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 PostPost subject: The thin line between abandonware and warez        Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 9:37 am 
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Well I don't know the rules but IMO

MS Software older then 10 Years old is abandonware

Windows 2K-Vista is Warez

Windows 1-98 is Abandonware

Please tell me if I'm right under the rules becouse this is my taking of them

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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 10:50 am 
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warez
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abandonware


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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 11:14 am 
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Any MS software distributed in violation of copyright is warez. That includes pre Windows 95. That stuff is so old it is considered abandonware, but MS still own the copyright to it meaning it's technicaly warez even though they're unlikely to ever prosecute anyone for it. In fact MS dont generaly go after Joe Public for copyright infringement unlike the games movies and music industry, they are more concerned with organized piracy for profit. Abandonware is not a legal term and has no legal status, it is simply descriptive of software where the copyright is questionable, i.e. a company went out of business and no one bought/owns the rights or software whos copyright owner has relinquished those rights and released it into the public domain.


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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 6:21 pm 
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Well, a list.

Alpha / Beta / RC are here because they are in the ''Beta'' section of Windows.
Including:
- Nashville
- Neptune

Or other Windows/Microsoft Projects that were never completed.

Abandonware
    - 1
    - 2
    - 3
    - 95
    - 98
    - ME (it's not older then 10 years, but it's because it unsupported)
    - NT 3.1
    - NT 3.5
    - NT 3.51
    - NT 4.0

Warez
    - 2000
    - XP
    - Server 2003
    - Vista
    - Server 2008

Office, abandonware
    - 4.x and below
    - 95
    - 97

Office, warez
    - 2000
    - XP
    - 2003
    - 2007


And there can be hundreds of these lists.
And overtime more versions are going to be abandonware.

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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 7:15 pm 
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Just becuase something is unsupported doesn't make necessarily make it abandonware. If that was the case then any version of XP prior to SP2 is abandonware as they are unsupported. Everything on your list you have labled as abandonware is actualy warez as it infringes copyright.


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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 5:38 am 
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Interesting...I had never really thought about this before. Man, I'm learning a lot from this site. :D

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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 6:03 am 
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And don't forget, ALL products based on Microsoft Home are abandonware, all Microsoft Plus! products before Microsoft Plus! for Windows XP are abandonware, Picture It! is abandonware as well. There are hundreds of other abandonware too, because MSFT is the biggest software maker in the world, but this is to give you a general idea :)

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Interesting...I had never really thought about this before. Man, I'm learning a lot from this site. :D

You can learn EVEN MORE by registering at http://forum.classbeta.com 8)


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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 4:38 pm 
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Regardless of what all you people think, abandonware that is released without the authors consent is WAREZ. You only use the term "abandonware" because the software in question is old and mostly not used anymore (and also not supported anymore as someone pointed out). But get this straight:

Abandonware does not mean it's free for use, free to distribute, free to modify, free to [insert whatever here]

The term for above is FREEWARE, and even freeware are under certain licenses limiting your uses (like the GPL licenses etc).

So really, abandonware doesn't give you any more rights than warez does, it only tells you roughly how old the software is. The wiki page states this as well.

Even if Microsoft now stopped supporting or selling licenses to Windows 3.1 they WILL hunt you down if you start distributing it for free on a large scale. Piracy does exist and it's a well known practice, but we (the users) don't dictate the license form or age of a piece of software. The authors do. So unless Microsoft comes out with a public statement that Windows 3.1 is free for use, free to distribute, free to modify etc then it's still warez. Even if you are the last one on this planet using it.

So there is no "fine line" between the two. It's a whole line all to itself...

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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 11:03 pm 
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I've always thought of abandonware as something that's not supported anymore by the manufacturer. Therefore, I use this list to find out whether it's supported or not and make my judgment on abandonware using that.

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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 10:29 pm 
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DjRob wrote:
Well, a list.

Alpha / Beta / RC are here because they are in the ''Beta'' section of Windows.
Including:
- Nashville
- Neptune

Or other Windows/Microsoft Projects that were never completed.

Abandonware
    - 1
    - 2
    - 3
    - 95
    - 98
    - ME (it's not older then 10 years, but it's because it unsupported)
    - NT 3.1
    - NT 3.5
    - NT 3.51
    - NT 4.0

Warez
    - 2000
    - XP
    - Server 2003
    - Vista
    - Server 2008

Office, abandonware
    - 4.x and below
    - 95
    - 97

Office, warez
    - 2000
    - XP
    - 2003
    - 2007

And there can be hundreds of these lists.
And overtime more versions are going to be abandonware.


Everything on your list is warez. Did Microsoft ever say

" Hello, pirates! Feel free to distribute our ol' software. while your at it, make sure you scratch off the "Do not make illegal copies of this disc" sign on your disc! We'll even llet you remove the copyright! Put Copyright (You name) there instead!"

NO!

Only betas are not warez, as long as they follow the agreement.


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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 11:13 pm 
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motherboardlove wrote:
Everything on your list is warez. Did Microsoft ever say

" Hello, pirates! Feel free to distribute our ol' software. while your at it, make sure you scratch off the "Do not make illegal copies of this disc" sign on your disc! We'll even llet you remove the copyright! Put Copyright (You name) there instead!"

NO!

Only betas are not warez, as long as they follow the agreement.

They never told people that they could pirate their old software, but eventually when software becomes old and unsupported, Microsoft couldn't care less whether people pirate it or not as they can't make any more money out of it.

