ReactOS - Thoughts? Have you used it?

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Karzahni
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Re: ReactOS - Thoughts? Have you used it?

Post by Karzahni »

Don't even get me started it SUCKS! It's so bad. I hate it. I liked the idea at first, but nothing works. I tried it on VBox because it wouldn't boot on VPC. The newest version of Firefox you can get from the software packages takes 4 years to install, and then it's so old it won't display anything correctly nor download half the things you try. I'd rather use Longhorn than this trash. Hell! I'd rather use Memphis!

This was the x86 version. Apparently there is a 64-bit version as well, but I'd hate to use that. I bet it's even more unstable. Here's how I'd rate the different Windows versions:
7
8
10
XP
Vista
2000
Longhorn
NT 4.0
98
ReactOS

It really is that bad. Do yourself a favor and use MS-DOS instead.

Sorry for this being such a rant but it just reflects my experience with the OS.
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AlphaBeta
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Re: ReactOS - Thoughts? Have you used it?

Post by AlphaBeta »

Maybe you should visit the ophthalmologist. The website clearly states the following:
ReactOS 0.3.17 is still in alpha stage, meaning it is not feature-complete and is recommended only for evaluation and testing purposes.
AlphaBeta, stop brainwashing me immediately!

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Karzahni
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Re: ReactOS - Thoughts? Have you used it?

Post by Karzahni »

AlphaBeta wrote:Maybe you should visit the ophthalmologist. The website clearly states the following:
ReactOS 0.3.17 is still in alpha stage, meaning it is not feature-complete and is recommended only for evaluation and testing purposes.
I've tried plenty of Windows betas before. I've never seen anything as dysfunctional as this. But alpha you say? I suppose that redeems it a bit. I seriously thought it was reasonably close to a "stable" release. Anyway, I downloaded it a long time ago and it sat around in my OSes folder, so my mistake if I've been to harsh. (But I am quite ferocious when testing OSes.)

Edit: also there is the fact that the Windows betas always had a stable release before them, so that would make a major difference.
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Re: ReactOS - Thoughts? Have you used it?

Post by Overdoze »

Please let me know when you manage to at least partially reimplement Windows NT with such limited resources that ReactOS team has. At least appreciate the effort and be aware that what they're doing is no easy task.
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Karzahni
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Re: ReactOS - Thoughts? Have you used it?

Post by Karzahni »

Overdoze wrote:Please let me know when you manage to at least partially reimplement Windows NT with such limited resources that ReactOS team has. At least appreciate the effort and be aware that what they're doing is no easy task.
I appreciate it I suppose, now that I know it's only in alpha. I thought the project was close to a proper release.

I was also comparing it to Windows betas. All of which were built on a previous stable version, that was built on a previous stable version, etc, etc. This is an alpha that's not built on anything (except Wine?) I forgot they're not Microsoft.

My new standpoint:
Considering what the team had available to them in comparison with what Microsoft have (or had in 2003, to compare, as ReactOS is attempting to duplicate Server 2003) then it's quite a good effort with huge potential. It doesn't stand up to any modern OSes, but they are all full releases, not alphas.

Might be interesting to compare to Haiku, which is also in alpha, I haven't tried that in a long time.
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Re: ReactOS - Thoughts? Have you used it?

Post by MrFreeman »

Karzahni wrote: I tried it on VBox because it wouldn't boot on VPC.
Offtopic Comment
A lot of things won't boot on VPC.
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Re: ReactOS - Thoughts? Have you used it?

Post by cantasan99 »

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Re: ReactOS - Thoughts? Have you used it?

Post by ezpz2077 »

Wow, time flies :) I've been following ReactOS on and off since before 0.2 was released, which seems to be around 2004. Back then it didn't even boot to Explorer, IIRC it just displayed a window with cmd.exe. They've made huuuuge progress since then, but unfortunately the distance is not decreasing, quite the opposite.

