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 PostPost subject: EU: Microsoft pulling IE from Win 7 not enough        Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 3:47 pm 
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Microsoft's decision to pull Internet Explorer from Windows 7 in Europe isn't enough to address EU antitrust complaints about the company's abuse of the market, the European Commission said Friday. The continent's officials now say that Microsoft's proposed solution would actually hurt competition as it would leave the five percent of those buying retail copies of Windows each year with few options. Instead of having an immediate choice, buyers would have to resort to obtaining a physical copy of a web browser or else some alternative.

Source : http://www.electronista.com/articles/09/06/12/eu.say.win.7.e.not.enough/

I don’t get those guys… first they say “Windows has too much” and now that you can remove WMP, WMC and IE they say “Windows will have few options”
Are they just like paying or something? If so why they don’t go after apple?
I mean apple sells its own pcs , you can’t install the crappy OS on any pc and they add lots of extra apple crap on every mac…

And as far I knew they have been doing that since the company was created…
Maybe Microsoft should just give the EU guys some free copies of Windows 7 and Office 2010, because I think apple is giving them some free crapple pcs…

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 PostPost subject: Re: EU: Microsoft pulling IE from Win 7 not enough        Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 4:01 pm 
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Well, by removing IE how are they going to download IE or any other browser, you can't download anything without a browser. And also, I don't get how IE and WMP "hurt the market"

No one sells internet browsers or media players so no one is losing any money...


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 PostPost subject: Re: EU: Microsoft pulling IE from Win 7 not enough        Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 4:03 pm 
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This is why I hate the people at the EU who decide this crap. Windows is getting crappier and crappier because of the European Union raping Windows of all its features to, "even the market"

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 PostPost subject: Re: EU: Microsoft pulling IE from Win 7 not enough        Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 4:11 pm 
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nookupeous wrote:
Well, by removing IE how are they going to download IE or any other browser, you can't download anything without a browser. And also, I don't get how IE and WMP "hurt the market"

No one sells internet browsers or media players so no one is losing any money...


1. You can but its not user friendly to download them.
2. They hurt the market because everyone already has them and knows them without even doing anything.
3. Firefox made millions because people made searches in the search box at the top...

Too be clear I am not happy about the way this is being handled but I just wanted to correct a few things :P.


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 PostPost subject: Re: EU: Microsoft pulling IE from Win 7 not enough        Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 4:20 pm 
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This is just EU idiocracy in a nutshell to be fair. That's it. If I had the money I'd shoot the lot of them :/

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 PostPost subject: Re: EU: Microsoft pulling IE from Win 7 not enough        Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 4:26 pm 
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Well I'm sure now we've gained 2 more flipping BNP seats in europe, that we'll not be allowed to use MS products at all soon. They're american, you see.

Just to put this in perspective, this post was made in jest. I believe the EU bods are a load of pooturd.

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 PostPost subject: Re: EU: Microsoft pulling IE from Win 7 not enough        Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 5:04 pm 
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Failure. What does being American have to do with anything :S

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 PostPost subject: Re: EU: Microsoft pulling IE from Win 7 not enough        Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 5:48 pm 
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WildEye001 wrote:
Failure. What does being American have to do with anything :S

You might like to read up on the BNP. They basically, disagree with anything that isn't British.

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 PostPost subject: Re: EU: Microsoft pulling IE from Win 7 not enough        Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 6:14 pm 
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Oh. sorry. :P

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 PostPost subject: Re: EU: Microsoft pulling IE from Win 7 not enough        Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 6:19 pm 
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2020: EU makes MS product sold in the EU unlawful.

The problem: There isn't an OS sold in the mass that doesn't make use of an Unix/Linux kernel beside MS Windows. Even Mac OS X is Unix based.

The "so called" Solution: The EU then pays a company billions to develop a new OS so there would be an "European created OS" to be sold in Europe ONLY. Company is suppose to follow suit and adopt this OS in the place of Windows.

The "true" solution: EU suffers a huge deficit with more unemployment, failure in the new OS (there isn't space for competition) and people mourning at the EU.

The "final" solution: People and Company move out of the EU to find a more unrestricted market.

The outside world: Laughter of the thoughtless EU.


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 PostPost subject: Re: EU: Microsoft pulling IE from Win 7 not enough        Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 6:30 pm 
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Microsoft just need to offer an alternative, that would keep the EU happy. Why not simply have a first run wizard that at least gives the user the option to say install Opera instead of IE or Winamp instead of WMP, it would not be that difficult and it would shoot the EU's anti trust down in flames. And lets not forget, the EU didn't just decide to pick on Microsoft, they only took action because Novell and then Sun filed complaints (and of course Google and Mozilla jumped on the bandwagon) so if you want to blame someone, blame them, not the EU courts who are actually doing their job.

