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 PostPost subject: Re: Windows 10 Sucks        Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 12:13 am 
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com1337 wrote:
8.1 is amazing. Would never consider 10. Athlon 640 and a HDD runs beautifully.b

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


I'm not a huge fan of Windows 8.1 but I see the appeal. I cannot see the appeal for Windows 10, and no one in the whole thread seems to have given a reason to switch to it. I've even drafted up a whole Windows 10 Avoidance Plan to save my sanity and privacy.

You said an Athlon 640 right? Neat. That's a quad core?


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 PostPost subject: Re: Windows 10 Sucks        Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 3:27 am 
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Yeah, but it's almost a decade old. Runs Black Mesa and GTA V fine, though.

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 PostPost subject: Re: Windows 10 Sucks        Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 4:22 am 
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.NETLover3790 wrote:
com1337 wrote:
8.1 is amazing. Would never consider 10. Athlon 640 and a HDD runs beautifully.b

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


I'm not a huge fan of Windows 8.1 but I see the appeal. I cannot see the appeal for Windows 10, and no one in the whole thread seems to have given a reason to switch to it. I've even drafted up a whole Windows 10 Avoidance Plan to save my sanity and privacy.

You said an Athlon 640 right? Neat. That's a quad core?

Why are you so paranoid about your privacy? Almost every tech companies tracks you. Then throw your computer away?
mrpijey wrote:
And about the privacy? Then go live in a shoe box, without Internet. Because sorry, between your cellphone, web client surfing to every website with cookies and tracking, Google search engine, your Netflix account and unencrypted emails you send Windows telemetry is the least of your problems if you're worried about privacy... If Microsoft employees get turned on by checking my ad settings and checking what CPU, mobo and SSD I run my Windows on then enjoy!

But if you want to run an old version of Windows then go ahead. It's your system, and your worries ;). But at this day and age I would be more smart by running an updated and actively supported operating system than some old and outdated platform, especially if privacy is your concern. I care a lot about privacy, but I draw a limit somewhere of what's acceptable, otherwise I would need to move to a hut in the forest, living under a mesh dome with no electricity, cellphones, Internet or anything remotely that can pinpoint my position and compromise any data.

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 PostPost subject: Re: Windows 10 Sucks        Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 4:56 am 
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I mean telemetry does exist in Windows 7 and 8.1. At least Microsoft isn’t as bad as Google or Facebook or other tech companies with handling data that is collected. That point wouldn’t matter much.


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 PostPost subject: Re: Windows 10 Sucks        Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 5:34 pm 
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YueLing11 wrote:
Why are you so paranoid about your privacy? Almost every tech companies tracks you. Then throw your computer away?

I understand that most tech companies track me, but I tend to stay away from many of the big ones like Facebook and Google. However, Windows 10 still spies on you more than Windows 7, and I see no incentive to upgrade, and no one has pointed out any this whole thread.

How is Windows 10 any better than Windows 7?


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 PostPost subject: Re: Windows 10 Sucks        Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 5:52 pm 
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Windows 10 does have numerous improvements over Windows 7 (there are probably others I've forgot):

-built-in Windows Defender antivirus
-built-in USB 3.0 drivers which make installation easier on new hardware (which can be slipstreamed into W7 installation media)
-200% DPI scaling for large displays
-improved task manager (combined some elements from W7's Performance Monitor)
-ability to use Windows Store apps (for those who care)
-full DirectX 12 support

But, everything except the last two one exists in Windows 8.1 as well! So there aren't really any advantages of Windows 10 compared to 8.1 for me. I'm not interested in any DX12 games or metro apps.


Last edited by win32 on Wed Jul 10, 2019 6:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 PostPost subject: Re: Windows 10 Sucks        Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 8:17 pm 
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win32 wrote:
Windows 10 does have numerous improvements over Windows 7 (there are probably others I've forgot):

-built-in Windows Defender antivirus
-built-in USB 3.0 drivers which make installation easier on new hardware (which can be slipstreamed into W7 installation media)
-200% DPI scaling for large displays
-improved task manager (combined some elements from W7's Performance Monitor)
-ability to use Windows Store apps (for those who care)
-full DirectX 12 support

But, everything except the last two exists in Windows 8.1 as well! So there aren't really any advantages of Windows 10 compared to 8.1 for me. I'm not interested in any DX12 games or metro apps.


Sure Windows 10 has this but any serious Windows 7 user probably has these covered. Microsoft Security Essentials (which the new Windows Defender is modeled on) or any other antivirus is probably on most Windows 7 computers, my laptop from 2012 with USB3 works just fine OOB but you could slipstream them anyway, they're probably either fine with the Win7 Task Manager or use another one, and most games support DX11 anyway. DX12 is considered an option on most games these days. It might help quality, performance, or something else, but the game works without it. UWP is dead and the Windows Store apps just suck up hard disk space. No wonder most of the built-in ones are gone in Windows 10 LTSB and Server 2016. There's no reason to use the Store anyway to find programs, just find applications yourself on the greater internet or buy them from a store. There's a reason Windows 10 S (gasp) never took off - the existing base of Win32 applications was far more important than the junk on the Store and 10 S couldn't run them.


