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 PostPost subject: Uncrippled MS-DOS 8?        Posted: Sat May 11, 2019 6:50 am 
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Is there any version of MS-DOS 8 that is not crippled from Windows ME betas? I don't want to waste the time to download ME betas just to check (because my internet is sooooo fast :P ).


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 PostPost subject: Re: Uncrippled MS-DOS 8?        Posted: Sat May 11, 2019 12:17 pm 
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MS-DOS 8 is essentially crippled, because microsoft wanted a fast loader for windows. So while msdos 7.1 works passingly as a stand-alone DOS, as well as a windows loader, the same can not be said for 8.

Firstly, xcopy uses a unicode output, and you can't see this in real dos. Secondly, the dos boot disk by windows me is a different io.sys/command.com to the one in windows.

There is an uncrippled version of msdos 8. You start with the io.sys and command.com from the cdrom boot, and then add ordinary dos files from ME. You really only need the boot disk from the beta, rather than the cdrom. But i don't think, based on a deep compare of the files, that DOS changes all that much from 7.1 to 8.

Another source might be the msdos8 from the windows xp. But that's the boot-floppy version, not the oem-install version. I think there's a version of msdos 8 at boot.ru (or something)


Last edited by os2fan2 on Sat May 11, 2019 12:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 PostPost subject: Re: Uncrippled MS-DOS 8?        Posted: Sat May 11, 2019 12:19 pm 
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I mean is there any betas of ME with an uncrippled DOS that report itself as DOS 8?


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 PostPost subject: Re: Uncrippled MS-DOS 8?        Posted: Sat May 11, 2019 12:33 pm 
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I don't have any betas for WinME. It's not something i reviewed.


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 PostPost subject: Re: Uncrippled MS-DOS 8?        Posted: Sun May 12, 2019 8:28 am 
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ComputerHunter wrote:
I mean is there any betas of ME with an uncrippled DOS that report itself as DOS 8?

Why would there be? I'm going out on a limb here, but I'd think early betas are just going to have MS-DOS 7.1 since they wouldn't be changed much from 98, while later ones are just going be crippled like the final.

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 PostPost subject: Re: Uncrippled MS-DOS 8?        Posted: Sun May 12, 2019 8:33 am 
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I was just asking because my internet is slow and I can't afford to download every build to see.


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 PostPost subject: Re: Uncrippled MS-DOS 8?        Posted: Sun May 12, 2019 8:56 am 
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ComputerHunter wrote:
I was just asking because my internet is slow and I can't afford to download every build to see.

I just have a feeling the answer is going to be disappointing to you is all. Do download a few builds though. I don't think you need to look at every build though. Give a look to 2332, and maybe a Beta 1 or 2 build after that.

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 PostPost subject: Re: Uncrippled MS-DOS 8?        Posted: Mon May 13, 2019 1:29 pm 
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I tried 2332, and apparently they got rid of the ability to reboot to DOS already there, so yeah it was crippled from the start. If not 2332, then definitely 2348.

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 PostPost subject: Re: Uncrippled MS-DOS 8?        Posted: Tue May 14, 2019 11:20 am 
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2332's DOS is crippled. I have only tried to boot it off a floppy and it is searching for WIN.COM. I entered COMMAND.COM and it did start the command interpreter. By the look, it defaults to WIN.COM instead of COMMAND.COM and there is a time bomb.

Is there a way to make it load COMMAND.COM automatically?


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 PostPost subject: Re: Uncrippled MS-DOS 8?        Posted: Tue May 14, 2019 3:59 pm 
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 PostPost subject: Re: Uncrippled MS-DOS 8?        Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 7:28 am 
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It would be good if you can understand how the crippled DOS work...

WIN.COM is loaded by IO.SYS but in normal versions of DOS, it will load COMMAND.COM. AUTOEXEC.BAT here is no use.


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 PostPost subject: Re: Uncrippled MS-DOS 8?        Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 12:30 pm 
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According to xkai's discovery, the io.sys used when booting into Audit Mode is uncrippled (or less crippled compared to the normal one)

It even keeps the access to real mode DOS prompt in the F8 menu.

http://tieba.baidu.com/p/4998118964


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 PostPost subject: Re: Uncrippled MS-DOS 8?        Posted: Thu May 16, 2019 5:02 pm 
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rename COMMAND.COM to WIN.COM?


