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 PostPost subject: Re: MS-DOS 6.40        Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 11:09 pm 
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WinPC wrote:
Actually, Windows 3.1 can be installed over any version of MS-DOS that is at least version 3.1 or later.


Well, only if the whatever in MS-DOS that is used to run Win3.1 is present, and since this is a hobbyist version it might of not included whatever is needed to run 3.1.

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 PostPost subject: Re: MS-DOS 6.40        Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 11:44 pm 
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Kelton2 wrote:
WinPC wrote:
Actually, Windows 3.1 can be installed over any version of MS-DOS that is at least version 3.1 or later.


Well, only if the whatever in MS-DOS that is used to run Win3.1 is present, and since this is a hobbyist version it might of not included whatever is needed to run 3.1.

Considering the MS-DOS 6.40 kernel is a direct modification of the kernel of either MS-DOS 6.22 or IBM PC DOS 7.10 (might go for the latter due to FAT32 support), it definitely has whatever is needed to run Windows 3.x.

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 PostPost subject: Re: MS-DOS 6.40        Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 1:42 pm 
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 PostPost subject: Re: MS-DOS 6.40        Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 12:33 am 
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Correct. Windows 3.x isn't fussy, though there may be a potential for an odd crash or three if one uses another DOS as it may have a bug or three of its own. However, being Microsoft's own well-tested DOS at heart, I can't see why it shouldn't be a comparable drop-in.


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 PostPost subject: Re: MS-DOS 6.40        Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 3:58 pm 
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Well, I'm currently working on the Far East support part, I need to construct the fonts etc., the most difficult being code page 934 (Korean IBM) since it's been difficult to find mappings for it. I've read on IBM that code page 934 consists of character sets 891 (IBM Korean single-byte character set) and 926 (IBM Korean double-byte character set from 1989), and found Unicode mappings for both. However, I have also e-mailed IBM using the e-mail address provided on their globalization site for more information, my question about code page 934 has been referred to an expert, whose reply I'm still waiting for.
The Far East code pages MS-DOS 6.40 is at the moment planned to support are:
- 932: Japanese Shift-JIS with IBM and Microsoft extensions;
- 934: Korean IBM;
- 936: Simplified Chinese GBK and Microsoft;
- 938: Traditional Chinese IBM;
- 949: Korean Wansung/KS-56xx and Microsoft;
- 950: Traditional Chinese ETen and Microsoft;
- 1361: Korean Johab.

Now, for time being, the Advanced API will not support DBCS to Unicode (and vice-versa) conversion, due to the sheer size such a table would take in memory. But I'll be looking into getting that done as well.

Edit: Added the following two code pages to the plans:
- 954: Japanese EUC-JP;
- 964: Traditional Chinese EUC-TW.

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Last edited by Battler on Sat Feb 16, 2013 7:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 PostPost subject: Re: MS-DOS 6.40        Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 7:04 pm 
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so what will this have over MS-DOS 7?

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Last edited by jeggy111 on Sat Feb 16, 2013 10:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 PostPost subject: Re: MS-DOS 6.40        Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 1:58 pm 
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jeggy111 wrote:
so what has this got over MS-DOS 7?

This isn't based on MS-DOS 7, it's based on MS-DOS 6.22...

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 PostPost subject: Re: MS-DOS 6.40        Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 7:12 pm 
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jeggy111 wrote:
so what has this got over MS-DOS 7?

Better international support, for one, as in better support for both single-byte and double-byte code pages.

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 PostPost subject: Re: MS-DOS 6.40        Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 10:55 pm 
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Ok, sorry if my question came out a little rude! I like the idea of a large community project to update all the DOS 5-6.22-Win 3.x stuff for a definite, up-to-date version. At the moment, I'm finding as many updates and drivers for win 3.x and DOS so we can take an inventory for all of the stuff we can do with it.

I think if we can all agree on a definitive collection of software and updates, we could have it run better on more modern PC's. I don't own a copy of either the Win 3.x or DOS source code, and I wouldn't really be able to do much with it, but as a programmer in spare time, I could write some installers and such if needs be.

Anyway, best of luck with the DOS mod!

