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 PostPost subject: Dear Andy        Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 8:37 am 
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This will either get me a warning or a ban.

Dear Andy,

I am writing in regards to your recent locking of topics in the Off-topic section. These include
- "[ Poll ] How many keys do you have on your keychain?"
- "[ Poll ] What's the size of your main thumb drive?", and:
- "[ Poll ] For what purposes do you use your thumb drive(s)?", and:
- "who has the most ram"

You consider these pointless and the forum is a beta forum and should not be used for these types of topics. Yes it is a beta forum, but it clearly says under Off-topic "Any discussions not computer or beta related should go in this forum."

If you feel those topics are pointless, then shouldn't you have also banned us posting desktops and locked the desk thread, the what you're listening to thread, the where are you thread etc?

My two cents.


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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 8:42 am 
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I'm starting to wonder the same thing, why do we even have an "Offtopic" section on the site if we can't post anything offtopic in them?

No one complained about it, no one was annoyed with it, and people were replying normally in them, so what was the exact problem? Do you just enjoy ruling a Dictatorship?

Some things are okay, but for locking 4 topics for really no reason since it is in OFFTOPIC is going a little overboard, but then again you own this place, so the people who contribute are pretty much nothing.

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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 9:46 am 
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Active topics that must be locked because they are not related to betas:

http://www.betaarchive.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6451
http://www.betaarchive.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6393
http://www.betaarchive.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6425
http://www.betaarchive.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6421
http://www.betaarchive.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6406
http://www.betaarchive.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6382
http://www.betaarchive.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6372
http://www.betaarchive.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5592
http://www.betaarchive.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6371
http://www.betaarchive.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5772
http://www.betaarchive.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6236
http://www.betaarchive.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5586
http://www.betaarchive.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6320
http://www.betaarchive.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1413
http://www.betaarchive.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6302
http://www.betaarchive.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2400
http://www.betaarchive.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5946
http://www.betaarchive.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6194
http://www.betaarchive.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6150
http://www.betaarchive.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6147
http://www.betaarchive.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6136
http://www.betaarchive.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6107
http://www.betaarchive.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6090
http://www.betaarchive.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6050
http://www.betaarchive.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6019
http://www.betaarchive.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6401
http://www.betaarchive.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4383
http://www.betaarchive.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6026
http://www.betaarchive.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5995
http://www.betaarchive.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6415
http://www.betaarchive.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6338
http://www.betaarchive.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6011
http://www.betaarchive.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5373
http://www.betaarchive.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=63
http://www.betaarchive.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1655
http://www.betaarchive.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=192
http://www.betaarchive.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6479
http://www.betaarchive.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6462
http://www.betaarchive.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6468
http://www.betaarchive.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5788
http://www.betaarchive.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6353
http://www.betaarchive.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6053
http://www.betaarchive.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6347
http://www.betaarchive.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5792
http://www.betaarchive.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6367
http://www.betaarchive.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6213
http://www.betaarchive.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5318
http://www.betaarchive.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6272
http://www.betaarchive.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6345
http://www.betaarchive.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1966
http://www.betaarchive.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6179

In the forum banner it says:

Quote:
{The Community For Beta Collectors}

How can we be a community if threads that allow us to get to know more about each other are locked?

This forum is changing, the people who choose to spend their time here for the discussion are slowly being phased out by a wave of new members who only care about having access to "cool" private servers filled with strange software that will make them look good, and so the forum has become one large filter that does a lousy job at determining who "deserves" to have access.

Chances are those threads were started solely with the aim of raising post counts, but did they need to be locked? No, because they were actual discussions, all be it not very good discussions, but discussions none the less.

Discussion, actual discussion, in which people share thoughts, opinions and experiences is becoming a rarity on this forum.

*And that would be my 2 cents, I too expect to get a warn/ban.


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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 11:35 am 
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Well, where do I begin. OK, lets see.

