all pink-purpleish, and the buildings and units don't have their correct colors. It's playable, but annoying.

KKnD Krossfire does run, but the screen flickers constantly, making it barely playable at all.

I'm just running this on Windows 7 but I've tried setting the comptability mode to W95, 98, 2K, Vista, etc, and nothing solves the problem.

Can anyone help me with this? I really wanna enjoy these great games again :)
Thanks a lot.
Since I don't use Windows 7 and thus don't know what the problem might be, so I suggest that you setup a VM with Windows 98SE. All KKnD games should be natively playable on that machine.

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Re: KKnD 2: Krossfire - Beta Demo

Post by nobigthing »

Okay, now I don't know much about Virtual Machines but I just googled it and found some links which appear to be useful. I will check them out, and thank you heartily for the advice!

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Re: KKnD 2: Krossfire - Beta Demo

Post by MrFlibble »


Hallfiry
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Re: KKnD 2: Krossfire - Beta Demo

Post by Hallfiry »

Finally some KKnD 2 Beta news. Abandonware-Magazines.org uplaoded the April/1998 issue of Joystick that features a KKnD 2 preview.
The first page isn't very interesting, but second is:

1. The old "brushed steel" interface. The map window border is buggy.
2. A KKnD 1 style briefing screen (actually identical with the KKnD 1 survivors briefing screen) with an earlier version of the male mutant narrator. The 3D-briefing window at the bottom is buggy, by not removing the map info from the camapign screen. The 3D-briefing window was not included in the final version of KKnD 2.

Image

Image

filazaf
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Re: KKnD 2: Krossfire - Beta Demo

Post by filazaf »

Hello guys, i'm looking for very early version of KKnD2 (not KKnD2: KrossFire) i have it on demo disc from I/O magazine or something like that.
It was called KKnD, but looking like KKnD Extreme + new unit(scrab-> oil tanker for evolued) and special abilites, like relocating bulding.
Can you help me find it?

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Re: KKnD 2: Krossfire - Beta Demo

Post by Hallfiry »

filazaf wrote:Hello guys, i'm looking for very early version of KKnD2 (not KKnD2: KrossFire) i have it on demo disc from I/O magazine or something like that.
It was called KKnD, but looking like KKnD Extreme + new unit(scrab-> oil tanker for evolued) and special abilites, like relocating bulding.
Can you help me find it?

Ok, this sounds interesting, so let's get a couple of things straight:
1.) "KKnD2" IS "KKnD Krossfire". The name was given to it during late development, according to the dev diary that was published by HotMagma back in 1998. [edit] Now that I read you post again, I realize that you know that.

2.) You mean you one had a demo of a game between KKnD Xtreme and KKnD 2? This is (ignoring the fact that I never heard of it) very likely, because I know that there is still one press beta missing in my collection and KKnD Xtreme and early KKnD2 share quite a lot of things (certain assets, the autorun, certain file format details, etc.).

3.) It would be useful to know where you are from and what magazines you had back in these days. Your demo sounds like it's from late 1997. As you may know, that the currently earliest KKnD2 version is from February 1998 and (which you don't know) features descriptions of all missions of the final version that came out half a year later. KKnD Xtreme is from August 1997, so, we can conclude that your version is somewhere between August 1997 and February 1998, which again narrows down magazines to roughly October 1997 to May/June 1998.


---

(Not related to the above mentioned stuff) Funny KKnD 2 development photo:
Image

Hallfiry
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Re: KKnD 2: Krossfire - Beta Demo

Post by Hallfiry »

For those who are interested in KKnD2's beta, I've quickly screenshotted all menus in the beta that feature beta icons:
Image

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Re: KKnD 2: Krossfire - Beta Demo

Post by Hallfiry »

Finally it's taking an interesting twist:

I've just found KKnD: Infiltrator confirmed (as cancelled). The game was basically about you driving into enemy territory with your dirtbike to do missions. I think it's somewhere between NFSU and Starcraft Ghost. More info hopefully coming soon :)

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Re: KKnD 2: Krossfire - Beta Demo

Post by Hallfiry »

Slowly stuff is getting more interesting. After extracting all images from the KKnD1 prerelease demo we (a friend of mine and I) found a number of unused icons and one full sprite set:
Image
Icons:
Survivors Command Unit, Evolved Command Unit
Survivors Hangar, Evolved Vespiary
Survivors Repair Bay (Render available!), Evolved Healing Tent (see below)
Energy (Used to toggle resource display. Retail version uses Oil icon)
F.O.P.S system(?)
[unknown] tower
Radar, Chat(?)
Sound(?), Patrol Points(?)

