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 PostPost subject: Re: Windows 10 Sucks        Posted: Fri Jul 05, 2019 8:32 pm 
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daemonspudguy wrote:
If Microsoft doesn't track my photos in the Photo Viewer, they wouldn't mention a statistic on how many photos have been viewed with the Photo Viewer, now would they?
Edit: proof: https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperi ... n-devices/

This is an excellent question; however, statistics regarding how often a photo is viewed need not have any bearing on the photo itself. I see this in my own telemetry, which I happily share at the Full feedback and diagnostic level. The Photos application includes and collects session identifiers, how long the application was opened, how long it had been since Photos was accessed after switching to another application, which features were used, et cetera, but the photos themselves are not tracked (I actually wanted filenames to appear in my telemetry, but they did not). The Diagnostic Data Viewer can show you this information if you are interested. Enclosed is an illustrative screenshot searching for Photos interactivity.

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Last edited by Maza on Fri Jul 05, 2019 8:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 PostPost subject: Re: Windows 10 Sucks        Posted: Fri Jul 05, 2019 8:39 pm 
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Maza wrote:
daemonspudguy wrote:
If Microsoft doesn't track my photos in the Photo Viewer, they wouldn't mention a statistic on how many photos have been viewed with the Photo Viewer, now would they?
Edit: proof: https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperi ... n-devices/

Yes; they would. This is an excellent question; however, statistics regarding how often a photo is viewed need not have any bearing on the photo itself. I see this in my own telemetry, which I happily share. The Photos application includes and collects session identifiers, how long the application was opened, how long it had been since Photos was accessed after switching to another application, which features were used, et cetera, but the photos themselves are not tracked. The Diagnostic Data Viewer can show you this information if you are interested.
If I ask GNOME's developers the same question I get the answer I should get. That would be "I don't know? That's none of our business."

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 PostPost subject: Re: Windows 10 Sucks        Posted: Fri Jul 05, 2019 8:41 pm 
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daemonspudguy wrote:
If I ask GNOME's developers the same question I get the answer I should get. That would be "I don't know? That's none of our business."

I beg your pardon? Why is that the answer that you "should" get? That is like the old Sea-Tac Microsoft Tech Support joke; the answer is completely accurate—the GNOME developers really would be ignorant (and the details would not be their business)—but it would be completely useless.

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Last edited by Maza on Fri Jul 05, 2019 8:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 PostPost subject: Re: Windows 10 Sucks        Posted: Fri Jul 05, 2019 8:42 pm 
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Maza wrote:
daemonspudguy wrote:
If I ask GNOME's developers the same question I get the answer I should get. That would be "I don't know? That's none of our business."

I beg your pardon? Why is that the answer that you "should" get? That is like the old Sea-Tac Microsoft Tech Support joke; the answer is completely accurate—the GNOME developers really would be ignorant—but it would be completely useless.
They have no reason to have that information. Why does Microsoft have a reason?

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 PostPost subject: Re: Windows 10 Sucks        Posted: Fri Jul 05, 2019 8:43 pm 
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daemonspudguy wrote:
Maza wrote:
daemonspudguy wrote:
If I ask GNOME's developers the same question I get the answer I should get. That would be "I don't know? That's none of our business."

I beg your pardon? Why is that the answer that you "should" get? That is like the old Sea-Tac Microsoft Tech Support joke; the answer is completely accurate—the GNOME developers really would be ignorant—but it would be completely useless.
They have no reason to have that information. Why does Microsoft have a reason?

The stated reason is to improve the Photos application. Windows 10 is not unique in this regard.

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 PostPost subject: Re: Windows 10 Sucks        Posted: Fri Jul 05, 2019 8:45 pm 
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Maza wrote:
daemonspudguy wrote:
Maza wrote:
daemonspudguy wrote:
If I ask GNOME's developers the same question I get the answer I should get. That would be "I don't know? That's none of our business."

I beg your pardon? Why is that the answer that you "should" get? That is like the old Sea-Tac Microsoft Tech Support joke; the answer is completely accurate—the GNOME developers really would be ignorant—but it would be completely useless.
They have no reason to have that information. Why does Microsoft have a reason?

The stated reason is to improve the Photos application. Windows 10 is not unique in this regard.
My photos being viewed in a different app helps Microsoft fix the Photo Viewer program? That's illogical on all levels

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 PostPost subject: Re: Windows 10 Sucks        Posted: Fri Jul 05, 2019 8:58 pm 
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daemonspudguy wrote:
My photos being viewed in a different app helps Microsoft fix the Photo Viewer program? That's illogical on all levels

I did not imply this or write this. Your original post attacked the use of telemetry ("Why does Microsoft need my photos? They're mine!") and your latter post only pertained Photos.

