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 PostPost subject: A/UX        Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 11:32 pm 
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I haven't seen much activity on this thing, I guess because it doesn't run on any emulators, and you need VERY exact hardware to run it on....

Anyways I do have a 950 running A/UX 3.01 however it seems my stepping up to 3.11 makes it unstable as hell... I was wondering if anyone had any experience on A/UX?

It's too bad apple did it's best to discourage uni people from getting this thing... It's awesome (for the time anyways) it's very much like OS X but with a system 7 interface slapped ontop of SYSVr2...

Oh and it comes with C/C++ & Fortran 77! back then that would have justified the $10,000 apple computer alone...

Oh well.

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 PostPost subject: Re: A/UX        Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 4:11 am 
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Unfortunately I don't have any 68k machines (with a CDROM drive) that will run A/UX - my only 68k is the Mac IIsi, which needed an addon FPU card before it could boot A/UX.

So, yes, A/UX, like Copland, I've never been able to see running. *cries*

Wish I could offer some help instead of useless waffle, but no!
8)

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 PostPost subject: Re: A/UX        Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 5:08 am 
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grabberslasher wrote:
Unfortunately I don't have any 68k machines (with a CDROM drive) that will run A/UX - my only 68k is the Mac IIsi, which needed an addon FPU card before it could boot A/UX.

So, yes, A/UX, like Copland, I've never been able to see running. *cries*

Wish I could offer some help instead of useless waffle, but no!
8)



If I was handy with some good mac hardware refrence I'd take this emu (ARAnyM):

http://sourceforge.net/project/showfile ... _id=639072

and see about mutating it from an Atari ST emulator into a Quadra 700 emulator... The heavy lifting of the CPU is already done, as it does the full 68040 instruction set (yes MMU & FPU!). As it stands ARAnyM can run linux...

So I suspect it's not out of the realm of possibility but it'd take some knowledge of how mac's actually work, vs doing some weird hooks into known rom images to fake stuff out... since that won't work with A/UX... I just don't know if the current or perspective A/UX community would care.... lol

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 PostPost subject: Re: A/UX        Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 3:24 pm 
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grabberslasher wrote:
Unfortunately I don't have any 68k machines (with a CDROM drive) that will run A/UX - my only 68k is the Mac IIsi, which needed an addon FPU card before it could boot A/UX.

So, yes, A/UX, like Copland, I've never been able to see running. *cries*

Interesting, apparently the Mac IIci works with A/UX, I've got one of those stashed away here but sadly I don't think I have any screens that work with it any more, I think you can't use LCDs with them (possibly if you have a standalone graphics card rather than the integrated graphics you can I think, but the card in mine never seemed to work!) - I could do with a new challenge after eventually getting Leopard running on the Beige G3 too! :)


I doubt many people have actually seen Copland running (as opposed to crashing :P), from what I've heard it always crashes very shortly after loading (though you do get to see a cool boot screen apparently!). I've got a Power Mac 6100 too, which I think is compatible (the G3 is too new), should try it some day I suppose :) (that thing is so slow just with OS 9.1, maybe Copland would still be an improvement! :P)

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 PostPost subject: Re: A/UX        Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 5:00 pm 
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Vista Ultimate R2 wrote:
grabberslasher wrote:
Unfortunately I don't have any 68k machines (with a CDROM drive) that will run A/UX - my only 68k is the Mac IIsi, which needed an addon FPU card before it could boot A/UX.

So, yes, A/UX, like Copland, I've never been able to see running. *cries*

Interesting, apparently the Mac IIci works with A/UX, I've got one of those stashed away here but sadly I don't think I have any screens that work with it any more, I think you can't use LCDs with them (possibly if you have a standalone graphics card rather than the integrated graphics you can I think, but the card in mine never seemed to work!) - I could do with a new challenge after eventually getting Leopard running on the Beige G3 too! :)


I doubt many people have actually seen Copland running (as opposed to crashing :P), from what I've heard it always crashes very shortly after loading (though you do get to see a cool boot screen apparently!). I've got a Power Mac 6100 too, which I think is compatible (the G3 is too new), should try it some day I suppose :) (that thing is so slow just with OS 9.1, maybe Copland would still be an improvement! :P)


I researched the A/UX thing -> you need a Mac IIsi with an FPU card in one of the (nubus?) slots, and I don't have said card. Also you need a CDROM drive (which the IIsi didn't have), so you'd need to provide your own SCSI cable with HD and CDROM attached. I have all that, just not the FPU (which is essential).

