BetaArchive Logo
Navigation Home Database Screenshots Gallery Image Uploader Server Info FTP Servers Wiki Forum RSS Feed Rules Please Donate
UP: 40d, 2h, 36m | CPU: 33% | MEM: 5892MB of 8191MB used
{The community for beta collectors}

Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 33 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 PostPost subject: Windows 10X Public Preview discussion        Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:29 pm 
Reply with quote
Donator
User avatar
Offline

Joined
Sun Jan 27, 2008 8:09 pm

Posts
3936

Favourite OS
OS X 10.8
Was a bit surprised to see no discussion of today's release of the Windows 10X Public Preview and associated developer tools, now available on Microsoft's official website here:
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/dual-screen/windows/get-dev-tools

Basic Information
Build Number - 10.0.19563.1000.amd64fre.rs_prerelease.200206-1533
Release Date - February 11, 2020

Summary
In summary, Microsoft has today released what they're calling a public preview of Windows 10X, the new variant of Windows engineered with dual screen devices in mind, as well as developer tools required to begin developing for the platform. The Windows 10X Developer Preview is available via a Windows 10X Emulator Image intended to be used alongside the Microsoft Emulator, which requires a 64-bit Windows 10 Pro, Enterprise, or Education Hyper-V compatible system running Windows 10 build 19555 or later. It is not intended nor is it currently possible to be installed standalone.

Notable Changes
  • Win32 applications are run in containers, and will not be able to manipulate system data, unlike Windows 10. This means that Win32 applications will not be able to install drivers or background system processes and services - think anticheat software in games, or Dropbox.
  • Microsoft Edge & Microsoft Office run in a special "shim" to circumvent the new limitations introduced to Win32 apps
  • Windows 10X introduces new Javascript and CSS proposals meant to help webapps understand and adapt to dual screen devices, which will be added in the new Chromium-based Edge browser.
  • Due to the way Windows 10X has been engineered with what the company calls "special state separation," Microsoft announced today that Windows 10X updates will take 'less than 90 seconds' on most systems
  • Twitter user NTAuthority seems to have become the first person to successfully run Windows 10X on actual hardware, having successfully installed the emulator image on a Lenovo T480s

Screenshots
Image
OOBE - Screenshot by @gus33000 on Twitter

Image
Desktop + Start Menu - Screenshot by @StrictlyOsprey on Twitter

Image
Action Center - Screenshot by @ZacBowden on Twitter

Image
BSOD - Screenshot by @teroalhonen on Twitter

Last updated February 12, 2020 to include a successful install of Windows 10X on actual hardware


Last edited by Derf on Thu Feb 13, 2020 10:03 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Top  Profile  WWW
 PostPost subject: Re: Windows 10X Public Preview discussion        Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 3:52 am 
Reply with quote
Donator
User avatar
Offline

Joined
Mon Jul 23, 2012 9:40 pm

Posts
1222

Location
Flying high in a DC10

Favourite OS
NT3.X Family
That new start menu looks very much like the one in last year's xbox lab builds.

Those builds may have been indev tests of some of the features destined for this edition.
I would not doubt it if some of the other features shown in this edition were present in those builds.

10X? Sounds like a bit of naming from derived from "rs_Xbox."

_________________
Quote:
"C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the foot; C++ makes it harder, but when you do it blows your whole leg off"

Fly-by-wire. You don't fly actually the plane, you just ask it to.


Top  Profile
 PostPost subject: Re: Windows 10X Public Preview discussion        Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:22 am 
Reply with quote
User avatar
Offline

Joined
Sat Feb 08, 2020 9:33 pm

Posts
2

Location
Usa

Favourite OS
Vista SP2/LH build 4042
I'll be interested to see those 'less than 90 second' updates in action, if that claim holds any water that is. ;)

Other than that though, I'll definitely be trying out this preview when I find the time, it looks interesting.


