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 PostPost subject: “Windows 7 Is The Same As Ubuntu” - ZDNET Representative        Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 2:58 am 
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ZDNET claims that to an average teenager, Windows 7 is the same as Ubuntu

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[my son] said “Windows 7 is the same as Ubuntu; there just really isn’t anything different about them.” Of course there isn’t. He lives in a web browser. The underlying OS is irrelevant. He has no need for Office 2007 and I expect his next portable music player will be platform independent.


A ZDNET representative installed Ubuntu 8.10 on his sons laptop for a few months, then installed Windows 7. Apparently to an average 17 year old there was no difference between Ubuntu and Win7 [stating, however that their underlying architectures are quite a bit different and Gnome looks different to Windows 7]. The main difference being his son's Zune didn't work terribly well on Ubuntu; the representative said his son [and therefore the average teenager] has no need for Office 2007 (apparently not educated in the world of WINE) and expects his sons next MP3 player will be platform independent.

He summed up his post noting that for the average student, the Windows vs Mac vs Linux flamewar may finally be dead [because they're effectively the same].

Source:ZDNET Education

--------------

The sourced article above seems to have been written by a backseat driver, not knowing that Office 2007 can run fine on Ubuntu 8.10 through WINE. The author appears to believe that most seventeen year olds don't need Office 2007 - Office 2007 is widespread, and most MSOffice using teenagers wouldn't be impressed if you sat them down at OpenOffice.

It seems odd the authors son uses Meebo full-time as a IM portal; that's definately not the average teenager he's trying to portray... The average teen wouldn't accept Meebo or Pidgin because of a lack of percieved benefits, despite the liberty and libre of these solutions. Then again, maybe the average seventeen year old socialite enjoys using web-based MSN clients and is fully open to a new User Interface just for lulz, in that case things have radically changed from the days of "what've you done to my computer?!?".

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 PostPost subject: Re: “Windows 7 Is The Same As Ubuntu” - ZDNET Representative        Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 3:05 am 
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Andrew wrote:
ZDNET claims that to an average teenager, Windows 7 is the same as Ubuntu

A ZDNET representative installed Ubuntu 8.10 on his sons laptop for a few months, then installed Windows 7. Apparently to an average 17 year old there was no difference between Ubuntu and Win7 [stating, however that their underlying architectures are quite a bit different and Gnome looks different to Windows 7]. The main difference being his son's Zune didn't work terribly well on Ubuntu; the representative said his son [and therefore the average teenager] has no need for Office 2007 (apparently not educated in the world of WINE) and expects his sons next MP3 player will be platform independent.

He summed up his post noting that for the average student, the Windows vs Mac vs Linux flamewar may finally be dead [because they're effectively the same].

Source:ZDNET Education


This is crap. Seriously. Ubuntu cant run a lot of windows apps. Teenagers use lots of aim, facebook, etc and other crap.

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 PostPost subject: Re: “Windows 7 Is The Same As Ubuntu” - ZDNET Representative        Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 3:15 am 
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motherboardlove wrote:
This is crap. Seriously. Ubuntu cant run a lot of windows apps. Teenagers use lots of aim, facebook, etc and other crap.


There isn't any need to run Windows apps when you can find replacements for Linux


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 PostPost subject: Re: “Windows 7 Is The Same As Ubuntu” - ZDNET Representative        Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 3:18 am 
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I've added my opinion to the bottom of that post, then again, it does sound like a ZDNET blogger is trying to trump up his blog views. I'm pretty sure most people can identify the route similarities between all Operating Systems, as anyone could identify the route similarities in how to drive different makes of automatic cars and the likes.

I don't think I made it clear why I disagree with the author, most teenagers not only don't like pointless change, but, quite sensibly would object to it. Especially when it means losing aesthetics.

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 PostPost subject: Re: “Windows 7 Is The Same As Ubuntu” - ZDNET Representative        Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 3:43 am 
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OK, I was actually Dual Booting Ubuntu 9.04 and Windows 7. I had a theme applied on Ubuntu that kinda looked like Windows 7 and I changed the giant windows 7 logo background on Win7 7264. I then booted into each OS while my 18yr son was out of the room, I asked him what was what. He agreed that the UI was similar but he was able to guess what was linux and what was windows. He then told me that he thought it was kinda cool how people could make Ubuntu look like Win7 and release it for free.

