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 PostPost subject: ReactOS - Thoughts? Have you used it?        Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 12:29 am 
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ReactOS is an open-source computer operating system intended to be binary compatible with application software and device drivers made for Microsoft Windows NT versions 5.x and up

- Wikipedia

I've never actually tried it and I know it is still in Alpha (and has been for many many years).

Has anyone here ever tried it? If so, what did you think of it? Do you think it could ever become a useable OS?

Website: http://www.reactos.org/


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 PostPost subject: Re: ReactOS - Thoughts? Have you used it?        Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 12:50 am 
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here is a video i made acting as a average computer user: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vP2zdK-5YGw

good points: Reactos is fairly complete,it runs a wide variety of apps,it supports windows XP themes,it has a great "app store" like app.
bad points: it doesn't fully support Direct X,it only bundles a few basic drivers,it has poor USB and SATA support,getting audio to work is very patchy.

i have been considering creating a custom distro of ReactOS using ReactOS core files with a Windows xp shell.it should be that hard to do,if did you the reverse (winXP core files with ReactOS shell) then it wouldn't be Reactos anymore.

Download it and try it: https://www.reactos.org/download

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 PostPost subject: Re: ReactOS - Thoughts? Have you used it?        Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 1:00 am 
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It kind of sucks for me. It just looked old, Unix-like. It was ugly.

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 PostPost subject: Re: ReactOS - Thoughts? Have you used it?        Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 2:45 am 
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I was curious about this OS so I gave it a try. I think this OS is just not practical for any use besides playing around with it. I do not think it could become a usable OS due to the fact that it is just a incomplete unstylish old Windows clone. The web browser was hidden and when I found it it did not load pages. I also found it to be missing a critical feature such as the ability to browse other computers on the same network. Another concern I have is security. Being based off Windows it seems that it is able to be exposed to the same threats as a Windows XP machine. Since this is not supported by Microsoft there is not guarantee it is going to be safe. There is also no guarantee that anti-viruses will work correctly since it was not made with that OS in mind. I think it would be more practical to just use Linux for free.


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 PostPost subject: Re: ReactOS - Thoughts? Have you used it?        Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 2:45 am 
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iv used it for many years works good for some things others not so much however they are working on a new front end see http://community.reactos.org/


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 PostPost subject: Re: ReactOS - Thoughts? Have you used it?        Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 3:10 am 
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FlyGuy wrote:
I do not think it could become a usable OS due to the fact that it is just a incomplete unstylish old Windows clone.

I wouldn't complain too much about it being unstylish - these things can be fixed, and it has already been mentioned that it supports XP themes.

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Another concern I have is security. Being based off Windows it seems that it is able to be exposed to the same threats as a Windows XP machine. Since this is not supported by Microsoft there is not guarantee it is going to be safe.

Are you saying there is something inherently insecure about the design of Windows? I would think that so long as ReactOS lets you run as a non-Administrator user, that would be a good start. I would have thought that it's more about the implementation than the fact that it's based on the design of Windows.

I haven't actually tried it myself, and I won't unless I feel at some point I have time to actually fix things in it, but it doesn't seem like a pointless project to me - if they can get it done, there are probably lots of people running unsupported XP now who'd probably prefer to use something supported.


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 PostPost subject: Re: ReactOS - Thoughts? Have you used it?        Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 5:31 am 
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ExplicitNuM5 wrote:
It kind of sucks for me. It just looked old, Unix-like. It was ugly.


yea, and that REALLY effects how stable and secure and useable it is 8-) ,sounds like you should buy a mac.

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Last edited by betaluva on Fri Apr 25, 2014 5:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 PostPost subject: Re: ReactOS - Thoughts? Have you used it?        Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 5:34 am 
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DOS wrote:
FlyGuy wrote:
I do not think it could become a usable OS due to the fact that it is just a incomplete unstylish old Windows clone.

I wouldn't complain too much about it being unstylish - these things can be fixed, and it has already been mentioned that it supports XP themes.

Quote:
Another concern I have is security. Being based off Windows it seems that it is able to be exposed to the same threats as a Windows XP machine. Since this is not supported by Microsoft there is not guarantee it is going to be safe.

Are you saying there is something inherently insecure about the design of Windows? I would think that so long as ReactOS lets you run as a non-Administrator user, that would be a good start. I would have thought that it's more about the implementation than the fact that it's based on the design of Windows.

I haven't actually tried it myself, and I won't unless I feel at some point I have time to actually fix things in it, but it doesn't seem like a pointless project to me - if they can get it done, there are probably lots of people running unsupported XP now who'd probably prefer to use something supported.

