Is Neptune 5111 on the FTP original?

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ComputerHunter
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Is Neptune 5111 on the FTP original?

Post by ComputerHunter »

It is getting more and more confusing which copy of Neptune 5111 is closer to the original release and is there any proof the one on the FTP is original?

The only major difference between all copies of Neptune is SETUPREG.HIV and our SETUPREG.HIV (copy with the 444-day-timebomb) seems to be modified as well. It was named TBOMB444.HIV before being renamed to SETUPREG.HIV and added to the ISO. I don't think Microsoft would ever use that name. The timebomb-free copy was stored in the same directory (public\oak\bin\i386) but named SETUPRET.HIV. I cannot confirm whether or not the 444-day-timebomb one was modified but the filename does not sound "Microsoft". I do not have any builds from the similar era right not so I can't check if they used the same filename.

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Re: Is Neptune 5111 on the FTP original?

Post by Overdoze »

Well nowhere is it claimed this copy is the "original". I'm one of the people who created the current BA copy, and since we don't have the original disc yet, we obviously can't know for sure what's closest to the original. However, this copy we (myself and Battler, I believe?) made is based on the original scene leak by PWA from January 2000, where none of the files appear modified, and IIRC the NFO doesn't mention any potential mods either. A link to download this release may have been posted here already in the past, but if it wasn't, I'll try to provide one later today. Based on the research we've done, it's highly likely all currently circulating copies are based on this one leak, just that some have been modded in the process.

The SETUPREG.HIV differences between copies exist because some people apparently tried to remove the 444-day after install date timebomb (which is typical for Windows 2000 builds from at least 1983 onwards) by replacing the entire file with one from some build of Windows 2000. From what I recall of the creation process and discussion for this copy, the ProductSuite got changed as a result of such mods as well (original is definitely Consumer because this build is in fact the "personal" edition), and the product key requirement was introduced - the original leak doesn't actually ask for the W7XTC key, just like many Windows 2000 builds in the mentioned range don't. One other difference between various copies I've examined that I'm pretty sure of as well is some missing language subfolders, which are present in original leak IIRC. And of course, the previous BA copy had wrong filedates, because apparently someone thought they knew best and changed them all to 9th September 1999. While the majority of the compressed files are indeed from that date (they match Windows 2000 build 2128 100%), the uncompressed Neptune-specific files have dates from then onwards all the way to 10th December, which is the compile date.

And we made this image bootable for ease of use, given that Windows 2000 discs tended to be bootable, it's likely the original Neptune disc was as well. The volume label was set to NEPTUME_M2 as it supposedly was on the original disc.

I think there's an NFO online for some other, later leak from a different group, apparently a BIN/CUE dump, but I haven't come across such a thing yet. So for now, I do believe this is the best we can do.
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Re: Is Neptune 5111 on the FTP original?

Post by gus33000 »

If you had looked better at the path in the registry hive and more specifically looked at it personally at others in the NT source leaks you would have noticed the path is actually this:

public\oak\bin\i386\TBOMB<days>.HIV (there's more than just 444 days in the NT source tree as you can see)

This is the path in the NT source tree, and I can verify this accuracy myself just fine based on NT src leaks.

The path you noticed above is for built for a completely different sku of Windows 2000 and therefore is out of the question.

Microsoft uses a set of preset hives in their source tree, each with different timebomb duration dates and with a timebomb or not. They are being output during the build process with the correct date embedded as well as the product suite.
This is common to every single Windows 2000 build, feel free to check it out for yourself as well as leaked sources. There's also some internal leaks of Windows 2000 builds with all hives named as such in IDW.

The copy on BA ftp is the closest to the original one that actually can be gotten without a disc dump being performed for the following reasons:

- We discovered this weekend Neptune was actually based on Windows 2000 RC3 release (build 2128) by doing file comparison, all 2128 files that have been untouched have the following timestamp:

09/09/1999 09:00 AM which matches closely 2128 IDW dump (not the pressed disc as this was done post IDW release).

