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 PostPost subject: Windows 7: Ups and Downs        Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 5:10 am 
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Hello there again BetaArchive!

Just thought I'd register my opinion on Windows 7, specifically Beta 1. I recently downloaded it off the FTP and thought I'd try it for myself. For a while now I've been using Windows 7 Build 6801.

6801 is quite frankly, great. It's fast, stable, customizable. Yes, I had my problems (2 actually) which come with running pre-beta/beta software, but it was, and still is a very pleasant experience.

So I expected Build 7000 to be the same. But, I have to say, I'm disappointed. Using Beta 1 has been a difficult and frustrating experience for a number of reasons:

1) Running on a "low end" machine like mine, the Acer Aspire One netbook means that whatever OS I run needs to be tweaked a bit for better performance. So I started to do the same on Build 7000. First thing I did was try to turn of unnecessary Windows Features. 3 times I tried, and it failed every time! I have no idea why, but it would fail!

2) Networking became horrible. I run a small temporary ad hoc network at my flat while I wait for my router to arrive. Do you think I could get it to connect and stay connected? Not a chance. I couldn't even see it 75% of the time! Wheras with 6801 I would simply select it, press connect and bam! Instant connection!

3) Drivers. Granted, Build 7000 had drivers for all of my hardware barring my card reader. Doesn't necessarily meant they worked however. The WiFi adapter would UNINSTALL itself at random intervals, and I had to reboot to fix it! In the end, most of the drivers were replaced with Vista/XP drivers. Once again, never had this issue in 6801!

4) Performance. It seemed quite a bit more sluggish then 6801 did.

5) Unstable. Multiple program crashes across the board, a BSOD or two, no boot defrag, no troubleshooter...

6) Libraries. I miss my Downloads library!

So, I reburnt my disc with the best DVD discs money could buy, at the slowest speed. I reinstalled 3 times, just to see if the hardware/software issues were a freak occurrence. Nothing. I am now back on 6801 and I have to say, I am a much happier camper.

Please don't mistake this for a childish whinge or uninformed rant. I'm also not seeking advice or support, I just felt like expressing my opinion to a very knowledgeable group of people, and to see their replies. I am much happier back on my dated 6801, so no harm done and no hard feelings. I'm interested to see your replies and your opinions as well, so feel free to
chime in!

(Wow, re-reading over this, I really sound like a whiner huh?)


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 PostPost subject: Re: Windows 7: Ups and Downs        Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 7:16 am 
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As you say, it is a relatively low end machine. Did it run Vista?
Have you put any extra memory in.
Windows 7 is not as demanding on memory as was Vista, but it would need 2gbs to give a worthwhile performance.
I have had none of the problems you have mentioned, but have a better computer for testing 7. The 7000 build certainly, for me, show considerable improvement over earlier builds.
But, looking through your post, what features were you unable to turn off? Maybe you can get some advice on those through these pages.
My Network neither improved or degraded. The only strange quirk was that, although IE8 runs without hitch in Vista, it hangs quite a bit for me, in 7.
It found all my drivers (Bluetooth, card reader, infra red etc) but I had to play with my Mnidia card to get a satisfactory picture. Now perfect.
I cannot comment on the "sluggish" remark. Microsoft have advised, several times, that the performance of early builds should not be rated against mature programs. As 7 develops, it will obviously be needed to add a few more running programs, such as DLL's, in the startup and resident sequence. This will, of course, slow the OS down, as it progresses towards the final retail release.
Not sure what you mean by the download library!
No. You are not whinging! My own experience of 7 has been pleasing. My Dual boot Vista, which I have taken the trouble to tune and customise thoroughly over the last couple of years, still outperforms 7 with all my software installed, in most instances. Windows 7 boots slightly more quickly, if that is important, but, considering its new method of using the memory (which is not being used by the operator at that stage) to parallel load at start, that is a little disappointing also.


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 PostPost subject: Re: Windows 7: Ups and Downs        Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 7:19 am 
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Running 7000 on a lower end machine really brings out the bugs (and the lag)
I found than on lower specs, 7000 is considerably worse than 6801 or even Vista SP1.


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 PostPost subject: Re: Windows 7: Ups and Downs        Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 7:59 am 
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Quote:
As you say, it is a relatively low end machine. Did it run Vista?


It ran Business SP1 quite nicely, I had to turn off DWM and a few other services, but after that it was quite snappy ^_^

Quote:
Have you put any extra memory in.
Windows 7 is not as demanding on memory as was Vista, but it would need 2gbs to give a worthwhile performance.