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 PostPost subject: Re: MS-DOS 6.40        Posted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 2:35 pm 
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- jeggy111: Do you, by any chance, know anything about writing East Asian font/display drivers for DOS? Because I'd really need someone who has good knowledge in that to help me. At the moment I'm improving Far East support by injecting code into Microsoft's drivers to try to fix as many of their flaws as possible. But that's definitely not an optimal solution.

Also, I'd really like to see a driver for DOS for TCP/IP over LAN. I mean, a driver that is NOT Microsoft LAN Manager, as that one uses way too much memory.

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 PostPost subject: Re: MS-DOS 6.40        Posted: Sat Jun 22, 2013 5:33 pm 
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So here is a small status update for the project:
- The fonts for code pages 932 (Japanese Shift-JIS with IBM and NEC extensions), 934 (Korean IBM), and 954 (Japanese EUC-JP) are 100% done, that is 3 DBCS code pages out of the 12 planned;
- I am writing a utility named XCHCP which will extend on the functionality provided by the CHCP command in COMMAND.COM, among other things you will be able to obtain information about code pages and services installed, as well change the system code page and even the country code on the fly;
- The ADISP.SYS universal driver (modification of Microsoft Japanese JDISP.SYS) for DBCS code pages is done;
- The project to patch the Microsoft JFONT.SYS driver into a universal AFONT.SYS has been shelved because I have found the source code to a 3rd party Japanese DBCS font driver which I patched to make it more universal and named it AFONT.SYS;
- I am looking into modifying the IBM PC DOS 7.1 kernel for this project instead of the MS-DOS 6.22 one, so I can get FAT32 support, but some function in its IBMDOS.COM (which I'm renaming to MSDOS.SYS for obvious reasons) make Windows 3.x not run in 386 Enhanced mode so I'm looking in what's causing the problem so I can patch that or at least create a workaround device driver;
- I have added to MULTILNG.SYS a little workaround for the INT 21h change code page call so code pages 350-399 act as aliases for code pages 1350-1399, to be able to switch to eg. code page 1361 (Korean KS C 5601-1992/Johab) with CHCP, though it will be recommended to use XCHCP instead;
- I have finished a preliminary update of COUNTRY.SYS which includes some fixed country settings (eg. for ex-Yugoslavian countries) and support for some new code pages.

To do for Public Milestone 1:
- Get done the fonts for all 12 planned DBCS code pages;
- Finish XCHCP;
- Get Windows 3.1 to run while retaining FAT32 support;
- Get the new Setup done.

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 PostPost subject: Re: MS-DOS 6.40        Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 1:43 am 
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Battler wrote:
- I am looking into modifying the IBM PC DOS 7.1 kernel for this project instead of the MS-DOS 6.22 one, so I can get FAT32 support, but some function in its IBMDOS.COM (which I'm renaming to MSDOS.SYS for obvious reasons) make Windows 3.x not run in 386 Enhanced mode so I'm looking in what's causing the problem so I can patch that or at least create a workaround device driver.
Why not just use MS-DOS 7.1 from Windows 95 OSR 2.x and Windows 98, or MS-DOS 8.0 from Windows Me? Not only does that have FAT32 support, but it's also able to run Windows 3.1 in 386 Enhanced Mode without any issues, as long as the correct patch is applied.


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 PostPost subject: Re: MS-DOS 6.40        Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 2:24 am 
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WinPC wrote:
Battler wrote:
- I am looking into modifying the IBM PC DOS 7.1 kernel for this project instead of the MS-DOS 6.22 one, so I can get FAT32 support, but some function in its IBMDOS.COM (which I'm renaming to MSDOS.SYS for obvious reasons) make Windows 3.x not run in 386 Enhanced mode so I'm looking in what's causing the problem so I can patch that or at least create a workaround device driver.
Why not just use MS-DOS 7.1 from Windows 95 OSR 2.x and Windows 98, or MS-DOS 8.0 from Windows Me? Not only does that have FAT32 support, but it's also able to run Windows 3.1 in 386 Enhanced Mode without any issues, as long as the correct patch is applied.


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 PostPost subject: Re: MS-DOS 6.40        Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 2:34 am 
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I was referring to Battler, who seems to be interested in creating a continuation of Microsoft's version of DOS (as opposed to the versions from IBM or Digital Research/Novell/Caldera).