- We discovered Neptune only works with 2128 user land as well, which is expected given Neptune seems to be a set of different compiles/codebase for some of the OS components for Windows 2000.
Neptune is an addon that sits on top of an existing build, earlier builds of Neptune may have been based on earlier release candidate builds of Windows 2000.
These builds include a selfhosting suite of dialogs that allowed the builds to be selfhosted at ease at Microsoft at the time (feel free to check out https://betawiki.net/wiki/Windows_Neptune_build_5111.1)

I find it unlikely given we have a timestamp match based on our findings that neptune is an addon pack to 2128 that the copy on BA ftp is not original.

Edit:

Here's the list of setup registry hives used in the build 2020 IDW kit and source tree

Image

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Re: Is Neptune 5111 on the FTP original?

Post by Overdoze »

I found the post with the alternative leak info:
Karzahni wrote:My 5111 is from WinWorld and the Neptune5111.txt is defaced with some notes from someone called Unca Bill, who supplied the file (or whoever put it up on WinWorld)

The volume is "WA2PFRE_EN" also

And the SHA1 is "c89d2a3629cb6b0a58acc5415195c118207a292c" as well as with yours. So looks like we've only determined one so far...

By the way, my Neptune5111.txt says the following if you're interested:

Code: Select all

 
   ÉÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ»
   º                                                                   º
   º                   Windows Neptune build 5111                      º
   º                                                                   º
   ÌÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ͹
   º                                                                   º
   º       Format.....:.bin/.cue      File Count....:14 @ 20MB         º
   º       Supplier...:Unca Bill      Cracker.......:who knows         º
   º       Packaged...:wAxWaReZ       Util Type.....:O/S               º
   º       Date.......:12/??/99       Protection....:None !            º
   º                                                                   º
   ººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººº
  » ÉÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ»
   º                                                                   º
   º    What does Bill Gates do one week after he puts himself in      º
   º    charge of all software development and makes Steve Balmer      º
   º    CEO ?  He NUKES Neptune !!  Oh m'gawd !!  What a BAD move !    º
   º    I've been using this Developers Release since I got my hands   º
   º    on it back in December and it's wonderful ! OK ... so it has   º
   º    one quirky bug in explorer that won't open pages in the        º
   º    correct frame of a framed web page.  Big deal.                 º
   º    The original setupreg.hiv file has been replaced so this thing º
   º    NEVER expires !!  Originally it was a 444 day trial that reset º
   º    itself when you reinstalled.                                   º
   º    Only system need to worry about is make sure you have enough   º
   º    RAM.  I started off with 64MB of SDRAM and quickly found out   º
   º    I needed more.  96MB is bare minimum and 128MB is preferred.   º
   º    If I had a laptop, this OS would be on it faster than you      º
   º    could say "BOO !".                                             º
   º                                                                   º
   ººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººº
     ÉÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ»
   º                                                                   º
   º  Installation Notes :                                             º
   º  Unrar and burn to CD with yer favorite burning util.             º
   º  Doesn't ask for a CD key and as previously noted, doesn't have   º
   º  any time limit on it any more either.                            º
   º                                                                   º
   º  A definite keeper for collectors ---                             º
   º                                                                   º
   ººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººº
 
Which confirms what I said in the first post about the timebomb mods. You can still find this copy, though in ISO form, online.

EDIT: More relevant info: the copy that asks for a key is on Internet Archive as well, the difference is in SETUPP.INI. Both warez leaks have PID=50293270, which is volume license that doesn't need a key. This third copy 50293000, which was apparently used for retail discs. It also has a third variant of SETUPREG.HIV, as well as a corrupt WFC.ZI_ and WINNT.EXE from Windows 2000, not Neptune.
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Re: Is Neptune 5111 on the FTP original?

Post by ComputerHunter »

Why is there WINNT.OLD in ISO on the FTP? WINNT.OLD appears to be WINNT.EXE in the KenOath copy. Anyway, Overdoze, where did you get the PWA leak?

Here is the readme from KenOath:

Code: Select all


   From what I can make of this ISO, it appears to be an original
   un-adulterated leak of Neptune build 5111, & not bootable.

   It also appears to have less files in it than the other ISO of
   it getting around the servers that has had the timebomb removed,
   & the need for a product key removed by editing the Setupp.ini.
   & from what I make of it, the extra files are just bitmap files
   extracted from various setup files.

   Also, what I have found in browsing through this gem, is that it
   uses any retail Windows 98 product key when asked for a key,
   & uses a SetupX.dll from Windows98 as well,
   though the key supplied with this gem seems to be a VLK one.