Top  Profile  WWW
 PostPost subject: Re: Windows 10X Public Preview discussion        Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:18 am 
Reply with quote
FTP Access
User avatar
Offline

Joined
Sun Mar 04, 2012 4:15 pm

Posts
116

Location
Prague, Czech Republic
I'd just like to note that unlike standard bare Hyper-V, the 10 X emulator also requires support for nested virtualization. While both AMD and Intel CPUs support this in hardware, Hyper-V currently does not support nested virtualization on AMD hosts. As far as I'm aware, this limitation also affects Windows 10 X itself, so if you were to deploy the image to a computer with an AMD host, it would not work either (not 100% sure about that though).

Also one interesting thing to note about this edition is that the image is actually a storage pool consisting of multiple partitions, where the Windows folder resides on a partition that is separate from the rest of the data. The data partition keeps a structure that strongly resembles your standard C:\ layout though, the Windows folder is just a hardlink to the other partition.

_________________
Also known as Cvolton elsewhere...


Top  Profile
 PostPost subject: Re: Windows 10X Public Preview discussion        Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:50 am 
Reply with quote
FTP Access
User avatar
Offline

Joined
Sat Feb 12, 2011 12:12 pm

Posts
276

Favourite OS
Windows 8.1 with Update 6.3.9600
Quote:
Microsoft Edge & Microsoft Office run in a special "shim" to circumvent the new limitations introduced to Win32 apps


This feels a bit like cheating doesn't it?
First you say that the container setup should be enough for most apps, and then your own 2 most-used (probably?) already use tricks to workaround the limitations. Tricks which are also not available for any other devs.
But well, it is what it is :o

I really do like the UI though. Is this all WinUI 3.0?

_________________
If ur a pirate, say arrr!


Top  Profile
 PostPost subject: Re: Windows 10X Public Preview discussion        Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 11:38 am 
Reply with quote
FTP Access
User avatar
Offline

Joined
Fri Jan 31, 2014 12:07 am

Posts
446

Location
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada, North America, Earth, Solar System, Milky Way, Universe, Existence

Favourite OS
Windows XP SP3, Windows 1.0 DR5
I'm guessing Windows 10X will be for phones or tablets?

_________________
Instagram


Top  Profile
 PostPost subject: Re: Windows 10X Public Preview discussion        Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 2:52 pm 
Reply with quote
FTP Access
User avatar
Offline

Joined
Wed May 29, 2019 5:36 pm

Posts
161

Location
Bird

Favourite OS
Windows 3.2
JimOlive wrote:
I'm guessing Windows 10X will be for phones or tablets?

No, it will be for dual screen PCs like Surface Neo.

_________________
Quote:
You have never seen Windows like this!
FREE Windows 3.2!
Shareware featuring an upgrade for pre-existing Windows 3.1 users and BONUS PACK
Distributed freely by PC World. March 1996


Top  Profile
 PostPost subject: Re: Windows 10X Public Preview discussion        Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 3:01 pm 
Reply with quote
Donator
User avatar
Offline

Joined
Mon Nov 20, 2017 6:52 pm

Posts
100

Favourite OS
Longhorn 4074
mibrab wrote:
I'd just like to note that unlike standard bare Hyper-V, the 10 X emulator also requires support for nested virtualization. While both AMD and Intel CPUs support this in hardware, Hyper-V currently does not support nested virtualization on AMD hosts. As far as I'm aware, this limitation also affects Windows 10 X itself, so if you were to deploy the image to a computer with an AMD host, it would not work either (not 100% sure about that though).

Also one interesting thing to note about this edition is that the image is actually a storage pool consisting of multiple partitions, where the Windows folder resides on a partition that is separate from the rest of the data. The data partition keeps a structure that strongly resembles your standard C:\ layout though, the Windows folder is just a hardlink to the other partition.