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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 11:39 pm 
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motherboardlove wrote:

Everything on your list is warez. Did Microsoft ever say

" Hello, pirates! Feel free to distribute our ol' software. while your at it, make sure you scratch off the "Do not make illegal copies of this disc" sign on your disc! We'll even llet you remove the copyright! Put Copyright (You name) there instead!"

NO!

Only betas are not warez, as long as they follow the agreement.


A few words.

[censored] you.

DID I SAY THAT IF IT'S ABANDONWARE YOU CAN DO MAKE IT YOUR OWN???
NO I DID NOT!!.

I am tired of wasting my breath on [censored] pieces of [censored] like you.

1 more time:

On betaarchive.co.uk
Abandonware = Not supported/Not sold (and over 10 years)
Warez = Currently supported/Still sold (and not 10 years)
Alpha/Beta/RC's = abandonware.

By Microsoft
EVERYTHING not supported/not sold, currently supported/still sold (like Windows 1/2/3 up to Vista and 7) is warez.
AND
ALPHA/BETA/RC'S are ALSO WAREZ!!.

Thank you for reading.
And a reminder.

Please stop posting useless [censored] posts.
Sadly as it is, more and more spammers and only posters to download subscribe and post and then are gone.
It's not fun anymore and if this keeps up I am not sure of the future of Betaarchive, maybe it's going somewhere like OSBetaarchive did.
And not sure about the good posters here if they leave or not.

Now let's go back to beta testing.

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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Sun Nov 09, 2008 3:35 pm 
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Ok, this is very simple.

Warez is software that is distributed or used against the terms of the EULA or relevant laws.

Abandonware is a subset of warez that is more socially accepted because it is old.
Here, BA defines abandonware as software that is either 10 years old or no longer supported, whichever comes first.

However, it's also up to the owners of the servers what is allowed on there, and they have varying rules.
For example, my M1 is pretty much anything goes, whereas the BA FTP only allows modern software that doesn't fit the Abandonware definition if:
- It's pre-release software
- It does not require a key/crack to install (ie, Vista doesn't need a key, it provides the 30-day activation period)
- It does not come with a key/crack

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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 2:34 am 
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What? Windows Pre 95 cant be warez. Everywhere I surf for abandonware Windows 3.1 is there. What you are saying is Win3.1 is warez. I just dont quite get it. Windows 95A is on almost every abandonware WS. Go to VetusWare.com and look for win95. Their Policy says they do not host Illegal Content. If they were distributing Illegal versions of Windows, Believe me they would have been shut down years ago. 8-)


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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 2:37 am 
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i highly doubt Microsoft cares because they sure the heck wont be making money off it and the rules for abandonware vary by site.


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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 2:52 am 
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I agree with zamadatix. Microsoft has bigger priorities than worrying about distributing copies of 10 yr old windows. They focus on Patches with Windows Vista, Windows XP, and recent projects.

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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 2:52 am 
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While Microsoft may no longer support a particular peice of software, does not mean they don't still hold the legal rights to the code, the name and all the logos apps and sounds included within.
Abandonware is what Microsoft allows us to treat like abandonware, and warez is software Microsoft still gives a [censored] about.
And we don't need to have an entire thread arguing the semantics of warez and abandonware, if it is not allowed, then Andy or a Mod will delete it, and what is not allowed is at the discretion of Andy and the Mods.


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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 8:12 am 
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I was just wandering because I'm planning on starting a Abandonware/Beta download site and I don't want any trouble from MS.

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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 8:54 am 
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The impression I've gotten from talking about old betas in the betanews newsgroups (on connect) is that MS doesn't care much. The logic of it holds up too, atleast as far as enthusiasts go. There's no revenue to gain from old betas, they don't impact the sales of the final product, the "fanatics" (read: us) do it because we're curious and we're a pretty tiny part of the market. One could even argue that we're good for the development of the various products. Odds are that a lot of us fans do our best to end up in the official testing programs and a lot of the time we're really thorough testers.


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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 4:11 pm 
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*sigh*

Regardless of what you consider to be abandoware it's not the same as free. ANY abandonware is illegal if the author didn't give you the right to distribute it freely.

Because you can steal a candybar without anyone noticing doesn't mean it's the right thing to do, or even legal. It just means that the store owner may not see you, or doesn't care. But it's still a crime and punishable by law if the store owner decides that enough is enough.

Microsoft may not care specifically that you put your little DOS 6.0 and Windows 3.0 on a website, but you are not free to do so, nor is it legal. And if some lawyer at Microsoft feels he need to fill his quota then he has every right to shut you down, BIGTIME.

None of the beta builds on this site is legal. You may think betas are abandonware and not really wanted by MS, but they are still under copyright law and bound by licenses unless Microsoft makes a statement that all software prior to year xxxx is free to use and do what you want with.

Abandonware and warez isn't the same thing. Abandonware and free isn't the same thing. However in this case (Microsoft software and all these betas) anything you might consider as abandonware _IS_ warez. Go ask Microsoft if you are allowed to copy their betas and old software freely and if you are allowed to modify, crack, hack and distribute it as freely as your definition of "abandonware" means. Not even freely downloadable software like DirectX is free for use as you please. It's only free for use as Microsoft wants you to use it.

So you may all define abandonware as whatever you want, but abandonware and warez isn't two sides of the same coin, it's two completely different things. One is an arbitrary estimate of an applications age and use, the other is a crime punishable by law. And even if it's old you can still get burned.

And again, because the store owner doesn't see or care that you dip your fingers in the candy and "sample" it doesn't mean it's legal and free for you to do so.

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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 12:41 am 
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"if that candy bar is 10 years old no one is going to care; doesnt make it right but no one gives a [censored]" is a good way to summarize.


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