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 PostPost subject: Best "Nature-proof" way to backup?        Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 7:14 pm 
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Hi all,
My mom is paranoid right now. We were discussing backing up our systems during a 3 hour car ride last night, and she is worried that if something happens (wether it is a fire, tornado, power-surge... you name it) she (and I) will loose a combined total of close to 700gb of files that are unique (Pictures, audio, home movies, documents...).
We have an idea, but I am looking for comments\suggestions on this idea, along with any method that would be better.
Our 2 ideas are as follows:
1: 2 FTP servers, One in each of our houses. Both servers would be identical, one running at the place we currently live in in Minnesota, USA and the other in our house in Iowa, USA. the problem is that there are costs involved like: Highspeed internet at both houses, 2 identical servers with about 2TB each of storage (future proof), and a UPS system for both.
2: (this is my own crazy idea) Dig a hole in the back yard, place an NAS inside a waterproof container, and drop the NAS in the hole, running a cable to the NAS to allow a Gigabit connection to it, along with power and possibly cooling (I was thinking a massive heatsink that would let heat off, but keep water out type of deal).

Any suggestions are welcome.
Just a few things I should mention. My PC has about 350gb of "used" space, most of the data on it can be replaced, but I have atleast 30gb of unique files that I have generated within the past 10 years, My mom has her pc from 2004, and she is worried it might just die some time soon, and rather than fix it now, we are just going to let it go all the way. Her system is a little bit trickier, it has alot of software on it that we do not have the disks for, and so there needs to be a way to make a complete system image that would be backed up to the backup system almost daily. My pc can be re-installed, as long as I don't loose my hard disk with all the installer files\disk images.

Here's hoping that someone can help me and my mom out. (I'll get a budget later, but she seemed fine with spending $500-600 on this solution)

Thanks in advance!

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 PostPost subject: Re: Best "Nature-proof" way to backup?        Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 7:45 pm 
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I'm serious if you have servers with UPS you're pretty much good against power failure and such. Just perform regular server maintenance you'll keep all your data safe. If you're house is destroyed by a tornado you're pretty much screwed if stuff falls on your backup equipment. There's really nothing more that you could do aside from building a "bomb shelter" style room to house all your servers in. If want to spend alot of money build one of these http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safe_room and put your stuff inside. Most business don't even backup they're data or even have UPS's you're doing a good job, but nothing aside from a bomb shelter is going to protect your data from mother nature.


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 PostPost subject: Re: Best "Nature-proof" way to backup?        Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 7:49 pm 
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Both solutions have their downsides, but I think that the FTP server would be the best option. Like you said, it would be costly, but I would say it would be better than your second Idea, as some waterproof containers are bound to leak at some point (learned that from experience), and running a wire would just increase your chance of a leak.

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 PostPost subject: Re: Best "Nature-proof" way to backup?        Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 8:18 pm 
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Why not subscribe to a backup service, like Carbonite?

Seriously, it's 55 bucks for a year, 100 bucks or 2 years and 130 bucks for 3 years. I have it now, and it's pretty good. You would have to go into the program to setup the backup features if you want every single file backed up, but most files, like your pictures and what not, can be backed up without any problem.

http://www.carbonite.com/


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 PostPost subject: Re: Best "Nature-proof" way to backup?        Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 8:55 pm 
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Ambig wrote:
Why not subscribe to a backup service, like Carbonite?

Seriously, it's 55 bucks for a year, 100 bucks or 2 years and 130 bucks for 3 years. I have it now, and it's pretty good. You would have to go into the program to setup the backup features if you want every single file backed up, but most files, like your pictures and what not, can be backed up without any problem.

http://www.carbonite.com/

The problem is: we need to backup multiple systems (my pc, my mom's pc, and my older brother's pc) so for one year, we would be spending a large chunck of change, and for 3 years, it would be monumental for our family. (that is why I didn't even mention online backup) Plus once your subscription runs out... goodbye files

I'm looking into prices for a great set of backup servers, any suggestions on parts?

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 PostPost subject: Re: Best "Nature-proof" way to backup?        Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 9:50 pm 
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pizzaboy192 wrote:
Ambig wrote:
Why not subscribe to a backup service, like Carbonite?

Seriously, it's 55 bucks for a year, 100 bucks or 2 years and 130 bucks for 3 years. I have it now, and it's pretty good. You would have to go into the program to setup the backup features if you want every single file backed up, but most files, like your pictures and what not, can be backed up without any problem.

http://www.carbonite.com/

The problem is: we need to backup multiple systems (my pc, my mom's pc, and my older brother's pc) so for one year, we would be spending a large chunck of change, and for 3 years, it would be monumental for our family. (that is why I didn't even mention online backup) Plus once your subscription runs out... goodbye files

I'm looking into prices for a great set of backup servers, any suggestions on parts?

