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 PostPost subject: Re: [OFFER] Rebuilt Microsoft Neptune build 5111.1        Posted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 10:48 am 
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gus33000 wrote:
Also what proof do you even have to back up the claim that it was made using 2128 files from the pressed disc and not the network share?

The proof is uniform timestamp of those files. That is from the -t parameter which is what they use for pressed discs.

gus33000 wrote:
The only thing that would have the merit of being preserved now is a media_unpack.rar with just a dump of PWA files.

Totally agree. Since the original leak is a folder dump, having a folder dump would be perfect. We need the original PWA leak though.

gus33000 wrote:
And that happened precisely because that's the date of when the iso was made, .. links back to the cd root........

CD root is a directory so I am right about a directory dated 2018. The creation date of a CD is completely different.

gus33000 wrote:
If it's only your opinion why do you keep saying after this message that for sure the timestamps are incorrect?
And no, there's no such thing as more or less original, it's either original or not.

I am sure mrpijey tried to rebuild the ISO to make it look original before. Why can't I do that?
mrpijey wrote:
Assuming that Neptune b5111 ever had an original CD I would assume this is the closest we got to it so far it now being both bootable and installable.


gus33000 wrote:
I'm also sure ImgBurn devs will appreciate people calling their software "stupid" ImgBurn is a good software, unless you have claims to advance as to why you think it's "stupid".

It is not a "stupid" software but it is stupid when comes to Windows ISOs. Microsoft never use third party software to build their ISOs and burn them to CDs so it is incredibly stupid to have a Windows ISO made by ImgBurn. ImgBurn is a good app for burning stuff to CD but it is unsuitable for Microsoft products.

yourepicfailure wrote:
Instead you reiterate that your repack is better than everything else because you spent some time changing timestamps and rebuilding the iso. It isn't original, nor will it ever be. It is based off a non-original image. Which in turn was possibly not based off of the original media.

Where and when did I say mine is original? I know what my ISO based on is not original and my ISO will never be original but having corrected timestamps and rebuilt with the correct program will make it look more authentic. Like I would choose an ISO of Windows XP with 2001 timestamps rather than an ISO with the same content but 2018 timestamps even though it makes 0 difference.

Winins wrote:
The ISO on the FTP is based on the PWA leak though.

Based on != the. We should have the PWA leak on the FTP but sadly we don't have it so we can only put something based on the PWA leak. It would be good if somebody can find it in its original archive.


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 PostPost subject: Re: [OFFER] Rebuilt Microsoft Neptune build 5111.1        Posted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 11:10 am 
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What about this?
gus33000 wrote:
Edit: Taken from your nttalk text file and your ISO, if the timestamps aren't original can you explain this issue?

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 PostPost subject: Re: [OFFER] Rebuilt Microsoft Neptune build 5111.1        Posted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 11:16 am 
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ComputerHunter wrote:
Winins wrote:
The ISO on the FTP is based on the PWA leak though.

Based on != the. We should have the PWA leak on the FTP but sadly we don't have it so we can only put something based on the PWA leak. It would be good if somebody can find it in its original archive.

Overdoze wrote:
Well nowhere is it claimed this copy is the "original". I'm one of the people who created the current BA copy, and since we don't have the original disc yet, we obviously can't know for sure what's closest to the original. However, this copy we (myself and Battler, I believe?) made is based on the original scene leak by PWA from January 2000, where none of the files appear modified, and IIRC the NFO doesn't mention any potential mods either.

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 PostPost subject: Re: [OFFER] Rebuilt Microsoft Neptune build 5111.1        Posted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 11:17 am 
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What about the timezone that person is in? Change your timezone to UTC and check again. Mind you, ISO is not FAT, timestamps change based on the timezone you are in.

Winins wrote:
...

Still, based on != the. The original leak was a folder dump but the copy on the FTP is not. Maybe The timestamps are different as well.


Last edited by ComputerHunter on Sat Jan 11, 2020 11:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 PostPost subject: Re: [OFFER] Rebuilt Microsoft Neptune build 5111.1        Posted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 11:20 am 
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ComputerHunter wrote:
What about the timezone that person is in? Change your timezone to UTC and check again.


If I change my timezone to UTC that's a 1 hour difference which isn't enough to magically change to December 10, 1999.

His timezone was UTC, mine is UTC+1, 1 hour difference, should shift by 1 hour, which doesn't match anything you've chosen to do in your ISO.

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 PostPost subject: Re: [OFFER] Rebuilt Microsoft Neptune build 5111.1        Posted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 11:23 am 
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gus33000 wrote:
ComputerHunter wrote:
What about the timezone that person is in? Change your timezone to UTC and check again.


If I change my timezone to UTC that's a 1 hour difference which isn't enough to magically change to December 10, 1999.

His timezone was UTC, mine is UTC+1, 1 hour difference, should shift by 1 hour, which doesn't match anything you've chosen to do in your ISO.

What about the timezone that person it in? GMT -12?

Edit: How did you know that person's timezone?