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 PostPost subject: Re: Windows 10 Sucks        Posted: Sat Jul 06, 2019 12:58 am 
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>daemonspudguy

If you are so concerned about the photos app stealing your data, you do realize there is a method to re-enable the Windows Photo Gallery and set it to default, right?
https://www.howtogeek.com/225844/how-to ... indows-10/

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 PostPost subject: Re: Windows 10 Sucks        Posted: Sat Jul 06, 2019 3:21 am 
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Windows (7) Photo Viewer is also enabled by default in LTSC.

This reminds me of another win10 pet peeve: file association conflicts. After installing new software that assumes file associations that were previously tied to another program, then opening an affected file, the OS asks me which program will open it. This is a minor hardship for me because I usually expect to open these files in the new program through Explorer without any hassle (like in Windows 7 and below), which I have purposely installed as it provides more functionality than the antecedent (for example, installing Photoshop CS6 which seizes some extensions that previously defaulted to the Photo Viewer).

The design of those "Open With..." dialogs is atrocious with the lack of a title bar and its emphasis on the Windows Store (the latter aspect isn't imposed on LTSC users thankfully). It looks kinda like a Windows 3.0 GPF dialog which is not a good vibe at all. It is also yet another part of the UI that doesn't respect dark mode.


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 PostPost subject: Re: Windows 10 Sucks        Posted: Sat Jul 06, 2019 5:12 am 
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Maza wrote:
MCpillager12 wrote:
That is a big insult to all those who use pre-Vista OSes

I personally do not care and have machines dedicated to Windows 3.1 and Windows 98 Second Edition.
MCpillager12 wrote:
Give me a good reason to upgrade.

The speed of an SSD is incredible; you would not want to go back to a HDD if you switched. They also do to an extent use less power, which can help to save battery life and reduce operation costs.
MCpillager12 wrote:
Keep repeating that

By and large Windows system requirements are perhaps largely the same since Windows Vista; however, there are changes that officially require newer hardware (e.g., processor instructions for DEP in Windows 8). If memory serves it is also true that the minimum system requirements of Windows 7 had increased from Windows Vista.

  • nothing to say.
  • Honestly some people said that they have seen Win7 on an mechanical disk outperform Win10 on an SSD.
  • I was talking about them telling to upgrade RAM and get an ssd.

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 PostPost subject: Re: Windows 10 Sucks        Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2019 10:36 am 
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Maza wrote:
YueLing11 wrote:
So what do you think of Windows 8.1 Update 1? It's now PC-friendly https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperi ... xperience/

Thank you for asking. I like it very much and I wish Microsoft had continued to work with Windows 8.1—apparently as originally intended—instead of releasing Windows 10. It is, ahem, egalitarian. I use it with both mouse and keyboard or touch; it is infinitely superior to me with both methods of interaction over Windows 10. I often find myself surprised that the same interface works so well with different forms of interaction.

Are you a tablet user?

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 PostPost subject: Re: Windows 10 Sucks        Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2019 12:29 pm 
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win32 wrote:
This reminds me of another win10 pet peeve: file association conflicts. After installing new software that assumes file associations that were previously tied to another program, then opening an affected file, the OS asks me which program will open it. This is a minor hardship for me because I usually expect to open these files in the new program through Explorer without any hassle (like in Windows 7 and below), which I have purposely installed as it provides more functionality than the antecedent (for example, installing Photoshop CS6 which seizes some extensions that previously defaulted to the Photo Viewer)

Funny, because for me and most people I know, it's the exact opposite: Just because I installed a program that can display image files, I don't want all my current image file associations being "taken over" by that program. Maybe I just want to try it out? Maybe it's a program that I only want to use rarely on my image files, maybe I'm only installing it to install it as plugin to another program, etc.
You mention Photoshop, which is a nice example: I usually want all my images opened by a lightweight and fast viewer program. I rarely edit the images I doubleclick. So if now Photoshop takes over all image file associations, that's a major hassle for me.

In that light, it's probably a good thing that Windows now defaults to giving the user a choice.

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 PostPost subject: Re: Windows 10 Sucks        Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2019 5:18 pm 
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The Windows Audio subsystem has been unstable for audio production purposes since 1803. Random crashes with ASIO devices, random crackling on audio devices, and eventually total failure of the Windows Audio Endpoint Builder service. I've been dealing with it since upgrading from 1803 to 1809 - and don't want to deal with it much longer. It's known that they revamped the audio subsystem in 1809, which seems to have further broken audio processing applications. Microsoft doesn't care about breaking the core OS services enough to cause catastrophic issues - this lack of foresight is disturbing.

