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 PostPost subject: MacOS on IBM Power Series 850?        Posted: Tue May 15, 2007 11:03 pm 
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I have an old IBM Power Series 850 computer with 133MHz PowerPC CPU and 64MB of RAM. There is 1GB Seagate normal IDE HDD with Windows NT 4 installed.
Is it possible to install MacOS on this computer?
I has PowerPC processor.

This computer has strange boot procedure:
1. After power is on, BIOS preforms POST.
2a. If no HDDs are found, computer asks for System Management Services floppy disk. This floppy contains nice BIOS setup program.
2b. If HDD is found, computer seeks for 5MB partition with ARC BootLoader. If found, boots it.
3. ARC lets you install or boot WinNT.
4. If youy choose to boot WinNT, ARC boots another 5-MB FAT partition, which makes NTFS drives accessible
5. When NTFS C: drive is accessible, system boots WinNT.

I think it's possible to install Linux on this computer simply (for Linux users - I don't know any command in Linux) copying bootable Linux floppy disk image to ARC partition. But how to install MacOS?

Sorry for my English.


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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Tue May 15, 2007 11:29 pm 
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No, I think you can only install Mac OS on an actual Mac or a Mac clone (which I don't think were ever made by IBM), ie a computer with a Macintosh ROM.

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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Tue May 15, 2007 11:38 pm 
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Vista is right, you need a system with a Mac OS ROM otherwise it won't run Mac OS natively. Your only possibility to run an (older) version of Mac OS would probably be to install Linux on the box, and then set up MOL (Mac-On-Linux) to start a Mac OS instance. This way, you can run Mac OS on "unsupported" (i.e. non-Apple, non Mac-clone PowerPC) machines like the Pegasos and others.


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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 12:18 am 
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I have another question: Currently, there is Windows NT 4.0 Workstation in Polish installed. There is Microsoft Internet Explorer 2.0!
I can't install any service packs, because Microsoft abandoned support for PowerPC before SP2 PL came out. I can't install MS IE5/6 because it's in Intel format.
Which browser will be good for surfing Internet from this machine?


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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 12:36 am 
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Strange that they produced NT4 for PPC but then only provided service packs etc for the Alpha and x86 versions - you'd have been pretty annoyed if you'd bought NT4 for PPC and then found you didn't get any updates!

Even if they did make any versions of Internet Explorer after the built-in version 2, it's unlikely any would be new enough to be useable nowadays (only 5 and up seem to work with modern websites). There is actually IE5 for Windows 3.1, so not making it for all the supported architectures of NT 4.0 seems a bit mean of them! It seems very unlikely that you'll find any browsers or other applications that work on PPC NT - it was not widely used then and certainly not now.

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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 12:39 am 
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Not that it probably means much, but I was certain that at least an IE3.2
build was available for that architecture, I may even have it in that
language too, it'd take some digging though.


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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 12:46 am 
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MS released newer IEs for PPC, but they're in Mac format. For many people PPC=MAC (my IT teacher told me, that my IBM is a Mac :D )
But... it's a good idea to try 16-bit browsers (or DOS Arachne?)


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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 12:52 am 
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It seems unlikely that 16-bit browsers work, unless the PPC build of NT4 had a special version of the NTVDM, in which case IE5 for Windows 3.1 would work. You can get 16-bit IEs from here. I do have some discs with all the foreign-language versions of IE4, but I think there are only x86 and Alpha versions. IE3 would be worse than useless with the modern web, as much so as IE2, I think - those sorts of browsers tend to either crash or display an unusable web page nowadays.

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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 1:00 am 
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Thanks a lot
I have a big collection of abandonware (and some MS free products/betas), so I think I'll find 16-bit IE 5, maybe in Polish.
I'll try when I get to this computer (I don't have it in my room).


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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 4:24 am 
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If NT4/PPC doesn't run 16-bit apps, then I'd suggest you install OS/2 PPC on it. It has an x86 emulator and is able to run DOS and Windows 3.x applications.


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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 6:23 am 
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Is there any stable release of OS/2 PPC? I heard about some unstable preliminary releases, but I have never installed OS/2 for PPC.
Where I can get this version? I think OS/2 Warp 3 is near abandonware.


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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 6:24 am 
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I think NT4/PPC does run 16-bit apps, but I won't promise this is true. As for OS/2 PPC, there's the preliminiary release (based on 2.1?) and this is on the server IIRC.


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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 6:40 am 
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I found some CD image in my arcihve, it's labeled "OS2W4-PPC" or something like that. I'll try this CD, it looks it's OS/2!
One problem: How to boot it? There are no floppy images (like in OS/2 for PC), there are some system files in the root of CD, but CD isn't bootable (in ElTorito fdd emulation standard)


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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 8:19 pm 
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MCbx wrote:
I found some CD image in my arcihve, it's labeled "OS2W4-PPC" or something like that. I'll try this CD, it looks it's OS/2!
One problem: How to boot it? There are no floppy images (like in OS/2 for PC), there are some system files in the root of CD, but CD isn't bootable (in ElTorito fdd emulation standard)
I thought every OS/2 Warp 4 CD is bootable. But i never used it anyway. My friend had a compilation that he booted cd, inserted blank floppy and program on cd writed image to the floppy...


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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 8:39 pm 
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I think you need to "boot" from the CD from your machine's ARC console if that is possible. I am not too knowledgeable on that, so I may be wrong, but when installing NT on such a box, this is basically what you have to do.


