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 PostPost subject: October 2007 Desktops        Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 4:09 pm 
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My main PC (Windows Vista Business):
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My main Mac (Mac OS X Tiger 10.4.10):
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My second PC (Windows Server 2003 R2 Datacentre Edition):
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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 4:49 pm 
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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 4:52 pm 
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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 7:12 pm 
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Same old pc as last time, amazingly same Windows install too......


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 PostPost subject: Re: October 2007 Desktops        Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 9:49 pm 
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My second PC (Windows Server 2003 R2 Datacentre Edition):
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:)

Server 2003 datacenter on a 600mhz, single core P3 with 64mb ram. :O

my server, viewed through remote desktop, as I don't feel like lugging it up here

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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 3:51 am 
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I (L) my windows, but I dual boot with mac cause "Once you go mac, you never go back"

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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 5:11 am 
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Last edited by Richard0612 on Tue Oct 02, 2007 3:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 5:30 am 
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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 11:17 am 
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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 11:48 am 
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When Rosetta doesn't cut it anymore... :P
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The graphical glitches are probably courtesy of WINE (not the drink!)...

Vista Ultimate R2 wrote:
My main Mac (Mac OS X Tiger 10.4.10):

If you don't mind me asking, what are the apps you have in the Dock? The icons are so small I can't recognize some of them.


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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 1:28 pm 
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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 3:13 pm 
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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 3:21 pm 
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empireum wrote:
When Rosetta doesn't cut it anymore... :P
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The graphical glitches are probably courtesy of WINE (not the drink!)...

The graphics issues are because you have set PearPC to emulate a G4 processor, and there are issues with that when running Tiger - set it to emulate a G3 and you will be fine :)


empireum wrote:
Vista Ultimate R2 wrote:
My main Mac (Mac OS X Tiger 10.4.10):

If you don't mind me asking, what are the apps you have in the Dock? The icons are so small I can't recognize some of them.

Nothing too exciting I'm afraid! :P Finder, System Preferences, Terminal, Virtual PC 7, Safari, Firefox, MSN, Transmit, Stuffit Archive Manager, Stuffit Expander, Toast 6 Titanium, iTunes, GarageBand '05, iMovie '05, iWeb '08, iPhoto '08, Photoshop CS2, Word 2004, Acrobat Pro 8, GLQuake (OpenGL version of Quake I), Quake II, Quake III, Unreal Tournament :) (some of the iLife apps are older versions than others because Apple removed the non-AltiVec code from some but didn't from iWeb and iPhoto)


Fireware wrote:
Server 2003 datacenter on a 600mhz, single core P3 with 64mb ram. :O

Hehe :D Yup! :) It's set up with a quad-boot of Windows 98 SE, NT 4 Workstation, 2000 Advanced Server, and 2003 R2 Datacentre - the first 2 are extremely fast, feels like a brand new PC with them, 2000 is not bad (commit is slightly lower than 64 MB on startup so with no large-ish apps running it's not relying on virtual memory), 2003 is a little slow (commit is around 85 MB, ie more than the Ram :P). The speed of the lighter OSes shows that P3 is a good little CPU though, I think with a memory upgrade that little PC would really fly with XP/2003 (it's just a really small low-profile corporate desktop that I got from Freecycle). Yep, Datacentre is probably overkill on such a machine (;)), but I thought I might as well give the flagship version of Windows a test run on some real hardware :)

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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 3:33 pm 
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Vista Ultimate R2 wrote:
The graphics issues are because you have set PearPC to emulate a G4 processor, and there are issues with that when running Tiger - set it to emulate a G3 and you will be fine

Thanks, that fixed it. :) Don't know why I even set it to emulate a G4 first place... No comment about PearPC running on OS X? :wink:

Vista Ultimate R2 wrote:
Nothing too exciting I'm afraid! Tongue Finder, System Preferences, Terminal, Virtual PC 7, Safari, Firefox, MSN, Transmit, Stuffit Archive Manager, Stuffit Expander, Toast 6 Titanium, iTunes, GarageBand '05, iMovie '05, iWeb '08, iPhoto '08, Photoshop CS2, Word 2004, Acrobat Pro 8, GLQuake (OpenGL version of Quake I), Quake II, Quake III, Unreal Tournament Sad (some of the iLife apps are older versions than others because Apple removed the non-AltiVec code from some but didn't from iWeb and iPhoto)

Thanks for telling me, seems the G3 is used as a testing machine for all kinds of apps, isn't it? :)


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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 4:20 pm 
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empireum wrote:
No comment about PearPC running on OS X? :wink:

Umm, you're crazy? :P No, seriously, that's cool (I didn't even realise there was a version of PearPC for OS X!) - how fast is it, just out of interest? It would be especially interesting if you could run Xbench on it, as then I could compare the results with my G3 (I think PearPC on a new PC will run OS X at a similar speed to a real G3)


empireum wrote:
Thanks for telling me, seems the G3 is used as a testing machine for all kinds of apps, isn't it? :)

Yup, it's a brilliant machine, and is a great way for me to get to try the Mac world for myself without actually buying a Mac! Amazing to think it was effectively on the scrapheap when I got it, here's some more G3 awesomeness:

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(managed to catch the Genie in action! - tip: hold shift when maximising/minimising ;))


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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 7:45 pm 
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Vista Ultimate R2 wrote:
Yup, it's a brilliant machine, and is a great way for me to get to try the Mac world for myself without actually buying a Mac! Amazing to think it was effectively on the scrapheap when I got it, here's some more G3 awesomeness:

Truly an awesome machine for its age. Puts similarly old PCs to shame. I see you also have iWork '08 installed on there, I've been trying it for some time as well and Pages (the app in iWork I'm using the most) is nice.