It doesn't seem to let you obtain the image if you have an AMD host. Unless I'm doing something wrong, the Microsoft Store page for the image blanks out the regular download button, and only accepts voucher codes. I think on Intel machines, it should just let you download it.

_________________
MCSA: Windows Server 2016 (70-740, 70-741, 70-742)
MTA: 98-349, 98-365


Top  Profile
 PostPost subject: Re: Windows 10X Public Preview discussion        Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 4:56 pm 
Reply with quote
FTP Access
User avatar
Offline

Joined
Sat Nov 17, 2007 9:47 pm

Posts
173
mibrab wrote:
Also one interesting thing to note about this edition is that the image is actually a storage pool consisting of multiple partitions, where the Windows folder resides on a partition that is separate from the rest of the data. The data partition keeps a structure that strongly resembles your standard C:\ layout though, the Windows folder is just a hardlink to the other partition.


I figured as much, but has anyone figured out how to mount the VMDK and actually open the pool partitions?

_________________
MEDITECH: it's MAGIC!


Top  Profile
 PostPost subject: Re: Windows 10X Public Preview discussion        Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:36 pm 
Reply with quote
FTP Access
User avatar
Offline

Joined
Tue Jul 08, 2014 9:43 pm

Posts
452

Location
DLL Hell, United States

Favourite OS
Windows 2000 SP4
DanielOosterhuis wrote:
It doesn't seem to let you obtain the image if you have an AMD host. Unless I'm doing something wrong, the Microsoft Store page for the image blanks out the regular download button, and only accepts voucher codes. I think on Intel machines, it should just let you download it.

I was able to download it on my Ryzen 7 3800X machine running the latest Insider build (the requirements on the Store state that you need build 19555 or higher).

The emulator will not launch the image tho, because of the aforementioned AMD incompatibility, and while it will boot if you throw the VHDX to a Hyper-V VM (which I did mainly for shits n' giggles), it will lock up with a black screen and a cursor. But, you can still access the VHDX image.

missingno wrote:
I figured as much, but has anyone figured out how to mount the VMDK and actually open the pool partitions?

I was able to mount the image by attaching a drive letter to the "Data" partition. Like what mibrab stated, the Windows folder is a link to the other partition which actually contains the files for the Windows folder.

In terms of my personal opinions on Windows 10X, again, I wasn't able to run the emulator, but from what I saw, it does look promising IMO, despite being pretty buggy rn (this is still prerelease software released in a image for a glorified VM made for developer testing only). I think of it as "Windows 8 done right", in terms of a UI designed for its form factor. But, unlike with Windows 8, where it tried to stuff a UI that was designed for touch over a preexisting UI and operating system designed for keyboard and mouse, and where the majority of users of it didn't even have a touch screen, Windows 10X is designed from the kernel up for the form factor its targeting, and it's only available (at least officially, see NT Authority getting it running on a Lenovo laptop) on devices with said form factor. It kinda reminds me of how iOS related to macOS (being a system with a similar kernel but with a different UI designed for the form factor it's running on), but with the ability to run desktop apps.

But, I did notice that some people were already dismissing Windows 10X as "another Windows RT" or whatever before the image even came out, while personally, I would want to give a chance with, at the very least, a VM that I can actually run, before I would declare it to be DOA. In fact, I feel that it (or rather WCOS in general) has the potential to be the big re-architecture that Windows 10 IMO needed for quite a while.

_________________
Do Not Make Illegal Copies Of This Signature.
YouTube | Twitter | BA Wiki | BetaWiki


Top  Profile  WWW
 PostPost subject: Re: Windows 10X Public Preview discussion        Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 6:11 pm 
Reply with quote
User avatar
Offline

Joined
Thu Jan 29, 2015 3:20 pm

Posts
14

Favourite OS
18219
missingno wrote:
mibrab wrote:
Also one interesting thing to note about this edition is that the image is actually a storage pool consisting of multiple partitions, where the Windows folder resides on a partition that is separate from the rest of the data. The data partition keeps a structure that strongly resembles your standard C:\ layout though, the Windows folder is just a hardlink to the other partition.