Running 6801 on 1gb of RAM is suprisingly fast, much faster then Vista. Running 7000 seems to be much less responsive.

Quote:
I have had none of the problems you have mentioned, but have a better computer for testing 7. The 7000 build certainly, for me, show considerable improvement over earlier builds.


I've tried build 7000 on two different computers, one a bit more higher end then my primary, with different media, and I still have a lot of issues...I haven't yet seen a machine where the
Code:
defrag c: -b
command works, yet it works fine in 6801...

Quote:
But, looking through your post, what features were you unable to turn off? Maybe you can get some advice on those through these pages.


I usually turn off/remove the following:

Games
Printing and Document Services
Remote Differential Compression
Tablet PC Optional Components
Windows Gadget Platform
XPS

It kept failing on 7000 after the reboot. I tried 3 times. :?

Quote:
I cannot comment on the "sluggish" remark. Microsoft have advised, several times, that the performance of early builds should not be rated against mature programs. As 7 develops, it will obviously be needed to add a few more running programs, such as DLL's, in the startup and resident sequence. This will, of course, slow the OS down, as it progresses towards the final retail release.


I understand of course :wink: It just suprised me that the perfomance steadily went up with each build I tried, then suddenly dropped to sub-Vista with 7000. Have they added that much?

Quote:
Not sure what you mean by the download library!


The downloads library is removed in build 7000. I rather liked it...Made my downloads from Firefox much easier to access as well as group from multiple locations (I have a bit of a software collection :wink: ).

Quote:
Running 7000 on a lower end machine really brings out the bugs (and the lag)
I found than on lower specs, 7000 is considerably worse than 6801 or even Vista SP1.


As I said, I tried it on a higher spec machine (My Room-mates), and had the exact same problems...maybe it's just my aura :wink:


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 PostPost subject: Re: Windows 7: Ups and Downs        Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 8:56 am 
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"It just suprised me that the perfomance steadily went up with each build I tried, then suddenly dropped to sub-Vista with 7000. Have they added that much?"
They have probably got to the stage where they are begiining to load up all the defaults, for Beta testers. Maybe? not much more to come now though.

"As I said, I tried it on a higher spec machine (My Room-mates), and had the exact same problems...maybe it's just my aura "
LOL There are definitely "small folk" out there. There is a forum site which I visit, which runs soo slowly for me, in all its functions, that I am on the point og quitting it. No other users have the problems. I buzz around several sites during the day - that is the only one with the problem.

I have read of router probems on 7 - particularly Netgear. Maybe you will have to wait for an improved driver.

I have, as I said, had no crashes other than with IE8. I now use FF as my default.
So far, I will be keeping my Vista installation intact! But I am hopeful that I can move forward(?) to 7 in the future, with very noticeable improvements.

Just want to add (later) fwiw. Defrag C: -b works for me in the RUN or the command prompt. I am by default, the Global Administrator, perhaps that is why?


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 PostPost subject: Re: Windows 7: Ups and Downs        Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 12:30 pm 
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@rayle: My experience is just the opposite. I installed build 6801 and it was unusable for me.
My usb devices did not work, networking was impossible (no matter whether W-LAN or LAN),
the performance was not as good as on Vista SP2 and my display driver and some other
applications crashed all the time, so I deinstalled it after a few hours.
When bld. 6956 leaked, I tried it again and yeah, it just works perfect for me since weeks.
Meanwhile I am using bld. 7000 and the same apllies for this build, it's great! All my drivers
are working fine, no application incompatibilities and much more performance.

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 PostPost subject: Re: Windows 7: Ups and Downs        Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 2:26 pm 
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i've been a lucky one, all builds have installed nicely (may take a few tries but they go) and it is snappy enough for me to use it as my main os on 2 computers with 512mb ram and 2ghz processors. heck on one of them with a ati radoen xpress 200 i have aero! (was not expecting that, the system is old)


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 PostPost subject: Re: Windows 7: Ups and Downs        Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 2:31 pm 
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Quote:
heck on one of them with a ati radoen xpress 200 i have aero! (was not expecting that, the system is old)


Is the mobo an Intel D102GGC2?


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 PostPost subject: Re: Windows 7: Ups and Downs        Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 2:34 pm 
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laptop is acer aspire 3000 AMD Mobile Sempron 3000+ / 1.8 GHz (graphics card doesnt do aero but i might get my friends old one which does) and the desktop is a emachines with a amd 64 bit 2.0 ghz.


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 PostPost subject: Re: Windows 7: Ups and Downs        Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 3:23 pm 
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Well I also experienced the opposite. Build 6801 is almost unusable for me. It's slow as hell. On both the VPC and my 2nd pc. Vista SP0 ran quite fast.


