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 PostPost subject: 64bit Win2000 + Whistlers        Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 1:14 pm 
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Been researching the facts on the 64bit versions of Windows 2000 plus
the early Whistlers builds & thought I'd share what I had so far....

As it turns out, Janus was actually the codename for the 64bit Windows
2000 released for the IA64 cpu...
Quote:
the 64-bit version of Windows 2000, code-named "Janus," is on track for a mid-2000 release that will coincide with the release of Merced, Intel's first 64-bit processor. The 64-bit edition of Windows 2000 will support far more memory than today's 4GB limit, allowing Merced systems to target the same 18GB plateau as Compaq's 64-bit Alpha.
Source..

It would seem that Janus later became 2 editions of Windows2000 that
have yet to show themselves within the beta community..
2000 Advanced Server Limited Edition and
2000 Datacenter Server Limited Edition
Quote:
Windows 2000 was made available in four editions: Professional, Server, Advanced Server, and Datacenter Server. Additionally, Microsoft offered Windows 2000 Advanced Server Limited Edition and Windows 2000 Datacenter Server Limited Edition, which were released in 2001 and runs on 64-bit Intel Itanium microprocessors. All editions of Windows 2000 have common functionality
Source..
Source # 2 for Win2k_LE + IA64


It seems that The alpha versions of Windows2000 only went as far as
RC1...
Quote:
There will be no future releases of Microsoft products for the 32-bit or 64-bit Alpha platform. This means there will not be 32-bit Alpha versions of Windows 2000, beginning with Release Candidate 2,
Source..


Found a link within MS themselves explaining how Whistler was only
officially released to testers starting from 2296, even though earlier
screenshots of it exist on the net..
Quote:
"Whistler" beta 1 is also the first 64-bit version of Windows that will be available to customers for early evaluation purposes on Intel Itanium-based systems.

The MS link to the 64bit Whistler release..


And to finish off, An article on Cairo & how little was understood of it's meaning...


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 PostPost subject: Re: 64bit Win2000 + Whistlers        Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 2:46 pm 
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KenOath wrote:

It seems that The alpha versions of Windows2000 only went as far as
RC1...
Quote:
There will be no future releases of Microsoft products for the 32-bit or 64-bit Alpha platform. This means there will not be 32-bit Alpha versions of Windows 2000, beginning with Release Candidate 2,
Source..


Not quite. At least, through the evidence gathered by looking at the leaked source code, it seems that all the bells and whistles for Alpha CPU's, (especially 64bit code) is still in SP1/2 of win2000 code. In fact, it seems that the code for Windows On Windows 64 was developed initally on the Alpha CPU, then modified for Itanium and x86-64 platforms. Quite a bit can be learned about the history of NT through that leaked source code. I've been studying it for a while now. I'm no programmer, but looking at the comments and such, gives me a good idea as to how NT was developed up until the code was stolen.

Great post - Everyone should read this.


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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 2:47 pm 
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Cairo technology would have been nice have they developed it further


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 PostPost subject: Re: 64bit Win2000 + Whistlers        Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 6:20 pm 
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jimmsta wrote:
KenOath wrote:

It seems that The alpha versions of Windows2000 only went as far as
RC1...
Quote:
There will be no future releases of Microsoft products for the 32-bit or 64-bit Alpha platform. This means there will not be 32-bit Alpha versions of Windows 2000, beginning with Release Candidate 2,
Source..


Not quite. At least, through the evidence gathered by looking at the leaked source code, it seems that all the bells and whistles for Alpha CPU's, (especially 64bit code) is still in SP1/2 of win2000 code. In fact, it seems that the code for Windows On Windows 64 was developed initally on the Alpha CPU, then modified for Itanium and x86-64 platforms. Quite a bit can be learned about the history of NT through that leaked source code. I've been studying it for a while now. I'm no programmer, but looking at the comments and such, gives me a good idea as to how NT was developed up until the code was stolen.

Great post - Everyone should read this.