I figured as much, but has anyone figured out how to mount the VMDK and actually open the pool partitions?

If you're on Windows 10 Enterprise, just open "Manage Storage Spaces", and hit "View Files" on any of the spaces within the OSPool.

_________________
Image


Top  Profile
 PostPost subject: Re: Windows 10X Public Preview discussion        Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:03 am 
Reply with quote
FTP Access
User avatar
Offline

Joined
Fri Jan 31, 2014 12:07 am

Posts
446

Location
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada, North America, Earth, Solar System, Milky Way, Universe, Existence

Favourite OS
Windows XP SP3, Windows 1.0 DR5
Winins wrote:
JimOlive wrote:
I'm guessing Windows 10X will be for phones or tablets?

No, it will be for dual screen PCs like Surface Neo.

Looking at pictures, the Surface Neo certainly looks like a tablet. It just has a hinge, that's all. I suspect Google/Samsung (Android) could make a much better OS for such a device.

_________________
Instagram


Top  Profile
 PostPost subject: Re: Windows 10X Public Preview discussion        Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:53 am 
Reply with quote
Offline

Joined
Sat Feb 03, 2018 8:08 pm

Posts
177
Stannieman wrote:
This feels a bit like cheating doesn't it?

M$ has always been more "do as we say, not as we do.". They already tried to move everyone onto metro-style uwp with Windows 8/RT, but kept most of their own applications as win32. They didn't even bother to develop a Metro-ui file explorer.
This hipocracy definitely sends a message to devs. M$ can brag about "LTE 5G multi-sense cloud-connected powered by AI experiences" but we'll see whether they can actually solve the chicken-and-egg hardware-software platform problem this time.


Top  Profile
 PostPost subject: Re: Windows 10X Public Preview discussion        Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 4:39 am 
Reply with quote
FTP Access
User avatar
Offline

Joined
Fri Jan 31, 2014 12:07 am

Posts
446

Location
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada, North America, Earth, Solar System, Milky Way, Universe, Existence

Favourite OS
Windows XP SP3, Windows 1.0 DR5
Not sure if anyone else has tried yet, but I've gotten classic explorer working in Windows 10X, using explorer.exe from my physical machine.

"Classic" Explorer:
Image

Winver:
Image

Using the Registry Editor, I can tell you the full build-string is:
Code:
19563.1000.amd64fre.rs_prerelease.200206-1533

If this wasn't already known.

I also noticed it has references to the name "ContainerOS". For example, explorer.exe has "ContainerOS Explorer", instead of "Windows Explorer". "ContainerOS" can also be found in the Registry. Is this a codename or something?

_________________
Instagram


Last edited by JimOlive on Thu Feb 13, 2020 11:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top  Profile
 PostPost subject: Re: Windows 10X Public Preview discussion        Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 6:29 am 
Reply with quote
FTP Access
User avatar
Offline

Joined
Fri Jan 31, 2014 12:07 am

Posts
446

Location
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada, North America, Earth, Solar System, Milky Way, Universe, Existence

Favourite OS
Windows XP SP3, Windows 1.0 DR5
Another thing I found is a "screensaver" called uwfservicingscr. It doesn't exist in standard Windows 10, and it looks like this:
Image

I'm guessing Windows Update will use this while updating a device. It's worth noting that the Photos screensaver still exists in this build, and it only uses the left monitor. So obviously this "screensaver" has been configured for this build.

I also tried it on my actual machine (not on the emulator), and it works just fine there too, in single screen.