They changed how buffering seems to work - sample sizes no longer match up to sample sizes that one sets with audio applications, which in turn causes the crackling behavior. Once the buffers fill with data, the Endpoint Builder seems to disconnect all audio endpoints, causing loss of audio functionality entirely. In turn, when recording from ASIO devices (in my case, a digital audio input), audio loss occurs with no indication that something has gone wrong. It's all very annoying, and random. I've replaced hardware, tried older and newer software, with no consistent results.

At this point, audio production on Windows 10 is impossible to perform consistently. I'm adverse to upgrading to 1903, not knowing if the issues will get even worse or completely clear up. The promise that 1809 would improve audio quality due to the 'rewritten audio subsystem' ended up becoming a nightmare for me. Audio recordings end up with random clips and cracks, even though the system is running at peak performance levels, with nothing interfering with the recording software itself. It's all very annoying and at this point in time, defeating.

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 PostPost subject: Re: Windows 10 Sucks        Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2019 7:47 pm 
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Hmm, what hardware are you using for the recording? I've done ASIO recording in Windows 10 for a few years now (did recording on my Mac before but got tired of the limitations of the OS) and never had any issues at all. I am using Reaper and Cubase with a PreSonus Studio 1810c as well as several software based sound processors that requires syncing etc. I've used it mostly to record samples as well as used it with a friends studio recordings and never experience any audio distortions whatsoever. Have you tried your stuff on different computer hardware? Sometimes if you got some bad drivers for something (usually storage, GPU or something using up lots of system resources or causing interference) you can get crackling, I've had it a long time ago and back then it was a bad harddrive controller that caused timeouts on the bus etc... it's just a guess....

As for "Windows 10 sucks", I don't agree, and I don't attach any emotions to the operating system. Sure some things could be better, but if you got decent hardware Windows 10 works just fine. It's a modern OS for modern hardware, if you're sitting around with some old Core junk or cheapo Celeron on a $2 SSD then yeah, it will suck. I've seen a lot of issues with Windows 10 but it's been mostly due to bad/low grade hardware, or users trying to fiddle and tinker away at the system making it unstable. Sure I have some fond memories of Windows 7 and I used it for a long time, skipping out on Windows 8 (hated the Metro user interface except on my tablet, and couldn't bother with any of the third party start menus), but I've had positive experience with Windows 10. I've rarely had to reinstall it, not seen any BSoDs since the initial release before drivers fully matured and it's quick and stable. I run it now across all my devices including one touchscreen desktop and two tablet PC:s. No issues that I can remember.

Also, because some things changed between Windows versions (such as how file associations work etc) doesn't mean it's bad, just different. Just get used to it and learn to use it properly. Sure for some time the changing file associations plagued me as well, but it feels MS got that sorted now, and it's easy to modify without having to fiddle with registry. And I don't really like the telemetry stuff either, but the reports of it are highly exaggerated, to some it sounds like Microsoft has a whole team of NSA agents just sitting around looking at telemetry traffic sent in by users... that's just nonsense. And Windows telemetry is the least of my worries, I am more worried about players such as Apple and Google that are far more worse, and to the extent that I stopped using their services as much as possible. Windows 10 is constantly evolving and changing, and Microsoft at the moment are stuck between the consumer and business world, so Windows 10 is a bit chaotic at times, but I've learned to adapt and find shortcuts for the features I need. But Microsoft will get it sorted eventually.

Windows 10 for me is a tool, a means to a goal. Windows 10 allows me to play games, do programming, video rendering and encoding, music production, software archiving, all without any issues. And if any road blocks would come up it would usually be easily solved by a quick net search. The day I find Windows 10 lacks a feature I absolutely need then I will switch.

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 PostPost subject: Re: Windows 10 Sucks        Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2019 7:59 pm 
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YueLing11 wrote:
.NETLover3790 wrote:
Sure, many large online companies like Google and Facebook spy on you but it's not hard to stay away from most social media, and use other search engines. The thing is, UEFI is not a good specification because it drops legacy compatibility with DOS and Windows XP and other older operating systems, and even if I upgrade my PC, it'll still be slower than Windows 7 on the same hardware (in my experience, Windows 10 boots faster but once you get into the OS it's slower on an i5 3360M with 8GB DDR3 and a 7200RPM HDD), taking up more resources for no more functionality than Windows 7, and there is no good reason to upgrade to Windows 10. Can you think of one?