Look at dell there server seem cheepish :)
Or built your own, even cheeper.
Core 2 Duo 1GB DDR II ram 2TB would be good enough really. 2x1TB drives in RAID
(Don't bite my head off about RAID ;))

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 PostPost subject: Re: Best "Nature-proof" way to backup?        Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 9:52 pm 
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why not burn a whole bunch of DVDs, and throw them in like a sealed container.


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 PostPost subject: Re: Best "Nature-proof" way to backup?        Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 10:09 pm 
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inxsfan92 wrote:
why not burn a whole bunch of DVDs, and throw them in like a sealed container.

Lets see you try to burn 750gb of data to DVD's and make sure it is current =P
toshua123 wrote:
Look at dell there server seem cheepish :)
Or built your own, even cheeper.
Core 2 Duo 1GB DDR II ram 2TB would be good enough really. 2x1TB drives in RAID
(Don't bite my head off about RAID ;))

I am looking into both a dell PowerEdge Rackmount setup (I don't have racks, but I could find some easily) or building my own
I will not go RAID, too much hastle, not enough protection (2 physical servers is like long-distance RAID anyways)
My current "backup" server is a 933mhz PIII server, and it seems to do great for backup, as long as you don't try other things too. I found some Xeon 2 physical processor systems for pretty cheap, missing HDDs, but a SATAII PCI-X card would run me a bit, and it could be running for as little as $200 =D

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 PostPost subject: Re: Best "Nature-proof" way to backup?        Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 11:29 pm 
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inxsfan92 wrote:
why not burn a whole bunch of DVDs, and throw them in like a sealed container.

Don't DVD-/+R's stop working after a while? Or is it just some rumor?

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 PostPost subject: Re: Best "Nature-proof" way to backup?        Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2009 12:08 am 
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pizzaboy192 wrote:
The problem is: we need to backup multiple systems (my pc, my mom's pc, and my older brother's pc) so for one year, we would be spending a large chunck of change, and for 3 years, it would be monumental for our family. (that is why I didn't even mention online backup) Plus once your subscription runs out... goodbye files


But have you exactly gone through and calculated how much a backup would cost? Lets see how much a really cheap backup server would cost you:

AMD Athlon 64 LE-1640 Lima 2.7GHz Socket AM2 45W Single-Core Processor $39.99
ASRock N68-S AM2+/AM2 NVIDIA GeForce 7025 Micro ATX AMD Motherboard $44.99
Crucial 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 667 (PC2 5300) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory $21.99
Antec Three Hundred 430 Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case 430W Power Supply $89.99
DVD Burnder $24.99
SAMSUNG Spinpoint F1 HD103UJ 1TB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive $84.99 (you'll need 2 to get 2 Terabytes)

The total comes out to be $391.93 for one server. This doesn't take in consideration the increased power bill you'll have by continuously running an extra server, any increase in your ISP plan (and just to note, running servers is typically against the TOS for consumer plans) any additional costs such as buying the UPS, which should be replaced every few years, or any upgrades in storage or the replacement of dead hard drives.

3 years of Carbonite for 3 computers comes out to be 390 bucks, the cost of one server. So for the cost of 2 servers, you can get 6 years of much better protection.

The only downfall is that Carbonite isn't for archiving. If you delete a file off your hard drive, it will get deleted from the backup. And yes, you're right, Carbonite will delete the files after 30 days if you don't renew.


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 PostPost subject: Re: Best "Nature-proof" way to backup?        Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2009 12:53 am 
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Here's my plan:
http://redrabbitt.com/RedRabbitt/Pages/ ... =&keyword=
(get both of them)
add 2 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6816133002 (SCSI is too expensive)
add 2 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6822136317 OR http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6822136284 depending on circumstances

Servers: $49 plus shipping (about $80) = ~$160
Controler cards: $70 each =$140
HDD: $90-100 each = $200 max
UPS: Extra... If my mom wants it...