   The Product Key that came with this is

			W7XTC-2YWFB-K6BPT-GMHMV-B6FDY

   Enjoy this gem as saved from KMenzels ftp, just prior to him losing
   the lot from a drive failure on his poor old PII-400 server that
   served us well.

    KenOath..!   helping to preserve these ever fading treasures..!



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Re: Is Neptune 5111 on the FTP original?

Post by Overdoze »

WINNT.OLD is from Windows 2000, which Microsoft replaced with a new Neptune branded one. In case you haven't noticed, the new Neptune files are simply dropped on top of Windows 2000 build 2128, they didn't even bother compressing them like they usually do.
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Re: Is Neptune 5111 on the FTP original?

Post by ComputerHunter »

I know that but why didn't they delete WINNT.OLD? Many copy's WINNT.EXE is WINNT.OLD in the ISO on the FTP and is there any chance that WINNT.OLD was WINNT.EXE originally and the person who leaked this renamed it to WINNT.OLD and forgot to delete it?

The extra files KenOath were talking about are:
BACKWKS.BMP
BITMAP1.BMP
HEADER.BMP
INITNEP.BMP
INITW2K.BMP
PREPARE.BMP
SIDEBAR.BMP
WINNT.OLD <-- WINNT.EXE in KenOath's ISO

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Re: Is Neptune 5111 on the FTP original?

Post by Overdoze »

The mentioned bitmaps are all from October 1999, not sure why Ken thought they don't belong there just because that particular copy was mising them. The contents of the PWA leak can be downloaded here, but without the NFO, I'll try to find that later.

I'm not sure what's confusing you about WINNT.OLD. It was WINNT.EXE in Windows 2000 build 2128, but Microsoft replaced it with Neptune's. The fact that they didn't delete the old file isn't surprising because as I said they didn't compress Neptune's files either. The file is legit, if you don't believe me do a binary comparison, it's not just a string hack if that's what you're scared of.
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Re: Is Neptune 5111 on the FTP original?

Post by gus33000 »

Update:

I've been looking at undocumented properties of registry hives for SETUPREG.HIV and I've found the following:

The SETUPREG.HIV from PWA and therefore BA copy has a last modified timestamp of 12/7/1999 8:53:48 AM UTC+1 (US date format)

The SETUPREG.HIV from Ken's copy has a last modified timestamp of 7/21/2000 4:49:54 AM UTC+1 (US date format)

It is safe to conclude the BA copy is likely the most genuine one out of the two.

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Re: Is Neptune 5111 on the FTP original?

Post by Overdoze »

Still trying to find the original archives of the PWA release, but I did find the NFO that I pastebinned once: https://pastebin.com/raw/agbXnEm7

As you can see, this was leaked on 24th January 2000.
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Re: Is Neptune 5111 on the FTP original?

Post by ComputerHunter »

OK, now this is getting confusing... So, there are 3 main versions floating around the internet - WAX, PWA and KenOath. It was confirmed that SETUPREG.HIV from the PWA warez leak is original. The WAX and (possibly PWA) releases are bootable whereas KenOath's copy is not. KenOath's copy also asks for a key whereas the other two warez releases does not. To me, it looks like the WAX release is the most popular one since it is still on WinWorld and Internet Archive (all non-FTPers have access), then followed by the PWA copy on the FTP. The KenOath copy isn't so common when compared to the other two.

Here are the differences (there might be more):