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 PostPost subject: Re: MS-DOS 6.40        Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 9:49 am 
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Again, as I said before in this very same thread, Windows 9x's DOS just doesn't look like DOS anymore. Its two boot files were merged into one and reworked, and everything else have been reworked too, with a completely new string table format, etc. IBM's PC DOS 7.1 in this case looks like old IBM and MS-DOS, with all files still written the old way. And that's important here - making a DOS that looks like a real DOS, rather than like the reworked DOS from Windows 9x.

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 PostPost subject: Re: MS-DOS 6.40        Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 9:44 pm 
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Alright, to make XCHCP work better, specifically to get all valid code pages for a specific country faster, I have added country info type 8 (which tells you which code page follows the one you are requesting the information of) to all countries and code pages in COUNTRY.SYS. To properly support it, I had to patch MSDOS.SYS too, so I took the occasion to also add proper support for info type 3 (lowercase table).
However, now there seems to be an incompatibility with NLSFUNC, as NLSFUNC now complains about being unable to read country file whenever I use CHCP to change code page, well or maybe CHCP itself is the one that complains. This also causes the entire OS to freeze when I switch to a DBCS code page (eg. 932) whose driver is installed at the moment of trying. It changes to VGA DBCS (8x19) mode and then freezes. I still need to see what's going on.

Edit: The error messages are gone now, I had to patch NLSFUNC in two parts to look for the correct new offsets to some country data in the DOS segment, specifically the locations of the pointer to the converter to upper case, and of the pointer to the DBCS lead bytes entry (type 7). Now the error message no longer appears and the freeze on switching to a DBCS code page with an installed DBCS driver is gone too.

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 PostPost subject: Re: MS-DOS 6.40        Posted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 9:14 pm 
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So, it turns out the problems running Windows 3.1x in 386 Enhanced Mode on the PC DOS 7.1 kernel were due to there being some actual problems with the way my virtual hard disk was formatted... after swapping it out for a larger one and resizing the main partition with PowerQuest Partition Magic, suddenly, I can run Windows 3.1x in 386 Enhanced mode just fine. In addition, I found out that PC DOS 7.1 does implement Microsoft's LOCK API from MS-DOS 7.x, but omits the error message telling you the system was halted and to use LOCK next time, thus not being exactly clear - meaning the operations can proceed but the INT 26h call is still blocked, thus producing unpredictable results. To get around that, I'm trying to implement Microsoft's LOCK error message and system halt for the PC DOS 7.1 kernel.
But apart from that, the PC DOS 7.1 kernel has everything I need for MS-DOS 6.40, including especially FAT32 support. So I will be using it, appropriately modified, for this project. I will apply to above-mentioned COUNTRY-related patch to it (I originally patched the MSDOS.SYS which was a modification of the Chicago 58s one, as it was the one I originally used for this project) too, of course, as it's going to be needed.

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 PostPost subject: Re: MS-DOS 6.40        Posted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 10:12 pm 
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Battler wrote:
So, it turns out the problems running Windows 3.1x in 386 Enhanced Mode on the PC DOS 7.1 kernel were due to there being some actual problems with the way my virtual hard disk was formatted... after swapping it out for a larger one and resizing the main partition with PowerQuest Partition Magic, suddenly, I can run Windows 3.1x in 386 Enhanced mode just fine. In addition, I found out that PC DOS 7.1 does implement Microsoft's LOCK API from MS-DOS 7.x, but omits the error message telling you the system was halted and to use LOCK next time, thus not being exactly clear - meaning the operations can proceed but the INT 26h call is still blocked, thus producing unpredictable results. To get around that, I'm trying to implement Microsoft's LOCK error message and system halt for the PC DOS 7.1 kernel.
But apart from that, the PC DOS 7.1 kernel has everything I need for MS-DOS 6.40, including especially FAT32 support. So I will be using it, appropriately modified, for this project. I will apply to above-mentioned COUNTRY-related patch to it (I originally patched the MSDOS.SYS which was a modification of the Chicago 58s one, as it was the one I originally used for this project) too, of course, as it's going to be needed.
To me, it seems that the problem of Windows 3.1 running in 386 Enhanced Mode relates to the fact that 32-bit Disk Access is used, unless it is turned off in the Control Panel (which is really a frontend for editing SYSTEM.INI in this case).

