The Elder Scrolls Arena and Daggerfall Betas

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Hallfiry
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Re: The Elder Scrolls Arena and Daggerfall Betas

Post by Hallfiry »

The CD arrived. It's basically a Projector slide show, using Eidos' RPL format for videos.
This is the content of the CD:


The original videos had every second row black, so I quickly filtered it all to get rid of these lines.

Awooo
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Re: The Elder Scrolls Arena and Daggerfall Betas

Post by Awooo »

I like the parts where they show the 3D world editor, that's definitely rare footage. The music right after the intro video is a little different to the final game, it is used in the Dragons level. There are also some very different level designs which aren't found in the retail version. :)

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Re: The Elder Scrolls Arena and Daggerfall Betas

Post by deagenes »

the reason they had designed the map of the world so early is so they can use other concepts from the other territories in the game. After arena and daggerfall they had no idea that both games would be so popular. So the made the third, morrowind. that game right there is the father of all modern day rpg gaming noone could know at the time it would become a billion dollar market in the gaming industry. back to my previous comment. They could not build a world that made no sense. so they had to create the folklore for the games arena and daggerfall, in order for it to make sense and work they had to create in a word an entire planet. They just had no idea it would have come so far and evolved into a living breathing virtual world where almost anything is possible.

Hallfiry
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Re: The Elder Scrolls Arena and Daggerfall Betas

Post by Hallfiry »

Again drifting offtopic, back to the DTD thingy: I found a German interview with Ian Livingstone from mid 1996, including two DTD pictures and a dev team photo: http://kultcds.com/Upload/Report_%20Ian ... s_edit.pdf

A better version of the Mid '96 dev team photo:
Image

Hallfiry
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Re: The Elder Scrolls Arena and Daggerfall Betas

Post by Hallfiry »

I should really create a new thread for this... anyways, two newish videos from the German retailer-exclusive MCV magazine:

Eidos Special, featuring scenes that were also shown in the Gen4 video (even the interview footage) leading to the suspicion that it (the interview) was staged and then sent to magazines).


DTD promo video:

Awooo
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Re: The Elder Scrolls Arena and Daggerfall Betas

Post by Awooo »

Thanks for all the new stuff, Hallfiry! Would be great to see a proper write up on this thing. I have a bunch of scans and things I've collected but it's really disorganized at the moment. I can upload it when I've sorted it out. ;)

Here's something new for Arena. Could it be a PlayStation port was in the works?

Image

This was posted on Assembler by Youloute. As I mentioned there, there was a thread somewhere possibly on the ES forums, about a PS1 Elder Scrolls game which was auctioned on eBay. It was assumed that it was a fake but this picture makes me wonder. These screenshots however, are promotional material from the MS-DOS version and I don't know why Softbank is named as the original developer either.

Hallfiry
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Re: The Elder Scrolls Arena and Daggerfall Betas

Post by Hallfiry »

Awooo wrote: Here's something new for Arena. Could it be a PlayStation port was in the works?

Image

This was posted on Assembler by Youloute. As I mentioned there, there was a thread somewhere possibly on the ES forums, about a PS1 Elder Scrolls game which was auctioned on eBay. It was assumed that it was a fake but this picture makes me wonder. These screenshots however, are promotional material from the MS-DOS version and I don't know why Softbank is named as the original developer either.
I'm pretty sure they misinterpreted something or mixed stuff up. This is probably a mix of the Arena CD-ROM release and SoftBank's Area 51 (it's so easy to read Arena in Area). Also magazines are often inaccurate: A french magazine called Bill Roper "Ron Gilbert" and a German magazine called War2exp "Warcraft 3" (Like Warcraft Adventures was also called Warcraft 3 far too often.).
From what I know about the development of Arena and how big Daggerfall was (plus Daggerfall was started directly after Arena), I'm pretty sure, Bethsoft was happy to be through with this little monster, that was not coded in the most friendly language (ASM) and had thrown so much already produced content overboard(scene cards, lots of additional story telling things, party combat, arenas, the list goes on).

So if I had to give a yes/no answer to the quetion if Arena for PS was planned, I'd "No". Though I'd give PlayStation Arena a(n arbitrary) 2% chance to be true :D

Hallfiry
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Re: The Elder Scrolls Arena and Daggerfall Betas

Post by Hallfiry »

And finally something Daggerfall related:
Since I'm now on the German retailer magazine train, I thought it might be funny to see how german stores were advertised to sell Daggerfall:
Image

And to be complete, this is the corresponding consumer ad (originally two pages, so I stiched them together and made them seamless):
Image

MrFlibble
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Re: The Elder Scrolls Arena and Daggerfall Betas

Post by MrFlibble »

Hmm, the first ad says "komplett in deutsch", but I don't think I've ever encountered Daggerfall in any language other than English? I know from UESP Wiki there's an unofficial French translation (suggesting that there was never an official one?).

