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 PostPost subject: [Guide] Dumping and Writing Mac floppies        Posted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 7:46 pm 
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Here's a guide on how to quickly dump Macintosh floppies using HFVExplorer, among other things.

Dumping a 1400k or 800k floppy:

    Step 1: You can download the software HFVExplorer here. The software doesn't require any installing, simply extract all the files to a folder or on the desktop.


    Step 2: Open HFVExplorer.exe. You will be greeted with a listing of folders in C:\ in the main section of the window. You will also see a listing of the drives on your computer on the left.

    Image


    Step 3: Verify that the floppy disk is in the drive. Click on A:\ in HFVExplorer. HFVExplorer can view most early Macintosh files with ease (and even copy them over to the Windows computer in a readable format, but more on this later).


    Step 4: To dump a floppy, click on this icon in the toolbar: Image

    You'll see this dialogue box appear:

    Image


    Step 5: Select your floppy disk drive. On most computers, this will be drive A:.


    Step 6: Click on the >> button next to "Volume file path" and choose where you want to dump the floppy disk to. Use .dsk or .img as a file extension when dumping.

    Image


    Step 7: Click Save after choosing a location. After that, click OK on the "Create volume file from floppy" window. The dumping process will begin. After a few minutes, it should be finished.


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Writing to a floppy:

    Step 1: Click on this icon in the HFVExplorer toolbar: Image


    Step 2: You'll see this dialogue box. Select your floppy drive. Verify that you have either a 1440k or 800k floppy disk in your floppy drive. It doesn't have to be formatted.

    Image


    Step 3: Select the location of the image file. If you can't see it, set the File Type to All Files.

    Image


    Step 4: Click Open on that window, then click OK on the "Write volume file to floppy" window.


    Step 5: You will receive a warning if the floppy disk has data on it. Please remember that the data will be destroyed and overwritten if you proceed with this process. If you proceed, the contents of the floppy disk will be overwritten with the image.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Creating Blank Images using HFVExplorer:

    Step 1. Go to the menu bar, click on File, then click on Format New Volume.

    Step 2. You'll be presented with this dialogue box. Enter the name of the volume. The name of the volume will be how it is named to your Macintosh. Choose the size. You can choose from a list or enter a custom amount in bytes, kilobytes, megabytes or gigabytes.

    Image


    Step 3. Select where you want to save the image.

    Image


    Step 4. Click Save on that window, then click OK in the "New volume" window.

    Step 5. The volume will be created, and you will be able to view it in HFVExplorer.
    Image

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Modifying images in HFVExplorer:

    Step 1. Go to the menu bar, click on File, then click on Open volume.

    Step 2. Select a Macintosh disk image that is properly formatted with HFV and open it. You may have to set the file type to All files to open the image you want. Click Open after you've selected it.

    Image

    Note: If nothing happens after selecting the file, or you see a white screen, or receive an error message, the disk image might not be formatted for HFV.

    Please note: The previous steps are optional if you want to modify a floppy disk instead of an image.
    Simply click on your A:\ drive in the drive list with a HFV-Formatted disk in the drive and you will be able to view the files on the disk. You will not be able to modify the disk if it is read-only.

    Step 3. If everything works, you should be able to browse the contents of the disk.
    Image

    You can do basic file management here - you can move files, create and remove directories, etc. However, you can modify the file settings as well.

    Step 4. You can modify the settings of the file here...Here are the explanations to what these options do:

    Common
      • Name - self-explanatory, the name of the file that appears.
      • Node ID - unknown
      • Parent ID - unknown
      • Created - date created (unit of measurement unknown)
      • Modified - date last modified (unit of measurement unknown)
      • Backup - unknown (unit of measurement unknown)
      • (x,y) - position of icon in folder

    File
      • Resource Size - size of resource fork
      • Data Size - size of data fork
      • Type - type of file (APPL = Application)
      • Creator - creator signature

    Folder
      • Items in Dir - items in directory
      • (top, left) - position of window on screen
      • (bottom, right) - position of window on screen