I don't think that Windows its self is designed in a insecure way although part of Windows design allows it to receive updates to keep it secure and in modern Windows builds this security is expanded with a build in anti-virus. ReactOS does not receive those updates so a old exploit could be taken advantage of. I agree that it would probably significantly more secure to have a non-admin account. Also isn't ReactOS somewhat based off XP so it can run Windows applications?


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 PostPost subject: Re: ReactOS - Thoughts? Have you used it?        Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 5:38 am 
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"isn't ReactOS based off XP? NO", it is completely non-Microsoft code, it isn't a Windows XP clone,it is a Windows 2003 clone that can be used as a server or client OS.

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 PostPost subject: Re: ReactOS - Thoughts? Have you used it?        Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 5:42 am 
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betaluva wrote:
"isn't ReactOS based off XP? NO", it is completely non-Microsoft code, it isn't a Windows XP clone,it is a Windows 2003 clone that can be used as a server or client OS.

Ahh alright. I figured it had to be based off some Windows build.


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 PostPost subject: Re: ReactOS - Thoughts? Have you used it?        Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 6:27 am 
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betaluva wrote:
yea, and that REALLY effects how stable and secure and useable it is 8-) ,sounds like you should buy a mac.


8-) Back to you. I DID have a hard time dealing with drivers in the OS. AND YES, I'm using a Hackintosh right now. Although with Windows bootcamp. I like them both, but it was just giving me such a hard time. And it's a bit unstable, though I can imagine it being more secure because it wasn't a target at all.

And it's based on NT core, just in case you guys were wondering. It's not a clone, it's more of an open-source port.

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 PostPost subject: Re: ReactOS - Thoughts? Have you used it?        Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 1:05 pm 
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clone, OSS Port, (6||1/2dozen||other). The point is, the themes don't matter, an OS should be functional, stable, and secure first, pretty later. You don't really need the resource-hogging crap... Betaluva is right here.

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Last edited by user99672 on Tue May 06, 2014 3:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 PostPost subject: Re: ReactOS - Thoughts? Have you used it?        Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 2:47 pm 
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I agree with user99672 on that one.

ExplicitNuM5 wrote:
And it's based on NT core, just in case you guys were wondering. It's not a clone, it's more of an open-source port.

What? It is a clone of NT 5.2.

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 PostPost subject: Re: ReactOS - Thoughts? Have you used it?        Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 3:30 pm 
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betaluva wrote:
here is a video i made acting as a average computer user: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vP2zdK-5YGw

good points: Reactos is fairly complete,it runs a wide variety of apps,it supports windows XP themes,it has a great "app store" like app.
bad points: it doesn't fully support Direct X,it only bundles a few basic drivers,it has poor USB and SATA support,getting audio to work is very patchy.

i have been considering creating a custom distro of ReactOS using ReactOS core files with a Windows xp shell.it should be that hard to do,if did you the reverse (winXP core files with ReactOS shell) then it wouldn't be Reactos anymore.

Download it and try it: https://www.reactos.org/download


I'd love to be able to contribute to the project, though I can't reverse or code in anything other than C#, but that video is quite interesting, looks like it's quite functional, is that the same version of paint from XP that you open near the end of the video? Surely there'd be copyright issues there if they included it by default


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 PostPost subject: Re: ReactOS - Thoughts? Have you used it?        Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 4:26 pm 
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I would say one of the design flaws of Windows that can be argued as insecure is that it only has ring 0 and ring 3 in the protection ring stack.

Also, to note, ReactOS will never be a full replacement for Windows. While the core may be there, thousands or libraries are nothing more than proxies that do nothing. Things like MFC, ATL, ADO, Terminal Services, etc area as large a project as the ReactOS kernel and will likely never be seen as implemented. This is doubly bad because Microsoft licensing prohibits distributing these DLLs to non-windows systems, so you can't legally use them even if they are packed with an application. This prohibits things like distributing a bootcd with ReactOS that is meant to flash your firmware, which uses MFC (as an example)


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 PostPost subject: Re: ReactOS - Thoughts? Have you used it?        Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 5:00 pm 
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I think you should not use it for everyday use. Things I have noticed:
-Office 2003: Installs but setup can't register a module, when I try to change or uninstall, in wizard, I get a BSoD. And you can't use the system again unless you make a update or clean install.
-Windows Installer needs improvements.
-DirectX needs improvements.
-Shell uses an internet explorer, also back button doesn't work. Shell is very bad.
-There is no drag-and-drop support.
-When copying a file, system freezes because there is no action or dialog box during copy/cut.
-Wine Internet Explorer is bad.
-Many XP components didn't included.
-Application compatibility is very bad.
-Hardware compatibility is bad.
-No NTFS support, bad USB support.
-Kernel (NTOSKRNL) is very bad and unstable, because most of crashes causes from kernel.