UEFI is recommended because it's faster than BIOS. It's also a important thing for modern PCs. Who still using DOS or any vintage OSes as main OS nowadays? We're living in 2019, not 1990s.

For speed, get a SSD, it's much faster and use less power than HDD! Also Windows system requirements rised since Windows Vista.

About search engines, DuckDuckGo search results isn't good as Google.

I am upgrading to an SSD but you've still given me no reason to switch to Windows 10. I agree SSD's are better in most ways than HDD's, but that doesn't change that Windows 10 is just as bloated, you're just giving it more breathing room. UEFI is faster than BIOS but it gives up legacy compatibility that is important. I don't run DOS or other vintage OSes as my main OS, but I have tons of respect for those who do (if I was smarter I'd be running Windows 2000 right now not Windows 7, but I couldn't figure out how to get it to work), and I like to be able to toy around with things on my PC. You haven't explained who UEFI is an important thing for modern PCs.

MCpillager12 wrote:
YueLing11 wrote:
.NETLover3790 wrote:
*snip*

Who still using DOS or any vintage OSes as main OS nowadays? We're living in 2019, not 1990s.

For speed, get a SSD, it's much faster and use less power than HDD! Also Windows system requirements rised since Windows Vista.

  • That is a big insult to all those who use pre-Vista OSes, I still use Win2k Pro as my primary OS and Win7 HP as secondary OS.
  • Give me a good reason to upgrade.
  • Keep repeating that

Finally someone who understands! I like Vista and 7, but I have a certain attraction to Windows NT and it's immediate successors - 2000, and XP/2003. No one has given a good reason to upgrade at all, especially to the standard version of Windows 10, which is inferior to the LTSB version, which is already inferior to Windows 7. Bring back the old Windows Update client from Vista!

Maza wrote:
MCpillager12 wrote:
That is a big insult to all those who use pre-Vista OSes

I personally do not care and have machines dedicated to Windows 3.1 and Windows 98 Second Edition.
MCpillager12 wrote:
Give me a good reason to upgrade.

The speed of an SSD is incredible; you would not want to go back to a HDD if you switched. They also do to an extent use less power, which can help to save battery life and reduce operation costs.
MCpillager12 wrote:
Keep repeating that

By and large Windows system requirements are perhaps largely the same since Windows Vista; however, there are changes that officially require newer hardware (e.g., processor instructions for DEP in Windows 8). If memory serves it is also true that the minimum system requirements of Windows 7 had increased from Windows Vista.

I believe we were referring to a reason to upgrade to Windows 10, not to an SSD. Windows 7's OFFICIAL requirements changed from Vista but the usability didn't - 512MB "worked" with both (even though MS advertised Windows 7 as requiring 1GB), but not very well. 1GB was always needed not to test your patience on both and 2GB to be usable as a main OS with speed equivalent to or faster than XP. I still got Windows 7 32-bit working on a P-III-M 900Mhz in a ThinkPad T22 and it actually worked kinda okay though with some basic 32-bit and 16-bit programs and games with D3D8 acceleration (using Windows 2000/XP drivers). No web browser though.

Maza wrote:
daemonspudguy wrote:
This went from me stating my hatred for Windows 10 to a massive argument about pre-Vista vs post-Vista Windows, BIOS vs UEFI, and Google vs DuckDuckGo. Never change, internet, this is too beautiful.
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Do not worry; your original post is still preposterous.

I don't see how it is preposterous for anyone to criticize the speed of Windows 10, which is worse than Windows XP or 7 on the same hardware in many cases (and potentially Vista as well, but I haven't used Vista/2008 enough to tell). Windows 10 encroaches on the privacy of its users, and preinstalls useless junk like Candy Crush and the Windows Store. Now I know the LTSB version is better, and maybe Windows 10 has improved since the last time I used it in a major capacity (14393 / Anniversary Update, I tried out the Fall Creators Update a little bit though and it was still slow).


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 PostPost subject: Re: Windows 10 Sucks        Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2019 8:38 pm 
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Windows 7 and Vista would be faster than Windows 10 yes. Windows 3.1 would also be faster than Windows 95. So what's your point? When i ran Windows 3.1 I had 8MB of RAM, now I have 64GB. I ran Windows 95 on 32MB of RAM I believe. So yeah, on a system that is decent with Windows 7 Windows 10 would be slower...

As for UEFI vs BIOS I guess it depends what you're using your system for. I've never had any real reason to use legacy boot for many years now, and only used it on some systems with troublesome linux distros or when testing vintage stuff, something I can just as well do in a VM. And you also got UEFI-CSM so you get the best of both worlds anyway. You say you don't run legacy stuff, then why would you bother with BIOS anyway?

