Install Windows NT 4.0 in all of its flavors?

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ATeamInc
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Install Windows NT 4.0 in all of its flavors?

Post by ATeamInc »

Is it possible to emulate all forms (Alpha, MIPS, and PowerPC) and install Windows NT 4.0?
At http://gunkies.org/wiki/Category:QEMU_Tutorials, it only lists about Windows NT 4.0 in MIPS (by using qemu) and this is in fact all what I could find about this (not done an extensive search, yet) and I haven't tried. Seems like a very old one.
Offtopic Comment
Personally, I am a newbie to what comes to OSes other than x86

d3vi1
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Re: Install Windows NT 4.0 in all of its flavors?

Post by d3vi1 »

I can tell you for certain that it won't work for PowerPC. The PowerPC systems that NT was built for had either an ARC firmware or OpenFirmware. If you had OpenFirmware, you would just start veneer.exe. However, if your system booted in big-endian mode, the veneer binary would set little? to true and reboot. Unfortunately QEMU doesn't boot with either firmware options (hackware, openbios, ofw or slof) in Little? mode and it is a prerequisite for Windows NT. Interestingly, PowerMacs boot in little? mode but don't have a working display (I've tried MDD and QuadG5).

Let's talk about the firmware:
SLOF should be able to load the bootloader as it works in the PrepHV fork of qemu.
OFW should also be able to load it if it includes the following: ISO9660, FAT32, MS-COFF and MBR.
OpenBios is the furthest away, but since it's written in C, you could port the veneer ARC emulation directly in it as a symbol (you know where to get the NT sources).
I haven't looked at hackware.

You would need a: qemu-system-ppc -M 40p -vga cirrus (not enabled by default for PPC) and some hacking to do that, but not an insane amount. Build OFW build for little-endian working with fatfs, iso9660, mbr and the non-existing MS-COFF implementation.

read more:
http://tyom.blogspot.ro/2014/09/open-fi ... -prep.html - you have my HAL options analysis in a comment over there as well as a detailed firmware requirements.

ATeamInc
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Re: Install Windows NT 4.0 in all of its flavors?

Post by ATeamInc »

I don't think I need this hacking, if the powerpc version is this complex, well unless someone tries it, I'm not doing it. Maybe I'll try it in the future, but what about DEC Alpha?

aap
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Re: Install Windows NT 4.0 in all of its flavors?

Post by aap »

Nope. Alpha emulation is still not very good in general and nothing will run windows. I couldn't even get it to work on real hardware, win 2k however worked for me.
RIP dmr.

Windows Thunderstruck
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Re: Install Windows NT 4.0 in all of its flavors?

Post by Windows Thunderstruck »

aap wrote:Nope. Alpha emulation is still not very good in general and nothing will run windows. I couldn't even get it to work on real hardware, win 2k however worked for me.
I wonder what build that was?

I probably guess build 2000, 2031, 2072 or 2128 because these builds have Alpha versions.

winnt32
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Re: Install Windows NT 4.0 in all of its flavors?

Post by winnt32 »

Windows 2000 for Alpha lasted until RC2, but then the last ISV/OEM dropped support for it and it was cancelled.

aap
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Re: Install Windows NT 4.0 in all of its flavors?

Post by aap »

I think it's RC2 that I have installed.
RIP dmr.

Hyoenmadan86
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Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2012 6:45 pm

Re: Install Windows NT 4.0 in all of its flavors?

Post by Hyoenmadan86 »

Just for the record: I've seen people trying to boot IBM HALPPC HAL type using OpenFirmware and VEENER module...

That configuration will not work at all. VEENER and HAL actually work in tandem, as VENEER makes use of some HAL object code, and HAL itself has to know how translate certain VEENER memory structures. That means VEENER will not work with any random PPC HAL you want to throw at it. HAL has to be specifically enabled to support VEENER. In IBMs case, the machines don't need VEENER AT ALL, as the PPS firmware already knows how to load NT directly (Is a true ARC firmware) and as far as I know, later RS/6000 machines with OpenFirmware will not work with NT at ALL (Supposedly there was an IBM OpenFirmware build for these machines with internal ARC emulation bundled, but i dunno if was ever released outside IBM).

The right HAL type for the VEENER included in NT CD is HALFIRE (halfire.dll). This HAL is used by the Motorola PowerStack. So if you want to use it with QEMU along with its pairing loader module VEENER, QEMU itself has to emulate a PowerStack machine.

Seems PrepHV also does the same mistake about trying to load VEENER with the incorrect IBM HAL which doesn't support OpenFirmware at all, and the invalid IBM parameters. They will have to fix that by modeling the right machine for VEENER and HALFIRE, which is the      Motorola PowerStack too.