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Last edited by OG on Mon Jun 15, 2009 6:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 PostPost subject: Re: EU: Microsoft pulling IE from Win 7 not enough        Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 6:32 pm 
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Way to fail EU

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 PostPost subject: Re: EU: Microsoft pulling IE from Win 7 not enough        Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 7:02 pm 
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What do they expect people to do use wget to download their favorite browser; and honestly a large mass of the people wouldn't give a [censored] about what browser they're using and download IE anyway if they had the choice to choose which one they wanted at the end of the setup.


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 PostPost subject: Re: EU: Microsoft pulling IE from Win 7 not enough        Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 7:32 pm 
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It seems the antitrust problem is caused by the lack of web browsers that ship CDs. At this point it is an issue of the current market; this is not valid for antitrust regulations because those regulations should not create the products but rather the opportunities. It seems the EU is just greedy.

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 PostPost subject: Re: EU: Microsoft pulling IE from Win 7 not enough        Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 7:41 pm 
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The expect you somehow find a browser while it doesn't exist in Windows. Perhaps download firefox on another computer and transfer it to the new computer with a usb drive or a memory stick.
If you want to watch you movie clip that you recorded on your camera on that computer, you would have to somehow get a browser then download a player.
If you want to check your email right away, you'll have to get a browser and get some sort of email program.
If you want to install a driver, and windows update fails, ummm get a browser first.

What if you moved and it's your first computer in the new home? You're just screwed, thanks to the EU. Unless the computer shops also give away a free browser cd. If so, why not just have it in Windows.

Apple has safari, along with a bunch of stuff. You don't see EU after them.

MS might as well create a version of Windows that includes nothing then the core. Like the server core edition without the server stuff. You might as well find yourself the gui if you want one.

There are some EU lovers on the forum who argue that MS lovers are wrong and MS broke the law. Maybe they do deserve to pay more than Americans and get less. They might as well use a mac. I don't see the whole EU using mac or linux. DO the EU government us linux instead?

The final word: EU hates MS.


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 PostPost subject: Re: EU: Microsoft pulling IE from Win 7 not enough        Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 7:55 pm 
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XDude wrote:
The expect you somehow find a browser while it doesn't exist in Windows. Perhaps download firefox on another computer and transfer it to the new computer with a usb drive or a memory stick.
If you want to watch you movie clip that you recorded on your camera on that computer, you would have to somehow get a browser then download a player.
If you want to check your email right away, you'll have to get a browser and get some sort of email program.
If you want to install a driver, and windows update fails, ummm get a browser first.

What if you moved and it's your first computer in the new home? You're just screwed, thanks to the EU. Unless the computer shops also give away a free browser cd. If so, why not just have it in Windows.

Apple has safari, along with a bunch of stuff. You don't see EU after them.

MS might as well create a version of Windows that includes nothing then the core. Like the server core edition without the server stuff. You might as well find yourself the gui if you want one.

There are some EU lovers on the forum who argue that MS lovers are wrong and MS broke the law. Maybe they do deserve to pay more than Americans and get less. They might as well use a mac. I don't see the whole EU using mac or linux. DO the EU government us linux instead?

The final word: EU hates MS.


I don't see any Windows XP/Vista, ''N'' versions here in the store, only the ''full'' ones WITH the browser and other stuff.

But I hate the goverment of the netherlands (well not if you work for them) they pay YOU to use linux in city hall and so on.
I am an Windows Administrator, not a linux fanboy and I do not want to be one.

If Windows is not sold anymore and Microsoft does not make an OS anymore and you have to use Mac or Linux I will still use my trusty Windows box.

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 PostPost subject: Re: EU: Microsoft pulling IE from Win 7 not enough        Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 8:01 pm 
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I bet, that USA started this. I believe the whole "Microsoft is being evil" thing started in 1998, when the US Department of Justice sued Microsoft for being the same way as the EU says.

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 PostPost subject: Re: EU: Microsoft pulling IE from Win 7 not enough        Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 10:19 pm 
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I really wonder why not to cut off Safari too.


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 PostPost subject: Re: EU: Microsoft pulling IE from Win 7 not enough        Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 12:38 am 
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How the heck do I install a browser.. :|

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 PostPost subject: Re: EU: Microsoft pulling IE from Win 7 not enough        Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 12:43 am 
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I don't know how the EU antitrust laws work, and don't claim to know, but what I don't get is why they target Microsoft. Apple is a million times worse for "anti-trust", if it means selling your OS to consumers with your software and not giving them immediate access to the competition. Apple does this for everything, Safari, iTunes, Quick Time, everything! And Apple is even worse on the fact that you can only legally run their software on Apple branded hardware. The anti-trust case against Microsoft, in my opinion, is a load of garbage to try make consumers resent and boycott Microsoft products (which will never happen, boycott, I mean, resent, maybe, but boycott, no).