What you have to remember is that whilst one build is being released to
testers, the next build, or even 10 up the line are already being
developed inhouse...
So whilst MS are saying that the alpha builds won't be released past RC1,
RC2 or pre RC2 is most probably already compiled, the reason you'll
most likely be finding the later code in the leaked source...
The chances are unless someone leaked the pre RC2 build direct from
MS, we probably won't ever get to see it...
Another example is the fact that MS themselves stated on that Whistler
page I posted above, that the 64bit builds start at Beta 1, yet I have
screenshots found on the web of 2 earlier builds, 2257 the earliest of them..
Basically it was to mean that the builds distributed to testers was beta 1,
just as the alpha builds of 2000 finished at RC1, because that was the
last build distributed to testers, not the last build compiled...


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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 6:59 pm 
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Hmm, I got a "Windows Advanced Server Limited Edition", but it seems that this is based on Windows.net RC1. Meant for the Itanium (2)... As far as 64bit Whistlers go, I've heard of Build 2257 ADS, 2285 PRO, 2296 ADS, 2410 PRO&ADS and 2462 PRO&ADS for IA64... Of course there were later builds, but these weren't based on the Whistler code anymore, but already .net Server.


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 PostPost subject: Re: 64bit Win2000 + Whistlers        Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 12:43 am 
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jimmsta wrote:
In fact, it seems that the code for Windows On Windows 64 was developed initally on the Alpha CPU, then modified for Itanium and x86-64 platforms.

Maybe that WoW64 the ancestor of the one on Itanium Windows, but it's not related to the one on x86_64. The one on x86_64 was written from scratch, probably due to the fact that it's the only non-x86 platform that can run x86 code natively (all the other ones contain emulators).
From Wikipedia:
Quote:
Despite its outwardly similar appearance on all versions of 64-bit Windows, WOW64's implementation varies depending on the target processor architecture. For example, the version of 64-bit Windows developed for the Intel Itanium 2 processor uses Wow64win.dll to set up the emulation of x86 instructions within the Itanium 2's unique instruction set. That's a more computationally expensive task than the Wow64win.dll's functions on the x64 architecture, which switches the processor hardware from its 64-bit mode to compatibility mode when it's time to execute a 32-bit thread, and then handles the switch back to 64-bit mode. No emulation is required for WOW64 on x64.


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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 2:43 am 
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The quote I made above about no alpha releases starting with RC2
as quoted from the source, must have meant no releases after RC2...
I just woke up to the fact that the alpha build 2128 I have here is in fact
a release candidate 2 build... :roll:


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 PostPost subject: Re: 64bit Win2000 + Whistlers        Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 3:39 am 
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jimmsta wrote:
In fact, it seems that the code for Windows On Windows 64 was developed initally on the Alpha CPU, then modified for Itanium and x86-64 platforms..

It's probably more or less a direct descendant of Compaq FX!32, at least the way I see it. It was included as a part of Windows in RC1, and very probably other builds the way I see it.

@KenOath: How's the FX!32 in that RC2 of yours? I always found at least the one in included in RC1 to be a lot less compatible (and even slower) than the one I usually install on top of NT 4.


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 PostPost subject: Re: 64bit Win2000 + Whistlers        Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 10:52 pm 
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kidde wrote:
@KenOath: How's the FX!32 in that RC2 of yours? I always found at least the one in included in RC1 to be a lot less compatible (and even slower) than the one I usually install on top of NT 4.


Unfortunately I don't even have an alpha cpu'd system to install them on..
Every time iv'e come accross them they've been gutted for spares...


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 PostPost subject: Re: 64bit Win2000 + Whistlers        Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 3:05 pm 
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jimmsta wrote:
In fact, it seems that the code for Windows On Windows 64 was developed initally on the Alpha CPU, then modified for Itanium and x86-64 platforms.


Its not a matter of running x86 code natively (a rather abstract term), but that the circuts for x64 are simply larger but in many cases the same as those for x86....
It would be unfair to call x64 different then x86 as we do not differentiate between the 16bit 286 and the 32bit 386 with the term x86.

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I'm starting a puesdo-committee whose aims are to promote the use of x86 as refering to all Intel 80xxx Processors and EMT64 or AMD64 or x64 for the additional x86_64 instruction set.

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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 12:21 am 
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It seems Microsoft actually had an x86 emulator for the various RISC platforms it supported even before Compaq FX!32. It was called Windows x86 (or just Wx86), and it's almost impossible to find any information at all about it. :)


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