ISP costs: nothing currently, we have Fiber at our house in Iowa, and 768K dsl at our Minnesota house, and I currently run a FTP out of our MN house (That way I can service the constantly-crashing server)

Total cost: $500ish... if that lasts more than 3 years (which it will easily) then it will pay off, not to mention that it is sitting right in our house, so we can fix it if needed. Add that to the fact that I can upgrade at any time, and that we only need to run it when we backup once a week, it won't cost us much more than that (BIOS usually has some feature to auto-on for a certain day\time, that will allow my server to update itself automatically at night)

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 PostPost subject: Re: Best "Nature-proof" way to backup?        Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 7:35 pm 
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you should prepare for lot of noise (because thats what rackmount cases do :) )
also, that case is pretty deep so if you want to buy a rack for it, it means at least 15U (smaller racks arent deep enough)


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 PostPost subject: Re: Best "Nature-proof" way to backup?        Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 8:33 pm 
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Yay you're using Redemtech :D That makes me happy, since you're supporting our local economy.

But your link doesn't work, shopping carts are only stored for 20 minutes using cookies, so that link leads to a no configuration available message, since there was only 1 unit in inventory at the time you bought the item.

MSN me when you get a shipping confirmation, cause they haven't shipped mine out, I'm about to drive out to Hilliard to the warehouse and pick it up.

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 PostPost subject: Re: Best "Nature-proof" way to backup?        Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 6:46 am 
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You can always buy an external hard drive and take it with you everywhere :D


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 PostPost subject: Re: Best "Nature-proof" way to backup?        Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 11:04 pm 
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I was about to suggest getting a couple of 1TB external drives and just backing up on to them. Then if you wanted to be extra safe leave them at your other house so you have a copy of your data at each location.

I have my documents on my laptop, these are backed up to a dedicated backup hard drive in my computer and also to an external drive. I have at least 3 copies of my important data, the only downside i see to this is all 3 copies are stored in the same location, although I guess I could keep the USB drive in the garage which is at the bottom of the garden.

I personally don’t think you need a backup server, it’s a waste of money and electric in my opinion unless your going to run something like Windows Home Server, this will backup all the PC’s in your house without you needing to remember. If you don’t plan on doing this I would personally just get a few external drive’s and save loads of cash.

It depends how advanced you want to go.

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 PostPost subject: Re: Best "Nature-proof" way to backup?        Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 4:25 am 
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Bender wrote:
Yay you're using Redemtech :D That makes me happy, since you're supporting our local economy.

But your link doesn't work, shopping carts are only stored for 20 minutes using cookies, so that link leads to a no configuration available message, since there was only 1 unit in inventory at the time you bought the item.

MSN me when you get a shipping confirmation, cause they haven't shipped mine out, I'm about to drive out to Hilliard to the warehouse and pick it up.

My mom didn't buy them, we are still thinking the best way to get this done. (She has a 160gb backing up her stuff, but she is worried it might not be "safe" enough...)
I also am in desperate need, seeing as I have a combined total of about 500GB of data (plus 1TB if all goes well) and it will be nearly impossible to use my current backup solution (Praying that something doesn't go wrong, and when it does, recover with Ubuntu onto my 'defunct' 40gb external)

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 PostPost subject: Re: Best "Nature-proof" way to backup?        Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 2:01 am 
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You can compress all the stuff in maximum compression using winrar so you can get a online service, encrypted. Just encrypt the WinRAR and its good. I once got 750GB to about 450GB using winrar max compression :D

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 PostPost subject: Re: Best "Nature-proof" way to backup?        Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 5:37 pm 
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motherboardlove wrote:
You can compress all the stuff in maximum compression using winrar so you can get a online service, encrypted. Just encrypt the WinRAR and its good. I once got 750GB to about 450GB using winrar max compression :D


7zip should further enhance your compression ratio. :D

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 PostPost subject: Re: Best "Nature-proof" way to backup?        Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 5:48 pm 
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Alpha-Critik wrote:
motherboardlove wrote:
You can compress all the stuff in maximum compression using winrar so you can get a online service, encrypted. Just encrypt the WinRAR and its good. I once got 750GB to about 450GB using winrar max compression :D


7zip should further enhance your compression ratio. :D

and both will take days on the ancient machine that my mom calls a computer...

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 PostPost subject: Re: Best "Nature-proof" way to backup?        Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 2:35 pm 
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I'm used to backup data on my server by making copies on a second HDD connected to this system, on another "backup" server, and also burning data on DVDs which I keep on my grandma's apartment (just in case of fire/other calamities)

The data I have to backup has smaller size than yours (approx 80GB all together), so I don't have to burn too many DVDs, but you could consider buying a blu-ray burner (they're below 200€, and disks are below 20€).

You could also use a backup software which supports differential or incremental backup in order not to save unmodified files every time you backup, but keep in mind that if you lose the first backup copy, you'll lose everything (a complete backup once a semester is recommanded)


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