And heck, besides about 40% of computer users (browser stats are horribly inaccurate), people don't even know there are options besides the big blue "E" that's been removed from their desktops since XP SP3 (and later). The whole idea that Microsoft will have to remove their browser will only confuse and infuriate computer-illiterate users and aggravate the rest. And even if Microsoft gave users a choice, how many of them would end up picking IE anyways? Probably more than a few.

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 PostPost subject: Re: EU: Microsoft pulling IE from Win 7 not enough        Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 2:10 am 
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Just use Microsoft's FTP that's included in Windows even if there is no browser. Here's a tutorial

viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2256

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 PostPost subject: Re: EU: Microsoft pulling IE from Win 7 not enough        Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 2:21 am 
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The EU has investigated Apple for antitrust when itunes basically had a monopoly on digital music sales, so this is not an "EU hates MS" thing, this is a "MS broke the law and the EU is penalizing them for it" thing. Perhaps if OSX had higher market penetration the EU would be going after them too. Maybe Microsoft should file a complaint against Apple huh? What people seem to be ignorant of is the fact that MS are also in violation of US antitrust laws. The real difference here is that the European legal system is not so biased towards MS and if the US legal system had any balls they'd be doing exactly the same thing. When you whine about EU all you are really doing is saying that you wished they were as incompetent as the American courts, who if had done their job years ago would have meant the EU had nothing to go after MS for.

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 PostPost subject: Re: EU: Microsoft pulling IE from Win 7 not enough        Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 6:38 am 
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WildEye001 wrote:
I believe the whole "Microsoft is being evil" thing started in 1998, when the US Department of Justice sued Microsoft for being the same way as the EU says.

While these EU claims are bogus, in 1998 Microsoft was doing quite a lot of evil - that had little to do with web browsers. At that time Microsoft had destroyed its competition by using drastically low and exclusive OEM prices to prevent other operating systems from being mass marketed. See the fun Be had in trying to get its product out.

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 PostPost subject: Re: EU: Microsoft pulling IE from Win 7 not enough        Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 7:27 am 
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Frozenport wrote:
WildEye001 wrote:
I believe the whole "Microsoft is being evil" thing started in 1998, when the US Department of Justice sued Microsoft for being the same way as the EU says.

While these EU claims are bogus, in 1998 Microsoft was doing quite a lot of evil - that had little to do with web browsers. At that time Microsoft had destroyed its competition by using drastically low and exclusive OEM prices to prevent other operating systems from being mass marketed. See the fun Be had in trying to get its product out.

I see it as a marketing strategy. Make everyone attached to Windows so they won't brother to use something else. Chances said that if you started with Windows, you would likely stick with Windows. This brings in major profit. The only expense is the money paid in lawsuits. The net income is still high in the positive. MS wins, who cares what the US court or the EU does, MS won already. Too bad if you want to compete against MS, you will suffer. My professor had once said, "How far do you get if you were to create a new Office to compete against MS Office? Answer: No where." No one on this planet is going to train you to use a new Office suite, nor a new OS.

So the EU suing MS isn't going to stop MS. The world had already fallen deeply into the hands of MS. As long as MS continues to sell their products, the EU could go on and sue and sue and sue, but you the majority of the citizen will continue to use MS products.

Linux is just too hard to troubleshoot for the majority. Most games and applications are not available. The use of Crossover Office is just an emulation, not a long term solution. So if you switch to linux, you're just screwing your business. Linux and unix is only good for servers where server managers have the proper experience. Atleast MS doesn't limit the use of .doc formats making openoffice possible.

The bottom line, MS is smarter than their competitor. They take the risk, won, took more risk and won. They seized the opportunity and gain a leap over others. No one fights a war fairly. The US used strategy and tricks to win wars. MS does too. EU is just whining, they indeed going no where. Sorry for EU supporters, I'm not in the EU nor the US.


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 PostPost subject: Re: EU: Microsoft pulling IE from Win 7 not enough        Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 1:47 am 
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I think microsoft should just pull out of the EU. They're a pretty small market segment. Let's see what happens when instantly no computers can be made or sold with Windows in all of europe, microsoft support cuts off, and the entire EU is blocked from microsoft and MSN websites. There go all your windows updates, your support articles, hotmail/msn/windows live accounts, everything. Better yet, they have been tracking people to find out whose accounts are in the EU and they'll delete them.

I project the entire region having major problems.


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