I had a 6100 at one stage, along with a pair of 7200s, but back then I didn't have copies of Copland. Nowadays those older machines have been thrown out (against my will!)

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 PostPost subject: Re: A/UX        Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 6:32 pm 
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Vista Ultimate R2 wrote:
Interesting, apparently the Mac IIci works with A/UX, I've got one of those stashed away here but sadly I don't think I have any screens that work with it any more, I think you can't use LCDs with them (possibly if you have a standalone graphics card rather than the integrated graphics you can I think, but the card in mine never seemed to work!) - I could do with a new challenge after eventually getting Leopard running on the Beige G3 too! :)


Yes, A/UX is VERY picky about hardware... you need an actual apple scsi cdrom that is single speed.... which just means the install takes the better part of an hour.. Although for all the unix OS's I've installed it's pretty straight forward... It really does feel like OS X, in that it only asks a few questions. The cool thing is that A/UX was the first Apple OS not to require an Apple branded hard disk. I guess they knew people would be using then massive 3rd party 700mb disks & whatnot. I actually installed onto a flash card with one of those IDE-SCSI bridge things, to lower power consumption but it's not any faster/slower then an actual disk.. Having it 'format' the 8gb flash took a few HOURS...

As for the video unless your onboard video ram/controller is messed up, it ought to work with an LCD... I know I needed one of those adapters that let you select a resolution & refresh rate with dip's... I ran mine like that for a little while until I scored an actual Apple monitor.

Vista Ultimate R2 wrote:
I doubt many people have actually seen Copland running (as opposed to crashing :P), from what I've heard it always crashes very shortly after loading (though you do get to see a cool boot screen apparently!). I've got a Power Mac 6100 too, which I think is compatible (the G3 is too new), should try it some day I suppose :) (that thing is so slow just with OS 9.1, maybe Copland would still be an improvement! :P)


I've always wondered what Copland looked like... I guess PearPC or Sheepshaver can't run it? I'm still kind of sad neither can run OS X 1.0... I still feel like a sucker since I paid full retail for mine, and it just sits there now... :|

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 PostPost subject: Re: A/UX        Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 7:25 pm 
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louisw3 wrote:
Yes, A/UX is VERY picky about hardware... you need an actual apple scsi cdrom that is single speed.... which just means the install takes the better part of an hour.. Although for all the unix OS's I've installed it's pretty straight forward... It really does feel like OS X, in that it only asks a few questions. The cool thing is that A/UX was the first Apple OS not to require an Apple branded hard disk. I guess they knew people would be using then massive 3rd party 700mb disks & whatnot. I actually installed onto a flash card with one of those IDE-SCSI bridge things, to lower power consumption but it's not any faster/slower then an actual disk.. Having it 'format' the 8gb flash took a few HOURS...

Hehe :) Would it work with an AppleCD 300 then do you know? (that's the external SCSI drive I've got, not sure if it single speed or not though)


louisw3 wrote:
As for the video unless your onboard video ram/controller is messed up, it ought to work with an LCD... I know I needed one of those adapters that let you select a resolution & refresh rate with dip's... I ran mine like that for a little while until I scored an actual Apple monitor.

I think I read somewhere that the very old machines are "sync on green" and therefore incompatible with most modern displays, you have to use one of the Apple CRT screens of the time? (I do have a couple of Apple Studio Display LCDs with the old-style connector that Macs used to have but I think because they are modern they wouldn't work with "sync on green")


louisw3 wrote:
I've always wondered what Copland looked like... I guess PearPC or Sheepshaver can't run it? I'm still kind of sad neither can run OS X 1.0... I still feel like a sucker since I paid full retail for mine, and it just sits there now... :|

I'm pretty sure neither can run Copland, PearPC definitely can't as it only runs 10.1 or newer. I think Copland looked similar to the released OS 8, it had the same "Platinum" interface (there is a small screenshot on its Wikipedia page) and I think it also included the Hi-Tech, Gizmo and Drawing Board themes that were never included in a retail version but you can still load the files in to OS 9 and use them. You got a retail boxed OS X Server 1.0? :o If so that is pretty cool, well worth the price! (you never see them come up on eBay or anywhere now, they seem very rare and would be valuable to the Apple collector :))

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 PostPost subject: Re: A/UX        Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 8:24 pm 
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Vista Ultimate R2 wrote:
Hehe :) Would it work with an AppleCD 300 then do you know? (that's the external SCSI drive I've got, not sure if it single speed or not though)


Yes, that is what I used to install it on my 950. The old single speed with the caddy...

