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 PostPost subject: Darwin on VirtualPC/VMWare?        Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 10:15 pm 
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uhm.. yeah, as I said.

I've got my girlfriends' old computer, which is an Athlon64 3200+, it's got an ATi X1050 gfx card and one gigg RAM.

I'm just pondering if this is good enough to test Darwin in either VMWare or V-PC? And if so, what version of Darwin should I go for? the "OSX 10.2" equivalnet version, for example?


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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 10:48 pm 
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Darwin is the kernel of the Mac OS X, but dont have GUI (Graphical User Interface) and not need a good hardware.

See the following site to know/download the versions
http://www.opensource.apple.com/darwinsource/

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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 10:55 pm 
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hmm.. so "OSX" as they call is basically these underlying Un*x-es, and a heavily hacked XWindow on top top of that?

What is the deal with SSE, SSE2 and SSE3? is that also something that the hacked XWindow client needs?

I've already been on that adress (heck, my AppleID from YEARS ago still works :P ) so...

hmm.

How about getting XWindow to work over Darwin?


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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 10:59 pm 
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OSX doesn't use X for it's display


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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 11:05 pm 
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Doctor Mindvipe wrote:
hmm.. so "OSX" as they call is basically these underlying Un*x-es, and a heavily hacked XWindow on top top of that?

What is the deal with SSE, SSE2 and SSE3? is that also something that the hacked XWindow client needs?

I've already been on that adress (heck, my AppleID from YEARS ago still works :P ) so...

hmm.

How about getting XWindow to work over Darwin?

OS X as we know it is Darwin as the core (FreeBSD-based), some frameworks and layers (which Darwin lacks), Quartz (and Quartz Extreme when supported) as a GUI/"window manager" and, on top of that, the Aqua layer for the GUI. OS X doesn't use X11 at all by default and Quartz is a completely different beast. I don't know what you mean by the "hacked XWindow client" needing SSE. You can use X11 on Darwin, at least XFree86 has been ported. AFAIK, Darwin is hard to get running in both VirtualPC and VMware, with VMware having a bigger chance of being compatible. As for which version to take, why don't you use the newest one that is available as an ISO, which is 8.0.1 corresponding to 10.4 AFAIK? :)

And if you were thinking about this -- forget about running native graphical OS X apps on Darwin. It just won't work.


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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 11:08 pm 
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Apple make their own GUI that they call Aqua which is the OS we currently know as Mac OS X. Darwin underneath is just a standard Linux CLI almost. Kind of like Windows 9x had underlying DOS. But it's a lot stabler than 9x because Linux generally is.

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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 11:11 pm 
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mdogg wrote:
Apple make their own GUI that they call Aqua which is the OS we currently know as Mac OS X. Darwin underneath is just a standard Linux CLI almost. Kind of like Windows 9x had underlying DOS. But it's a lot stabler than 9x because Linux generally is.

Darwin is not Linux. It's Unix, and a weird one at that.


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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 11:19 pm 
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empireum wrote:
mdogg wrote:
Apple make their own GUI that they call Aqua which is the OS we currently know as Mac OS X. Darwin underneath is just a standard Linux CLI almost. Kind of like Windows 9x had underlying DOS. But it's a lot stabler than 9x because Linux generally is.

Darwin is not Linux. It's Unix, and a weird one at that.

Well I did say "Linux CLI almost".

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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 11:38 pm 
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how to hack vmware to accept mac OSX :

http://pcwizcomputer.com/index.php?opti ... &Itemid=48

Removed thanks to happy dude, reminded me about the torrent rule.


Last edited by djdanster on Thu Jul 24, 2008 9:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 7:06 am 
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Read the rules today? 8-)


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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 7:10 am 
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I would consider simply finding an installation image?

I assume you want a hackintosh and not just darwin installed...
You can do very many things with darwin such as have functional PPC drivers, but it usally doesn't run real MacOSX applications... ALthough OpenOffice runs on Darwin...