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 PostPost subject: Re: Uncrippled MS-DOS 8?        Posted: Fri May 17, 2019 9:47 am 
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MS-DOS 7.x is quite happy to run anything as 'win'. So you can put something like 'mem' or 'drives' renamed as 'win', it it will quite happily run it. The windir directive in msdos.sys points to where the registry is, not the windows directory is. winbootdir points to the dos driver directory, the path created is winbootdir;winbootdir\command;windir

Windows ME had some sort of 'fix' that the winboot would not load command.com, and to get some sort of command.com running, you needed to start a different version of io.sys. WinME has multiple versions of this file, and perhaps this is a marker for the seperation of winboot and dosboot in that OS.


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 PostPost subject: Re: Uncrippled MS-DOS 8?        Posted: Fri May 17, 2019 1:18 pm 
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BetaNewbie wrote:
According to xkai's discovery, the io.sys used when booting into Audit Mode is uncrippled (or less crippled compared to the normal one)

It even keeps the access to real mode DOS prompt in the F8 menu.

http://tieba.baidu.com/p/4998118964

Took me long enough to figure out what he was saying about... That is a great explanation of getting a less crippled MS-DOS 8! The only downside is Google Translate's "good" quality translation. xkai actually provided a "link" that took me a long time to "obtain" the URL
Quote:
link: you know /s/1o8wfg9O password: b7mb
is actually https://pan.baidu.com/s/1o8wfg9O I don't like to download from that file host because you need to register in China using a Chinese phone number and took me another 10 minutes to find a login online.

Anyway, thank you so much BetaNewbie for the link!


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 PostPost subject: Re: Uncrippled MS-DOS 8?        Posted: Fri May 17, 2019 1:34 pm 
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ComputerHunter wrote:
BetaNewbie wrote:
According to xkai's discovery, the io.sys used when booting into Audit Mode is uncrippled (or less crippled compared to the normal one)

It even keeps the access to real mode DOS prompt in the F8 menu.

http://tieba.baidu.com/p/4998118964

Took me long enough to figure out what he was saying about... That is a great explanation of getting a less crippled MS-DOS 8! The only downside is Google Translate's "good" quality translation. xkai actually provided a "link" that took me a long time to "obtain" the URL
Quote:
link: you know /s/1o8wfg9O password: b7mb
is actually https://pan.baidu.com/s/1o8wfg9O I don't like to download from that file host because you need to register in China using a Chinese phone number and took me another 10 minutes to find a login online.

Anyway, thank you so much BetaNewbie for the link!


Actually all you need to do is get a OEM copy of Me, use the OEM preinstallation tools to prepare an image and deploy, it will boot to Audit Mode on first boot. Then copy the io.sys and command.com used at that time.

Of course this special version of io.sys will be in the ISO somewhere... If you can find it.


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 PostPost subject: Re: Uncrippled MS-DOS 8?        Posted: Sun May 19, 2019 9:19 am 
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Part of the reason is that Windows Me's hibernate support would not work well with DOS drivers loaded.


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 PostPost subject: Re: Uncrippled MS-DOS 8?        Posted: Tue May 21, 2019 1:42 pm 
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There are various .dta files in tools\nettools\fac . These are actually .cab files, the files ye want are called 'winboot.sys' and 'command.com'

ltools.dta has command.com, io.sys and sys.com, that might work as a native boot.


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 PostPost subject: Re: Uncrippled MS-DOS 8?        Posted: Tue May 21, 2019 9:54 pm 
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I've checked them already and the size is not even the same...


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 PostPost subject: Re: Uncrippled MS-DOS 8?        Posted: Tue May 21, 2019 10:57 pm 
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os2fan2 wrote:
There are various .dta files in tools\nettools\fac . These are actually .cab files, the files ye want are called 'winboot.sys' and 'command.com'

ltools.dta has command.com, io.sys and sys.com, that might work as a native boot.


Looks like these are indeed all the OPK files.

ComputerHunter wrote:
I've checked them already and the size is not even the same...


