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 PostPost subject: Emulator to install Rhapsody x86 with?        Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 9:29 pm 
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Does anybody remember the name of the emulator that works best with installing Rhapsody x86?
I keep failing using vmware 6...
Doesn't like my CD-ROM type...

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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 9:51 pm 
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I think it was Virtual PC 4.1. It's horribly slow though, it's bearable if you have the time.


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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 11:56 am 
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May I ask exactly what this Raphsody X86 is? It sounds to me like either a custom Windows project or a Linux distribution.

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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 12:02 pm 
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squidward_ wrote:
May I ask exactly what this Raphsody X86 is? It sounds to me like either a custom Windows project or a Linux distribution.


GOOGLE is your friend.

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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 12:52 pm 
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Hey, it looks like a parody of Apple's Mac OS X!

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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 1:01 pm 
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squidward_ wrote:
Hey, it looks like a parody of Apple's Mac OS X!


Ehhm, rhapsody _is_ Mac OS X.


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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 1:10 pm 
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Squidward, seriously, have you ever used a Search Engine or Wikipedia before asking a question?

Rhapsody is the code name given to Apple Computer's next-generation operating system during the period of its development between Apple's purchase of NeXT in late 1996 and the announcement of Mac OS X in 1998. It consisted primarily of the OPENSTEP operating system ported to the PowerMac along with new graphics in the GUI to make it appear more Mac-like. Several existing Mac OS technologies were also ported to Rhapsody, including QuickTime and AppleSearch. Rhapsody could also run a selection of existing Mac OS programs through the "Blue Box" emulation layer. Compared to the "invisible" blue box in OS X, Rhapsody's Blue Box was "noticeable" as it opened a Classic like program and there was no Carbon to help port existing Mac software to the new OS without the Blue Box.

http://www.google.com.au/search?num=30& ... arch&meta=

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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 1:21 pm 
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Alexsis wrote:
Squidward, seriously, have you ever used a Search Engine or Wikipedia before asking a question?

Rhapsody is the code name given to Apple Computer's next-generation operating system during the period of its development between Apple's purchase of NeXT in late 1996 and the announcement of Mac OS X in 1998. It consisted primarily of the OPENSTEP operating system ported to the PowerMac along with new graphics in the GUI to make it appear more Mac-like. Several existing Mac OS technologies were also ported to Rhapsody, including QuickTime and AppleSearch. Rhapsody could also run a selection of existing Mac OS programs through the "Blue Box" emulation layer. Compared to the "invisible" blue box in OS X, Rhapsody's Blue Box was "noticeable" as it opened a Classic like program and there was no Carbon to help port existing Mac software to the new OS without the Blue Box.

http://www.google.com.au/search?num=30& ... arch&meta=


Not to mention that apart from Aqua and the newer core* kits its API is pretty much the OS/NS API with the classnames adjusted. There's even bits of OpenStep resources in the OS if you poke around long enough. :)


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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 1:28 pm 
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Not to mention that apart from Aqua and the newer core* kits its API is pretty much the OS/NS API with the classnames adjusted. There's even bits of OpenStep resources in the OS if you poke around long enough.


The display application and the setup app. Right?


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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 1:30 pm 
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Windows OCManage wrote:
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Not to mention that apart from Aqua and the newer core* kits its API is pretty much the OS/NS API with the classnames adjusted. There's even bits of OpenStep resources in the OS if you poke around long enough.


The display application and the setup app. Right?


I was thinking more of things like library remnants and icons hidden away in resource files.


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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 3:46 pm 
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It just seemed a parody of Mac OS, because ReactOS seems like a parody of Windows to me, and how the people who came up with the project managed to do it without getting at Microsoft's source code is a mystery to me.

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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 3:57 pm 
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squidward_ wrote:
It just seemed a parody of Mac OS, because ReactOS seems like a parody of Windows to me, and how the people who came up with the project managed to do it without getting at Microsoft's source code is a mystery to me.


Seriously? The next version of Mac OS developed by the people who created the previous version looks like a parody? I'm starting to suspect that you have misunderstood the word "parody". Here's a short and fitting definition of it: "An imitation of an author or work for comic effect.". How a sucessor to something is an imitation let alone a humorous imitation is beyond me. As for coding, making a binary- and source-compatible clone is tricky but doable. Take a look at Haiku for example, it's well on it's way to 100% compatibility with BeOS R5 as well a whole bunch of improvements.


