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 PostPost subject: Why Windows ME was released after Neptune project cancelled?        Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 8:07 am 
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Hello everyone! I was wondering why Windows ME was released after the Neptune project cancelled although Neptune was to replace the Windows 9x series and scheduled to be the first consumer version of Windows built on Windows NT code?


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 PostPost subject: Re: Why Windows ME was released after Neptune project cancel        Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 8:56 am 
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Neptune was supposed to be 98's successor, but MS was far away from finishing the project so 98 SE and ME were quickly developed and launched as stopgaps. Eventually Neptune was combined with Oddyssey to form Whistler,since both projects had overlap and unifying the Windows codebase was part of MS' future product strategy.ME also introduced some new components while depreciating old ones to 'smooth' the transition to NT.


Last edited by MrBurgerKing on Wed Oct 24, 2018 9:33 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 PostPost subject: Re: Why Windows ME was released after Neptune project cancel        Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 9:52 am 
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SuriPolomareFan2003 wrote:
Hello everyone! I was wondering why Windows ME was released after the Neptune project cancelled although Neptune was to replace the Windows 9x series and scheduled to be the first consumer version of Windows built on Windows NT code?


Windows ME was conceived in early 1999, before Neptune was cancelled. The two projects ran side by side for a while and shared some features, most notably the Activity Centers. I suppose they decided to do another 9x release because the progress on Neptune was too slow, so they decided to ship some of the new features in another, this time really the final, 9x release.

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 PostPost subject: Re: Why Windows ME was released after Neptune project cancel        Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2018 10:59 pm 
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Overdoze wrote:
SuriPolomareFan2003 wrote:
Hello everyone! I was wondering why Windows ME was released after the Neptune project cancelled although Neptune was to replace the Windows 9x series and scheduled to be the first consumer version of Windows built on Windows NT code?


Windows ME was conceived in early 1999, before Neptune was cancelled. The two projects ran side by side for a while and shared some features, most notably the Activity Centers. I suppose they decided to do another 9x release because the progress on Neptune was too slow, so they decided to ship some of the new features in another, this time really the final, 9x release.

It means Neptune was to be ME's successor?


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 PostPost subject: Re: Why Windows ME was released after Neptune project cancel        Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 12:49 am 
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Neptune was intended to be the successor to Windows ME in the same sense that Windows XP wound up being the successor to Windows ME.

This is separate from the issue of whether or not there was going to be an edition that would serve as a successor to Windows 2000 Professional.


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 PostPost subject: Re: Why Windows ME was released after Neptune project cancel        Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 2:24 am 
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Random_User wrote:
Neptune was intended to be the successor to Windows ME in the same sense that Windows XP wound up being the successor to Windows ME.

This is separate from the issue of whether or not there was going to be an edition that would serve as a successor to Windows 2000 Professional.

Why? Is Neptune Was To Be 98 Or ME's Successor? Or Neptune Was Convienced Before ME Was Convienced?


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 PostPost subject: Re: Why Windows ME was released after Neptune project cancel        Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 3:44 am 
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By the time that the leaked Neptune build 5111.1 was compiled, Windows ME was already under development; and if it hadn't been cancelled, it would have probably been released after the release of Windows ME.

Even if Neptune was originally intended to be the successor to Windows 98 (and possibly also Windows 2000 Professional), it was probably later planned to be a the successor to Windows ME (also possibly along with Windows 2000 Professional).


Releasing the home edition of Neptune as a successor to Windows 98 but not Windows ME wouldn't have made much sense due to the plan to shift the consumer branch to the Windows NT line soon thereafter.


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 PostPost subject: Re: Why Windows ME was released after Neptune project cancel        Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:37 am 
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Was not Neptune NT based, and therefor the followup for Windows 2000?


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 PostPost subject: Re: Why Windows ME was released after Neptune project cancel        Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:40 am 
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Neptune was indeed based on Windows NT, just as Windows XP was based on Windows NT. Windows XP was a successor to both -- Windows 2000 and Windows ME. Likewise, Neptune was a successor to Windows 2000 and Windows 9x.


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 PostPost subject: Re: Why Windows ME was released after Neptune project cancel        Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 11:31 pm 
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Random_User wrote:
Neptune was indeed based on Windows NT, just as Windows XP was based on Windows NT. Windows XP was a successor to both -- Windows 2000 and Windows ME. Likewise, Neptune was a successor to Windows 2000 and Windows 9x.


Neptune was supposed to be the successor to the consumer Windows 9x family. That originally meant 98 og, but as the project time frame and goals changed MS developed 98se and ME as stopgaps, with Neptune to come afterwards. However, Neptune was for the consumer market and wasn't meant to replace 2000. Edit: It was. When it was supposed to launch earlier it was intended to be sold alongside 2000, but when the release date got pushed back it eventually overlapped with 2000's successor Odyssey. At that point MS shifted their product strategy from two versions of Windows to one version with many editions, and combined the two projects into Whistler.