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 PostPost subject: Re: Windows 10 Sucks        Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 9:09 pm 
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I was also thinking about the future of software compatibility if win32 (both me and the API) remains dominant, which is likely. Only some software has dropped support for Windows 7/8.1 (Office 2019* and higher-end Adobe CC applications) thus far, and not many win32 API functions were added with Windows 10 (but lots were added with 8) so I think that software compatibility will remain very solid for Windows 8.1 (if not 7) for years to come.

Application Verifier can help us fake OS versions and API wrappers can be made if necessary. We won't need Windows 10 to run the latest software.

*workarounds exist for installing Office 2019 on Windows 7/8.x. So why Windows 10 again?


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 PostPost subject: Windows 10 Sucks        Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 9:52 pm 
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Maza wrote:
It was a childish diatribe filled with absolute nonsense

It was my opinion based on my experiences and blog posts from Microsoft themselves, the one being childish here is you there, Mr. Maza!

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Last edited by daemonspudguy on Tue Jul 16, 2019 12:03 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 PostPost subject: Re: Windows 10 Sucks        Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 10:00 pm 
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win32 wrote:
I was also thinking about the future of software compatibility if win32 (both me and the API) remains dominant, which is likely.

They are slowly realizing that this shortsighted instant deprecation of Win32 was a bad idea. I am quite interested in WinUI 3.0 (the UWP user interface framework), since they want to decouple the UI framework from the platform, and aim to support Win32 natively without the need for any UWP interop such as XAML Islands.

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 PostPost subject: Re: Windows 10 Sucks        Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 4:08 am 
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.NETLover3790 wrote:
YueLing11 wrote:
Why are you so paranoid about your privacy? Almost every tech companies tracks you. Then throw your computer away?

I understand that most tech companies track me, but I tend to stay away from many of the big ones like Facebook and Google. However, Windows 10 still spies on you more than Windows 7, and I see no incentive to upgrade, and no one has pointed out any this whole thread.

How is Windows 10 any better than Windows 7?

Google also spying on you too. It's the fact.
mrpijey wrote:
And about the privacy? Then go live in a shoe box, without Internet. Because sorry, between your cellphone, web client surfing to every website with cookies and tracking, Google search engine, your Netflix account and unencrypted emails you send Windows telemetry is the least of your problems if you're worried about privacy... If Microsoft employees get turned on by checking my ad settings and checking what CPU, mobo and SSD I run my Windows on then enjoy!

But if you want to run an old version of Windows then go ahead. It's your system, and your worries ;). But at this day and age I would be more smart by running an updated and actively supported operating system than some old and outdated platform, especially if privacy is your concern. I care a lot about privacy, but I draw a limit somewhere of what's acceptable, otherwise I would need to move to a hut in the forest, living under a mesh dome with no electricity, cellphones, Internet or anything remotely that can pinpoint my position and compromise any data.

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 PostPost subject: Re: Windows 10 Sucks        Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 5:59 am 
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About DirectX 12, it’s being backported to Windows 7 and maybe 8.1 as well. Windows Store apps, or immersive apps, were first introduced in Windows 8.0 during the Consumer Preview iirc, and was slightly improved in 8.1. Then Microsoft made changes and called it UWP apps in 10.
Let’s stick to the main topic here and discuss something else. There isn’t anything you can do with privacy. My biggest complaint is the UI for Start mainly and how Charms was replaced with Action Center. Charms in 8.x were so useful for me, especially the Settings part. I also don’t like Tablet Mode one bit. I mean how are you supposed to interact with the Desktop with it. I need toolbars to access all of my files on my Desktop. And the windows are all fullscreen.


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 PostPost subject: Re: Windows 10 Sucks        Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 6:54 am 
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gtgamer468 wrote:
win32
About DirectX 12, it’s being backported to Windows 7 and maybe 8.1 as well. Windows Store apps, or immersive apps, were first introduced in Windows 8.0 during the Consumer Preview iirc, and was slightly improved in 8.1. Then Microsoft made changes and called it UWP apps in 10.
Let’s stick to the main topic here and discuss something else. There isn’t anything you can do with privacy. My biggest complaint is the UI for Start mainly and how Charms was replaced with Action Center. Charms in 8.x were so useful for me, especially the Settings part. I also don’t like Tablet Mode one bit. I mean how are you supposed to interact with the Desktop with it. I need toolbars to access all of my files on my Desktop. And the windows are all fullscreen.