Vista Ultimate R2 wrote:
Umm, you're crazy? Tongue No, seriously, that's cool (I didn't even realise there was a version of PearPC for OS X!) - how fast is it, just out of interest? It would be especially interesting if you could run Xbench on it, as then I could compare the results with my G3 (I think PearPC on a new PC will run OS X at a similar speed to a real G3)

There is no version of PearPC for OS X – I'm using a Windows version of PearPC 0.5pre, running on OS X (Intel) via CrossOver/Darwine. CrossOver/Darwine allows some Windows apps (including MS Office, for instance) to be run on OS X (Intel) just as Wine allows some Windows apps to be run on Linux/*BSD. :) So, basically, I'm doing "dual emulation" here. :) It feels quite adequate in terms of performance, but the graphics performance is really lacking, i.e. animations are quite slow. Not sure if this is the case with PearPC in general or if this is caused by Wine.
The Xbench scores are really abysmal, I bet the G3 will smoke it... :P Here they are (total score 1.15):
Image

Again, I'm not sure if this is normal for PearPC on a system like mine or if it has to do with Wine. I'll do some testing on Windows on another box to compare it. But as I've said, the system actually feels faster than these poor results might suggest, for instance, iTunes takes four bounces in the Dock to open, Safari takes four or five, i.e. they open in considerably less than 10 seconds. These Xbench scores are obtained at 1024x768x32bpp, with a video redraw rate of 80 ms (playing with that setting can make it run faster, but the GUI becomes less responsive in return, it's quite okay at 80 ms). As for the display settings, it'd probably be faster at a lower resolution, but I consider 1024x768 the minimum to work comfortably. And I know I'm supposed to use 15bpp instead of 32bpp but that gives a weird discoloration (a known problem when running PearPC in Wine). So, 1024x768x32bpp are the lowest display settings that make sense to use to me and lowering them just to increase the score would make no sense.

For a laugh, here's Xbench on the MacBook, natively, same tests performed (total score 79.26):
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Keep in mind the OpenGL and Quartz tests have been disabled every time as they apparently caused a crash in PearPC. Doing all tests (including OpenGL and Quartz) in Xbench increases the MacBook's native score to 87.30.

Can you do me a favour, I'm sure you also have PearPC installed (?) – please run Xbench there too (OpenGL/Quartz disabled) and post the score. Searching the net I found such low results are quite common for PearPC, but I'd like to know if this is what I can expect or if there's some way to squeeze some more out of it. I can accept it if the Wine emulation layer eats up some performance, however. But again, it's not as bad as these scores (the MacBook natively is ~70 times faster than PearPC on it!) might suggest. :wink:


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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 10:36 am 
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I got a total score of 1.55 in PearPC, with Mac OS X 10.4.2, PearPC 0.4, 32-bit colour in PearPC, 768 MB of memory allocated to OS X, and a redraw rate of 15 ms. The G3 scored 10.94 :) The scores in Xbench seem very dependent on CPU speed - looking at the other results that people have got, the scores and CPU speed of the machine seem to follow each other very closely. PearPC on my PC does feel very fast though, the OS itself is certainly as responsive as on a real Mac I think.

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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 10:39 am 
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Vista Ultimate R2 wrote:
I got a total score of 1.55 in PearPC, with Mac OS X 10.4.2, PearPC 0.4, 32-bit colour in PearPC, 768 MB of memory allocated to OS X, and a redraw rate of 15 ms. The G3 scored 10.94 :) The scores in Xbench seem very dependent on CPU speed - looking at the other results that people have got, the scores and CPU speed of the machine seem to follow each other very closely. PearPC on my PC does feel very fast though, the OS itself is certainly as responsive as on a real Mac I think.

Exactly, and that's because I wouldn't worry too much about that fairly low score. It is pleasantly fast to use on a fast machine (and it seems to use both cores on a dual-core box, but don't quote me on that) and that's what matters. I'm certain noone will use it to play games. :)

edit: I've now got the complete Xbench score, including graphics tests (Mac OS X 10.4.0, PearPC 0.5pre, 32bpp, 512MB RAM, 15ms video redraw rate): 1.31.


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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 4:59 pm 
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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 5:05 pm 
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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 5:12 pm 
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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 6:22 pm 
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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 3:53 am 
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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 8:46 am 
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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 11:39 am 
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empireum wrote:
There is no version of PearPC for OS X – I'm using a Windows version of PearPC 0.5pre, running on OS X (Intel) via CrossOver/Darwine.

Why don't you compile from source? Outside Windows, PearPC uses standard UNIX interfaces, and since SDL is supported, you don't even have to use X11.

empireum wrote:
So, basically, I'm doing "dual emulation" here.

Wine/Darwine isn't emulation (Wine is a recusive acronym for "Wine isn't an emulator"). It's an independent implementation of the Windows API on top of standard UNIX APIs (pthread, libX11, OSS, etc.).

Mine (background by nfinitegpu; Thanks :D):
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