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 PostPost subject: New DirectX 11 Information Released        Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 4:25 am 
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Shacknews: http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/53810

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Software giant Microsoft today revealed details concerning DirectX 11, the latest edition of its PC gaming graphics API.

Similar to DirectX 10, the software will be available only on Windows Vista and future versions of Microsoft's operating system. DirectX 11 will add new compute shader technology that Microsoft says will allow GPUs to be used "for more than just 3D graphics," allowing developers to utilize video cards as parallel processors.

DirectX 11 will support tessellation, a feature which can potentially assist developers in making models appear smoother when seen up close. Multi-threaded resource handling is also incorporated, making it easier for games to utilize multi-core processors in a user's machine.

Microsoft also disclosed that DirectX 11 will add features to existing DirectX 10-compatible hardware, though it was not immediately clear what those features may be.

A launch date for the new software was not provided, though Microsoft is expected to release more information in the near future. The bullet points, as provided by Microsoft, are listed below.

* Full support (including all DX11 hardware features) on Windows Vista as well as future versions of Windows
* Compatibility with DirectX 10 and 10.1 hardware, as well as support for new DirectX 11 hardware
* New compute shader technology that lays the groundwork for the GPU to be used for more than just 3D graphics, so that developers can take advantage of the graphics card as a parallel processor
* Multi-threaded resource handling that will allow games to better take advantage of multi-core machines
* Support for tessellation, which blurs the line between super high quality pre-rendered scenes and scenes rendered in real-time, allowing game developers to refine models to be smoother and more attractive when seen up close


To all those who think it's too early for another major version of DirectX, I say this: DirectX 1.0 was released on September 30, 1995. DirectX 10 was released on November 30, 2006. That's exactly 10 years and 11 months for 10 major versions of DirectX. Seems to me that Microsoft is even a little behind their average time between major releases already.

To those of you still straggling behind with DirectX 9.0. All reasons aside except that you think 9.0 is still good enough, it's going to have it's sixth birthday soon. Is any other technology that you use six years old (minus XP)?


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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 7:04 am 
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Har Har I was wrong.

Oh well, dunno why MS would do this considering DX10.1 GPU's and games are barely starting to trickle in.


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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 8:08 am 
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Why did they bother starting up with DX11? At this rate, we'll have DX13 before 7 even ships.


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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 8:30 am 
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Microsoft weren't slacking off when they were making DX 10. They were constantly updating DX 9 until Vista was released. Don't ask me why they didn't just release DX 10 instead but still, versions of DirectX should be around and updated many times like DX 9 so I don't see Microsoft's reasoning for speeding up DirectX progress so quickly.

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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 7:26 am 
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logicaL wrote:
Oh well, dunno why MS would do this considering DX10.1 GPU's and games are barely starting to trickle in.


They first have to release the software for developers to start their writing programs. You don't actually need directx 10 hardware for a directx 10 game. From my programing experience you can simply D3D10_DRIVER_TYPE_REFERENCE although it won't run very fast...

Lastly, I doubt any hardware changes will actually be required. It seems the most ambitious feature here is the multicore support...

What happened to ray tracing?

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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 11:26 am 
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Hmm.... DX9.0c (and all updates) runs on 98SE, 2000 and XP, right? Why did they stop support for XP? take Aero away plus a few annoying "features" (I rather call them bugs but that's me :P ) and you have mostly a WinXP looking interface. Also, considering WinXP is likely the most used windows version right now, dropping XP from the gamers base seems silly to me.

And, if that's not enough... My GF and I both play WoW.... I got her oldcomputer with XPHome, and she's got this new one with Vista... intel DualCore 2400, 3GB RAM, nVidia 7900 or there abouts....

the old computer is an AMD Athlon64 3200+, with ATi X1050 gfx and 1 GB RAM....

Now.. I get a MUCH better framerate in WoW on her old computer, than she does on her new one.... And she defo has the better computer.

Anyone got any idea of why this is?


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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 5:59 pm 
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It seems to me that Vista still has some graphics speed issues, it could still be due to the manufacturers not having drivers up to par on Vista, I don't really know how you would tell which is the problem. I run XBMC (media center software) on my laptop. In Vista SP1 with the newest drivers from Intel the interface lags behind a bit and in Ubuntu 8.04 it's really snappy. I have crappy Intel graphics with shared RAM on my laptop, who knows. It could be the OS, it could be lot's of crappy drivers. No matter how small they seem, performance issues still occur in Vista, it's not enough for me to stop using it however. Hopefully the polished final version of Windows 7 will fix all of this.


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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 6:30 pm 
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Alternative viewpoint zone: It will be exciting seeing what cool new things developers can do with these extensions. Especially the ability to use the GPUs for processing outside of 3D.

Doctor Mindvipe wrote:
take Aero away plus a few annoying "features" (I rather call them bugs but that's me :P )

Har har!

Also your GIRLFRIEND should update her drivers, check her graphics settings and stop playing WoW.

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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 11:20 pm 
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If she has Aero turned on, it could be that her graphics card can't handle both Aero and WoW at the same time while maintaining good speeds. Try it with Vista Basic/Classic mode and see if it makes a difference.

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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 6:31 am 
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Doesn't Vista shut Aero off when you're running an application in full screen or playing games?


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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 9:01 am 
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longview wrote:
Alternative viewpoint zone: It will be exciting seeing what cool new things developers can do with these extensions. Especially the ability to use the GPUs for processing outside of 3D.

Doctor Mindvipe wrote:
take Aero away plus a few annoying "features" (I rather call them bugs but that's me :P )

Har har!