Evolved Healing Tent Sprite:
Image
Last edited by Hallfiry on Sat Aug 30, 2014 4:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Hallfiry
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Re: KKnD 2: Krossfire - Beta Demo

Post by Hallfiry »

Woah, I suddenly realized that I forgot to post the official German KKnD1 magazine ad :D

Here it is:
Image

"Ruhe in Fetzen" means "Rest in pieces". Luckily that joke works somewhat good in German.
("Ruhe in Frieden" = "Rest in peace")

[EDIT:] While reading the ad again I realized that it even gives a German translation for "KKnD". Instead of "Krush, Kill 'n' Destroy" it suggests "Keine Kompromisse, nur Draufhauen!", which translates as "No Compromises, only Bashing"
Last edited by Hallfiry on Sat Aug 30, 2014 4:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Dzierzan
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Re: KKnD 2: Krossfire - Beta Demo

Post by Dzierzan »

Hello!

I've recently found this site and a thread about KKND beta. It's good to see that someone really likes KKND franchise as me. I just loved playing KKND as a child. The beta stuff which you found is very interesting, especially KKND1 one. Tell me, is it possible to use Evolved Healing Tent sprite in vanilla KKND? But wait, how do you even get those sprites? I know all sprites, music and such files are in LVL files, yet I don't know how to unpack those files. I've been trying to get LVL extractors, but the download links are down.

BTW I also see that you managed to use in game unused Balista turret, very interesting. Yeah... you know, I was always wondering if it's possible in KKND or KKND 2 to be able to build special units like mechs. I guess it's something with Hex, isn't it? Sadly I've got very low knowledge to do it by myself. Anyway, I'd like to know if KKND Xtreme had a mech called G.O.R.N in game. This name is in KKND editor and I've been always wondering if it's in game. I tried Kaos mode, but it didn't appear from tech bunker. So I'd like to know whether it's a scrapped unit or is it really in game. There's also U.F.O mech in editor, but it doesn't have any stats, where G.O.R.N does have them.

Anyway, keep up the good work and find more beta stuff for KKND if it's possible ;).

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Re: KKnD 2: Krossfire - Beta Demo

Post by Hallfiry »

Dzierzan wrote:Tell me, is it possible to use Evolved Healing Tent sprite in vanilla KKND?
Not without writing some complicated tools.
Dzierzan wrote:But wait, how do you even get those sprites? I know all sprites, music and such files are in LVL files, yet I don't know how to unpack those files. I've been trying to get LVL extractors, but the download links are down.
Friends of mine and I wrote extractors.
Dzierzan wrote: I tried Kaos mode, but it didn't appear from tech bunker. So I'd like to know whether it's a scrapped unit or is it really in game. There's also U.F.O mech in editor, but it doesn't have any stats, where G.O.R.N does have them.
As far as I know, GORT is a real ingame unit. Some little proof for GORT in KKnD1:
Image
Additionally, this website has a screenshot of GORT: http://community.fortunecity.ws/underwo ... hings.html
The page also says:
You can't meet him in the original missions. You can find him in the multiplayer map "Bridge Too Far" and in Xtreme Evolved level 1- "Fresh meat"
I don't know anything about UFO in KKnD1, though.

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Re: KKnD 2: Krossfire - Beta Demo

Post by Dzierzan »

Not without writing some complicated tools.
I see. Does it also answer my question about making mechs buildable?
Friends of mine and I wrote extractors.
Well, I guess you can't share such extractors? A game Star Wars Battlefronts has got such extractors, but now you can't get them since the download links are down. I heard that you can even modify the maps since you can extract LVL files, do some changes and again pack it to LVL. I've seen something similar in game Oddworld Abe's Odyssey.

Anyway, you're talking about "Gort the Robot" when I'm talking about G.O.R.N. Here's a screenshot comparing some mech units in editor:

Image

As you can see, U.F.O doesn't have any stats so I guess it doesn't appear in game, when G.O.R.N does have them. Interesting fact is that it's sharing the same weapon what Mech has got.
Also, if you check with Hex "KKND.exe" you'll find words like "U.F.O" and "G.O.R.N" along with other mechs, suggesting they were supposed to be added in game. You can also find names like "Orville Ultralight" and "KamikaZe Missle", in editor they're in Aircraft class, but like U.F.O they do not have any stats, which suggests they're scrapped units. Perhaps even G.O.R.N is, but the fact it has stats in editor... that's why I'd like to know if you found any sprites of this.

BTW thanks for the site, I haven't known it before.

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Re: KKnD & KKnD 2: Krossfire - Beta Demos

Post by Hallfiry »

As far as I remember there are no sprites for UFO or GORN (whatever that is). I can't share the extractor right now, no.

I don't know anything about that Orville Ultralight or the KamikaZe Missle. My knowledge is mostly focused on KKnD 2, not 1 and X.

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