I think ReactOS 1.0 will be ready at least in 2020, they need to add XP components, improve application and hardware compatibility. And they should get new programmers otherwise they will need to abandon the project!

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 PostPost subject: Re: ReactOS - Thoughts? Have you used it?        Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 5:05 pm 
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And even worse... they require clean-room reverse engineering of the source code which I think is the most fatal mistake the developers have ever made.


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 PostPost subject: Re: ReactOS - Thoughts? Have you used it?        Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 6:12 pm 
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People, why are you expecting an alpha release to be stable and support every piece of software? It's an alpha. Not even beta.

Terra854 wrote:
And even worse... they require clean-room reverse engineering of the source code which I think is the most fatal mistake the developers have ever made.

Copy-pasting Windows source code wouldn't make it ReactOS anymore. Plus Microsoft would most likely sue ReactOS.

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 PostPost subject: Re: ReactOS - Thoughts? Have you used it?        Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 6:16 pm 
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Also, they deliberately moved to the clean-room model because there were growing legal problems with the project - the sort that come when you copy and paste proprietary code and claim it as your own and release it under an open-source licence.



Cantasan, thank you for your wise and insightful post. Ever since you first joined BA, I have eagerly awaited your posts. They are a constant source of learning for me. Your list of things that are described as "bad" by yourself is extremely helpful, and a list the ReactOS developers would be wise to read themselves. Your final remarks on the future of the project are superlative. These things never occurred to anyone who has used ReactOS before. Especially realising "1.0" in 2020, as if this means something.

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 PostPost subject: Re: ReactOS - Thoughts? Have you used it?        Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 7:45 pm 
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hounsell wrote:
Also, they deliberately moved to the clean-room model because there were growing legal problems with the project - the sort that come when you copy and paste proprietary code and claim it as your own and release it under an open-source licence.



Cantasan, thank you for your wise and insightful post. Ever since you first joined BA, I have eagerly awaited your posts. They are a constant source of learning for me. Your list of things that are described as "bad" by yourself is extremely helpful, and a list the ReactOS developers would be wise to read themselves. Your final remarks on the future of the project are superlative. These things never occurred to anyone who has used ReactOS before. Especially realising "1.0" in 2020, as if this means something.


Thanks for starting up my humor modules.

These results are from my small tests, I haven't done a big test. I plan to do it, so I can write a good report.

About "they will Release ReactOS at least in 2020", I said it because they are too slow, I think. I used my sense of humor -however, it's not good-.

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 PostPost subject: Re: ReactOS - Thoughts? Have you used it?        Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 11:37 pm 
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I've got mad respect for the ReactOS devs...
Why?
Well, first off, to write a multitasking graphical OS is no small feat in itself, but the fact that they're making their OS mimic the kernel design and user space of a closed-source proprietary OS just makes that an even bigger feat.
Also I don't think these people are getting paid to do this, and one cannot pay rent and by food with lines of GPL-licensed code, so clearly the developers have other things that they need to do and can't be working on it night and day.

So of course ReactOS is gonna be buggy and take forever to get to somewhere on par with XP/2003.
If you don't like it, instead of complaining, try donating to the project (Link 1 - Link 2) or contributing to the development of the OS, and maybe the bugs will get fixed faster.


And if you're still going to complain about it, I'd like to see what a mess of code you'd write for a NT clone OS.
For ~98 to 99% of the people on this site, myself included, it probably wouldn't even compile properly, let alone boot up.
^ I'd really love to see someone take that up as a challenge though, it might be pretty cool

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 PostPost subject: Re: ReactOS - Thoughts? Have you used it?        Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 1:22 am 
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ditto on everything Marcello said.

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 PostPost subject: Re: ReactOS - Thoughts? Have you used it?        Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 4:18 am 
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FlyGuy wrote:
I don't think that Windows its self is designed in a insecure way although part of Windows design allows it to receive updates to keep it secure and in modern Windows builds this security is expanded with a build in anti-virus. ReactOS does not receive those updates so a old exploit could be taken advantage of. [...] Also isn't ReactOS somewhat based off XP so it can run Windows applications?