Code: Select all

 _________________________________________________________________________
|             |                   |                   |                   |
|             |        PWA        |        WAX        |        KEN        |
|_____________|___________________|___________________|___________________|
|             |                   |                   |                   |
|SETUPREG.HIV |      Original     |      Modified     |      Modified     |
|_____________|___________________|___________________|___________________|
|             |                   |                   |                   |
|BACKWKS.BMP  |      Present      |      Present      |       Absent      |
|_____________|___________________|___________________|___________________|
|             |                   |                   |                   |
|BITMAP1.BMP  |      Present      |      Present      |       Absent      |
|_____________|___________________|___________________|___________________|
|             |                   |                   |                   |
|HEADER.BMP   |      Present      |      Present      |       Absent      |
|_____________|___________________|___________________|___________________|
|             |                   |                   |                   |
|INITNEP.BMP  |      Present      |      Present      |       Absent      |
|_____________|___________________|___________________|___________________|
|             |                   |                   |                   |
|INITW2K.BMP  |      Present      |      Present      |       Absent      |
|_____________|___________________|___________________|___________________|
|             |                   |                   |                   |
|PREPARE.BMP  |      Present      |      Present      |       Absent      |
|_____________|___________________|___________________|___________________|
|             |                   |                   |                   |
|SIDEBAR.BMP  |      Present      |      Present      |       Absent      |
|_____________|___________________|___________________|___________________|
|             |                   |                   |                   |
|WINNT.EXE    |      Neptune      |      Neptune      |     Build 2128    |
|_____________|___________________|___________________|___________________|
|             |                   |                   |                   |
|WINNT.OLD    |     Build 2128    |     Build 2128    |       Absent      |
|_____________|___________________|___________________|___________________|
|             |                   |                   |                   |
|SETUPP.INI   |       Volume      |       Volume      |       Retail      |
|_____________|___________________|___________________|___________________|
|             |                   |                   |                   |
|COMPDATA     |      Present      |       Absent      |       Absent      |
|_____________|___________________|___________________|___________________|
|             |                   |                   |                   |
|LANG         |      Present      |       Absent      |       Absent      |
|_____________|___________________|___________________|___________________|
|             |                   |                   |                   |
|Bootable?    |         ?         |        Yes        |         No        |
|_____________|___________________|___________________|___________________|
All 3 SETUPREG.HIVs plus .reg files: https://mega.nz/#!EVEEDA7I!HhLnoril3AxH ... d5n7s7CP4Q
Looks like timebomb was removed in the WAX copy but not the 2 other releases.

Information/readme from each release: https://mega.nz/#!QYMSnaxZ!uvKdHYxWQRtf ... DaO2IiJPDI

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Re: Is Neptune 5111 on the FTP original?

Post by viper »

Which one is this?

Windows Neptune Build 5111.iso
From the .iso
File size: 295 MB (309,755,904 bytes)
MD5: E02753632F22D4D23C5268ECBAF062C8

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Re: Is Neptune 5111 on the FTP original?

Post by ComputerHunter »

I don't know... Where did you get if from?

https://www.betaarchive.com/forum/viewt ... =16&t=4282

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Re: Is Neptune 5111 on the FTP original?

Post by qazmko1029 »

viper wrote:Which one is this?

Windows Neptune Build 5111.iso
From the .iso
File size: 295 MB (309,755,904 bytes)
MD5: E02753632F22D4D23C5268ECBAF062C8
This is the wax one i suppose.

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Re: Is Neptune 5111 on the FTP original?

Post by ComputerHunter »

Well, not the WAX one I have. Probably Neptune with Activity Center or something...

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Re: Is Neptune 5111 on the FTP original?

Post by Overdoze »

Windows Neptune Build 5111.iso is one of the standard names for the wax copy, but obviously we'd need to see the file to be certain.

PWA leak obviously wasn't bootable, since it was a folder dump. But making it bootable makes things a lot easier for everyone and as I mentioned before, there's a high probability the original disc was bootable anyway. Speaking of these, since the other ISOs don't seem like original dumps either, the whole bootable-or-not aspect of your comparison is rather pointless.
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Re: Is Neptune 5111 on the FTP original?

Post by ComputerHunter »

Overdoze wrote:Windows Neptune Build 5111.iso is one of the standard names for the wax copy, but obviously we'd need to see the file to be certain.

PWA leak obviously wasn't bootable, since it was a folder dump. But making it bootable makes things a lot easier for everyone and as I mentioned before, there's a high probability the original disc was bootable anyway. Speaking of these, since the other ISOs don't seem like original dumps either, the whole bootable-or-not aspect of your comparison is rather pointless.
I am comparing the original warez leaks, not talking about the original disc. Since it is a folder dump, there is no way for it to be bootable so the original PWA leak is not bootable. Also, where did you get the PWA leak from?

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Re: Is Neptune 5111 on the FTP original?

Post by Overdoze »

ComputerHunter wrote:Also, where did you get the PWA leak from?
The usual source of warez.
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