Nothing wrong with wearing the nostalgic goggles every now and then, I have myself very fond memories of Windows NT 4.0, Windows 2000 and Win98 SE, but I wouldn't for any reason use any of them for anything but a trip down memory lane. XP, Vista and Windows 7? Heck no, they have nothing I need anymore except outdated security models and lack of vital support. And speed? I go from bootloader to desktop in 3-4 seconds, how much faster does it need to be? Uses about 2GB of RAM with everything I have loaded. I never booted XP, Vista or Win7 that fast. And about the privacy? Then go live in a shoe box, without Internet. Because sorry, between your cellphone, web client surfing to every website with cookies and tracking, Google search engine, your Netflix account and unencrypted emails you send Windows telemetry is the least of your problems if you're worried about privacy... If Microsoft employees get turned on by checking my ad settings and checking what CPU, mobo and SSD I run my Windows on then enjoy!

But if you want to run an old version of Windows then go ahead. It's your system, and your worries ;). But at this day and age I would be more smart by running an updated and actively supported operating system than some old and outdated platform, especially if privacy is your concern. I care a lot about privacy, but I draw a limit somewhere of what's acceptable, otherwise I would need to move to a hut in the forest, living under a mesh dome with no electricity, cellphones, Internet or anything remotely that can pinpoint my position and compromise any data.

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 PostPost subject: Re: Windows 10 Sucks        Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2019 9:19 pm 
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Most of my observations come from QA testing Insider builds, so I am not sure if they apply to a matured RTM version as well, so take this post with a grain of salt.

I have been using this installation of Windows 10 for almost two years and I haven't really noticed any massive performance regressions. Pretty sure a clean install would have been even faster, considering that Windows is infamously prone to getting bloated and slower over time. I admit that I can't really objectively compare it to anything, as this computer originally came with Windows 8.1, which was replaced with a fresh copy of Windows 10 as soon as I got it in 2015. Comparing it with my Windows 7 experience on my previous laptop, it is not much slower, if at all.

However, I believe that comparing its performance with Windows XP on the same machine is not objective either. After all, there is a 15 years gap between the two operating systems. I could just as easily say that Windows XP is bloated since Windows 1.01 boots up within seconds on the same machine. Same time gap.

Now, my problem with Windows 10 is that this Win32 and UWP symbiosis is like the Titanic. The thing likes to crash in the most strange ways ever. Take keyboard input for instance: For whatever reason, all keyboard input is routed via the "Touch Keyboard" service for whatever reason. The real fun is when the service randomly decides that it won't process any further input - you can't type anything into UWP apps, including the Start menu or Search, the emoji input panel doesn't appear, and so on. The service is still running and responding, but it just seems to like to go on strikes. Kill the service and everything works as intended again.

Fun stuff also happens when it runs out of memory when you wake the PC up - you get a black screen for a couple of minutes, some strange errors about new guard pages appear after a while and after 10 minutes you finally land on the lock screen. I haven't didn't get to experience such conditions on Windows 7 though, so maybe that's just a Windows design flaw in general. Oh, by the way, when you force a reboot while there is darkness on the screen, you get to OOBE after login. Huh.

Another problem is that Microsoft have gotten pretty lazy after Windows 7. Take the giant window buttons in Windows 10 for instance - they actually broke theming in order to do that. Not sure why they chose to do that instead of doing things properly. The immersive boot menu in Windows 8 is also a nice example - why should one boot into Windows just to pick an operating system? This might make sense on tablets or laptops with an SSD, but makes little sense when your machine takes more than 10 seconds to boot up. Or the File Explorer dark theme - this could have been easily solved by a new msstyles, which would have had the nice effect of applying dark mode on all Win32 applications. Instead, they opted for DWM hacks and a new SetWindowTheme style. Why?

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 PostPost subject: Re: Windows 10 Sucks        Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2019 10:27 pm 
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mrpijey wrote:
Windows 7 and Vista would be faster than Windows 10 yes. Windows 3.1 would also be faster than Windows 95. So what's your point? When i ran Windows 3.1 I had 8MB of RAM, now I have 64GB. I ran Windows 95 on 32MB of RAM I believe. So yeah, on a system that is decent with Windows 7 Windows 10 would be slower...

As for UEFI vs BIOS I guess it depends what you're using your system for. I've never had any real reason to use legacy boot for many years now, and only used it on some systems with troublesome linux distros or when testing vintage stuff, something I can just as well do in a VM. And you also got UEFI-CSM so you get the best of both worlds anyway. You say you don't run legacy stuff, then why would you bother with BIOS anyway?