Long story short, the ZDNET guy's son just doesn't give a damn as long as he has Yahoo Instant Messanger and Twitter.


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 PostPost subject: Re: “Windows 7 Is The Same As Ubuntu” - ZDNET Representative        Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 3:56 am 
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Ubuntu can run windows apps through the use of linux apps such as wine or cedega. However no way is ubuntu ever going to be the same as windows 7 especially for teenagers. Most teenagers are to lazy or lack the knowledge to get ubuntu to run the same as windows 7 e.g. In normal (customized) ubuntu you have to actually download the codecs to play mp3. Also there is a lot of use of terminal (command prompt in ubuntu) ubuntu if you want it to run like windows 7.


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 PostPost subject: Re: “Windows 7 Is The Same As Ubuntu” - ZDNET Representative        Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 4:02 am 
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nookupeous wrote:
Long story short, the ZDNET guy's son just doesn't give a damn as long as he has Yahoo Instant Messanger and Twitter.


Pretty much.

That's mainly all that your "typical" computer user is using. It doesn't matter if you're using Facebook, Twitter, ect on Windows, Mac OS X, Linux, Unix, ect. All they need is a relatively up-to-date web browser and Java. Give them an e-mail client and Open Office, and they are set.

Most people use Windows because that's what comes on their computer. It does what they need it to, even though other OSes can also do what they need to do.

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Ubuntu can run windows apps through the use of linux apps such as wine or cedega. However no way is ubuntu ever going to be the same as windows 7 especially for teenagers. Most teenagers are to lazy or lack the knowledge to get ubuntu to run the same as windows 7 e.g. In normal (customized) ubuntu you have to actually download the codecs to play mp3. Also there is a lot of use of terminal (command prompt in ubuntu) ubuntu if you want it to run like windows 7.


Not really. The only time you really need to go into the Terminal is to compile a program, which is pretty rare. But you can download the codecs easily through the program manager in Ubuntu IIRC. And Installation is extremely straight forward, and programs like Pidgin, Firefox, Thunderbird and Open Office are pre-loaded.


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 PostPost subject: Re: “Windows 7 Is The Same As Ubuntu” - ZDNET Representative        Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 4:23 am 
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I noticed that gaming under Ubuntu is not mentioned. I think typical teenagers also play games on their computer (non-flash games that require installation), and I believe in terms of gaming, Ubuntu is not a very good option?

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 PostPost subject: Re: “Windows 7 Is The Same As Ubuntu” - ZDNET Representative        Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 4:36 am 
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I can STRONGLY confirm that. I have Ubuntu and couldn't run a god-damn San Andreas with Wine. Steam needed .Net, installed it with winetricks, tried to launch a game and it freezes, CRAP. Ubuntu is NOT for gaming. Although it has some GREAT desktop effects :D I also downloaded O'Reilly's e-book "Learning the bash shell" to learn bash and learned very interesting things :)


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 PostPost subject: Re: “Windows 7 Is The Same As Ubuntu” - ZDNET Representative        Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 5:05 am 
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Thlump wrote:
I noticed that gaming under Ubuntu is not mentioned. I think typical teenagers also play games on their computer (non-flash games that require installation), and I believe in terms of gaming, Ubuntu is not a very good option?


The typical teenager has an xBox360/PS3 and they make fun of the teenagers who play games with a mouse and a keyboard. ;) :P


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 PostPost subject: Re: “Windows 7 Is The Same As Ubuntu” - ZDNET Representative        Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 6:07 am 
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Ambig wrote:
Thlump wrote:
I noticed that gaming under Ubuntu is not mentioned. I think typical teenagers also play games on their computer (non-flash games that require installation), and I believe in terms of gaming, Ubuntu is not a very good option?


The typical teenager has an xBox360/PS3 and they make fun of the teenagers who play games with a mouse and a keyboard. ;) :P


That is not true... i know tons of kids who prefer using the keyboard and mouse over an xbox or ps3 (plus a high ene computer has better graphics.

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 PostPost subject: Re: “Windows 7 Is The Same As Ubuntu” - ZDNET Representative        Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 10:41 am 
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I also know plenty of teenagers that use PC to game, though most admittedly use Consoles more.

I can't see a teenager here being able to live without the proper WLM client too.