Off-Topic forum is to be used "sensibly", that is, topics actually worthwhile talking about and not just because you got bored and wanted people to post. The topics I locked, were created out of pure boredom. How do I know? "/random topic time", a quote from one of the topics. One was made in response to another created by the same user. What was wrong with doing both polls on one topic? A waste of space and time. The other had a complete lack or regard for spelling and grammar.

Now if you feel thats still not reason enough to lock them, well, tough luck, basically. Perhaps if there was a little more to the topic than "how big is that" or "how many of those do you have", such as "and where did you buy it from and how much, and why did you get that particular one" fair enough, valid topic, it actually has a point. But to create a topic with one boring question, is purely pointless and doesn't warrant being allow to continue.

I'm sure you don't want to see BA turn into a waste ground of pointless topics and posts, and neither do I.

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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 12:15 pm 
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To be fair, those topics that were mentioned actually look like boredom topics which are just, random.

Example of what I see: - "[ Poll ] How many keys do you have on your keychain?" -- I mean, what?! What benefit of getting to know each other would that be? It is just pointless waste of space in my opinion

Also, now knowing the reasoning why <admin> locks certain topics, this may actually reduce the number of locked topics (possibly)


I've now said all I am going to say, for several reasons, one being that this post in a sense is on borderline on one of them rules we keep hearing about.


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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 12:57 pm 
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Hmm....

First:

Enough with this "dictatorship" nonsense. BA, like any other forum, is run by an individual or group of individuals. These people set the rules which they and everyone else follows. This isn't some kind of public voting system where every decision gets voted by all members. If you don't agree with the rules you can take it up with a moderator or Andy, but regardless what you think the rules are there for a reason. Andy may run this forum as he pleases, and even if he's quite open with his feelings and that it may be seen as harsh he still wants the best for the forum. YOU signed on this forum freely to be part of a beta community. If you don't like the party then you can leave. The choice is yours, you got a free will.

Second...

Yes, we have an offtopic forum. But as Andy said, it has to be used sensibly. BA is after all a very specialized forum and focuses around that. The offtopic forum is there for people to vent and discuss other things not related to BA. But recently the offtopic forum is being filled with one line polls and other quite lame things. You as a member might argue that since it's an offtopic forum you may as well post whatever you want, pointless or otherwise. False. The forum is there to make a contribution to BA as a whole, not to become some spam hole central because you couldn't post it elsewhere on the site. If you want to discuss the weather or your dogs then fine, but DISCUSS it. Make a compelling discussion out of it. Not a "Do you like my dog?, Yes-No" poll. Forums are for discussing things, not to make market analysis on what people like or don't or what they have or don't. We don't want to turn off the poll function, but it may as well be turned off to avoid these kind of non-discussion stuff.

Jabster:

As you pointed out yourself, it's a community for Beta Collectors. Being a community doesn't mean you can post and spam whatever you want. It means that members focuses around a central topic as a group. In this case betas (and abandonware). So what does a community of beta/abandonware-oriented members have to do with when you backed up recently, which president you voted for or which car is your favourite? Nothing. The community is about the betas, not about the members. If you want that Facebook or anything alike is a good selection. And if you want to learn about BA members then get in touch with them yourself.

The reason discussions where people actually DISCUSS things has become a rarity. But not because one liner polls and nonsense is being locked down. It's because people stop making good discussions and ended up doing these polls and nonsense posts. Hey, if you want better discussions then make one. Show everyone how it's done.

Happy Dude:

Your examples couldn't explain things better. In relation to Jabsters community point, what does all that have to do with a beta community? And all of them are just one-liner polls. No real discussion, just a "What do you have?".

----

All and all, BA tries to be more focused around betas and discussions about them, and also tries to pull in people that are interested in betas and not members that come here just to find out what USB sticks people use. That does mean that posts will be moderated (as always) and that the forum will always be adjusted to properly focus on betas (and abandonware). The offtopic forum is there for a reason yes, but it's not there to be overtaxed by marketing polls.