If you're referencing the file sizes in that baidu forum post, they may be language-specific file sizes.

I'll take a stab at using these files in a VM at some point... Can't remember if I have a Me VM readily available for testing.

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 PostPost subject: Re: Uncrippled MS-DOS 8?        Posted: Thu May 23, 2019 4:33 am 
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ComputerHunter wrote:
I don't like to download from that file host because you need to register in China using a Chinese phone number and took me another 10 minutes to find a login online.


I reuploaded both files to OneDrive:

https://1drv.ms/u/s!AueX0eo4NQeRhOBVCDK8w9V0wKMOLA

IO8DCOMP.ZIP is actually a decompressor for the io.sys in Windows ME.

And WinMeDOSHDD.rar contains:
COMMAND.COM - Audit Mode version
IO.SYS - Audit Mode version
WINBOOT.SYS - same as IO.SYS, SYS in Me uses this file in the EBD (C:\Windows\command\ebd) instead of IO.SYS
FORMAT.COM - renamed from OFORMAT in 2003 R2 deployment tools, supports /s for creating DOS 8 disk. OFORMAT also supports /q on unformatted disk IIRC.
REGENV32.EXE - renamed from WIN.COM in XP, does nothing. Prevents the real REGENV32.EXE from ME from screwing up your AUTOEXEC.BAT and CONFIG.SYS

Note: the IO.SYS and COMMAND.COM provided are the version from tools\nettools\fac\ltools.dta


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 PostPost subject: Re: Uncrippled MS-DOS 8?        Posted: Sun May 26, 2019 12:10 pm 
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Is there any advantage of using 8 instead of 7.1 that comes with 98SE ?


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 PostPost subject: Re: Uncrippled MS-DOS 8?        Posted: Sun May 26, 2019 12:42 pm 
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Is there any advantage of using 7.1 instead of the official 6.22 (yep)? The thing is not about advantage and everyday use but to gain knowledge about this interesting version of MS-DOS. It was first used by Windows ME from 2000, yet still included in Windows 8.1 from 2014, isn't that interesting? If you want to use MS-DOS 7+, 7.1 is the best due to FAT32 support and being uncrippled but the fully uncrippled DOS 8 is also great.

I made a patch to uncripple SYS.COM. It uses the MS-DOS 7.1 SYS.COM but with version check removed (JZ to JMP so it will jump regardless, in hex it is 74 to EB) and version corrected to MS-DOS 8.

Now the uncrippled MS-DOS 8 works great.


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 PostPost subject: Re: Uncrippled MS-DOS 8?        Posted: Sun May 26, 2019 1:06 pm 
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The sys file in the opk will only prepare a fat32 system. You can't prepare a fat16 one for use with earlier versions of DOS.

There are a small number of utilities written for msdos 8, that won't function under msdos 7. But on the main, msdos7 is more compatible with older computers, especially if you use the one from osr 3 or 4. The current version i am playing is a patched 7.10.2400 from a source 7.10.2222. The discussion is at bootland at http://reboot.pro/topic/22047-dual-boot ... 0-and-630/. It's down to two disks and two reboots to get a dual boot dos version working. That reboot occurs after you run fdisk to partition the drive.

The current layout makes use of a third disk with investigation utilities. This is installed into msdos 6, but you can use these under msdos 7 (by using cd \use ). But the trick is that we *could* use the msdos 7 himem.sys etc, but this has not been implemented.

@ComputerHunter. NT5.x includes NT5.0, which goes back to 1999 or 2000.


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 PostPost subject: Re: Uncrippled MS-DOS 8?        Posted: Mon May 27, 2019 11:49 am 
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Now the only crippled part is the Windows version check in IO.SYS and not being able to load HIMEM and etc. I don't really care about those drivers but running Windows 3.x in Enhanced mode is a problem.
Code:
You started your computer with a version of MS-DOS incompatible with this
version of Windows. Insert a Startup diskette matching this version of
Windows and then restart.

Will pop up and hang your computer when you try to run 3.x in Enhanced mode which is annoying. I am not good at reverse engineering and I can't find a way to remove this check/error, so if anybody is interested, please help to patch MS-DOS 8 so it can run Windows 3.x in Enhanced mode.


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