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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 10:20 am 
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I'm not sure because I haven't installed it for some time but I think it runs in QEMU, and if it doesn't work in QEMU then try Bochs, I'm pretty sure it works in one of the two. It's limited and VERY picky about the hardware it runs on though, and sometimes it takes a couple of tries to get it installing properly so if you use QEMU, don't use the KQEMU module. Also if you're running QEMU on Windows I highly recommend QEMU Manager which makes it much more usable.

A guide for Bochs is available at http://forum.insanelymac.com/index.php?showtopic=24516 (registration required to download the actual PDF but there's a link to an image showing it running too which doesn't require registration).

Alexsis wrote:
Rhapsody could also run a selection of existing Mac OS programs through the "Blue Box" emulation layer. Compared to the "invisible" blue box in OS X, Rhapsody's Blue Box was "noticeable" as it opened a Classic like program and there was no Carbon to help port existing Mac software to the new OS without the Blue Box.


IIRC (and don't quote me), a real copy of MacOS was run between the app you wanted to run and Rhapsody, similar to Classic on OSX which uses a copy of OS9 to run older apps.


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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 10:35 am 
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Frozenport, your best bet is pull out some old P1 or P2 and install it on that. Any pre-microsoft virtual pc will work however, and it's not as slow as people claim, but Microsoft branded ones don't work because they jewed all that up.

(Could also try virtualbox too)

squidward: could you please go die. i'm done trying to beat a clue into you, you dead would be a lot better.


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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 10:44 am 
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This thread shows a laptop for sale (several years old, so no longer for sale) with a full spec list, so any machine similar to this one should run it natively. This would be the best way to run it but if you're just playing around or whatever then buying a new (old) machine specifically for it is probably overkill. If you really want to experience it properly though, that's the way to go.

Now THAT's a Hackintosh. ;)


Edit: Further reading, very interesting: http://rhapsodyos.org/


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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 3:59 pm 
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Oh, I get a bit of idea of how things like ReactOS work now!

Offtopic comment: I have too many things to do yet in my life and I am too young to go die yet thankyou very much!

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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:49 pm 
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squidward_ wrote:
Oh, I get a bit of idea of how things like ReactOS work now!

Offtopic comment: I have too many things to do yet in my life and I am too young to go die yet thankyou very much!


Actually ReactOS is more of a deal of reverse engineering, sort of how Linux started. Rhapsody was the [censored] child of OpenStep after Apple bought out NeXT and transformed OpenStep into MacOS X. If you poke through the Cocoa API you will notice that most of the older classes begin with NS which often is refered to as NextStep.


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 PostPost subject: Re: Emulator to install Rhapsody x86 with?        Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 11:29 pm 
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I found it to "run" best under Qemu. Now granted I had to recode the mouse buttons to flip around as it seems to be 'fixed' for a leftie mouse user... go figure.

Also it's not terribly stable, and I also recall it having MAJOR issues with addressable ram... IE nothing over 64MB.. I think there is a hack of some sort to go higher, but I don't want to quote it off and be wrong.

If you are ok with a compiler, there are patches out there for Qemu 0.90 & 0.91 to support the busmouse, and change the video card to one that Nextstep/openstep support besides the slow VESA thing...

I'm sure I could do a full install plus the installables, I'd probably be inclined to put it on a tracker of some kind like some prior releases of stuff that I've uhm... done... lol

Anyways if anyone want's the thing slapped together in a windows installer or something I'll do it.. although like the Xenix one it's not terribly useful... Honestly NeXTSTEP 3.3 with fixpack 3 is way more usable... (minus the fact that the only web browser is circa 2.x generation stuff)

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 PostPost subject: Re: Emulator to install Rhapsody x86 with?        Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 4:06 am 
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louisw3 wrote:
I found it to "run" best under Qemu. Now granted I had to recode the mouse buttons to flip around as it seems to be 'fixed' for a leftie mouse user... go figure.

Also it's not terribly stable, and I also recall it having MAJOR issues with addressable ram... IE nothing over 64MB.. I think there is a hack of some sort to go higher, but I don't want to quote it off and be wrong.