Also, the problem is he's essentially saying they're the same because they're both different to the current mainstream. That situation will change. As Windows 7 becomes more and more mainstream, people will want the smaller benefits in 7 more, like Jumplists and the like. Just like how I can no longer stand an Office Suite without a Ribbon, because I've been exclusively using the Ribbon almost since launch. Soon, 7 will be mainstream and will be perceived as 'normal', whereas Linux will still be different, and therefore will be considered a more complex and user-unfriendly OS.

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 PostPost subject: Re: “Windows 7 Is The Same As Ubuntu” - ZDNET Representative        Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 11:48 am 
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Thlump wrote:
I noticed that gaming under Ubuntu is not mentioned. I think typical teenagers also play games on their computer (non-flash games that require installation), and I believe in terms of gaming, Ubuntu is not a very good option?


There are a lot open source games available for Linux, like Racer for example and many many more.
But if i want to run GTA IV or Far Cry 2 i don't think it will run that well in Wine.
Flashgames are just for kids at the age of 5+.

Quote:
The typical teenager has an xBox360/PS3 and they make fun of the teenagers who play games with a mouse and a keyboard. ;) :P


Well i don't need any console, because i prefer the keyboard & mouse, as well as the graphic that a gamer pc can create ;)

And you can play pirate game copys on the PC, on the console you will need a mod chip...

PC for the WIN ;)

But please keep in Ontopic, we were talking about Ubuntu


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 PostPost subject: Re: “Windows 7 Is The Same As Ubuntu” - ZDNET Representative        Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 1:17 pm 
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Sports8632 wrote:
Ambig wrote:
Thlump wrote:
I noticed that gaming under Ubuntu is not mentioned. I think typical teenagers also play games on their computer (non-flash games that require installation), and I believe in terms of gaming, Ubuntu is not a very good option?


The typical teenager has an xBox360/PS3 and they make fun of the teenagers who play games with a mouse and a keyboard. ;) :P


That is not true... i know tons of kids who prefer using the keyboard and mouse over an xbox or ps3 (plus a high ene computer has better graphics.


I would like the option to use the keyboard as the controller on a PS3.


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 PostPost subject: Re: “Windows 7 Is The Same As Ubuntu” - ZDNET Representative        Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 1:47 pm 
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4512jth wrote:
motherboardlove wrote:
This is crap. Seriously. Ubuntu cant run a lot of windows apps. Teenagers use lots of aim, facebook, etc and other crap.


There isn't any need to run Windows apps when you can find replacements for Linux



Its harder to install on linux you do things like
tar -xzsf
./configure
./install

Ive used Linux before..

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 PostPost subject: Re: “Windows 7 Is The Same As Ubuntu” - ZDNET Representative        Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 2:16 pm 
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motherboardlove wrote:
4512jth wrote:
motherboardlove wrote:
This is crap. Seriously. Ubuntu cant run a lot of windows apps. Teenagers use lots of aim, facebook, etc and other crap.


There isn't any need to run Windows apps when you can find replacements for Linux



Its harder to install on linux you do things like
tar -xzsf
./configure
./install

Ive used Linux before..

Clearly a long time ago 8-)

Linux is relatively usefriendly now....but doesn't feel anywhere as polished as OSX / 7

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 PostPost subject: Re: “Windows 7 Is The Same As Ubuntu” - ZDNET Representative        Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 3:19 pm 
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motherboardlove wrote:
4512jth wrote:
motherboardlove wrote:
This is crap. Seriously. Ubuntu cant run a lot of windows apps. Teenagers use lots of aim, facebook, etc and other crap.


There isn't any need to run Windows apps when you can find replacements for Linux



Its harder to install on linux you do things like
tar -xzsf
./configure
./install

Ive used Linux before..


You needn't compile everything. Most distributions has repositories with binaries. You do apt-get install xxx or yum install xxx or other commands in pacman or whatever, and the program you want downloads and installs itself. Only distributions like Gentoo require compiling. Although when you want to use a very old piece of soft that's a few years old you usually need to compile (although I haven't had to do that, even though I've used Linux a while now).
I forgot, you don't even have to use text interface to install, you can do everything from graphic package manager, e.g. Synaptic, KPackage etc.


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 PostPost subject: Re: “Windows 7 Is The Same As Ubuntu” - ZDNET Representative        Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 4:29 pm 
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One big issue of linux is the lack of userfriendly wizards, native support for some things (like LDAP), the availbility of 300+ different distro's and if something goes wrong you must use the bash shell to restore things or reinstall the system and lose your files.