_________________
Instagram


Last edited by JimOlive on Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top  Profile
 PostPost subject: Re: Windows 10X Public Preview discussion        Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 1:46 pm 
Reply with quote
Offline

Joined
Mon Dec 12, 2016 5:32 am

Posts
141

Favourite OS
NT 5 & 6
JimOlive wrote:
I suspect Google/Samsung (Android) could make a much better OS for such a device.


and they will
this will be probably enforced on ms only devices ... but then again why would anyone use them


Top  Profile
 PostPost subject: Re: Windows 10X Public Preview discussion        Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 5:15 pm 
Reply with quote
FTP Access
Offline

Joined
Sat Apr 19, 2008 8:14 pm

Posts
96
JimOlive wrote:
Not sure if anyone else has tried yet, but I've gotten classic explorer working in Windows 10X, using explorer.exe from my physical machine.

"Classic" Explorer:
Image

Winver:
Image

Using the Registry Editor, I can tell you the full build-string is:
Code:
19563.1000.amd64fre.rs_prerelease.200206-1533

If this wasn't already known.

I also noticed it has references to the name "ContainerOS". For example, explorer.exe has "ContainerOS Explorer", instead of "Windows Explorer". "ContainerOS" can also be found in the Registry. Is this a codename or something?


ContainerOS is where the Win32 virtualization occurs; you're not running the app natively, you're seeing the results from the legacy Windows VM. For the record, it already has a copy of explorer.exe which you can launch from e.g. the Windows Terminal, but all legacy apps are going to be partitioned away from the main OS and natively-running code.


Top  Profile
 PostPost subject: Re: Windows 10X Public Preview discussion        Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 5:23 pm 
Reply with quote
FTP Access
User avatar
Offline

Joined
Wed May 29, 2019 5:36 pm

Posts
161

Location
Bird

Favourite OS
Windows 3.2
JimOlive wrote:
Winins wrote:
JimOlive wrote:
I'm guessing Windows 10X will be for phones or tablets?

No, it will be for dual screen PCs like Surface Neo.

Looking at pictures, the Surface Neo certainly looks like a tablet. It just has a hinge, that's all.

The Surface Neo is confirmed to be a dual screen PC. There are lots of different dual screen PC meant to be released and Windows 10X is meant to be bundled with it.
JimOlive wrote:
I suspect Google/Samsung (Android) could make a much better OS for such a device.

For the Surface Duo (which is a tablet) there is an optimized version of Android available for the such device.

_________________
Quote:
You have never seen Windows like this!
FREE Windows 3.2!
Shareware featuring an upgrade for pre-existing Windows 3.1 users and BONUS PACK
Distributed freely by PC World. March 1996


Top  Profile
 PostPost subject: Re: Windows 10X Public Preview discussion        Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 11:49 pm 
Reply with quote
FTP Access
User avatar
Offline

Joined
Fri Jan 31, 2014 12:07 am

Posts
446

Location
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada, North America, Earth, Solar System, Milky Way, Universe, Existence

Favourite OS
Windows XP SP3, Windows 1.0 DR5
Winins wrote:
JimOlive wrote:
Winins wrote:
JimOlive wrote:
I'm guessing Windows 10X will be for phones or tablets?

No, it will be for dual screen PCs like Surface Neo.

Looking at pictures, the Surface Neo certainly looks like a tablet. It just has a hinge, that's all.

The Surface Neo is confirmed to be a dual screen PC. There are lots of different dual screen PC meant to be released and Windows 10X is meant to be bundled with it.
JimOlive wrote:
I suspect Google/Samsung (Android) could make a much better OS for such a device.

For the Surface Duo (which is a tablet) there is an optimized version of Android available for the such device.

Personally I wouldn't consider it to be a PC if it's a portable device without a keyboard, not to mention if its running a proprietary OS like Android, or Windows 10X.

_________________
Instagram


Top  Profile
 PostPost subject: Re: Windows 10X Public Preview discussion        Posted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 12:04 am 
Reply with quote
FTP Access
User avatar
Offline

Joined
Fri Jan 31, 2014 12:07 am

Posts
446

Location
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada, North America, Earth, Solar System, Milky Way, Universe, Existence

Favourite OS
Windows XP SP3, Windows 1.0 DR5
grabberslasher wrote:
JimOlive wrote:
Not sure if anyone else has tried yet, but I've gotten classic explorer working in Windows 10X, using explorer.exe from my physical machine.