It's not easy to run a forum. Everyone thinks they are right and that things should be done their way. Fact remains tho that this is a forum oriented around betas and abandonware, and it's run by Andy. He as root moderator may adjust whatever he wants when he wants. Members may moan, but the members chose to join. Andy didn't force them. I know for a fact that some members disliked BA for being so "messy" with all the offtopic polls and random low level discussions. There is not much we can do about the discussions since not all members are equal and know as much as other members, but we CAN get rid of some of the "forum fillers" that pops up in every forum or so. First being these pointless posts. Perhaps not pointless to you, but they are pointless to the man on top. They don't fit into the shape he wants the forum to become so they get locked down. This isn't anything unique, take a look at any forum and you'll see boundaries of what's proper to post and what's not. All members won't agree with where to set these boundaries, but that's how it is.

And if you want to stay you'll have to adjust. See past the "bad" things and focus on the good things. Or you leave and find other places to discuss the things that wasn't proper here. It's all your choice. But in the end, BA stays a forum oriented around betas and members interested in them. So make compelling posts and you'll have your good discussions that benefits everyone.

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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 1:36 pm 
Now is it just me or is andy trying to subdue people to come back..

See from the copypasta below.

Quote:
media - Download folder or avi... says:
so, you apparently left BA
shannon / happy dude - says:
yes
Andy aka Ted - I.T Crowd S03E01 - ftp.betaarchive.co.uk - user: media - pass: media - Download folder or avi... says:
lol
Andy aka Ted - I.T Crowd S03E01 - ftp.betaarchive.co.uk - user: media - pass: media - Download folder or avi... says:
jokes on you then really
shannon / happy dude - says:
k
Andy aka Ted - I.T Crowd S03E01 - ftp.betaarchive.co.uk - user: media - pass: media - Download folder or avi... says:
crying over locked topics, now who's the immature one?
shannon / happy dude - says:
im not crying over nothing
shannon / happy dude - says:
i just feel BA is no longer a forum im interested in


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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 1:37 pm 
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I hardly think thats trying to make him come back. I'm just explaining that his reason for leaving is quite petty really and that the jokes on him because he thinks I care. If he wants to leave over locking of topics thats his choice.

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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 1:41 pm 
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getoverit wrote:

See from the copypasta below.



Where does that come from?

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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 1:42 pm 
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zeehonden_3 wrote:
getoverit wrote:

See from the copypasta below.



Where does that come from?


A conversation on WLM about 30 minutes ago.

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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 1:47 pm 
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Pretty much all the threads in jabsters post were terrible, happy_dude, those threads were stupid.

Edit: What kind of radio do you use?
Tivoli [ ]
Sony [ ]
I suck [ ]
Internet [ ]
XM [ ]

i want to know please quote & edit to cast ur vote (couldn't figure out polls lulz)

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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 2:30 pm 
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Wow. There's some problems to be had here, for sure. Andy is a great manager of the server side aspect of things (as proven by how he dealt with the recent issues), but he really needs to work on the community aspect of this place. Locking any of these topics were absolutely ridiculous - they were valid, fun little topics. I enjoyed looking through the key poll, and contributed to it yesterday - it doesn't have to be a matter of life and death to be post worthy.

I recommend, as BA grows, that you re-position yourself in your opinions of some of these things, or you may just find the opposite of the growth you're looking for.


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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 2:33 pm 
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Derf wrote:
Wow. There's some problems to be had here, for sure. Andy is a great manager of the server side aspect of things (as proven by how he dealt with the recent issues), but he really needs to work on the community aspect of this place. Locking any of these topics were absolutely ridiculous - they were valid, fun little topics. I enjoyed looking through the key poll, and contributed to it yesterday - it doesn't have to be a matter of life and death to be post worthy.

I recommend, as BA grows, that you re-position yourself in your opinions of some of these things, or you may just find the opposite of the growth you're looking for.


Find me a professional forum where topics like that would not be frowned upon and would be allowed without any interference in any way at all.

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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 2:50 pm 
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i guess what andy says goes, ill just use some other sites for casual talk.

speaking of other forum sites most have a specific area where you can talk about other sites, new ones, old ones, interesting ones, if ones changed or has something etc so others know without going to tons of sites everyday but ba doesn't :/. i guess a reason could be people would advertise their site to much.