Correction: My error. The VEENER/HALFIRE build bundled in NT CD is for the FirePower Powerized workstation series made by FirePower/Canon. The specifications for these machines is impressive, but the Chipset/Board for them seems pretty generic, which ISA/PCI buses, and no propietary hardware addons. Some of them even run BSD 4.4. Would be a nice candidate for a more standard QEMU PReP machine model, than the 40p which needs PPS firmware be a more accurate machine emulation.

http://ps-2.kev009.com/powerpc-faq/ (Search for FirePower)

Hyoenmadan86
Posts: 186
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2012 6:45 pm

Re: Install Windows NT 4.0 in all of its flavors?

Post by Hyoenmadan86 »

Adding the Device Tree Properties for the FirePower Powerized ES, one of the machines compatible with the supplied VEENER on NT CD, for archive purposes:

Code: Select all

---
ok dev / ls
1f770bc PowerPC-603e
1f44e90 pci
1f44630 bat-mmu
1f37b38 memory@0
1f24540 aliases
1f244e8 options
1f243e0 openprom
1f2438c chosen
1f24334 packages
ok dev /PowerPC-603e .properties
tlb-sets                 00000040 
tlb-size                 00000080 
d-cache-sets             00000080 
d-cache-block-size       00000020 
d-cache-size             00004000 
i-cache-sets             00000080 
i-cache-block-size       00000020 
i-cache-size             00004000 
timebase-frequency       007f2597 
device_type              cpu
name                     PowerPC-603e
ok dev /pci .properties
bus-range                00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 
#size-cells              00000002 
#address-cells           00000003 
device_type              pci
scsi-initiator-id        00000007 
name                     pci
slot-name                00 00 00 0c 53 6c 6f 74 20 41 00 53 6c 6f 74 20 
ranges                   00000000 00000000 00000000 80800800 00000800 00000800 
                         00000000 00000000 80801000 00000800 00001000 00000000 
                         00000000 80802000 00000800 00001800 00000000 00000000 
                         80804000 00000800 00002000 00000000 00000000 80808000 
                         00000800 01000000 00000000 00000000 80000000 00010000 
                         01000000 00000000 00010000 80100000 3e800000 02000000 
                         00000000 00000000 c0000000 3e000000 0072616e 67657386 
ok dev /pci ls
1f7c528 DEC,ethernet@4
1f7c2ac pci10b8,5@2
1f77370 scsi@1
1f480f8 isa@0
ok dev /pci/DEC,ethernet .properties
assigned-addresses       81 00 20 10 00 00 00 00 00 00 14 00 00 00 00 00 
local-mac-address        00 a0 27 02 09 9b 
reg                      00002000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 
                         01002010 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000080 
                         02002014 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000080 
device_type              network
name                     DEC,ethernet
model                    DEC,21040
66mhz-capable            00000000 
udf-supported            00000000 
fast-back-to-back        00000001 
devsel-speed             00000001 
class-code               00020000 
interrupts               00000001 
max-latency              00000000 
min-grant                00000000 
revision-id              00000023 
device-id                00000002 
vendor-id                00001011 
ok dev /pci/pci10b8,5 .properties
assigned-addresses       81 00 10 10 00 00 00 00 00 00 10 00 00 00 00 00 
power-consumption        00 00 00 00 00 72 70 e0 
reg                      00001000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 
                         01001010 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000100 
                         02001014 00000000 00000000 00000000 00001000 
name                     pci10b8,5
66mhz-capable            00000000 
udf-supported            00000000 
fast-back-to-back        00000001 
devsel-speed             00000000 
class-code               00020000 
interrupts               00000001 
max-latency              0000001c 
min-grant                00000008 
revision-id              00000006 
device-id                00000005 
vendor-id                000010b8 
ok dev /pci/scsi .properties
assigned-addresses       82 00 08 14 00 00 00 00 00 00 10 00 00 00 00 00 
device_type              scsi-2
clock-frequency          02faf080 
alternate-reg            01 00 08 10 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 
reg                      00000800 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 
                         02000814 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000100 
model                    NCR,53C810
name                     scsi
66mhz-capable            00000000 
udf-supported            00000000 
fast-back-to-back        00000000 
devsel-speed             00000001 
class-code               00000000 
interrupts               00000001 
max-latency              00000000 
min-grant                00000000 
revision-id              00000001 
device-id                00000001 
vendor-id                00001000 
ok dev /pci/isa .properties
ranges                   00000000 00000000 02000000 00000000 00000000 01000000 
                         00000001 00000000 01000000 00000000 00000000 00010000 
reg                      00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 
device_type              isa
name                     isa
model                    INTL,82378IB
ok dev /pci/isa ls
1f4f3a8 display@i840
1f4ce60 8042@i60
1f4c57c ad1848@i830
1f4c48c timer@i40
1f4a6d4 floppy@i3f0
1f4a60c lpt@i3bc
1f499d0 com@i2f8
1f49334 com@i3f8
1f48f0c nvram@i72