Also your GIRLFRIEND should update her drivers, check her graphics settings and stop playing WoW.


1: Latest drivers from nVidia already installed (June 08, I believe)
Quote:
If she has Aero turned on, it could be that her graphics card can't handle both Aero and WoW at the same time while maintaining good speeds. Try it with Vista Basic/Classic mode and see if it makes a difference.


Already done that.... "optimize display for perfomance" was donw 2 hours after we got the computer home and setup ;)

And it's STILL giveing her about 20 FPS, whereas her old computer (which I'm using) gives 40 - 50.

nVidia GeForce 7050 is her gfx-card... 256 MB Ram on it.. should be MORE than enough to run Vista with Aero intact. 3GB Ram alltogether.. her FPS in WoW should FLY with the intel Core2 Qaud Q660 @2.4GHz.

So no. Your suggestions has already been done, and Vista is complete crap, when it comes to the game's FPS rate. However, she doesn't have an "interface lag" thoughwhich is good... but complete horribleness when it comes to FPS as I said already.

Same in Oblivion, BTW.


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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 9:06 am 
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Doctor Mindvipe wrote:
longview wrote:
Alternative viewpoint zone: It will be exciting seeing what cool new things developers can do with these extensions. Especially the ability to use the GPUs for processing outside of 3D.

Doctor Mindvipe wrote:
take Aero away plus a few annoying "features" (I rather call them bugs but that's me :P )

Har har!

Also your GIRLFRIEND should update her drivers, check her graphics settings and stop playing WoW.


1: Latest drivers from nVidia already installed (June 08, I believe)
Quote:
If she has Aero turned on, it could be that her graphics card can't handle both Aero and WoW at the same time while maintaining good speeds. Try it with Vista Basic/Classic mode and see if it makes a difference.


Already done that.... "optimize display for perfomance" was donw 2 hours after we got the computer home and setup ;)

And it's STILL giveing her about 20 FPS, whereas her old computer (which I'm using) gives 40 - 50.

nVidia GeForce 7050 is her gfx-card... 256 MB Ram on it.. should be MORE than enough to run Vista with Aero intact. 3GB Ram alltogether.. her FPS in WoW should FLY with the intel Core2 Qaud Q660 @2.4GHz.

So no. Your suggestions has already been done, and Vista is complete crap, when it comes to the game's FPS rate. However, she doesn't have an "interface lag" thoughwhich is good... but complete horribleness when it comes to FPS as I said already.

Same in Oblivion, BTW.


Isn't the 7050 an integrated GPU? That would be why she's having FPS issues.


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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 9:14 am 
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Well... from the look of it when I sat up the computer, it's a normal addon card. So I believe "no" would be the answer.


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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 9:44 am 
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Wait, is it a 7900 or a 7050?

Because the 7050 if it exists must be [censored], which explains why it runs like it.

The 7900 isn't too hot either.

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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 11:14 am 
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Doctor Mindvipe wrote:
Well... from the look of it when I sat up the computer, it's a normal addon card. So I believe "no" would be the answer.


I'm pretty sure the 7050 is integrated (the 7100 being the bottom of the line for cards), however, many motherboard manufacturers are now including extra addon cards for the ports so they can save space and add two outputs.

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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 2:05 am 
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Doctor Mindvipe wrote:
Well... from the look of it when I sat up the computer, it's a normal addon card. So I believe "no" would be the answer.


Well, the 7000 series isn't that great. Why did you expect a bottom of the card that was crap even when the 7000 series was popular to work well? Just get a cheap 8600gt or something and you'll notice much better performance.


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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 11:39 pm 
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Yeah, if it's a 7050 it's super-low-end. Three generations older than the current cards too.


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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 11:58 pm 
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Well... she's the one insisting on using pre-made computers rfom Packad Bell.... If it was up to me, I'ld build her a new one with parts instead.. Using AMD CPU, of course, the money saved on "same speed" CPU would go towards abetter gfx-card.

And however.. the 7050 has to better than a 6800 we have lying around here? Or atleast better than the ATi X1050?


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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 5:15 am 
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Dude, there is no way that you could build a computer for cheaper than you can buy one for... it's not like that anymore.

Also, that 6800 is way better than a 7050. Put that in and I'll guarantee it will run better.


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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 9:41 am 
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depends on one thing that... if she's got AGP or PCI-e slot... if it's PCI-e then she's screwed... the 6800 is AGP :(


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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 3:41 am 
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There are actually PCI, PCI-Express and AGP versions of 6-series cards.


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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 8:51 am 
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I know that... but if HER comuter has PCI-e then I can't put the AGP card we have in it. I could put it in her old computer... but not the new one.


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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 6:20 pm 
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Suggestion: Look at the computer and try to determine if it uses PCI-e or AGP.

Or we can play the guessing game.
My guess is it's PCI, just because.

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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 9:38 pm 
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She'll refuse me to come near it, sadly ;)


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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:30 pm 
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longview wrote:
Alternative viewpoint zone: It will be exciting seeing what cool new things


What few forget is that those who need to use GPU like functions, manipulating zounds of matrixes, already use GPU's do. The line bettween graphics data and simulation data is markedly artificial. For example, a realistate agent may want to simulate potential growth models on a large expanse of land. They would most likely create a 3D topology and then experiment with changing this 3d surface. This is exactly the same functionality as a computer game character shooting at a dynamic surface.

Adding a pretty interface is of questionable benifit, especially given both that the directX code can always be optomized and Windows has other problems. It seems Microsoft is blatently plagiarizing nVidia' whose hardware solution by offering some kind of wrapper.

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