"Classic" Explorer:
Image

Winver:
Image

Using the Registry Editor, I can tell you the full build-string is:
Code:
19563.1000.amd64fre.rs_prerelease.200206-1533

If this wasn't already known.

I also noticed it has references to the name "ContainerOS". For example, explorer.exe has "ContainerOS Explorer", instead of "Windows Explorer". "ContainerOS" can also be found in the Registry. Is this a codename or something?


ContainerOS is where the Win32 virtualization occurs; you're not running the app natively, you're seeing the results from the legacy Windows VM. For the record, it already has a copy of explorer.exe which you can launch from e.g. the Windows Terminal, but all legacy apps are going to be partitioned away from the main OS and natively-running code.

I know it already has a copy of Explorer; that's where I got "ContainerOS Explorer" from. I'm not sure what this Terminal is, as I don't see it as an app in the main OS, though you can use Notepad to access explorer.exe.

_________________
Instagram


Top  Profile
 PostPost subject: Re: Windows 10X Public Preview discussion        Posted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 1:24 am 
Reply with quote
FTP Access
Offline

Joined
Sat Feb 08, 2020 6:03 am

Posts
7

Favourite OS
Microsoft Windows Vista
Personally, I am not a fan of this design language. Its too Apple like, too simplified.

Kind Regards,
Josh


Top  Profile
 PostPost subject: Re: Windows 10X Public Preview discussion        Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2020 12:59 am 
Reply with quote
FTP Access
Offline

Joined
Fri Feb 07, 2020 7:00 pm

Posts
6

Favourite OS
Windows 7 Ultimate SP1
I think the interface feels too simplified, but I can see a potential where you interact with the left screen and see the result on the right. For example, in Photoshop you do the detailed painting on the left screen and see the preview of your artwork in progress on the right.


Top  Profile
 PostPost subject: Re: Windows 10X Public Preview discussion        Posted: Fri Feb 21, 2020 5:38 am 
Reply with quote
Offline

Joined
Fri Feb 21, 2020 5:08 am

Posts
5

Favourite OS
15254
MrBurgerKing wrote:
Stannieman wrote:
They already tried to move everyone onto metro-style uwp with Windows 8/RT, but kept most of their own applications as win32. They didn't even bother to develop a Metro-ui file explorer.

There is a UWP File Explorer in Windows 10. It's just hidden. Also, MS's apps are mostly winRT/UWP, such as Cortana, Settings, Calculator, Edge and many more.


Top  Profile
 PostPost subject: Re: Windows 10X Public Preview discussion        Posted: Sat Feb 22, 2020 2:49 am 
Reply with quote
FTP Access
User avatar
Offline

Joined
Sun Jun 12, 2016 10:35 pm

Posts
326

Favourite OS
Windows 1 DR5 to 10 build 9901
Then again, would you do more serious tasks like gaming or managing a server in a dual screen PC that shares similar specs to a present-day 2 in 1?


Top  Profile
 PostPost subject: Re: Windows 10X Public Preview discussion        Posted: Sun Feb 23, 2020 2:19 am 
Reply with quote
Offline

Joined
Mon Feb 03, 2020 5:28 am

Posts
66

Favourite OS
Windows 7
Is it possible to install in VirtualBox?

_________________
Try switching the windows 3.0 ega driver with windows 1.01’s. it will be fun.


Top  Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 33 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next




Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot], LeonardoIannelliRETRIEVES, WindowsCollector2000 and 7 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  

All views expressed in these forums are those of the author and do not necessarily represent the views of the BetaArchive site owner.

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group

Copyright © 2006-2020

 

Sitemap | XML | RSS