As already mentioned, it's not exactly "based on" XP. It's designed to have the same APIs as some version of Windows, but it's written from scratch (otherwise, as already mentioned, they would get in trouble with Microsoft). Since it's written from scratch, Microsoft's patches/fixes aren't of any use. Any bugs in ReactOS will need their own patches/fixes. Some might suggest that since ReactOS is open source it might have fewer bugs to begin with, but that would be a big topic of debate :)

user99672 wrote:
clone, OSS Port, (6||1/2dozen||other).

Not really:
- "porting" is something you do when you have the original code and you modify or adapt it to work on another platform, etc. (Wikipedia source)
- "cloning" is when you create some hardware or software that is designed to mimic some other hardware/software (Wikipedia source)

The ReactOS website says it is "Written completely from scratch" but is "binary compatible with Windows", so unless they're lying, it's more like a clone, and definitely not a port.

Terra854 wrote:
And even worse... they require clean-room reverse engineering of the source code which I think is the most fatal mistake the developers have ever made.

Well they would never get it finished if they just copied Windows code because Microsoft would take the whole project down! At least this way there's some small amount of hope of getting something completed.

Marcello wrote:
try donating to the project

As much as I like open source, I think I'll get a better return on investment by continuing to give my cash to Microsoft occasionally (every 10 years?) :(

Quote:
And if you're still going to complain about it, I'd like to see what a mess of code you'd write for a NT clone OS.
For ~98 to 99% of the people on this site, myself included, it probably wouldn't even compile properly, let alone boot up.

I'm pretty sure I could do a reasonable job of this if I didn't have a job or family and someone cooked all my meals and did all my cleaning :)

Quote:
^ I'd really love to see someone take that up as a challenge though, it might be pretty cool

I would not like to see that, I'd rather see someone who could do that put their talents into ReactOS! Surely the world doesn't need someone starting from scratch on yet another OS that isn't even aiming to have a new design. I'm not saying I think I'm entitled to contorl over what people do for fun and I'm sure it would be a fun project, but I suspect anyone starting from scratch, for fun, is probably going to take a long time to get anywhere near as far as ReactOS.


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 PostPost subject: Re: ReactOS - Thoughts? Have you used it?        Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 6:39 pm 
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DOS wrote:
Marcello wrote:
try donating to the project
As much as I like open source, I think I'll get a better return on investment by continuing to give my cash to Microsoft occasionally (every 10 years?) :(

Well yea, I feel you on that, I'm the same way. I was more directing that to people complaining about the OS being buggy and incomplete without taking into account the nature of the project, like comments like:
Quote:
And they should get new programmers otherwise they will need to abandon the project!

^ because, like yea, they can totally just head down to the programmer store, hand them some of the mountains of money that they clearly have, get some new programmers, and get it all done super fast so that none of us have to pay for windows anymore. That's *exactly* what they need to do. 8-)




FlyGuy wrote:
I was curious about this OS so I gave it a try. I think this OS is just not practical for any use besides playing around with it. I do not think it could become a usable OS due to the fact that it is just a incomplete unstylish old Windows clone.

I disagree with your argument, but not fully.
I would agree that it probably won't become a fully blown usable desktop OS for home users, especially given that the NT Kernel & the Windows environment is getting updated the time and many desktop apps will likely drop support for WIndows 5.x OSes in the coming years -- and ReactOS has not even come up to compatibility with that yet.

However, that does not mean ReactOS will be completely useless. It still may have a life in embedded systems for business/other purposes - especially if ports to platforms like ARM are made. It's quite lightweight, which is good for such purposes. And in that case, the "unstylish" GUI may be of no concern, or even completely not visible.

And there would be many benefits to the use of ReactOS in an embedded setting:
  • It's open source, so bits of the software could be optimized to work better with specific hardware and software requirements
  • It's Windows-like, so developers not familiar with *nix programming could develop more embedded applications
  • Again, it's ridiculously lightweight compared to Windows
  • As for an ARM port, compared to Windows RT, it's not locked down to specific hardware and metro-only 3rd party apps, and also ^ Lightweight, like I've mentioned numerous times

So it is quite possible that ReactOS will be useable in specialized applications like that.

Also, it's gonna be interesting to see what 0.4 brings to the table.

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 PostPost subject: Re: ReactOS - Thoughts? Have you used it?        Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 8:48 pm 
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I think its a step forward away from Microsoft in a way. Its a great OS, in my opinion ive used it on my laptop, however my main computer is having trouble, (Its not playing along with my 7850 very well) In total, if there was more work done to it, i would do a complete switch!

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