Want a quick access to your files? You can try search for files.
Also are you a touch user?

Windows 10 is a desktop-designed OS

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 PostPost subject: Re: Windows 10 Sucks        Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:20 pm 
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In win10's defence, I will say that I like how they shifted autoplay notifications from stealing focus to appearing as advanced balloon tips. On Windows 7 with a smartphone being charged/accessed by my laptop with a loose USB connector, that got annoying quickly.


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 PostPost subject: Re: Windows 10 Sucks        Posted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:39 am 
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win32 wrote:
In win10's defence, I will say that I like how they shifted autoplay notifications from stealing focus to appearing as advanced balloon tips. On Windows 7 with a smartphone being charged/accessed by my laptop with a loose USB connector, that got annoying quickly.

To be honest AutoPlay should have been opt-in from the beginning and not opt-out.


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 PostPost subject: Re: Windows 10 Sucks        Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 12:04 am 
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I want this post locked, please.

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 PostPost subject: Re: Windows 10 Sucks        Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:02 am 
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.NETLover3790 wrote:
I find it reasonable that you refer only to official requirements, but you often can run them on less than that, and even the official requirements do not imply reasonable performance as you said. I disagree with them being considered meaningless however.

I apologize for the confusion. I did not mean that the official requirements are meaningless; rather, the individual (subjective) requirements—those "you often can run them [operating systems] on less than that"—are meaningless to me. Regarding reasonable (or rather unreasonable) performance I again referred to subjective requirements and not the official ones.

.NETLover3790 wrote:
In addition to criticizing the speed of Windows 10, the author gave the opinion of it being god awful

What does this even mean?
.NETLover3790 wrote:
bloated,

It is most certainly not bloated; no more than, say, Windows Vista. Further it is more componentized than previous versions, and additional features are configurable or removable.
.NETLover3790 wrote:
unfinished after four years of availability

Such a position is interesting to me. How would one define completion? Was Windows Vista incomplete before Service Pack 2? Was Windows 7 incomplete before Service Pack 1?
.NETLover3790 wrote:
and a piece of spyware, which I agree with.

I cannot imagine why.
.NETLover3790 wrote:
If you want legitimate examples of Windows 10 encroaching on the privacy of users, I can give them. For example, when I logged into my Microsoft account and checked one of their Windows 10 pages, it showed me a list of my PCs, and it had the names and Windows 10 editions of two PCs I had run Windows 10 on in the past. Now I had not configured either of these computers using my Microsoft account, I had used a local account, yet it still had their name and said "Windows 10 Enterprise" (as that's what I ran) below it. I believe it found this out by finding that they are attributed to the same router and IP address. Very shady. I don't see why they needed to have this and track computers I ran Windows 10 on.

This is not a legitimate example as it does not happen. Nevertheless, I will ask: Do you have any proof?
.NETLover3790 wrote:
Didn't help my (already bad) user experience.

It reads as though your experience(s) is based on your preconceived notions of what you already think it should be.
.NETLover3790 wrote:
Additionally, while not encroaching on privacy, the whole forced updates thing is BS. If I want to block them, let me. If it's not convenient when MS wants me to update, I will put it off. The old Windows Update from Vista was great because it didn't push updates on you that you didn't need. It showed "Important" and "Optional" updates and let you choose depending on if it updated a component you cared about, or if it was just a useless feature update, or if it caused a BSOD, what have you. It's my computer, give me the control.

I do not disagree with your commentary regarding the forced updates. Microsoft certainly should provide additional functionality (e.g., the ability to disable driver updates from within the interface); however, it has finally brought the ability to pause updates to both Home and Pro, which is laudable and gives me hope for the future.

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Last edited by Maza on Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:13 am, edited 3 times in total.

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 PostPost subject: Re: Windows 10 Sucks        Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:07 am 
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daemonspudguy wrote:
It was my opinion

That is the problem with the world today—everyone has an opinion. So few are willing to review the evidence to discover the truth.
daemonspudguy wrote:
based on my experiences

You wrote as though your individual experience affects all of the people who use the operating system. There are certainly legitimate criticisms of Windows 10, but your post did not include—or perhaps rather did not articulate—even one of them.
daemonspudguy wrote:
and blog posts from Microsoft themselves

Of which you misinterpreted the meaning, as was demonstrated in previous posts.

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 PostPost subject: Re: Windows 10 Sucks        Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 5:12 am 
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daemonspudguy wrote:
I want this post locked, please.

An admin will grant your wish. I honestly don’t have anything else to discuss about this topic. I’m forced to use Windows 10 because of incompatible drivers with older versions of Windows and I game a ton, so Windows is a must for me. I don’t like 10 one bit and if I could, I would completely replace it with 8.1. So, this discussion is now over.