While I have a huge amount of admiration for the volunteers hacking on it (usually around 10 people) I can't see ReactOS reaching the critical mass anytime soon. The project is not very sexy for end users - most of the time it doesn't work reliably and when it does it just, well, behaves like Windows... So nothing really to see there for a typical user except maybe some novelty effect. It's also not likely to get any commercial support for the fear of litigation, some of the development was done using reverse engineering that wasn't even close to being 'clean room'. Lastly its major advantage over Wine, i.e. the ability to use Windows drivers, is probably completely irrelevant now given that Windows updated its driver model significantly and driver support for Linux is getting really good, at least for mainstream hardware.

Fingers crossed that they can prove me wrong :)

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Re: ReactOS - Thoughts? Have you used it?

Post by Hyoenmadan86 »

ezpz2077 wrote:Wow, time flies :) I've been following ReactOS on and off since before 0.2 was released, which seems to be around 2004. Back then it didn't even boot to Explorer, IIRC it just displayed a window with cmd.exe. They've made huuuuge progress since then, but unfortunately the distance is not decreasing, quite the opposite.

While I have a huge amount of admiration for the volunteers hacking on it (usually around 10 people) I can't see ReactOS reaching the critical mass anytime soon. The project is not very sexy for end users - most of the time it doesn't work reliably and when it does it just, well, behaves like Windows... So nothing really to see there for a typical user except maybe some novelty effect. It's also not likely to get any commercial support for the fear of litigation, some of the development was done using reverse engineering that wasn't even close to being 'clean room'. Lastly its major advantage over Wine, i.e. the ability to use Windows drivers, is probably completely irrelevant now given that Windows updated its driver model significantly and driver support for Linux is getting really good, at least for mainstream hardware.

Fingers crossed that they can prove me wrong :)
You can't be more wrong dude about this one. That accusation was made by an dev/user who wanted to hurt the whole project and it was NEVER EVER demonstrated legally by the long audit, which stopped the whole project more than a year.

Unfortunately that *[censored] idiot* did more damage than just stopping the project more than a year though. ROS team cooperation with WINE team was damaged in a severe and irreversible way by this. Many n00bs still think that the project relies in dirty room reverse techniques. Unfairly in the end probably he got what he wanted :-(.
The project is not very sexy for end users
Maybe right... Users like shiny and round things, and never see what is the stuff that makes these round and shiny things to work. That's one of the reasons why people is always complaining about Win8/10. ROS actual interface model still isn't complete enough so it can support more complex models, like UxTheme. ROS team can't complete it without more help, and people will no come to team because the OS is "ugly". Then the problem "loops".
Lastly its major advantage over Wine, i.e. the ability to use Windows drivers, is probably completely irrelevant now given that Windows updated its driver model significantly and driver support for Linux is getting really good
Linux is getting really good, at least for mainstream hardware.
Linux driver support at least in desktop/laptop world is always bad, and probably will ever be, for anything that isn't a very popular piece of hardware, Intel's or NVidia's own supported stuff by their engineers, or networking hardware. Ask AMD Radeon folks if they can take 100% advantage of their hardware. Ask Optimus users about the hacks that they need do with their laptops to run Linux on them.

From Windows ReactOS doesn't need more than their updated WDDM driver model, and maybe WinUSB for gadgets. The problem with WDDM is its closer dependency with DirectX. DirectX is a software piece that no even Wine has 100% complete. They only do D3D, and DirectX for WDDM is more than just that. ROS team want to have a complete enough implementation to make drivers than rely on it work, but as i always say, it will not be soon if no one helps to build it.

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Re: ReactOS - Thoughts? Have you used it?

Post by MrFreeman »

I disagree, the driver support in linux is pretty great. If there isn't a driver for a device on linux now, there will be one very soon.
Half-Life is a pretty good game.

Hyoenmadan86
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Re: ReactOS - Thoughts? Have you used it?

Post by Hyoenmadan86 »

MrFreeman wrote:I disagree, the driver support in linux is pretty great. If there isn't a driver for a device on linux now, there will be one very soon.
Yes and no. Is true that there are drivers for almost every existent device, but except the exceptions that i named, almost all them them are done using RE, are subpar to drivers created by the developer for windows, and will not support every feature found in the device. In other words, basic and sometimes buggy support for the devices driven by these drivers.