(On a second thought, I might have chanced upon a video of Greman Daggerfall, but I'm not sure.)

Hallfiry
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Re: The Elder Scrolls Arena and Daggerfall Betas

Post by Hallfiry »

There was no German version of Daggerfall. At some point, in the PR department of Virgin (or Avalon) in Germany, somone made a mistake and claimed that there would be a German version and that mistake was carried so far, that even the box of the German DF release claims to be in German.

There is a German fan version of Daggerfall in the making, though, named Daggerfall Deutsch.

player123
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Re: The Elder Scrolls Arena and Daggerfall Betas

Post by player123 »

Also French and German, has also informally Russian translation
(Incidentally this is a quality translation)
http://tes.ag.ru/dagger/files/dfrus.shtml

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Re: The Elder Scrolls Arena and Daggerfall Betas

Post by MrFlibble »

Hallfiry wrote:somone made a mistake and claimed that there would be a German version and that mistake was carried so far, that even the box of the German DF release claims to be in German.
Maybe they wanted to say that the game is in a Germanic language? :D

As for the Russian version I haven't checked that (yet) but I've heard that VorteX DrAgON (and all the other guys who took part in that project) did a good job.

Hallfiry
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Re: The Elder Scrolls Arena and Daggerfall Betas

Post by Hallfiry »

MrFlibble wrote:
Hallfiry wrote:somone made a mistake and claimed that there would be a German version and that mistake was carried so far, that even the box of the German DF release claims to be in German.
Maybe they wanted to say that the game is in a Germanic language? :D
You mean Anglish? *hehe*

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Re: The Elder Scrolls Arena and Daggerfall Betas

Post by MrFlibble »

Heh, I just checked the German box scan at MobyGames, it even goes as far as to say "over 250,000 words" to emphasize the amount of work that was never done :lol:

Seriously though, I wonder why there was no translation. It's not like Daggerfall is a game that doesn't rely heavily on large bodies of text to advance the plot. Was it some kind of a ploy to improve practical knowledge of English among German video game players?

BTW, what about Arena? Was it translated into other languages?

[Edit] More interesting stuff. While the German box boasts that the size of the in-game world is more than 80,000 square km, the French version modestly reduces this nearly to half the size (45,000 square km). The original US description doesn't even mention any exact numbers at all.

The French version also mentions the (dropped) option to import characters from Arena.
Last edited by MrFlibble on Fri Jan 17, 2014 4:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Hallfiry
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Re: The Elder Scrolls Arena and Daggerfall Betas

Post by Hallfiry »

MrFlibble wrote:Seriously though, I wonder why there was no translation. It's not like Daggerfall is a game that doesn't rely heavily on large bodies of text to advance the plot. Was it some kind of a ploy to improve practical knowledge of English among German video game players?

BTW, what about Arena? Was it translated into other languages?
Actually we don't know why Daggerfall was not translated to German. Maybe I'll find a little statement by Virgin's (or Avalon's) press department, on that confusion, but I highly doubt it. EDIT: I found some old forum posts about a German version of Daggerfall that was scheduled for December 1997, but obviously that never happened.

Arena was not translated into other languages, though I'm working on a German version and Elderscrolls.net is working in a Russian version (irrc).

MrFlibble
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Re: The Elder Scrolls Arena and Daggerfall Betas

Post by MrFlibble »

BTW, on another note, remember you discovered this?
Hallfiry wrote:The only way to display them is renaming them to title.img, but that only works for 320x200 images:
Image
-> Nudity was planned for Arena, like in Daggerfall(?) and Battlespire.
Apparently, the game uses paperdoll clothes mechanics, and although it doesn't allow the players to change their characters' clothes, there are different clothes sets depending on the class (for example, here are two pics of an Argonian male showing different clothes sets: an Acrobat and a Spellsword). The body shapes without clothes were probably never meant to be displayed in the game (unless, of course, there was a dropped feature to buy and change clothes that is).

ELOdry
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Re: The Elder Scrolls Arena and Daggerfall Betas

Post by ELOdry »

MrFlibble wrote:Hmm, the first ad says "komplett in deutsch", but I don't think I've ever encountered Daggerfall in any language other than English? I know from UESP Wiki there's an unofficial French translation (suggesting that there was never an official one?).
Hi!