Nothing wrong with wearing the nostalgic goggles every now and then, I have myself very fond memories of Windows NT 4.0, Windows 2000 and Win98 SE, but I wouldn't for any reason use any of them for anything but a trip down memory lane. XP, Vista and Windows 7? Heck no, they have nothing I need anymore except outdated security models and lack of vital support. And speed? I go from bootloader to desktop in 3-4 seconds, how much faster does it need to be? Uses about 2GB of RAM with everything I have loaded. I never booted XP, Vista or Win7 that fast. And about the privacy? Then go live in a shoe box, without Internet. Because sorry, between your cellphone, web client surfing to every website with cookies and tracking, Google search engine, your Netflix account and unencrypted emails you send Windows telemetry is the least of your problems if you're worried about privacy... If Microsoft employees get turned on by checking my ad settings and checking what CPU, mobo and SSD I run my Windows on then enjoy!

But if you want to run an old version of Windows then go ahead. It's your system, and your worries ;). But at this day and age I would be more smart by running an updated and actively supported operating system than some old and outdated platform, especially if privacy is your concern. I care a lot about privacy, but I draw a limit somewhere of what's acceptable, otherwise I would need to move to a hut in the forest, living under a mesh dome with no electricity, cellphones, Internet or anything remotely that can pinpoint my position and compromise any data.


You bring up some reasonable points, but while I don't run legacy (pre-Vista) operating systems as my main OS, I still like to test them, still on my main PC. And while I have noticed Windows 10 boot faster than Windows 7, once you get into the OS, 10 is still slower. Albeit my system (i5 3360M, 320GB HDD, 8GB DDR3) isn't that great, I do plan to upgrade it to an i7 3630QM, a 240GB SSD, and more RAM. Still Windows 7. Once I go to that sweet Alienware 13 R3 I'll try to run Windows 7 on that too.

I'm saying that no system I'm going to have in the next few years is probably going to have more than 16 gigabytes of memory, which would have been considered high for a desktop rig in 2009 when Windows 7 was launched. When Windows 10 launched in 2015, I understand it was more of an "above average" amount of memory than a crazy high-end one, but I'd still place bets on 7 being faster. Maybe on higher memory configurations it'll be faster, but I don't know.

I can run things in VM but I prefer the challenge of loading legacy OSes on real modern hardware, and the result in rewarding (at least to me). Also, how is Windows 7 using an "outdated security model" and "lacking vital support"? It supports damn near everything and isn't insecure. You say it's smart to run a modern, updated, actively supported OS. Windows 7 is just that. It's modern, updated, and actively supported. But you seem to be claiming anything earlier than Windows 10 is outdated, insecure, and unusable.

Windows 10 does lack XDDM/XPDM support, a feature last seen in Windows 7. You may ask why this is useful. I say that despite the benefits of WDDM, XDDM/XPDM has the advantage of allowing fullscreen text and graphics mode for DOS applications (on 32-bit Windows). Windows 10 allows Alt+Enter fullscreen, but it's using graphics mode to emulate text and it doesn't support the legacy VGA modes. If I ran 32-bit Windows (I probably should load that on a separate partition), I'd be running a Windows XP video driver, even on Windows 7.


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 PostPost subject: Re: Windows 10 Sucks        Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2019 10:37 pm 
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 PostPost subject: Re: Windows 10 Sucks        Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2019 10:48 pm 
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.NETLover3790 wrote:
I believe we were referring to a reason to upgrade to Windows 10, not to an SSD.

Not in the post to which I replied; Windows 10 was not mentioned and it is evident that Windows 10 itself is not viewed by the user as a deterrent or as an incentive to upgrade.

.NETLover3790 wrote:
Windows 7's OFFICIAL requirements changed from Vista but the usability didn't - 512MB "worked" with both (even though MS advertised Windows 7 as requiring 1GB), but not very well.

A strange distinction to me. I always only refer to official requirements. Anything else is meaningless, as it is mostly limited to one's personal configuration and experience—it is thus subjective—and, as you indicated, does not imply adequate or proper performance.

.NETLover3790 wrote:
I don't see how it is preposterous for anyone to criticize the speed of Windows 10, which is worse than Windows XP or 7 on the same hardware in many cases (and potentially Vista as well, but I haven't used Vista/2008 enough to tell).

Unfortunately for such a position, the original post did so much more than merely criticize the speed of the operating system. It was a childish diatribe that included absolute nonsense.