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 PostPost subject: Re: Windows 7: Ups and Downs        Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 4:17 pm 
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I experienced that Windows 7 Build 7000 is even more stable than my vista. Thats why It´s still a Beta. Stable for some, unstable for others.

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 PostPost subject: Re: Windows 7: Ups and Downs        Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 11:43 pm 
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Quote:
Stable for some, unstable for others.


Which really is a shame, because I like to be up to date!

Just an update, tried again last night. Same issues with 7000. Ah well, I'll stick with my 6801 for now. Just out of curiousity, how different is 6956 to 7000? I might try that.


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 PostPost subject: Re: Windows 7: Ups and Downs        Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 1:07 am 
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The two builds are near identical, but 7000 is a little more stable.


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 PostPost subject: Re: Windows 7: Ups and Downs        Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 2:00 am 
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Just another update, in light of the Beta Release and valid keys release being today (Australian Time), I've decided to go back to 7000. I've decided to leave the features I couldn't remove in, I've disabled a few extra services, and i'm sure my hard drive can deal without being boot defragged. I've had a bit of a deeper look into the networking to get that working, and it seems to be so far. It still seems to be a bit sluggish compared to 6801, but i'm dealing with it. Maybe i'll make a thread or two for any problems I have since everyone here is so helpful ^_^


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 PostPost subject: Re: Windows 7: Ups and Downs        Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 11:08 am 
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For low end machines, a good advice:
1) Kill defender
2) Kill searching
3) Kill services not needed

That will stablize it and make it run better.

Also, if your system dosent support aero, but you still want it to look good with the basic theme, do this:
1) Use transbar to make the taskbar/superbar transparent
2) Set the window border padding to 0px
3) Set the min/max/close button size to 18px

That will give you a "ok" interface and speed will be acceptable (tested on a 1,2ghz).

However, i will agree, that running it on a highend machine is alot more fun.

I have it on my Macbook Air (using bootcamp), and its quite nice - 64bit is also prety faster than 32bit (to be expected offcourse)

The only thing i can cry about, is IE8, talk about a piece of crap browser compared to chrome and FF3.

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 PostPost subject: Re: Windows 7: Ups and Downs        Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 7:18 am 
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Could'nt agree more on the IE8 comments.
I found it ran reasonably well in Vista, but it is giving me a lot of grief in 7. I am a supporter of MS built in programs, but this one has made me turn to FF as my default.
I am waiting for some bright lad to come up with a solution as to how to install IE7 in Windows 7. I have run out of ideas! Tried deleting everything, tried copying over - nothing works.


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 PostPost subject: Re: Windows 7: Ups and Downs        Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 7:17 pm 
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try ie7 portable on 7 :P

i HATED it in xp! it crashed every 2 seconds, i haven't even bothered using it in 7.


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 PostPost subject: Re: Windows 7: Ups and Downs        Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 3:38 am 
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Well, it is a beta (Beta 1), so you can't blame it, you've got to stick to what you've got. As for the Downloads folder, I have never used that even in Vista.

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 PostPost subject: Re: Windows 7: Ups and Downs        Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 4:04 am 
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ie7 portable is not even portable, all it does is use a RAR SFX0 extractor to a temp folder ( %TEMP% ) and deletes on exit and uses the non-portable ie trident html dll library.

otherwords ie7 is trash and wouldn't use it on any system

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 PostPost subject: Re: Windows 7: Ups and Downs        Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 4:56 am 
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all that matters for this case is that ie7 runs on 7 so i dont think it would matter.


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 PostPost subject: Re: Windows 7: Ups and Downs        Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 2:36 am 
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Grrr. BA, this is really painful! Every reinstall of build 7000 opens up new issues!

Now, please don't get me wrong, i'm not expecting a beta to work like an RTM, but:

1) Build 6801, which I am back on, works perfectly.

2) Another machine of lower specs and different model works perfectly with 7000 when I use the same media to install it as I did on my Aspire One! 3 other machines of higher spec I tried also work great!

Is my machine cursed, incompatible or am I just expecting too much? I have so many problems with 7000!

-Programs randomly choose to work or not
-Control panel options randomly stop opening
-Boot errors
-Random driver uninstalls
-Random slow downs
-Recovery errors
-Random de-activation of my legit serial usually around 10pm, then it goes back to normal next day (No cracks/workarounds I might add)
-Windows Update breaks about half of every reinstall, can't update

Please, i'm not expecting assistance. I am quite happy with 6801. I just want to know why it does it only on this machine! Model is Acer Aspire One ZG5...


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