    Flags
      • Directory - is a directory
      • Is in Desktop - is on desktop
      • Has colors - icon has colors
      • Reserved color - unknown
      • Req. switch launch - unknown
      • Is shared - is shared
      • Has no inits - was never initialized
      • Has been inited - was initialized more than once
      • Reserved - unknown
      • Has custom icon - has custom icon
      • Is stationery - file marked as stationery
      • Is name-locked - cannot be re-named
      • Has bundle - is an application
      • Is invisible - is a hidden file
      • Is alias - is a shortcut
      • Is locked - is read-only

    Image

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Coming soon...
    Copying Mac files to Windows in HFVExplorer
    Copying Windows files to Mac in HFVExplorer
    Dumping images using DiskCopy
    Writing images using DiskCopy
    Creating images using DiskCopy


Enjoy :)

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Last edited by Patrick on Fri Jul 26, 2013 3:19 am, edited 5 times in total.

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 PostPost subject: Re: [Guide] Dumping and Writing Mac floppies using HFVExplor        Posted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 8:38 pm 
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Stickied, good work!

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 PostPost subject: Re: [Guide] Dumping and Writing Mac floppies        Posted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 9:59 pm 
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IIRC 800k Mac floppies are physically incompatible with PC floppy drives and have to be dumped on Macs (which are compatible) or Amigas (which have software-controlled floppy drives and can read just about anything).


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 PostPost subject: Re: [Guide] Dumping and Writing Mac floppies        Posted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 12:15 am 
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I really like your guide, and think it works great, but... what about dd? The truth is, if I'm on a recent Mac (with OS X 10.1+ in it) and attach a USB floppy drive to it, or if I'm on a Gnu/Linux or Solaris box, I could just do a quick dd command, similar to this for Gnu/Linux: dd if=/dev/fd0 of=floppy.img and back again with dd if=floppy.img of=/dev/fd0. To me, that's the more universal and the easiest way to dump and write *any* 3.5" floppies, regardless of format.


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 PostPost subject: Re: [Guide] Dumping and Writing Mac floppies        Posted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 12:29 am 
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after64k wrote:
I really like your guide, and think it works great, but... what about dd? The truth is, if I'm on a recent Mac (with OS X 10.1+ in it) and attach a USB floppy drive to it, or if I'm on a Gnu/Linux or Solaris box, I could just do a quick dd command, similar to this for Gnu/Linux: dd if=/dev/fd0 of=floppy.img and back again with dd if=floppy.img of=/dev/fd0. To me, that's the more universal and the easiest way to dump and write *any* 3.5" floppies, regardless of format.

I understand this, but this is a guide generally intended for Windows, which doesn't have that command.

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 PostPost subject: Re: [Guide] Dumping and Writing Mac floppies        Posted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 1:33 am 
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Patrick wrote:
after64k wrote:
I really like your guide, and think it works great, but... what about dd? The truth is, if I'm on a recent Mac (with OS X 10.1+ in it) and attach a USB floppy drive to it, or if I'm on a Gnu/Linux or Solaris box, I could just do a quick dd command, similar to this for Gnu/Linux: dd if=/dev/fd0 of=floppy.img and back again with dd if=floppy.img of=/dev/fd0. To me, that's the more universal and the easiest way to dump and write *any* 3.5" floppies, regardless of format.

I understand this, but this is a guide generally intended for Windows, which doesn't have that command.

And besides, HFV Explorer allows you to actually manipulate the files inside the image. Linux wouldn't be able to understand the file system from these old Mac disks. 'dd' could probably make copies, and that's about it. HFV Explorer does a lot more than that.


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 PostPost subject: Re: [Guide] Dumping and Writing Mac floppies        Posted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 2:33 am 
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Quote:
Linux wouldn't be able to understand the file system from these old Mac disks.


Please remember it's Gnu/Linux... Linux is just the kernel, the Gnu programs, utilities, etc. are what make a lot of distributions possible. :-) Anyway... I think most distributions can read HFS disks, but there's not support (yet) to write to HFS Extended disks by default unless writing is forced, which is highly unrecommended because it can damage said HFS+ disk. And they can be browsed, but it is definitely not as easy as HFVExplorer. I used to dual-boot Debian with OS X v10.4.11 on my G4, so I do know this is possible.

