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 PostPost subject: This Guy Says He's Running Crysis On Nt 3.51 On A 486????        Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 9:21 pm 
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I'm running Crysis under windows NT 3.51 on a 486 (with 2GB virtual memory on a gigabyte I-RAM, a SATA card and a PCI-to-AGP adapter with a radeon 9800) and for convenience I hacked the explorer to use DOSSHELL instead http://www.reactos.org/forum/viewtopic. ... 4&start=15


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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 9:40 pm 
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Impossible, the CPU won't support that much.


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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 1:07 am 
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thats what i thought but you never know, there might be a patch/hack.


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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 3:25 am 
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*sniff*

...

*sniff*

...

Anyone else smell that country air...?


(I think, nay hope, he was trying to make a point, not actually claiming that).


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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 4:55 am 
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You can run Win351 on very little RAM. The actual OS is only something like 30 MB, and it happily boots on a 486. I ran NT 4,0 in 20 MB on a 486DX66 (somewhat sluggishly).

With regard to the claim of RAM, 486 machines were typically made when ram-sticks cost lots of money. Machines with 32 MB, might be considered server class, the usual home fare when 486's ruled the earth was in the range of 4-32 MB. Many of the bioses were simply not equipped to handle this core.

Windows 3.1 could only handle 1 G: this is a limitation to the OS addressing. Windows 95 (an early pentium OS), had a natorious bug at 64 MB, and machines of this vintage had an OS/2 switch in BIOS. Some still do. [modern OS/2 systems have this set to NO].

It is pretty easy to set RUNWORKPLACE in these operating systems. I had Win95 using something like SOL.EXE as the shell. Windows 3.51 used a different PM layer to later versions. If you dual boot, this setting is in a text file in the Windows directory.

Wikipedia gives CRYSIS as requiring Windows XP or Vista with directx 9.0c. I am not sure if directx 9.0c will install on 3.51, since the OS has a lot of missing APIs. Some of the installs for games are set artificially high, so it is possible that were 9.0c installed, then it could run.


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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 6:15 am 
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Until a video is released of this (with an open PC so that we can check it) i WONT believe it.

The 486 CPU cant handle that.

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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 8:00 am 
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perhaps he was being sarcastic 8-)


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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 10:07 pm 
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Actually, theoretically, the 486 can support the full 4 GB of address space. The 486 motherboards, on the other hand, are limited (although the first post says 2 GB of virtual memory, which doesn't depend on the motherboard). As for the other stuff, a SATA controller can work with appropriate drivers (which, if not compatible with NT 3.51, can be ported from Linux to the 3.51 driver API). As with the SATA drivers, the open source Radeon 9800 (which could be a PCI version, which has an onboard PCI-to-AGP bridge) driver could be ported (although with a lot of effort). Finally, DirectX 9 support can be implemented using Wine DLLs (again, ported).

So, while extremely difficult, running Crysis on NT 3.51 on a 486 with a Radeon 9800 is (at least theoretically) possible.


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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 10:53 pm 
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While theoretically possible, assuming that the engine isn't compiled to use SSE or MMX exclusively, that looks a lot like a fakepost to me.

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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 9:54 am 
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longview wrote:
While theoretically possible, assuming that the engine isn't compiled to use SSE or MMX exclusively, that looks a lot like a fakepost to me.

SSE and MMX can both be emulated (early in the OSx86 project, someone wrote an SSE3 emulator). This guy said that Crisys works, not that it's playable. A few years ago, someone ran Panther on a 68k Mac (link). It worked, but it took a whole week to boot. Every Turing-complete computer can emulate another Turing-complete computer.

Running Crysis on NT 3.51 (which is much harder than running it on Windows 2000 on a 486, which is probably easily doable) will be harder than running Panther on a Centris, though.


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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 10:40 am 
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ppc_digger wrote:
Running Crysis on NT 3.51 (which is much harder than running it on Windows 2000 on a 486, which is probably easily doable) will be harder than running Panther on a Centris, though.

Would Windows 2000 even work on a 486 though? - I know XP needs a Pentium to be able to boot. Running Crysis on NT 3.51 would be impossible, there's no DirectX at all let alone the required 9.0c for a start. Even Windows 2000 would be likely to be difficult, it depends whether the XP+ requirement is artificial and they just couldn't be bothered testing 2000 as no gamers use it any more, or whether it actually uses things found only in XP and newer versions.

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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 11:57 am 
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@Vista Ultimate R2
I've seen a screenshot of Win2k running on a 486, I think you need to fiddle a bit to get this to work though.


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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 1:53 pm 
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Vista Ultimate R2 wrote:
ppc_digger wrote:
Running Crysis on NT 3.51 (which is much harder than running it on Windows 2000 on a 486, which is probably easily doable) will be harder than running Panther on a Centris, though.

Would Windows 2000 even work on a 486 though? - I know XP needs a Pentium to be able to boot. Running Crysis on NT 3.51 would be impossible, there's no DirectX at all let alone the required 9.0c for a start. Even Windows 2000 would be likely to be difficult, it depends whether the XP+ requirement is artificial and they just couldn't be bothered testing 2000 as no gamers use it any more, or whether it actually uses things found only in XP and newer versions.

I haven't found anything regarding Windows 2000, but XP can't run on a 486 because it requires the CPUID (which is supported on later 486s) and the CMPXCHG8B (which is only available since the Pentium) instructions. I believe the last can be emulated with an appropriate Windows driver (unless Windows needs to use it before all the drivers are loaded. In that case, the kernel would need to be patched).
Also, as I said before, running Crysis could be possible using Wine DLLs, which emulate DirectX on top of OpenGL (which is available for NT 3.51; I don't know which version, though).


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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 2:20 pm 
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Look at this string from SetupLDR.

Code:
Windows requires an 80486 or later processor.


Yet this string conflicts:
Code:
Windows requires certain processor features that are not available
on the processor in this computer.   Specifically, Windows requires
the following instructions.

    CPUID
    CMPXCHG8B


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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 4:48 pm 
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Windows OCManage wrote:
Look at this string from SetupLDR.

Code:
Windows requires an 80486 or later processor.


Yet this string conflicts:
Code:
Windows requires certain processor features that are not available
on the processor in this computer.   Specifically, Windows requires
the following instructions.

    CPUID
    CMPXCHG8B

Maybe that requirement was added later in the development process, and setupldr wasn't updated.


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