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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 3:04 pm 
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http://www.aeroxp.org/board/index.php?s ... =0&start=0 - A pointless topic that holds no value at all the the community as a whole, and is purely for entertainment purposes. Six pages long.

http://www.phpbb.com/community/viewtopi ... &t=1296335 - A topic discussing the thought-provoking question of would you give up your pinkie finger.

http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showthread.php?t=196222 - Asking which IM client one prefers holds no relevance in anything - it's just for some fun. Three pages.

http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showthread.php?t=168116 - Asking a question as "stupid" as this resulted in an in-depth nine page discussion that was never closed.

http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showthread.php?t=184462 - "Who's the smartest in your household?"

http://forums.gametrailers.com/?do=show ... 385&page=1 - A much more well-respected board than BETAArchive, and there's a topic on "who would you make a voodoo doll" out of.

http://revision3.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24210 - Are chips ahoy crispy? A certainly very well respected and successful company's forum, that asks the important questions in life.
----------
I could keep going, but may I remind you that we are a community of beta enthusiasts at our core - we're not exactly the most professional of people. If you want to find suit-and-tie professional ethics, I suggest you look into becoming an administrator of a board made for a community of pocket protector collectors.


Last edited by Derf on Sun Nov 23, 2008 3:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 3:10 pm 
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what bout the stickies of largest hard drive, besides some bad spelling whats the difference between who has the most ram (where i got the idea from)?


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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 3:41 pm 
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zamadatix wrote:
what bout the stickies of largest hard drive, besides some bad spelling whats the difference between who has the most ram (where i got the idea from)?


Both are also in another poll: SHOW OFF YOUR SPECS.

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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 4:09 pm 
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ah, then we should probably get rid of the hard drive one and all the others (game systems etc) and just put them in that topic or a new one called show off your _____

my two cents


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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 4:45 pm 
Most forums I'm a member of have general discussion / off-topic threads,
& most of them have it set so the post doesn't contribute to your post count...
& generally, the general discussion / off-topic threads are hit when the forum in general
is rather quiet, like this place has been for a while now, moreso since the zimmy incedent...
Most forums see it as "any traffic's better than none"...

Maybe the place needs to go offline for a week or so, giving you the time needed
to fix / ugrade the place in your time,, & make others realise what they'll lose
when not having the convenience whilst it's gone...


Last edited by KenOath on Mon Nov 24, 2008 10:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 7:45 pm 
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Since the following are offtopic, non-beta related discussion, with the new unwritten rules in mind, I think these should be locked.

http://www.betaarchive.co.uk/forum/view ... b8066b9d1c

http://www.betaarchive.co.uk/forum/view ... b8066b9d1c

http://www.betaarchive.co.uk/forum/view ... b8066b9d1c

http://www.betaarchive.co.uk/forum/view ... b8066b9d1c

When I resigned earlier this month, I was planning on returning when security and forum upgrades were made that wouldve made moderating the forum easier. Now, with the current atmosphere, I don't see me posting here any longer, if all my topics are just going to get locked.

Goodbye BA.

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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 8:07 pm 
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Meh... I don't see why it has to become a HUGE thing as soon as something different is decided on this forum. Then all of a sudden the members crawl out from the woodwork and start to complain that everything is so bad and that the end is near etc etc. Apparently a single and rather unimportant part of the forum seems to be the most important feature here. Heck, let's get rid of all the other forums, but do not touch the offtopic one or everything will explode, all men will instantly love Sex & The City and Celine Dion, dogs will turn into cats and the universe will fold into itself into a black hole and disappear....

Sheesh.

I can understand at times when Andy just want to get rid of all this, it's because of all you whiners. All you do is complain and whine endlessly about unimportant stuff. As a forum moderator I am appauled to see all this. Tons of work is put into making this a usable community and what do I see? Rule breakings, total disregard of pretty common and decent rules, spam and non-stop whining. And not only that, when some of the people are blatantly caught they don't stop there, then they proceed on hacking, registering with alternate accounts just to make life a little bit harder for everyone and destroying even more.