Since 32-bit Disk Access must bypass DOS to access the disk partition, it's easy to see why that would fail on a disk that wasn't formatted correctly, because it probably conflicts with how it manages the disk, and so on.

Of course, I am not completely sure about this, but that sounds to me like the most likely explanation.


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 PostPost subject: Re: MS-DOS 6.40        Posted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 10:23 pm 
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- WinPC: I seriously doubt the 32-bit Disk Access is at fault here, considering it doesn't get turned at all, even when running the same copy of Windows on MS-DOS 6.00. Windows clearly tells me it's accessing the hard disk via BIOS, and the 32-bit Disk Access option is grayed out.
Again, I think it has to do with MS-DOS 6.00 which is a bit buggy when it comes to partitioning and formatting. After all, the error was reported by both the PC DOS 7.1 and MS-DOS 7.1 (from Windows 98 SE) kernels, and also by PowerQuest Partition Magic.
Edit: But if it was the 32-bit Disk Access that triggered it, it would happen also under MS-DOS 6.00, but yet it doesn't.

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 PostPost subject: Re: MS-DOS 6.40        Posted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 10:26 pm 
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Battler wrote:
- WinPC: I seriously doubt the 32-bit Disk Access is at fault here, considering it doesn't get turned at all, even when running the same copy of Windows on MS-DOS 6.00. Windows clearly tells me it's accessing the hard disk via BIOS, and the 32-bit Disk Access option is grayed out.
Again, I think it has to do with MS-DOS 6.00 which is a bit buggy when it comes to partitioning and formatting. After all, the error was reported by both the PC DOS 7.1 and MS-DOS 7.1 (from Windows 98 SE) kernels, and also by PowerQuest Partition Magic.
Edit: But if it was the 32-bit Disk Access that triggered it, it would happen also under MS-DOS 6.00, but yet it doesn't.
Well, in that case then, you're probably correct.


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 PostPost subject: Re: MS-DOS 6.40        Posted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 10:44 pm 
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Also, I forgot to mention that I had to fix my NLSFUNC patch because it was returning a buffer full of 0x00 bytes for any country other than the global one on an INT 21h / ah=38h call, which caused the part of AARD that called INT 21h / ah = 38h / al=01h / bx=0001h to fail because AARD saw a segment:offset of 0000:0000 for the case map, which obviously isn't in the DOS segment. Turned out, I forgot to push the ES segment register on the start of the patched code, and pop it at the end, causing the program to use the wrong ES segment after the end of the patched code.

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 PostPost subject: Re: MS-DOS 6.40        Posted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 12:18 pm 
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 PostPost subject: Re: MS-DOS 6.40        Posted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 11:55 pm 
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Is dos capable of handling 64 bit? I've never seen a x64 build of Win3.1/3.11/3.5 neither a dos version. Would such thing be possible to make?


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 PostPost subject: Re: MS-DOS 6.40        Posted: Tue Jul 30, 2013 12:08 am 
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Is dos capable of handling 64 bit? I've never seen a x64 build of Win3.1/3.11/3.5 neither a dos version. Would such thing be possible to make?


Not without the source code for the kernel. A 64-bit operating systems implies support for 64-bit applications as well as the full 64-bit memory addressing. If I remember correctly, memory addressing is either implemented in the Hardware Abstraction Layer (HAL) or the kernel. Also, certain processor functions are available in 64-bit mode that are not available in legacy x86 compatibility mode.

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 PostPost subject: Re: MS-DOS 6.40        Posted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 4:42 pm 
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- GoCheckINC: MS-DOS and Windows 3.x aren't even 32-bit (with the exception of Windows 3.x 386 Enhanced Mode which uses stuff like 32-bit drivers), and when the 64-bit x64 architecture was invented, MS-DOS had been abandoned for about a decade already.

By the way, work on MS-DOS 6.40 is continuing. The MSDOSX API code has been refactored a bit so the data (variables, etc.) is on its own after the code now, much like it's done in MSDOS.SYS too. In addition, some calls have been rewritten too. The CPU check is now improved and can correctly identify up to and including a Pentium (the previous code only up to and including a 386), while the AARD API has been rewritten from scratch completely. A function was added to return the MSDOSX data segment. In addition, the interrupt has been moved again, from 45h to 32h which is as low as I can get.

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