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 PostPost subject: Windows 7 – No Interim Builds? Why?        Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 9:00 pm 
The reason why there are no interim builds with Windows 7:
http://www.geeksmack.net/microsoft/134- ... s-why.html

Very nice article. But I really prefer more builds than just 2 in order to get rid of more bugs. :P


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 PostPost subject: Re: Windows 7 – No Interim Builds? Why?        Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 9:19 pm 
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If you ask me, being stuck using the same beta build for 4 months (if the RC really is in April) is unacceptable, especially for those of us in the Connect program who can't use leaked builds and are expected to use the official build all the time.

One Interim bisecting the 4 month gap would make that use much more reasonable, and safer than using 4 month old beta code.

I know that they say building interim builds for us takes lots of time and effort, but one interim couldn't hurt them, and would keep us safer. To paraphrase what someone said in the newsgroup: Even office 2007 had more than one beta.


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 PostPost subject: Re: Windows 7 – No Interim Builds? Why?        Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 9:39 pm 
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Quote:
especially for those of us in the Connect program who can't use leaked builds


Why can't you?

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 PostPost subject: Re: Windows 7 – No Interim Builds? Why?        Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 9:39 pm 
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If Microsoft found out he was using a leaked build, he could be removed from the Windows 7 Beta program.


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 PostPost subject: Re: Windows 7 – No Interim Builds? Why?        Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 9:55 pm 
There are many bugs in the Beta Build we got about 7 weeks ago that they really should release another beta drop before RC.
The Beta code is now almost 2,5 months old.

Another point is, when some bugs are still in the RC should be hope that MS will fix them all before RTM?

I'm sure, another third test build released before RC can increase the stability and usability enormous.


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 PostPost subject: Re: Windows 7 – No Interim Builds? Why?        Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 9:58 pm 
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J.Byrne wrote:
If Microsoft found out he was using a leaked build, he could be removed from the Windows 7 Beta program.


Bingo, and for all its problems, I like being in the Connect Beta and giving the Feedback and getting the technical Information that goes with it.


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 PostPost subject: Re: Windows 7 – No Interim Builds? Why?        Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 10:08 pm 
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I believe the CTP program the author talks about was a major achievement for Vista. It was effective because gave a chance to test lots of new features just after they were integrated into winmain. And everyone, including Jim Allchin, told that CTP program was a success. But it depends on scale of the release. Windows 7 is not Vista, Beta is already feature-completed build (as you remember Vista Beta wasn't, build 5308 was the first feature-completed build), so there are no features to be tested to release interim builds so frequently (look at 7022 for example, any CTP build of Vista had incommensurably more new features and changes). But there are bugs, incompatibility and other issues to fix, but Microsoft (and I agree with them) think that testers don't need new build so far to find bugs and give useful feedback. At this stage they debug and fix issues testers had found. So probably it's not a question of efforts nedeed to release interim builds, but uselessness of the efforts, taking into account the scale of Windows 7 release.

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 PostPost subject: Re: Windows 7 – No Interim Builds? Why?        Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 10:30 pm 
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Using Windows 7 x64 and the JDK won't install.

I'm trying to write programs for Windows 7 but its impossible with the current release. If they had a CTP they maybe able to restore compatibility.

YET,
They don't and the beta build is worthless.

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 PostPost subject: Re: Windows 7 – No Interim Builds? Why?        Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 3:50 am 
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Frozenport wrote:
Using Windows 7 x64 and the JDK won't install.

I'm trying to write programs for Windows 7 but its impossible with the current release. If they had a CTP they maybe able to restore compatibility.

YET,
They don't and the beta build is worthless.



Same here using Win7 7000 x64 but my WU is broken!
Even if I bug it, it should be fixed by RC, I would hope, so why bother, it is a Oooold build anyway.


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 PostPost subject: Re: Windows 7 – No Interim Builds? Why?        Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 4:16 am 
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J.Byrne wrote:
If Microsoft found out he was using a leaked build, he could be removed from the Windows 7 Beta program.