Last edited by MrBurgerKing on Wed Oct 24, 2018 9:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 PostPost subject: Re: Why Windows ME was released after Neptune project cancel        Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 12:47 am 
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MrBurgerKing, I think your hypothesis is based on the commonly repeated premise that Neptune was intended to be the home edition of Windows 2000. If that's true, why was a different version number used for Neptune?


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 PostPost subject: Re: Why Windows ME was released after Neptune project cancel        Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 5:07 pm 
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martysmarty wrote:
Was not Neptune NT based, and therefor the followup for Windows 2000?


It was NT based as said on Wikipedia here: "it was to replace the Windows 9x series and was scheduled to be the first consumer version of Windows built on Windows NT code"

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 PostPost subject: Re: Why Windows ME was released after Neptune project cancel        Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 5:11 pm 
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HEre you can see in a German Graphic, how it was the original plan and how it did go. It’s from winhistory.de (sorry for the little ad)

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 PostPost subject: Re: Why Windows ME was released after Neptune project cancel        Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 5:18 pm 
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So was Odyssey supposed to replace Neptune and 2000, or just 2000? I thought it was business only. Edit: 98/2000, Odyssey, Neptune, Triton, and Odyssey were all supposed to succeed each other.
At 98's release, MS stated the next version of Windows would be NT based (Neptune). So originally, very early in the development process before any know builds were compiled, Neptune was supposed to be released after 98 and alongside 2000. After the project goals changed, the release date was moved to one product cycle ahead of 2000, which is why it has a different kernel. The existence of Odyssey suggests Neptune wasn't meant to replace 2000, only 9x.


Last edited by MrBurgerKing on Wed Oct 24, 2018 9:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 PostPost subject: Re: Why Windows ME was released after Neptune project cancel        Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 6:05 pm 
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I personally trust the Anti-Trust documents more than winhistory.de (I suspect the winhistory.de graph is based on outdated speculation from before said documents were discovered). Those documents clearly say Neptune (or NepTune as they spell it) was meant to succeed both Windows 9x and Windows 2000, and it was to be succeeded by Triton which was to be a minor release. Odyssey was to be the possible next major release (one document mentions it as being planned to be NT 6.0), succeeding Neptune and Triton.

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 PostPost subject: Re: Why Windows ME was released after Neptune project cancel        Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 6:40 pm 
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Random_User wrote:
MrBurgerKing, I think your hypothesis is based on the commonly repeated premise that Neptune was intended to be the home edition of Windows 2000. If that's true, why was a different version number used for Neptune?

If Neptune was ever released then Windows ME probably never existed?


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 PostPost subject: Re: Why Windows ME was released after Neptune project cancel        Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 6:49 pm 
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Millennium build 2332 (the first known build of Windows ME) was compiled on July 14, 1999 -- long before Neptune was cancelled, which indicates that Windows ME would still have probably been released even if Neptune hadn't been cancelled.


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 PostPost subject: Re: Why Windows ME was released after Neptune project cancel        Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 9:42 pm 
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Battler wrote:
I personally trust the Anti-Trust documents more than winhistory.de (I suspect the winhistory.de graph is based on outdated speculation from before said documents were discovered). Those documents clearly say Neptune (or NepTune as they spell it) was meant to succeed both Windows 9x and Windows 2000, and it was to be succeeded by Triton which was to be a minor release. Odyssey was to be the possible next major release (one document mentions it as being planned to be NT 6.0), succeeding Neptune and Triton.


I stand corrected, the documents clearly show 98/2k, Neptune, Triton, and Odyssey all succeeding each other and each covering both the home/business markets.

SuriPolomareFan2003 wrote:
Random_User wrote:
MrBurgerKing, I think your hypothesis is based on the commonly repeated premise that Neptune was intended to be the home edition of Windows 2000. If that's true, why was a different version number used for Neptune?

If Neptune was ever released then Windows ME probably never existed?

Random_User wrote:
Millennium build 2332 (the first known build of Windows ME) was compiled on July 14, 1999 -- long before Neptune was cancelled, which indicates that Windows ME would still have probably been released even if Neptune hadn't been cancelled.


Neptune was supposed to be released Q4 2000 to replace 98, but when the timeframe shifted MS quickly developed 98se and ME as stopgaps to maintain their market share. So if it stayed on track for a 2000 release, ME probably wouldn't have been developed. But since it didn't, ME was launched.

Edit: MS document that references ME and Neptune at the same time: viewtopic.php?f=61&t=39038&p=435047#p435047


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 PostPost subject: Re: Why Windows ME was released after Neptune project cancel        Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 3:59 pm 
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Battler wrote:
I personally trust the Anti-Trust documents

Where to find this document?