As i said before, ask to AMD Radeon folks, or people who need hack their systems to support Optimus in their laptops as examples. Lunux has strong points ofc, but driver support isn't one of them.

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Re: ReactOS - Thoughts? Have you used it?

Post by MrFreeman »

Hyoenmadan86 wrote:
MrFreeman wrote:I disagree, the driver support in linux is pretty great. If there isn't a driver for a device on linux now, there will be one very soon.
Yes and no. Is true that there are drivers for almost every existent device, but except the exceptions that i named, almost all them them are done using RE, are subpar to drivers created by the developer for windows, and will not support every feature found in the device. In other words, basic and sometimes buggy support for the devices driven by these drivers.

As i said before, ask to AMD Radeon folks, or people who need hack their systems to support Optimus in their laptops as examples. Lunux has strong points ofc, but driver support isn't one of them.
I have ran linux on multiple computers and NOT once have I had any buggy drivers.
Half-Life is a pretty good game.

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Re: ReactOS - Thoughts? Have you used it?

Post by ezpz2077 »

Hyoenmadan86 wrote:You can't be more wrong dude about this one. That accusation was made by an dev/user who wanted to hurt the whole project and it was NEVER EVER demonstrated legally by the long audit, which stopped the whole project more than a year.

Unfortunately that *[censored] idiot* did more damage than just stopping the project more than a year though. ROS team cooperation with WINE team was damaged in a severe and irreversible way by this. Many n00bs still think that the project relies in dirty room reverse techniques. Unfairly in the end probably he got what he wanted :-(.
I think it's pretty clear from my post that I have great respect for the project and its devs and I also believe that some of the most extreme accusations that were floating around at that time (using leaked NT4 code, widespread use of disassembly) were false.
What I wanted to point out is that 'clean room' is an extremely high standard which basically requires having two independent sets of developers: One group writing the documentation and a second one writing code based on that doc (ideally not even using the system being replicated for testing). This is only practical for very well funded projects or for relatively small tasks. Unfortunately I think this high standard is what might be required to get a serious commercial backer, which makes it a bit into a chicken and egg problem.

Cheers (B)

EDIT: fixed typo :$

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Re: ReactOS - Thoughts? Have you used it?

Post by amjrl »

Hi everyone, I ran react os on one of my new systems and it works really good the only problem I had was the graphics, the system I ran it on was, AMD FX 6300 Six-Core Processor 3.50Ghz with RAM at 16GB and a 2TB Hard drive and GT740 2GB graphics card. :)

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Re: ReactOS - Thoughts? Have you used it?

Post by ezpz2077 »

0.4.0 was officially released today <:o) (^) (B)
Here's the announcement with the impressive list of features that have been added during the 0.3.x development cycle. The release is available here (for some reason the VirtualBox image is not present there, despite a link on the downloads page - probably just an oversight).

I haven't had the time to look at the final release yet, but judging from RC2 it should be a really well polished one. If you haven't tried ReactOS yet this might be a really good time to do so :)

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Re: ReactOS - Thoughts? Have you used it?

Post by Roo_the_Vickty »

I wonder if they will poke into doing DWM or this must be NT 5 pure clone

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Re: ReactOS - Thoughts? Have you used it?

Post by jimmsta »

ROS still needs the ability to resize the partition on-the-fly. Actually, attempting to resize the partition using something like gParted ends with a non-booting system. It would be great if ROS was a full replacement for Windows PE, since it could be utilized as a recovery environment without the need to license WinPE from Microsoft. This alone would increase the amount of people using ROS, and possibly attract more developers to it.

0.4.0 does seem a bit more stable that earlier builds. The XP-style themes service seems to work pretty well, surprisingly. The default classic theme doesn't seem to work right with firefox's windows controls, but installing an xp theme seems to resolve this. Very strange behavior there, but maybe it's a known issue.

That all said, ROS is certainly in a better spot than it was in the last release - SATA support, audio support, usb support - lots of important bits and pieces that are very useful from a usability perspective. If only some of the lower-level bits of the OS were more polished. I don't get why either FUSE or NTFS-3G hasn't been implemented instead of the current NTFS driver that is included. I suppose they want to go the full NT-route, and write their own driver from the ground up, but when there's already solutions out there that work quite well on other systems, it really makes ROS seem behind.