.NETLover3790 wrote:
Windows 10 encroaches on the privacy of its users

If this is so, please do cite examples of such encroachment—legitimate examples. You are not also going to write that it is tracking your photos or imply that it is collecting them, are you?

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 PostPost subject: Re: Windows 10 Sucks        Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2019 11:58 pm 
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Maza wrote:
.NETLover3790 wrote:
Windows 7's OFFICIAL requirements changed from Vista but the usability didn't - 512MB "worked" with both (even though MS advertised Windows 7 as requiring 1GB), but not very well.

A strange distinction to me. I always only refer to official requirements. Anything else is meaningless, as it is mostly limited to one's personal configuration and experience—it is thus subjective—and, as you indicated, does not imply adequate or proper performance.

.NETLover3790 wrote:
I don't see how it is preposterous for anyone to criticize the speed of Windows 10, which is worse than Windows XP or 7 on the same hardware in many cases (and potentially Vista as well, but I haven't used Vista/2008 enough to tell).

Unfortunately for such a position, the original post did so much more than merely criticize the speed of the operating system. It was a childish diatribe that included absolute nonsense.

.NETLover3790 wrote:
Windows 10 encroaches on the privacy of its users

If this is so, please do cite examples of such encroachment—legitimate examples. You are not also going to write that it is tracking your photos or imply that it is collecting them, are you?
[/quote]

I find it reasonable that you refer only to official requirements, but you often can run them on less than that, and even the official requirements do not imply reasonable performance as you said. I disagree with them being considered meaningless however.

In addition to criticizing the speed of Windows 10, the author gave the opinion of it being god awful, bloated, unfinished after four years of availability (something I dispute considering it technically was finished when it went RTM but I digress), and a piece of spyware, which I agree with.

If you want legitimate examples of Windows 10 encroaching on the privacy of users, I can give them. For example, when I logged into my Microsoft account and checked one of their Windows 10 pages, it showed me a list of my PCs, and it had the names and Windows 10 editions of two PCs I had run Windows 10 on in the past. Now I had not configured either of these computers using my Microsoft account, I had used a local account, yet it still had their name and said "Windows 10 Enterprise" (as that's what I ran) below it. I believe it found this out by finding that they are attributed to the same router and IP address. Very shady. I don't see why they needed to have this and track computers I ran Windows 10 on. Didn't help my (already bad) user experience.

Additionally, while not encroaching on privacy, the whole forced updates thing is BS. If I want to block them, let me. If it's not convenient when MS wants me to update, I will put it off. The old Windows Update from Vista was great because it didn't push updates on you that you didn't need. It showed "Important" and "Optional" updates and let you choose depending on if it updated a component you cared about, or if it was just a useless feature update, or if it caused a BSOD, what have you. It's my computer, give me the control.


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 PostPost subject: Re: Windows 10 Sucks        Posted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 5:14 am 
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.NETLover3790 wrote:
I find it reasonable that you refer only to official requirements, but you often can run them on less than that, and even the official requirements do not imply reasonable performance as you said. I disagree with them being considered meaningless however.

In addition to criticizing the speed of Windows 10, the author gave the opinion of it being god awful, bloated, unfinished after four years of availability (something I dispute considering it technically was finished when it went RTM but I digress), and a piece of spyware, which I agree with.

If you want legitimate examples of Windows 10 encroaching on the privacy of users, I can give them. For example, when I logged into my Microsoft account and checked one of their Windows 10 pages, it showed me a list of my PCs, and it had the names and Windows 10 editions of two PCs I had run Windows 10 on in the past. Now I had not configured either of these computers using my Microsoft account, I had used a local account, yet it still had their name and said "Windows 10 Enterprise" (as that's what I ran) below it. I believe it found this out by finding that they are attributed to the same router and IP address. Very shady. I don't see why they needed to have this and track computers I ran Windows 10 on. Didn't help my (already bad) user experience.

Additionally, while not encroaching on privacy, the whole forced updates thing is BS. If I want to block them, let me. If it's not convenient when MS wants me to update, I will put it off. The old Windows Update from Vista was great because it didn't push updates on you that you didn't need. It showed "Important" and "Optional" updates and let you choose depending on if it updated a component you cared about, or if it was just a useless feature update, or if it caused a BSOD, what have you. It's my computer, give me the control.

mrpijey wrote:
Windows 7 and Vista would be faster than Windows 10 yes. Windows 3.1 would also be faster than Windows 95. So what's your point? When i ran Windows 3.1 I had 8MB of RAM, now I have 64GB. I ran Windows 95 on 32MB of RAM I believe. So yeah, on a system that is decent with Windows 7 Windows 10 would be slower...