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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 4:54 pm 
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MCbx wrote:
I found some CD image in my arcihve, it's labeled "OS2W4-PPC" or something like that. I'll try this CD, it looks it's OS/2!
One problem: How to boot it? There are no floppy images (like in OS/2 for PC), there are some system files in the root of CD, but CD isn't bootable (in ElTorito fdd emulation standard)

El Torito is only for PCs, AFAIK. PowerPC machines (PReP and CHRP, that is; Open Firmware PowerPCs, such as Macs, have a variety of boot methods) boot from a folder (sometimes on a special partition, if the CD isn't ISO formatted) called "ppc". Otherwise (if no such folder is available), as empireum said, they boot into the ARC console, and from there you can start the installation.


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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 4:48 am 
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Still many problems with booting OS/2.
In README file it's written, that OS/2 installation CD should boot automatically.
Maybe I am burning CD wrong way, or maybe my CD-reader in IBM isn't good for booting PPC OSes.
I've changed original Mitsumi CD-ROM drive in my IBM because it was only 4X - It won't read CDs recorded by today's CDRW drives. Even these CDs burned using 4X speed.
The new drive is also Mitsumi, but 16X. In WinNT it works very good, but I can't boot OS/2 from BIOS level.


I am burning CDs in Nero burning ROM 6.6 from NRG image (4x, DAO, closing CD).

There is one more thing. When I changed CD-ROM drives, drive's name disappeared from boot list (accessible by pressing F2). It was:
Code:
IDE1,1    MITSUMI CD-ROM (...)

Now , it's only:
Code:
 IDE1,1               


Is there any version of OS/2 Warp for PPC on floppies? My IBM can boot from floppy successfuly after pressing F4.

P.S. It's impossible to install OS/2 from ARC - ARC supports only Windows NT 3.51 or 4.0

:arrow: Empireum
I am beginner, in which server is OS/2 Warp for PPC? Maybe I have bad version.

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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 8:25 am 
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MCbx wrote:
I am beginner, in which server is OS/2 Warp for PPC? Maybe I have bad version.

The PPC version of OS/2 isn't on any of the x86 versions. There is an OS/2 PPC beta floating around, you should try that.


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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 7:45 pm 
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And this OS/2 PowerPC beta (based on OS/2 2.1 IIRC) is on Andy's server, don't know on which account though.


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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 3:54 am 
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empireum wrote:
And this OS/2 PowerPC beta (based on OS/2 2.1 IIRC)

Actually, the kernel is entirely different from the OS/2 x86 kernel (it's based on Mach IIRC, and so is a microkernel, unlike the monolithic x86 kernel), but it implements the exact same API, and the userland is somewhere between OS/2 Warp 3 and 4. There are some improvements that never went into OS/2 Warp 4, though. The DOS subsystem in the PPC version (the PPC OS/2 has a 486 emulator built-in) is based around PC DOS 7.0, unlike the PC DOS 5.0 in the x86 version.


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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 6:10 am 
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OK. So, I burned CD-ROM (2x speed), put it to original Mitsumi 4X drive, and it failed to read CD :(. I heard that CD tries to read, when I choosen "Boot Other Device" -> "IDE1,1 - Mitsumi.." option.
When I replaced CD-ROM drive, it doesn't boot from CD. In Windows NT, of course, CD is readable, but from "boot other device" option, my system waits a few seconds and returns to menu without any sound from CD-ROM drive.

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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 2:51 pm 
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You may need an old CD (the 650 meg)... Try to use Alchohol 120% with an old CD-R. Thats how I burn for my PPC7300...

In regards to your main question ... No, it lacks Apple's ToolKit.

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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 3:36 am 
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The above posters are incorrect. Some early IBM Power-based machines could indeed run Mac OS. I'm not sure exactly which models, but if you look around you can find data.

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 PostPost subject: Re: MacOS on IBM Power Series 850?        Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 12:07 am 
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MCbx wrote:
I have an old IBM Power Series 850 computer with 133MHz PowerPC CPU and 64MB of RAM. There is 1GB Seagate normal IDE HDD with Windows NT 4 installed.
Is it possible to install MacOS on this computer?
I has PowerPC processor.

This computer has strange boot procedure:
1. After power is on, BIOS preforms POST.
2a. If no HDDs are found, computer asks for System Management Services floppy disk. This floppy contains nice BIOS setup program.
2b. If HDD is found, computer seeks for 5MB partition with ARC BootLoader. If found, boots it.
3. ARC lets you install or boot WinNT.
4. If youy choose to boot WinNT, ARC boots another 5-MB FAT partition, which makes NTFS drives accessible
5. When NTFS C: drive is accessible, system boots WinNT.

I think it's possible to install Linux on this computer simply (for Linux users - I don't know any command in Linux) copying bootable Linux floppy disk image to ARC partition. But how to install MacOS?

Sorry for my English.


Heck, unfortunately you can't do it :roll:
PowerPC NT systems ran ARC and were exclusively little endian... instead Mac OS X runs on big endian PPCs.
Also, the RAM is insufficient... and the PowerPC processor that it has doesn't run Tiger, probably only Jaguar (or maybe Tiger) with XPostFacto...

For the web browser problem, you can always try to compile an open source browser if you have the developing tools... there exist some Mozilla builds for Alpha, so why not.


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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 1:18 am 
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He wasn't explicitly talking of Mac OS X, he was talking about Mac OS in general, which also implies the classic Mac OS.


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