If only I could grasp basic C/C++ programming, and fix these issues myself :/
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Re: ReactOS - Thoughts? Have you used it?

Post by Overdoze »

Reading through that changelog, I must say it is impressive. I'll give 0.4.0 a spin later today. :)

However, the following caught my attention:
And one of the biggest advantages to the way in which NTVDM is implemented in ReactOS is that support for it will continue on non IA-32 platforms, including AMD64 and even ARM.
Would be interesting to see how they implement it, especially on ARM. Also, it's hopeless to think this could actually replace Windows on a large scale, but as jimmsta said, if they manage to improve it further, it could become a viable, Windows-compatible option for embedded or recovery environments.
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Re: ReactOS - Thoughts? Have you used it?

Post by ezpz2077 »

Overdoze wrote:Would be interesting to see how they implement it, especially on ARM. Also, it's hopeless to think this could actually replace Windows on a large scale, but as jimmsta said, if they manage to improve it further, it could become a viable, Windows-compatible option for embedded or recovery environments.
I found a couple recent blog posts about ReactOS' NTVDM, especially the last one seems very informative:

https://www.reactos.org/node/794
http://community.reactos.org/index.php/ ... vdm-part-1
http://community.reactos.org/index.php/ ... vdm-part-2

It looks like they decided to do something similar to DOSBox, probably a good decision as it simplifies some aspects of development (no special kernel support needed for v86 mode).

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Re: ReactOS - Thoughts? Have you used it?

Post by Overdoze »

Yeah I figured they'd just emulate the whole environment. I'm fine with that as long as performance doesn't suffer because of it...
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Re: ReactOS - Thoughts? Have you used it?

Post by badmoon »

Overdoze wrote:Would be interesting to see how they implement it, especially on ARM.
Surprisingly, the implementation probably won't be that different from platform to platform!

ReactOS' targets are quite similar to each other, and DOS only ran on comparatively simple hardware. There's no need to worry about the really difficult emulation problems, like synchronizing timings between multiple processor cores or dealing with alien memory management—and those complicated emulations tend to be pretty reliant on the underlying host. Furthermore, ARM can operate in either little- or big-endian mode; which means that, between x86 and ARM, some important assumptions about the host processor wouldn't have to be changed.

There are a lot of lucky breaks with regards to the hardware, both native and emulated—though that's not to say there won't be challenges in the development of NTVDM. It really will be interesting to see how they do do it!

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Re: ReactOS - Thoughts? Have you used it?

Post by ThePagel »

Why would the developers want to dive into arm territory right now? Isn't the reasoning behind reactos to run software that is meant to run on windows but in a non microsoft environment? They haven't quite got the whole x86 thing down yet, arm would be a leap for them.

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Re: ReactOS - Thoughts? Have you used it?

Post by ezpz2077 »

ThePagel wrote:Why would the developers want to dive into arm territory right now? Isn't the reasoning behind reactos to run software that is meant to run on windows but in a non microsoft environment? They haven't quite got the whole x86 thing down yet, arm would be a leap for them.
ReactOS has been ported to ARM to some degree already. This was done before Windows had an official ARM port (Windows RT) and I'm not sure if they are ABI compatible.
I don't know what the state is for that port, but it looks that the developers are occasionally fixing ARM build issues, so I assume it's still alive. Never had a chance to play with it myself, if you're interested these are the bootstrap instructions: https://www.reactos.org/wiki/ARM_Port .

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Re: ReactOS - Thoughts? Have you used it?

Post by Princess Cadence »

Terra854 wrote:And even worse... they require clean-room reverse engineering of the source code which I think is the most fatal mistake the developers have ever made.
why would we donate bitcoins to you when we get them. And this comment is irrelevant so is your post.

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Re: ReactOS - Thoughts? Have you used it?

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Noone here has mentioned bitcoins. And please, let's keep civil and not backseat moderate. Warning issued.
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