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 PostPost subject: Re: Windows 10 Sucks        Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 7:39 am 
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I agree to have this thread locked or moved to off-topic. We are simply expressing our own opinions here and trying to change other people's opinion on Windows 10.

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 PostPost subject: Re: Windows 10 Sucks        Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 8:56 am 
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.NETLover3790 wrote:
If you want legitimate examples of Windows 10 encroaching on the privacy of users, I can give them. For example, when I logged into my Microsoft account and checked one of their Windows 10 pages, it showed me a list of my PCs, and it had the names and Windows 10 editions of two PCs I had run Windows 10 on in the past. Now I had not configured either of these computers using my Microsoft account, I had used a local account, yet it still had their name and said "Windows 10 Enterprise" (as that's what I ran) below it. I believe it found this out by finding that they are attributed to the same router and IP address. Very shady. I don't see why they needed to have this and track computers I ran Windows 10 on.

Similar, Google also save your browing history if you're signed in.
.NETLover3790 wrote:
Additionally, while not encroaching on privacy, the whole forced updates thing is BS. If I want to block them, let me. If it's not convenient when MS wants me to update, I will put it off. The old Windows Update from Vista was great because it didn't push updates on you that you didn't need. It showed "Important" and "Optional" updates and let you choose depending on if it updated a component you cared about, or if it was just a useless feature update, or if it caused a BSOD, what have you. It's my computer, give me the control.

Well, if you want to disable update, you can try registry hacks, gpedit.msc or some software like Winaero Tweaker (recommended).

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 PostPost subject: Re: Windows 10 Sucks        Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 12:08 pm 
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gtgamer468 wrote:
daemonspudguy wrote:
I want this post locked, please.

An admin will grant your wish. I honestly don’t have anything else to discuss about this topic. I’m forced to use Windows 10 because of incompatible drivers with older versions of Windows and I game a ton, so Windows is a must for me. I don’t like 10 one bit and if I could, I would completely replace it with 8.1. So, this discussion is now over.


are you sure your machine doesnt have drivers for windows 8.1? have your tried to use something like drp.su (manual search) with hardware id?


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 PostPost subject: Re: Windows 10 Sucks        Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 2:01 pm 
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As long as there's healthy discussion and no, personal attacks, foul language etc I don't see any reason to lock this down. People have the right to express the personal opinions about Windows 10 and others have the right to challenge it as long as it's done properly, calmly and professionally.

If you have any issue with this topic use the report function, don't post it in the thread.

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 PostPost subject: Re: Windows 10 Sucks        Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:57 pm 
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Maza wrote:
That is the problem with the world today—everyone has an opinion. So few are willing to review the evidence to discover the truth


If no one had opinions, the world would be boring af. Also, any knowledgeable user knows Windows 10 is horrendously tracking everything.

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 PostPost subject: Re: Windows 10 Sucks        Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 10:08 pm 
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.NETLover3790 wrote:
Sure Windows 10 has this but any serious Windows 7 user probably has these covered. Microsoft Security Essentials (which the new Windows Defender is modeled on) or any other antivirus is probably on most Windows 7 computers,

Microsoft Security Essentials does not provide the new functionality of the Windows Defender in Windows 10. In particular, it does not provide: attack surface reduction, extended cloud-based protection (e.g., block at first sight), network protection (prohibition of connections to unsafe or potentially unsafe domains), periodic scanning when third-party malware protection applications are installed, or ransomware protection (controlled folder access). There also are no device control or memory integrity features, or configurability for any of the aforementioned features (e.g., attack surface reduction rules for Microsoft Office).
.NETLover3790 wrote:
my laptop from 2012 with USB3 works just fine OOB but you could slipstream them anyway,

It is similiar to, ahem, slipstreaming SATA drivers in Windows XP installations. It is neither desirable nor ideal.
.NETLover3790 wrote:
Windows Store apps just suck up hard disk space. [...] No wonder most of the built-in ones are gone in Windows 10 LTSB and Server 2016.

As does any application that is installed. Despite this, applications that could not be removed in previous versions of Windows (e.g., Calculator) can be removed in Windows 10.
.NETLover3790 wrote:
There's no reason to use the Store anyway to find programs, just find applications yourself on the greater internet or buy them from a store.

That is absolutely untrue. There is nothing wrong with a centralized repository for applications, so long as control is ultimately not taken from the user (in the case of Windows 10, it has not been). Windows Store applications provide benefits over their Win32 counterparts (primarily in regard to maintenance and servicing). I would rather install, say, IrfanView from the Windows Store than from some location on the Internet.
.NETLover3790 wrote:
There's a reason Windows 10 S (gasp) never took off - the existing base of Win32 applications was far more important than the junk on the Store and 10 S couldn't run them.

There is junk in the Store, but not all that is in the Store is junk. The same could be said about Win32 applications.

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Last edited by Maza on Thu Jul 18, 2019 4:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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