Vista Ultimate R2 wrote:
I think I read somewhere that the very old machines are "sync on green" and therefore incompatible with most modern displays, you have to use one of the Apple CRT screens of the time? (I do have a couple of Apple Studio Display LCDs with the old-style connector that Macs used to have but I think because they are modern they wouldn't work with "sync on green")

I recall from other places that a few lcd's do the sync on green.. There was some people hacking LCD's onto NeXT cube's, I think the mono ones, and whatnot... I think there may be a list on some next enthusiast site of lcd's known to work with sync on green stuff...

Vista Ultimate R2 wrote:
I'm pretty sure neither can run Copland, PearPC definitely can't as it only runs 10.1 or newer. I think Copland looked similar to the released OS 8, it had the same "Platinum" interface (there is a small screenshot on its Wikipedia page) and I think it also included the Hi-Tech, Gizmo and Drawing Board themes that were never included in a retail version but you can still load the files in to OS 9 and use them. You got a retail boxed OS X Server 1.0? :o If so that is pretty cool, well worth the price! (you never see them come up on eBay or anywhere now, they seem very rare and would be valuable to the Apple collector :))


I think the biggest bummer for me was that I first got an iMac to run OS X... It was ok, but it felt small real quick. So I bought a 350Mhz G4 with 512mb of ram to find out that OS X could *NOT* run on it... There was some update to allow for g4's but it was not a bootable update for those of us that were 1.0 users.. I remember running OS 8 & Linux and being somewhat pissed as Linux on the PowerPC really felt like a 2nd class citizen.. (funny how something change and I run Linux on a PS3, which is a PowerPC 64bit core...) Anyways I was happy as hell that I got the OS X 10.0 beta which did run on my G4... I remember Oni & Quake being cool under OS X 10.... Good times for sure!

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 PostPost subject: Re: A/UX        Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 9:25 pm 
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louisw3 wrote:
Yes, that is what I used to install it on my 950. The old single speed with the caddy...

Cool, sounds like the same one as I've got - the caddies are a real classic piece of hardware now! :)


louisw3 wrote:
I think the biggest bummer for me was that I first got an iMac to run OS X... It was ok, but it felt small real quick. So I bought a 350Mhz G4 with 512mb of ram to find out that OS X could *NOT* run on it... There was some update to allow for g4's but it was not a bootable update for those of us that were 1.0 users.. I remember running OS 8 & Linux and being somewhat [censored] as Linux on the PowerPC really felt like a 2nd class citizen.. (funny how something change and I run Linux on a PS3, which is a PowerPC 64bit core...) Anyways I was happy as hell that I got the OS X 10.0 beta which did run on my G4... I remember Oni & Quake being cool under OS X 10.... Good times for sure!

Could you not have applied the update to a 1.0 installation using the iMac G3 and then put the hard drive into the G4? Usually Mac OS/OS X systems can be moved between machines like that and still work, unlike Windows (presumably Server 1.x would behave similarly to OS X 10.x).

If you had 1.0 did you have to pay again to get Server 1.2 when it came out by the way?

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 PostPost subject: Re: A/UX        Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 9:32 pm 
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Vista Ultimate R2 wrote:
Could you not have applied the update to a 1.0 installation using the iMac G3 and then put the hard drive into the G4? Usually Mac OS/OS X systems can be moved between machines like that and still work, unlike Windows (presumably Server 1.x would behave similarly to OS X 10.x).

If you had 1.0 did you have to pay again to get Server 1.2 when it came out by the way?


The 1.2 update was free to 1.0 users (all the 1.0 disks were stamped 1.1 so that was another issue onto it'self...). I thought about doing the disk swap but I didn't want to void the warentee on the imac... in retrospect I should have just done it.