Last edited by ComputerHunter on Sat Jan 11, 2020 11:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 PostPost subject: Re: [OFFER] Rebuilt Microsoft Neptune build 5111.1        Posted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 11:23 am 
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ComputerHunter wrote:
gus33000 wrote:
ComputerHunter wrote:
What about the timezone that person is in? Change your timezone to UTC and check again.


If I change my timezone to UTC that's a 1 hour difference which isn't enough to magically change to December 10, 1999.

His timezone was UTC, mine is UTC+1, 1 hour difference, should shift by 1 hour, which doesn't match anything you've chosen to do in your ISO.

What about the timezone that person it in? GMT -12?


Then the date would go even more backwards, and not forward.

+ UTC-12 isn't a thing, UTC+12 is, and even with that in consideration it still doesn't match up.

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 PostPost subject: Re: [OFFER] Rebuilt Microsoft Neptune build 5111.1        Posted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 11:26 am 
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Yeah, don't you want it to go backwards? Again, how did you know that person's timezone? Any proof his timezone is UTC?

Edit: https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/timezone/utc-12


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 PostPost subject: Re: [OFFER] Rebuilt Microsoft Neptune build 5111.1        Posted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 11:27 am 
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mrpijey made his replacement ISO years ago due to an issue with some filenames that prevented successful installation, but he made the mistake of setting all file dates to 9th September 1999 in the process. That was corrected with the current ISO, which also added the missing folders and original setupreg.hiv. Those were some major issues with past ISOs.

I agree a folder dump of the PWA leak would be the best solution in this case, because that's the actual data that matters, the rest that you argue is just metadata that may not even apply in this case. As others have said several times by now, we don't know for certain if this even was on a CD or not. So if it wasn't, the timestamps argument is irrelevant (because they may have been changed on the network share already), as is the header argument because there would be no CD in this case. An ISO is kept more for the ease of use than anything else in such cases.

And no, that supposed 5111.1 CD story is far from being a reliable source of information on this matter. So I'm not sure why it's being treated as the word of god himself here.

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Last edited by Overdoze on Sat Jan 11, 2020 11:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 PostPost subject: Re: [OFFER] Rebuilt Microsoft Neptune build 5111.1        Posted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 11:27 am 
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ComputerHunter wrote:
Yeah, don't you want it to go backwards? Again, how did you know that person's timezone? Any proof his timezone is UTC?


I don't know how I have to explain it to you, you can try every single timezone from -12 to +11, it still doesn't work.

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 PostPost subject: Re: [OFFER] Rebuilt Microsoft Neptune build 5111.1        Posted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 11:29 am 
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Overdoze, can you still find the PWA leak?

We should care more about originality than ease of use. 5111 should be on a disc since its recompile 5111.6 is.


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 PostPost subject: Re: [OFFER] Rebuilt Microsoft Neptune build 5111.1        Posted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 11:30 am 
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ComputerHunter wrote:


Which is only used by aviation, and not a country.

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 PostPost subject: Re: [OFFER] Rebuilt Microsoft Neptune build 5111.1        Posted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 11:31 am 
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ComputerHunter wrote:
5111 should be on a disc since its recompile 5111.6 is.

And you determined this by what means exactly?

I can try to find the original archive again, I only know of two people that have/had it, one of which is no longer reachable.

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 PostPost subject: Re: [OFFER] Rebuilt Microsoft Neptune build 5111.1        Posted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 11:33 am 
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gus33000 wrote:
ComputerHunter wrote:
Yeah, don't you want it to go backwards? Again, how did you know that person's timezone? Any proof his timezone is UTC?


I don't know how I have to explain it to you, you can try every single timezone from -12 to +11, it still doesn't work.


Serious?

Image

Overdoze wrote:
ComputerHunter wrote:
5111 should be on a disc since its recompile 5111.6 is.

And you determined this by what means exactly?

I think 5111.6 is on a disc. I can remember it is a pretty generic looking disc with black label.


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 PostPost subject: Re: [OFFER] Rebuilt Microsoft Neptune build 5111.1        Posted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 11:37 am 
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ComputerHunter wrote:
Serious? Image


Completely.

Image

DRIVER.CAB contains a 1:1 copy of the files found on the disc root, the build script for DRIVER.CAB takes an inf and generates a cdf file makecab will use. And look at that timestamp

I find it hard to believe such an offset can happen between DRIVER.CAB and your ISO files.

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 PostPost subject: Re: [OFFER] Rebuilt Microsoft Neptune build 5111.1        Posted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 11:39 am 
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Well, there we go, the right timestamp :) . Rebuild the ISO with the correct timestamp and done.

Wait... That is local time...


Last edited by ComputerHunter on Sat Jan 11, 2020 11:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 PostPost subject: Re: [OFFER] Rebuilt Microsoft Neptune build 5111.1        Posted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 11:42 am 
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ComputerHunter wrote:
I think 5111.6 is on a disc. I can remember it is a pretty generic looking disc with black label.

It is, but how does that prove our 5111.1 was?

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 PostPost subject: Re: [OFFER] Rebuilt Microsoft Neptune build 5111.1        Posted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 11:43 am 
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ComputerHunter wrote:
Well, there we go, the right timestamp :) . Rebuild the ISO with the correct timestamp and done.