Yet I remember in the Vista Beta Program, there were tons of feedback form build 5840, a leaked build. I actually wonder do they kick people out for doing so.

Also, MS spent alot of time preparing builds for vista. After the recompiles, the builds given out aren't the same code that were going to be winmain branch and eventually in RTM.

But, MS gave a bunch of whistler builds out, the beginning ones were idx. Later in the stage, main builds also surfaced being MS gave out builds directly from the main branch. It could be understood why MS didn't do this for Vista, because Vista was being rushed out, the winmain builds aren't that stable. (A recent leak of vista 5754 is an example)

I don't see why they can't do this with Windows 7. If they cannot release an interim build after RC, there is something really wrong with the OS and it shouldn't be released. Of course, MS doesn't like to release builds like that today.


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 PostPost subject: Re: Windows 7 – No Interim Builds? Why?        Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 5:44 am 
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The Beta was sent out in good faith, by Microsoft, to gain as much across the board feedback as possible, bearing in mind the huge amont of software being deployed by worldwide users.
They have received a mass of the hoped for feedback.
That was the only purpose of the public release.
There is no reason to expect that you will, in turn, be given feedback in any form, to advise if the problem has been fixed.The bugs are not, at this stage, infinite. There is, remember, a very large selected group of Tech Beta testers, (5000 I believe)who are still providing any feedback on bugs found in subsequent builds.
I think you can assume, within the limits, that if the bug sent in by yourself, and probably hundreds of others, is found to be genuine and not too computer specific, then it will be fixed by the time of the RTM. In the latter case, it would probably be passed on to the particular hardware producer for examination.

It was generous of MS to allow such a wide distribution of a package which basically ran very well. But why pick on Microsoft again? It is not unusual for major updates, for quite large programs, to be thrown at the public, without them being in the test program.I have not for example, personey been consulted on the latest Mac Os or nero software etc
Why can you not write programs for 7? It is essentially unchanged from Vista. The various paths, etc, are not likely to change either. What kind of programs are you referring to? Without the source, which the major partners already have, you are limited to add-ons, of which there are already too many.I have found that, with some insignificant exceptions, everything I used in Vista runs as well in 7.


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 PostPost subject: Re: Windows 7 – No Interim Builds? Why?        Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 6:45 am 
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Part of what I am currently doing involves writting a program - but not just your average .exe - a program that will control certain machines (via serial port)...
Upon reccomendation of my mentor, this program should be compatible with Windows 7... 8-)


davehc wrote:
I have not for example, personey been consulted on the latest Mac Os or nero software etc

This is among the reasons why I don't use Apple's OS. And the alternative to Windows, Linux, *is* open to consultation.

What I want from MS is for them to fix the problems with their OS on a rolling basis - especially if their build has a significant amount of critical problems.

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 PostPost subject: Re: Windows 7 – No Interim Builds? Why?        Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 7:11 am 
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"What I want from MS is for them to fix the problems with their OS on a rolling basis - especially if their build has a significant amount of critical problems"

That is exactly what they are doing. But you should bear in mind the immense coverage the public release had. I am sure that there has to be many thousands of duplicated bug reports, some not valid, which have to be whittled down to the single bug. I would imagine that this "whittling" process reduces the feedback by about 90%. It would be unreasonable to expect MS to post out builds to the public, for every bug that has been attended to. It would only complicate the issue, with, again, a lot of not needed duplication.
If not already, why don't you join the Technet forums, where feedback exchange is live and responded to, in most cases, by Microsoft personnel.


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 PostPost subject: Re: Windows 7 – No Interim Builds? Why?        Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 3:05 pm 
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davehc wrote:
<snip> There is, remember, a very large selected group of Tech Beta testers, (5000 I believe)who are still providing any feedback on bugs found in subsequent builds.
<snip>


The problem is that we haven't received any subsequent builds, the only people getting those builds are those in the TAP program, which is Tiny, and composed of a few select people from huge corporations that are MS partners (in other words, concerned with things other than beta testing and finding bugs in MS software)


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