I'm one of the initiator of this french translation.

First, please forgive me my terrible english, but as the typical French guy, I really suck when it comes to speaking a foreign language. Fortunately, I understand english quite well, or at least well enough to work on this translation project!

Second : you all guys did an awesome job on this forum! I thought I already knew a lot about Arena and Daggerfall betas, but I learned a lot of new things thanks to you!

I just wanted to add something about the official translation of Arena and Daggerfall (or I'd rather say "their non-translation"). The reason why Daggerfall was very difficult to translate is partly because the way its quests are coded. It uses a lot of variables. For instance, "%ra" designates player's race. But "the %ra" should be translated as "le %ra" or "la %ra" depending of the character's sex. And that's only one example : every variable causes a lot of problems, since a simple "the" could be translated as le/la/l'/les depending of the context.

Furthermore, you have one other huge problem : the fact that a lot of texts are hard-coded in the executable. If your translated sentences are as long as (or shorter than) the original text, everything is alright. But if your translated sentences are longer, you're gonna break the code, and the game won't run anymore. The problem is, french is a very wordy language. A very simple sentence, as "the bat is dead" (15 letters long), will be twice as long in french ("la chauve-souris est morte").

Last but not least, the font used in Daggerfall don't allow you to use letters such as é, è, ê, ë, ç, à, â, û, ù etc. Unfortunately, those letters are very common and important in french. "Sur" and "sûr" are two very different words. A word as "lycée" doesn't make any sens if you write it "lycee". And the list goes on!

Here's all the reason why Ubisoft (which distributed the game in France) translated the manual, but not the game itself. Anyway, untranslated games weren't rare back in the days.

I wasn't really associate with the translation of Arena, but I think it was somewhat easier. You can find it there : http://www.projet-french-arena.org/wiki/

Redguard (and the following games) had official translation, but as far as I know, nobody ever tried to translate Battlespire.
Last edited by ELOdry on Tue Mar 04, 2014 11:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

Hallfiry
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Re: The Elder Scrolls Arena and Daggerfall Betas

Post by Hallfiry »

Turns out the "undocumented" TES books shown in Redguard's trailer/intro are actually chapters from "The Adventures of Hajji Baba of Ispahan", probably with illustrations by Michael Kirkbride.

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Re: The Elder Scrolls Arena and Daggerfall Betas

Post by MrFlibble »

Hallfiry wrote:a German magazine called War2exp "Warcraft 3" (Like Warcraft Adventures was also called Warcraft 3 far too often.)
I've heard that the numbers in series titles in Germany might indeed get confusing, as with Command & Conquer: Red Alert which is called "Teil 2" in Germany, while Tiberian Sun is "Teil 3"; whereas everywhere else Tiberian Sun is considered to be C&C2 (although it's not an official title), and Red Alert doesn't have a number in the title because it's a prequel (and a discontinued one to that).

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Re: The Elder Scrolls Arena and Daggerfall Betas

Post by ELOdry »

Dofer wrote:Very early known version, which released in stores is 2 March 1994 (...)
That's very interesting, but what's your source on that?

Hallfiry
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Re: The Elder Scrolls Arena and Daggerfall Betas

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ELOdry wrote:
Dofer wrote:Very early known version, which released in stores is 2 March 1994 (...)
That's very interesting, but what's your source on that?
That sounds especially strange considering that Bethesda released the first patch BEFORE that date. A usenet post from March 1, 1994 proves that the patch (aside from its timestamp) was already around then.

Hallfiry
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Re: The Elder Scrolls Arena and Daggerfall Betas

Post by Hallfiry »

With some luck we might soon get our hands on this little jewel:
Image
Image

Awooo
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Re: The Elder Scrolls Arena and Daggerfall Betas

Post by Awooo »

Very cool. Maybe it's the earlier 0.1 demo version from the Collectors Edition of Daggerfall?

Hallfiry
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Re: The Elder Scrolls Arena and Daggerfall Betas

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Awooo wrote:Very cool. Maybe it's the earlier 0.1 demo version from the Collectors Edition of Daggerfall?
Yep it is the version that came with (or before) the CE.

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Re: The Elder Scrolls Arena and Daggerfall Betas

Post by MrFlibble »

Nice! Is that the one with the female Spellsword? Or the one with an underpowered level 4 (or something) character?

Anyway, that's a great find :)

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