This only proves that your claim of your timestamps being correct based on 2128 pressed image timestamps were quite off.
Feel free to re-build the iso, explain how we found the right timestamps on your front page, and once that's done we may accept your ISO on the FTP.
But no it isn't a 7 hours difference

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 PostPost subject: Re: [OFFER] Rebuilt Microsoft Neptune build 5111.1        Posted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 11:44 am 
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5111.1 was sent to developers and if an internal build is on a disc, highly likely the developer release is. I can't be sure though but a good chance.

gus33000 wrote:
ComputerHunter wrote:
Well, there we go, the right timestamp :) . Rebuild the ISO with the correct timestamp and done.


This only proves that your claim of your timestamps being correct based on 2128 pressed image timestamps were quite off.
Feel free to re-build the iso, explain how we found the right timestamps on your front page, and once that's done we may accept your ISO on the FTP.
But no it isn't a 7 hours difference

That timestamp is local time though. And if you set your clock to US time, it is only off by one hour which might be caused by daylight saving...


Last edited by ComputerHunter on Sat Jan 11, 2020 11:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 PostPost subject: Re: [OFFER] Rebuilt Microsoft Neptune build 5111.1        Posted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 11:47 am 
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ComputerHunter wrote:
5111.1 was sent to developers and if an internal build is on a disc, highly likely the developer release is. I can't be sure though but a good chance.

Some 5111.1 was, but we don't know if ours is the one, because they already used branches at the time and this could just be one of many compiles. Even more so if we consider that they had a self-hosting update service in place.

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 PostPost subject: Re: [OFFER] Rebuilt Microsoft Neptune build 5111.1        Posted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 11:54 am 
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Most likely those sent to developers were on discs and the readme from the WAX leak said this is the developer release so...


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 PostPost subject: Re: [OFFER] Rebuilt Microsoft Neptune build 5111.1        Posted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 12:56 pm 
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Ok so turns out DRIVER.CAB date does not follow timezone policies so it will always stay the same regardless of what timezone you're in.
Assuming that this was made in Redmond, Washington DC, United States this would put the timestamps in UTC-8, which makes the real timestamps off by 1 hour considering ComputerHunter's changes. And this is not debatable considering the proof itself was found in the build itself.

However the points I've made earlier do hold up for any case like that one, any proof not coming from the build itself can't really be accepted without any doubt existing, as it's not from the build itself, and therefor can't be trusted as viable. However as we later on found def proof in the build itself (without mentioning most setup infs use 12/10/1999) it is pretty apparent as to what the real timestamps should be.

Though, most people on the forum may not care much about timestamps as the build itself and the contents are genuine, and timestamps are just timestamps, it's metadata not part of the file itself, it is still nice to have this problem solved.

If something like 5111 (this case) happens again keep in mind that most people (and that was my case) won't actually accept any argument that does not directly come from the build itself.

I'm also sorry for the debate that happened on here, we brought that down in private instead to save the forum from the rest of this debate.

Expect a few more verification though for the off by one error as that might be due by DST. I'm happy we've finally solved this issue as well.

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 PostPost subject: Re: [OFFER] Rebuilt Microsoft Neptune build 5111.1        Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2020 6:13 am 
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OK, the timestamp problem is worse than what we thought. Looks like daylight saving completely messed up the timestamps. So, only the files created while daylight saving is active gets change when you turn off adjust daylight saving automatically. This means daylight saving does not affect Neptune files but they do affect build 2128 files. That means timestamps of all Neptune files in my ISO are 1 hour ahead because in my ISO, their timestamps are based on build 2128 files which are affected by daylight saving.

So, timestamps of build 2128 files are still the same as timestamps from the build 2128 ISO but Neptune files should be set 1 hour back. This is unbelievable, right? Well, if you look at the WAX and KenOath leak, their timestamps are like this.

What caused this? If you look at the WAX and KenOath leak, they're all in ISO format which does not use local time. The PWA leak was originally in ZIP files that often use local time. Once it is in local time, it is then transferred to timezones with/without daylight saving and the system will automatically adjust timestamp of those build 2128 files while leaving Neptune files unchanged. Recreating ISO with timestamps corrected based on build 2128 files will cause timestamps of Neptune files to be one hour ahead. ISOs will prevent this issue so even though the timestamps from the WAX and KenOath leak are wrong, they are not affected by daylight saving.

Now, we can correct the timestamps to get rid of the daylight saving problem. After the correction, we can set our clock to UTC -8 (timezone Neptune was compiled and packaged) and Neptune files will have same timestamp as those files inside DRIVER.CAB.

Here is the proof that timestamps are now original:
Image

Conclusion after all the debates, researches and verification:
Timestamps in my previous ISO are partially wrong as all Neptune 5111 files are 1 hour ahead due to daylight saving. This has been corrected and timestamps in DRIVER.CAB is the best proof that timestamps in this new ISO are genuine.

Download: https://mega.nz/#!RFF0ySAQ!idfm3eW7kPZW ... A6eIPwJpZQ


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