What really got me was that there was no upgrade path from 1.0 to 10.0 I remember being quite mad @ the apple people in Miami finding out they wanted yet another $600 for a 10 user copy (1.0 was unlimited at least!) or $999 for the unlimited... no break for the 1.x crowd. Needless to say the only os x server stuff I have, I bought used on ebay... .lol.

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 PostPost subject: Re: A/UX        Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 1:26 am 
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louisw3 wrote:
I've always wondered what Copland looked like...
GUI-wise Copland looked nearly identical to Mac OS 8: the Platinum theme. There are videos of Copland floating around on the Web.

I tried to get Copland running but I could never get past the boot screen (splash screen?). The version of Copland I had required me to have an extra Mac as a debugger hooked up to the Copland host.

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 PostPost subject: Re: A/UX        Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 1:33 am 
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milatchi wrote:
The version of Copland I had required me to have an extra Mac as a debugger hooked up to the Copland host.

Apparently build D7E1 requires the debugger to run while D11E4 does not (these are the only two leaked builds I think, and both are very unstable).

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 PostPost subject: Re: A/UX        Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2009 2:39 am 
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So I guess I am the only one here who has seen Copland actually boot. (Though I've seen it crash many more times than I've seen it boot.)

Back in undergrad, I worked for my college's technology department, and me and the main Apple tech spent an evening getting (I believe) D11E4 running on a pair of Macs. I remember it crashing so much that we quickly grew tired of it, and reformatted the computers that we had used to get it up and running.


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 PostPost subject: Re: A/UX        Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2009 2:38 pm 
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mulholland wrote:
So I guess I am the only one here who has seen Copland actually boot. (Though I've seen it crash many more times than I've seen it boot.)

Back in undergrad, I worked for my college's technology department, and me and the main Apple tech spent an evening getting (I believe) D11E4 running on a pair of Macs. I remember it crashing so much that we quickly grew tired of it, and reformatted the computers that we had used to get it up and running.


I guess the overall instability of copeland just underscored their rush to NeXT for help... I just find it funny after using A/UX that they basically had what they needed right under their noses... I bet unisoft could have gotten them going for some SYSV on PowerPC... Although it'd still cost a fortune per seat...

I do remember that mkLinux project where Apple flirted with Linux on the PowerPC But without even a basic system 7 shell to it, it was... kinda sucky. It's funny how mkLinux seems to have been obliterated by the mists of time..

But then again it may be a good thing.

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 PostPost subject: Re: A/UX        Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2009 4:15 pm 
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louisw3 wrote:
I guess the overall instability of copeland just underscored their rush to NeXT for help...

I have heard it said that Copland was used by some on a day-to-day basis internally at Apple for some time during its development (presumably much better builds than the two leaked ones as they are not at all usable), though it may just have been a rumour.

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 PostPost subject: Re: A/UX        Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 5:58 am 
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Actually, I quite liked the boot screens.

Fancy blue on sone Photoshop-blend-FX-galore text, I think.


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 PostPost subject: Re: A/UX        Posted: Wed May 13, 2009 6:52 pm 
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I have heard various rumors about Copland over the years.
I can't recall where I heard this one from but if i find a link ill edit this post.

In essence the guy was talking about how it took roughly 3 years to get OSX out to the public as a beta. (1997 to 2000) and it took another 3 years before it was stable enough to have majority usage share among Mac users with the Panther update. (2000-2003) [thank god for expose]
His argument was that it took roughly 3 years to get Copland out to developers in 1995/96. It was really unstable but alot of its technologies were sound. (Including the Carbon API. Which was originally destined to be the transitional API for Copland NOT MacOS X) If they hadn't canceled Copland and just kept supporting the team for another 3 years the product would have been as good as OS X was in 2003.

Of course this implies that Apple's mismanagement of resources would of ceased and that Copland wasn't already a Vista-level embarrassment for the company. (not that I personally believe there was anything to be embarrassed about with Vista..)

I think its just a very interesting take on history and a crazy what-could-of-been story.


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 PostPost subject: Re: A/UX        Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 11:56 am 
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louisw3 wrote:
Vista Ultimate R2 wrote:
Hehe :) Would it work with an AppleCD 300 then do you know? (that's the external SCSI drive I've got, not sure if it single speed or not though)


Yes, that is what I used to install it on my 950. The old single speed with the caddy...

That was actually probably the Apple CD 150, if it was caddy-load. Or the Apple CD SC if it was an almost-VCR-sized caddy dealie.


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