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 PostPost subject: Re: “Windows 7 Is The Same As Ubuntu” - ZDNET Representative        Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 6:32 pm 
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hounsell wrote:
I can't see a teenager here being able to live without the proper WLM client too.


For your information, this fourteen-year-old uses Pidgin. Seriously. (I just like Pidgin, and since I have several different IM accounts using the 'proper' clients would use up CPU time and RAM. Also, I don't care for the certain that-IM-client-only features. Do I care if my friend on WLM can't play noughts-and-crosses with me cause I use Pidgin ? No. IM is for chatting, webcams sux0r and noughts-and-crosses and the like just distract me from what I want to do.)

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 PostPost subject: Re: “Windows 7 Is The Same As Ubuntu” - ZDNET Representative        Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 6:59 pm 
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Christopher Dawson is the biggest tool on ZNDET, no questions asked. I wish he'd quietly go away or get fired already.


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 PostPost subject: Re: “Windows 7 Is The Same As Ubuntu” - ZDNET Representative        Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 3:22 am 
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The Distractor wrote:
hounsell wrote:
I can't see a teenager here being able to live without the proper WLM client too.


For your information, this fourteen-year-old uses Pidgin. Seriously. (I just like Pidgin, and since I have several different IM accounts using the 'proper' clients would use up CPU time and RAM. Also, I don't care for the certain that-IM-client-only features. Do I care if my friend on WLM can't play noughts-and-crosses with me cause I use Pidgin ? No. IM is for chatting, webcams sux0r and noughts-and-crosses and the like just distract me from what I want to do.)


The majority of teenagers aren't as smart in using computers as the media makes them out to be. Hence most teenagers wont be able to live without WLM for their IM


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 PostPost subject: Re: “Windows 7 Is The Same As Ubuntu” - ZDNET Representative        Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 4:49 am 
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As a delegate for about 12 teenagers who "borrowed" my laptop over the course of the schoolyear last year, they all noticed a major difference between the Ubuntu install, the Windows install, and the XP install. (I formatted my PC a few times throughout the year)
When on ubuntu, the students would get lost, confused, and one threatened to rip the screen off my laptop if I didn't switch to Windows within the next 10 seconds. In windows, they liked the ease of use with the taskbar, the "ribbon" interface, and the fact that it just plain worked. (My ubuntu install crashed most days, and it didn't work with 90% of the things they needed it to do, like connect to a projector, or play a song from an iPod).
ubuntu doesn't support M4A files at all... so 80% of my media library is therefore useless unless I use wine and painfully and miserably try to get iTunes or WinAmp to work (Both using massive amounts of Ram and Processor juices to get even the simplest tasks done.)
Windows also made it much easier for me to just pass the PC over, and let them do whatever, since it has IE, the people wouldn't have to blunder around firefox if they didn't want to, and they wern't annoyed with 90% of the addons for FireFox that I had.
In the end, no teenager in their right mind is going to install ubuntu over windows, they would prolly rather run OSX than linux (I tried that too with worse results, one student started crying because they got confused and stuff wasn't working)
I have Ubuntu, Windows 7, and OS X on my laptop, but only for 'testing' purposes, it is mostly for the joy of saying that it can do that, and because if I really want to delete a file, Ubuntu is the way to go (some files just don't want to leave).

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 PostPost subject: Re: “Windows 7 Is The Same As Ubuntu” - ZDNET Representative        Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 10:49 pm 
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Doesn't mplayer allow you to play M4A's on Ubuntu?


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 PostPost subject: Re: “Windows 7 Is The Same As Ubuntu” - ZDNET Representative        Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 1:10 am 
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nookupeous wrote:
Doesn't mplayer allow you to play M4A's on Ubuntu?

Nope... otherwise I would have kept my Ubuntu install...

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 PostPost subject: Re: “Windows 7 Is The Same As Ubuntu” - ZDNET Representative        Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 3:35 am 
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There is a philosophy that comes with Ubuntu, you don't get any non-FOSS software. So you end up having to install some things in order to get support for a lot of formats. Mplayer does play m4a (AAC) files and it's easy to install through the package manager. Aside from that there are plenty of other codecs and software that will add support for AAC audio.

Since when can you play songs FROM an iPod on a computer? I don't think you ever could.

For at least a year Xorg has supported easy configuration of a second monitor.


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