1f488e0 rtc@i70
ok dev /pci/isa/display .properties
linebytes                00000280 
depth                    00000008 
height                   000001e0 
width                    00000280 
frame-buffer-reg         70000000 
reg                      00000001 00000840 00000002 
                         00000001 00000860 00000002 
iso6429-1983-colors      
character-set            ISO8859-1
device_type              display
model                    FirePower,Powerized_Display
name                     display
ok dev /pci/isa/8042 .properties
#address-cells           00000001 
reg                      00000001 00000060 00000005 
name                     8042
model                    INTL,80c42
interrupts               00000001 
ok dev /pci/isa/ad1848 .properties
sample-resolution        00000008 
sample-width             00000002 
sample-rates             00 00 19 d7 00 00 81 33 00 00 ac 44 00 00 93 a8 
#channels                00000004 
dma                      00 00 00 01 00 00 00 00 
interrupts               0000000a 
reg                      00000001 00000830 00000004 
compatible               ad1848
device_type              sound
name                     ad1848
ok dev /pci/isa/timer .properties
interrupts               00000000 
reg                      00000001 00000040 00000008 
device_type              timer
name                     timer
ok dev /pci/isa/floppy .properties
device_type              block
reg                      00000001 000003f0 00000008 
name                     floppy
dma                      00000002 
interrupts               00000006 
ok dev /pci/isa/lpt .properties
interrupts               00000007 
reg                      00000001 000003bc 00000004 
device_type              parallel
name                     lpt
ok dev /pci/isa/com@i2f8 .properties
device_type              serial
reg                      00000001 000002f8 00000008 
compatible               16550a
name                     com
interrupts               00000003 
ok dev /pci/isa/com@i3f8 .properties
device_type              serial
reg                      00000001 000003f8 00000008 
compatible               16550a
name                     com
interrupts               00000004 
ok dev /pci/isa/nvram .properties
reg                      00000001 00000072 00000006 
compatible               ds1385-nvram
device_type              nvram
name                     nvram
ok dev /pci/isa/rtc .properties
clock-frequency          01fc9658 
reg                      00000001 00000070 00000002 
compatible               ds1385-rtc
device_type              rtc
name                     rtc
ok dev /bat-mmu .properties
translations             00 00 00 00 10 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 10 
available                10000000 10000000 
                         20000000 10000000 
                         30000000 10000000 
                         40000000 10000000 
                         50000000 10000000 
                         60000000 10000000 
                         80000000 10000000 
                         a0000000 10000000 
                         b0000000 10000000 
                         d0000000 10000000 
                         e0000000 10000000 
existing                 00000000 00000000 
device_type              mmu
name                     bat-mmu
ok dev /memory .properties
reg                      00000000 02000000 
available                00030000 01ecf000 
                         00004000 0000c000 
name                     memory
ok dev /aliases .properties
screen                   /pci/isa@0/display@i840
net                      /pci/DEC,ethernet
nt                       /floppy:,\veneer.exe
keyboard                 /pci/isa/8042/kbd
audio                    /pci/isa/ad1848
floppy                   /pci/isa/floppy
com2                     /pci/isa/com@2f8
com1                     /pci/isa/com@3f8
disk0                    /pci/scsi/disk@0,0
disk                     /pci/scsi/disk@0,0
scsi                     /pci/scsi
name                     aliases
ok dev /options .properties
menu?                    true
pci-probe-list           1,2,3,4
fcode-debug?             false
output-device            com1
input-device             com1
load-base                393216
boot-command             boot
auto-boot?               false
watchdog-reboot?         false
diag-file                
diag-device              net
boot-file                
boot-device              /pci/scsi/disk@0:,boot
local-mac-address?       false
ansi-terminal?           true
screen-#columns          80
screen-#rows             34
silent-mode?             false
use-nvramrc?             true
nvramrc                  09 70 61 74 63 68 20 20 6e 6f 6f 70 20 20 62 61 
security-#badlogins      0
security-password        
security-mode            none
little-endian?           false
name                     options
ok dev /openprom .properties
model                    FirePower,ENG,00.25,1995-05-23,17:33:12,GENERAL
built-on                 01306bbb 
aligned-allocator        
relative-addressing      
name                     openprom
ok dev /chosen .properties
stdout                   01ff7d20 
stdin                    01ff7e20 
mmu                      01ff9670 
memory                   01ff9770 
bootargs                 
bootpath                 
stdout-#lines            ffffffff 
name                     chosen
ok dev /packages .properties
name                     packages
ok 
---
Was a bit hard find this info. Check this DT has the required parameters to run VEENER properly.
Source URL: http://www.garbled.net/tmp/ofw/firepower

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