As for UEFI vs BIOS I guess it depends what you're using your system for. I've never had any real reason to use legacy boot for many years now, and only used it on some systems with troublesome linux distros or when testing vintage stuff, something I can just as well do in a VM. And you also got UEFI-CSM so you get the best of both worlds anyway. You say you don't run legacy stuff, then why would you bother with BIOS anyway?

Nothing wrong with wearing the nostalgic goggles every now and then, I have myself very fond memories of Windows NT 4.0, Windows 2000 and Win98 SE, but I wouldn't for any reason use any of them for anything but a trip down memory lane. XP, Vista and Windows 7? Heck no, they have nothing I need anymore except outdated security models and lack of vital support. And speed? I go from bootloader to desktop in 3-4 seconds, how much faster does it need to be? Uses about 2GB of RAM with everything I have loaded. I never booted XP, Vista or Win7 that fast. And about the privacy? Then go live in a shoe box, without Internet. Because sorry, between your cellphone, web client surfing to every website with cookies and tracking, Google search engine, your Netflix account and unencrypted emails you send Windows telemetry is the least of your problems if you're worried about privacy... If Microsoft employees get turned on by checking my ad settings and checking what CPU, mobo and SSD I run my Windows on then enjoy!

But if you want to run an old version of Windows then go ahead. It's your system, and your worries ;). But at this day and age I would be more smart by running an updated and actively supported operating system than some old and outdated platform, especially if privacy is your concern. I care a lot about privacy, but I draw a limit somewhere of what's acceptable, otherwise I would need to move to a hut in the forest, living under a mesh dome with no electricity, cellphones, Internet or anything remotely that can pinpoint my position and compromise any data.

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 PostPost subject: Re: Windows 10 Sucks        Posted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 5:52 am 
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 PostPost subject: Re: Windows 10 Sucks        Posted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:56 am 
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.NETLover3790 wrote:
If you want legitimate examples of Windows 10 encroaching on the privacy of users, I can give them. For example, when I logged into my Microsoft account and checked one of their Windows 10 pages, it showed me a list of my PCs, and it had the names and Windows 10 editions of two PCs I had run Windows 10 on in the past. Now I had not configured either of these computers using my Microsoft account, I had used a local account, yet it still had their name and said "Windows 10 Enterprise" (as that's what I ran) below it. I believe it found this out by finding that they are attributed to the same router and IP address. Very shady. I don't see why they needed to have this and track computers I ran Windows 10 on. Didn't help my (already bad) user experience.

Additionally, while not encroaching on privacy, the whole forced updates thing is BS. If I want to block them, let me. If it's not convenient when MS wants me to update, I will put it off. The old Windows Update from Vista was great because it didn't push updates on you that you didn't need. It showed "Important" and "Optional" updates and let you choose depending on if it updated a component you cared about, or if it was just a useless feature update, or if it caused a BSOD, what have you. It's my computer, give me the control.

What you explained does not happen, it does not automagically tie your IP to your account and register your device, no no NO. You must have at some point registered your computer with your Microsoft account. Remember, any Windows service or MS application can do this, i.e Skype, Microsoft Store, Photos, Windows Insider etc. At any point where you tie any of these services to an Microsoft account it may register your device. Nothing odd about that really. I've done tests with this exact thing to see at what point Microsoft saved my info and it was never just randomly (I mean, it must have known what account to tie it to so you've entered it somewhere by your own volition), but by an active action like any of the above. Microsoft doesn't register your router either, I checked the MS pages and I can nowhere find any IP registered, only device with its serial number (if it's a hardware device such as Surface). I have not found any entries where it saves your IP, license etc. I keep very good track of all my systems and I've never seen my devices being registered with Microsoft unless I explicitly wanted so, and I never use an online MS account except for gaming and the occasional MS Store download. But please show me some screenshot where it shows your IP and router and I'll stay corrected. I am very interested to know where this is shown at MS website.

Forced updates I do partially agree on. While I want more options when doing updates I still understand why they force some on you. Most of the security leaks and attacks comes from unpatched and hacked computers in China etc, all because they couldn't bother updating (or because their piracy is rampant and they don't connect to update services for safety reasons, just as bad). However Windows 10 has become better here now and allows you to reboot when you want and you can defer the updates when you want, and you can also easily disable this all together quite easily (Task Scheduler). So I don't think it's a major issue, and a lot less of a nuisance than with the first releases of Win10 when it was more forceful.

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 PostPost subject: Re: Windows 10 Sucks        Posted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 10:57 pm 
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