But please understand I really do like this tutorial a lot and think it's very well written with the step-by-step format, and I do apologize if it appears I was trying to replace anything it was saying. I honestly wasn't -- in any way. I just wanted to show another method for people to import+write floppies that don't have Windows & HFVExplorer; that have just OS X and Gnu/Linux instead. So the dd command was just an alternate suggestion I had just to help other users. And, I do wholeheartedly agree that on Windows, HFVExplorer is the best way to work with HFS disks & images. Thanks. :)


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 PostPost subject: Re: [Guide] Dumping and Writing Mac floppies        Posted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 12:04 pm 
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Regarding dd: there are ports of dd to win32!
(except with at least this port, like the readme says, you have to use NT device names, not drive letters)

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 PostPost subject: Re: [Guide] Dumping and Writing Mac floppies        Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 6:07 am 
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ppc_digger wrote:
IIRC 800k Mac floppies are physically incompatible with PC floppy drives and have to be dumped on Macs (which are compatible) or Amigas (which have software-controlled floppy drives and can read just about anything).

I think this is worth drawing some attention to for those who run across older Mac floppies and are trying to dump them. ppc_digger is correct. Before HD floppies Macs used 400k and 800k floppy formats which were derived from older Apple II formats and are incompatible with PC drives. The 400K and 800K 3½ disks used by older Macs use a recording method called group code recording (GCR) and variable speed. See this Wikipedia page on GCR. According to this forum post KyroFlux does support dumping these on a PC. Again, it's worth noting that the HFVExplorer method in Windows described above does not work for these though.


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 PostPost subject: Re: [Guide] Dumping and Writing Mac floppies        Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 8:14 am 
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OldMac wrote:
ppc_digger wrote:
IIRC 800k Mac floppies are physically incompatible with PC floppy drives and have to be dumped on Macs (which are compatible) or Amigas (which have software-controlled floppy drives and can read just about anything).

I think this is worth drawing some attention to for those who run across older Mac floppies and are trying to dump them. ppc_digger is correct. Before HD floppies Macs used 400k and 800k floppy formats which were derived from older Apple II formats and are incompatible with PC drives. The 400K and 800K 3½ disks used by older Macs use a recording method called group code recording (GCR) and variable speed. See this Wikipedia page on GCR. According to this forum post KyroFlux does support dumping these on a PC. Again, it's worth noting that the HFVExplorer method in Windows described above does not work for these though.


They are right. You can even end destroying these old GCR 800k floppies if you try to read them with a PC floppy drive/controller. That happened to me once many years ago.
A big WARNING is need here.


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 PostPost subject: Re: [Guide] Dumping and Writing Mac floppies        Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 8:37 am 
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Going a step further I would suggest that HFVExplorer is not a great program for creating disk image archives, even of HD disks. If you have access to an actual Mac from the period and can use Apple Disk Copy to create the image that would seem to be a better option, that would definitely be my preferred option for 400k/800k disks and probably for HD disks as well, with using dd in Linux a reasonable alternative for HD disks. HFVExplorer is a useful utility, but it was never really designed for disk imaging and the last time I checked it was not being maintained which means it has a few quirks in modern Windows and is probably going to stop working at some point down the road.


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 PostPost subject: Re: [Guide] Dumping and Writing Mac floppies        Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 9:44 am 
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If you use Disk Copy on MacOS classic be sure to pack up the images with Stuffit or something to preserve the metadata. Otherwise we won't be able to open the images later.

Also, you won't destroy the floppies if you put them in a PC since a PC floppy drive doesn't do anything with them, it doesn't write to the floppies or modify them in any way.

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 PostPost subject: Re: [Guide] Dumping and Writing Mac floppies        Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 5:37 pm 
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mrpijey wrote:
If you use Disk Copy on MacOS classic be sure to pack up the images with Stuffit or something to preserve the metadata. Otherwise we won't be able to open the images later.


Yeah, resource forks are the bane of the existence of classic Macs in the modern world. Stuffit is pretty widely used, BinHex is another way of dealing with it.

I've heard that DiskDup+ can do raw image copies on the vintage hardware which should in theory make it compatible with dd which might be an advantage. This may be limited to HFS and beyond disks (800k+). This might merit some testing if I can find some time.


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 PostPost subject: Re: [Guide] Dumping and Writing Mac floppies        Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 6:41 pm 
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I doubt very much it will be compatible with dd because dd is limited to the PC controller handling of the floppy which makes it impossible to accurately read those floppies. You either need to read and write those floppies on a classic Mac, or use an external device not tethered to the PC floppy controller.

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