I am sick of it.

Perhaps we'll remove the Offtopic forum alltogether. Perhaps we'll leave it and let anyone post whatever they want in it, everything from what smell your feet has after a 10 hour shift at work to the color of your puke. All in the interest for the rest of our members. It's after all offtopic, everything is allowed isn't it?

Why do I even bother to log on here every day and devote countless hours and computer time to do stuff for BA when everything is returned into whining... I admire Andy for having the patience to endure for so long with all of this. I myself wanted this forum to become a little bit more professional and a little bit less after-school-spamfest with "oh noes, where did my mouse button go?"-like posts. Well excuse me then.

We'll see what happens with the offtopic forum. But remember, making a community a good one goes BOTH ways. The members has to keep up their part of the deal as well, so before you whine and drag the forum down to a kindergarten level remember that you are strapped into the ride as well, and down the ride goes...

...

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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 8:13 pm 
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The way I understand it Offtopic is to discuss thing that aren't beta related, not post every goddamn stupid thing you can think of, mods please confirm?

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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 8:18 pm 
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Yes it's meant for stuff that doesn't have to be beta related. But as it's been said before, it's to be used sensibly and NOT to spam every thought that comes into your mind. But hey, what do I know, I am just a mod, forum abuser since about when Internet came around, long time IRC user and even former BBS board admin that ran "offtopic" threads. Funny thing is that all of those offtopic sections were more interesting than some of the topics posted here. We'll see what happens to the forum when Andy get's home.

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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 8:20 pm 
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mrpijey wrote:
Meh... I don't see why it has to become a HUGE thing as soon as something different is decided on this forum. Then all of a sudden the members crawl out from the woodwork and start to complain that everything is so bad and that the end is near etc etc.


Let me tell you why it is something people choose to talk about. This forum is run by Andy. Ultimately, Andy says what goes. This also means that he can just moderate based on opinion, rather than merit, which is exactly what is going on. Just like the supreme court (in the USA), those people with absolute power must be subjective to instances where people are going to believe things outside what they believe... like things they do not like... love people they do not love.

It has been made pretty clear that isn't the case here. If Andy doesn't like it, it gets locked or banned. Fairness has been thrown out the window.

Honestly, I don't bloody care. I put my two cents in, and it gets heard or not. I download things... I upload things. People appreciate it or they don't. The Andy crusade has very little to do with collecting operating systems.

Ultimately it IS his forum. He CAN do what he wants and doesn't need a good reason. While I don't like it, I can walk away when it gets too much. I suggest if that is how you feel, you do the same. But please spare us the drama.


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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 9:59 pm 
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The site is turning into a joke because of all the people on here with their "I'm better than you" attitudes. These people go around acting like they're mods when they're not and constantly complaining about all the immaturity on here. Most of the immaturity is caused by these same people who are constantly attacking others and it just gets ignored.

People have valid reasons for being upset by how the site is being run and nobody is creating "drama" or "whining" when they bring up these issues. That's an excuse I'm getting really sick of reading on here. Someone brings up a valid complaint, the "mature" members with the "I'm better than you" attitudes jump in and start calling them whiners or little kids and then have the nerve to call them immature.

Zimmy gets banned, throws a hissy fit and hacks the site all so he can be unbanned. He then goes on and brags about doing it and waves around the fact that he has the DB and isn't giving it back. People had very good reasons to be upset that he did that and ended up being unbanned. People were being called "immature" and "whiny" for voicing their concerns and in all honesty, that was complete BS.

Stuff like that is why the site is turning into a joke. Too many people thinking they're better than others are on here and constantly attacking people for stupid reasons and it all gets ignored. This forum has the most egomaniacs I've ever seen and that's the reason I put off creating an account on here for so long. I find it hilarious how many people on here think that their knowledge/collections of betas actually makes them better than someone else. In all honesty, it's very pathetic and sad. If you know a lot about betas or you're a great coder, that's fine. When you go around bragging and acting like you're superior because of it, that's just sad.

There's my two cents on the whole thing


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