Edit: never mind
viewtopic.php?f=61&t=22867

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 PostPost subject: Re: Why Windows ME was released after Neptune project cancel        Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 7:02 pm 
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Microsoft needed to still support older x86 platforms that would not have been able to support NT OS's. This is why the 9x line's development was continued. At that time, USB support was needed for emerging technologies - which effectively provided Microsoft a reason to continue development of ME. They weren't entirely sure how long development of a Client NT would take, and released ME as a means of supporting new technology while working on Client NT (Neptune). Development of both ME and Neptune coincided with one another. Some tech, like WDM was ported down the line - 98SE included some WDM functionality, while ME included all WDM tech that Client NT would have. Neptune required more work than they had anticipated initially, and all work done on Neptune was rolled into the Whistler project. Merely a rename and merge of all current NT5 service packs. Microsoft has always done rolling releases; Even 9x was a rolling release, with technologies from NT being implemented into the 9x codebase. Win32, for instance, was backported from NT into Chicago. Older architectures, running on a DOS base, would get new technologies from the NT line, while NT would push forward into new territory. Keeping the DOS tech around for as long as possible was a decision to keep their guaranteed home-use market appeased until newer NT-based OS's became available.

From a business perspective, this is commonplace. Keeping support around for old tech while development of new tech is in development. You can't dissolve old designs and force consumers on to a new platform - it's not good for business. Rolling out tech to new systems while maintaining support for old systems is the normal means of keeping market share while also working towards phasing out old tech.

TLDR: ME and Neptune were developed at the same time. ME was kept around because of old PC's, while Neptune was slated to ship with new PC's once its development cycle was completed. Neptune became Whistler. Don't let the version numbers fool you; All the tech developed in Neptune was rolled back into NT5.1. Microsoft had been, and has always been, doing this for years.

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 PostPost subject: Re: Why Windows ME was released after Neptune project cancel        Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2019 9:09 pm 
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Well the thing is that Windows NT NepTune was conceived in 1997 to be a consumer, pro, and 64-bit release, to launch in 1999/2000, after Windows 98 and NT 5.0 in 1998, with a minor release dubbed "Windows NT Triton" to succeed it in 2001. As Windows 2000 was delayed, eventually into December '99, a release dubbed "Millennium" (NT 6.0) was conceived as the first 64-bit release (something dropped from Windows 2000/NT5), and eventually, in early '99, Neptune became a consumer-only release to succeed Windows 2000, Millennium was renamed to Odyssey (which essentially carried ideas from the original NepTune), and another project known as "Millennium" was a new version of Windows 98. However, Neptune (known as NTC -- NT Consumer, or Consumer NT) and Millennium were designed to share code, with Odyssey being the next major version of Windows for consumers and pros. However, by all indications, the first versions of Neptune were compiled in the summer of 1999, with Millennium still on track for mid-2000, and Windows 2000 on track for the tail end of '99. Neptune and Millennium would share technology (think Activity Centers) with Neptune, but much of that was stripped away from Millennium, with it becoming more of bringing 2000's tech to 9x than bringing the technology of Neptune to 9x.
The issue was that even though Windows Me and Windows 2000 had similar system requirements, the usability of those requirements was different. Windows Me and 2000 were both somewhat slow on 32MB, but 2000 was darned near unusable. Windows Me was pretty okay on 64MB, but 2000 was still crawling.


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 PostPost subject: Re: Why Windows ME was released after Neptune project cancel        Posted: Thu Jul 04, 2019 9:10 pm 
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Got any reliable sources for that?

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 PostPost subject: Re: Why Windows ME was released after Neptune project cancel        Posted: Fri Jul 05, 2019 12:38 am 
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.NETLover3790 wrote:
The issue was that even though Windows Me and Windows 2000 had similar system requirements, the usability of those requirements was different. Windows Me and 2000 were both somewhat slow on 32MB, but 2000 was darned near unusable. Windows Me was pretty okay on 64MB, but 2000 was still crawling.

Last time I checked, Windows Me refuses to even install if you have less than 128 MB RAM. Meanwhile, the minimum requirement for Windows 2000 was 64 MB. So I seriously doubt Windows me was OK on 64 MB.

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 PostPost subject: Re: Why Windows ME was released after Neptune project cancel        Posted: Fri Jul 05, 2019 3:58 am 
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The minimum RAM requirement for Windows Me is 32 MB: http://web.archive.org/web/200102061907 ... equire.asp

Windows 98 is good with 32 MB and above so it is indeed plausible that Windows Me could be comfortable with 64 (which I haven't tested myself though).

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 PostPost subject: Re: Why Windows ME was released after Neptune project cancel        Posted: Fri Jul 05, 2019 11:52 am 
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I stand corrected then. I also see that Windows 98 Second Edition apparently only requires 16 MB, and not 32 MB as I thought.

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