If you are ok with a compiler, there are patches out there for Qemu 0.90 & 0.91 to support the busmouse, and change the video card to one that Nextstep/openstep support besides the slow VESA thing...

I'm sure I could do a full install plus the installables, I'd probably be inclined to put it on a tracker of some kind like some prior releases of stuff that I've uhm... done... lol

Anyways if anyone want's the thing slapped together in a windows installer or something I'll do it.. although like the Xenix one it's not terribly useful... Honestly NeXTSTEP 3.3 with fixpack 3 is way more usable... (minus the fact that the only web browser is circa 2.x generation stuff)


For me, Rhapsody runs best in VMWare Fusion (2.0) as there are working VMWare network and accelerated video drivers.

I used http://www.smallersystems.com/people/ma ... psody-dr2/ as the guide for installing it, which is quite possibly the best guide ever.

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 PostPost subject: Re: Emulator to install Rhapsody x86 with?        Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 3:12 pm 
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grabberslasher wrote:
For me, Rhapsody runs best in VMWare Fusion (2.0) as there are working VMWare network and accelerated video drivers.

I used http://www.smallersystems.com/people/ma ... psody-dr2/ as the guide for installing it, which is quite possibly the best guide ever.

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I came across that guide recently and tried following it but couldn't get it to work (I was trying on Workstation 6.5 on Windows but it should work the same I think) - I don't suppose there's any chance you'd still have the finished drivers.iso file and would be willing to share it is there? :) (I think my problems may have been that I had some difficulties in trying to make that image correctly) I did also get DR2 running in VMware a while ago just using the default drivers once before but it was terrible, the graphics were horrible and it kept crashing and then wouldn't load again, presumably using the correct drivers makes it stable.

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 PostPost subject: Re: Emulator to install Rhapsody x86 with?        Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 5:01 pm 
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No, I don't believe I kept my drivers ISO, but it was easy to do. I think I used Toast in the end to make the CD.

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 PostPost subject: Re: Emulator to install Rhapsody x86 with?        Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2009 2:43 am 
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grabberslasher wrote:
For me, Rhapsody runs best in VMWare Fusion (2.0) as there are working VMWare network and accelerated video drivers.

I used http://www.smallersystems.com/people/ma ... psody-dr2/ as the guide for installing it, which is quite possibly the best guide ever.


I've spent hours trying to get this to work in Fusion 2 with those instructions, but have had no luck getting it all sorted out with all the drivers working. Any chance you'd be willing to upload your VMWare image to the server?


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 PostPost subject: Re: Emulator to install Rhapsody x86 with?        Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 7:01 pm 
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I was able to install and run Rhapsody DR2 x86 in VMware Workstation 6 and VMware Fusion 1!
I don't know about Fusion 2,but in Fusion1 and Workstation,it ran perfectly.
I could make a 2 GB image with Rhapsody DR2 in VMware Workstation with the correct VGA+Mouse+Network drivers.
But it may take a while,because I'm not at home and therefore,I can't even create the VM.

Adam


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 PostPost subject: Re: Emulator to install Rhapsody x86 with?        Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 11:08 pm 
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adamsalac wrote:
I was able to install and run Rhapsody DR2 x86 in VMware Workstation 6 and VMware Fusion 1!
I don't know about Fusion 2,but in Fusion1 and Workstation,it ran perfectly.
I could make a 2 GB image with Rhapsody DR2 in VMware Workstation with the correct VGA+Mouse+Network drivers.
But it may take a while,because I'm not at home and therefore,I can't even create the VM.

Adam

If you would be willing to do this, and upload it to the server, I'd be greatly appreciative.


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 PostPost subject: Re:        Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 11:28 pm 
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squidward_ wrote:
It just seemed a parody of Mac OS, because ReactOS seems like a parody of Windows to me, and how the people who came up with the project managed to do it without getting at Microsoft's source code is a mystery to me.


ReactOS BARELY works. The internals of Windows aren't exactly secret. When building embedded systems with custom hardware, you get a good idea of how things work under the hood. Most of the guys actually doing the coding fall into this category. Obviously, other than reimplementing friggin piles of APIs spanned across decades, you need to also implement the corner case quirks of said functions for a lot of software to work. That is the tricky part.


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