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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 11:06 am 
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Well... I had hoped Darwin would include some OSX-like GUI, though that seems to not be the case.

by "hacked XWindow" I meant loosely based on XWindow but done Apple style, if that made any sense.

I don't really want a "hackintosh" as per se, I just thought to fiddle around and see what the OSX interface was like to work with/play with.

Ok, so it doesn't include a GUI, but XFree86 is ported and working.... thanks for that info. Is there a "skin" (ala Gnome, KDE, XFace) (I guess it's more called window managers than skin, but who cares :P ) that'll make X look and feel almost like a "real" OSX gui?

In the same context... is there any Amiga-ish windowmanagers around? :look (this was more like an afterthoguht and curiosity, thought when I first asked the previous question it wouldn't be a too long shot over to this one ;) )


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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 11:20 am 
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Darwin doesn't include any GUI by default, you have to install XFree86 yourself.

As for window managers, as soon as you get X running, getting a window manager/desktop environment such as GNOME, KDE, whatever working should be a matter of finding packages for Darwin or compiling their source for Darwin. :)

I could only find amiwm which is supposed to be Amiga-like. You may want to give it a shot.

You also may want to look for OpenDarwin, last release was 7.2.1, released 3 to 4 years ago. The project has shut down so it's not easy to find (at least I couldn't find it after a quick search) but it's Darwin plus some popular GNU software so that may give a more "out of the box" experience than pure Darwin.

I want to warn you though: Pure Darwin is really just the core of OS X. If at all, you can run CLI apps (or X11 apps) on it, no native OS X apps. Hardware support is not the greatest either. If you really want to test drive the OS X interface, there's no way around the original I'm afraid.

edit: To repeat it -- once you get X and a window manager running, (Open)Darwin will look pretty much like any other Unix or Linux install with a GUI. You probably won't notice the difference until you fire up a terminal :)


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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 6:21 pm 
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If you just want a window manager that looks like OSX you would probably be better off just installing some distro of Linux that includes one... or adding one into whatever Linux you prefer.

No point in installing Darwin and Xfree86 just to do that. Besides, chances are that not a single OSX application would run on that combination. If you just want to check out OSX you could install it natively or in PearPC, although don't expect it to be fully usable, and expect the performnace in PearPC to be crap.


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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 12:44 am 
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Wasn't there an "OS Beta OS" that had some kind of Windows manager with Darwin?

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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:53 am 
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Thanks, guys.

I'll have a look around for AmiWM and Slackware instead then.....

Sad,actually, about Darwin only being the underlying Un*x-ish core, and not having anything on top.

Have I said this placce (and OSBA before it) is my number one palce to look for proper information about things? I'll get it all here, from Apple to Sun Solaris.. all in one place, instead of having to search around not finding anything ;)


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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 9:36 am 
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Frozenport wrote:
Wasn't there an "OS Beta OS" that had some kind of Windows manager with Darwin?

There is OSBA OS developed by ppc_digger which is Darwin with X11 and a window manager (Fluxbox or something along these lines IIRC, correct me if I'm wrong).

Doctor Mindvipe wrote:
Sad,actually, about Darwin only being the underlying Un*x-ish core, and not having anything on top.

Yeah, but not much of a surprise really. After all, Apple have been offering this for free and you wouldn't expect them to offer anything like OS X for free - especially now that Darwin also runs on x86 boxes out of the box. Apple still want to sell Macs with OS X.

As for OpenDarwin 7.2.1, I just remembered I may have it on a CD so if you want to give it a shot I can ISO-ize and upload it.


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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 4:56 pm 
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I'll have a look.... see if it's a worthwhile thing to checkout ;)


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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 12:10 am 
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Doctor Mindvipe wrote:
Sad,actually, about Darwin only being the underlying Un*x-ish core, and not having anything on top.

If you really don't want to use a CLI, I'm pretty sure you can run interfaces such as GNOME or KDE on Darwin.

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