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 PostPost subject: Microsoft is accused by EU again.        Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 6:19 am 
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The European Commission has accused Microsoft of harming competition by bundling its Explorer web browser with its Windows operating system.

The commission said it had reached the preliminary view that the US software giant had undermined consumer choice and infringed EU rules.

Microsoft and the European Union have engaged in legal battles over competition issues for years.

Last year, the EU fined Microsoft 899m euros ($1.4bn; £680.9m).

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7834792.stm

Seriously, how is the common user supposed to download another browser then?


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 PostPost subject: Re: Microsoft is accused by EU again.        Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 6:32 am 
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Windows OCManage wrote:
Seriously, how is the common user supposed to download another browser then?

Perhaps a .cmd or .bat file can be made which provides you three choices to allow you to download another browser without IE but that's never going to happen

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 PostPost subject: Re: Microsoft is accused by EU again.        Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 7:36 am 
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Windows OCManage wrote:
Seriously, how is the common user supposed to download another browser then?


2 options:

1. Download using the FTP server
2. Buy a copy of Firefox in a computerstore.


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 PostPost subject: Re: Microsoft is accused by EU again.        Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 8:00 am 
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dexter152 wrote:
2. Buy a copy of Firefox in a computerstore.

Firefox is free, and I never seen a web browser available in a electronics store...

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 PostPost subject: Re: Microsoft is accused by EU again.        Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 8:51 am 
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i thought this was already happened and microsoft said they couldn't remove it as it was built into too much of windows to be removed. Also i think it would hurt microsoft more if they removed it, they would get so many complaints. Doesn't Apple bundle a whole lot of software with their OS?


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 PostPost subject: Re: Microsoft is accused by EU again.        Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 10:33 am 
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___ wrote:
i thought this was already happened and microsoft said they couldn't remove it as it was built into too much of windows to be removed


That used to be the case, back in 1998 (although, I think someone did figure out how to remove IE from Windows 98). IE7 in Vista is no longer integrated into Explorer, like it used to be.

Quote:
Also i think it would hurt microsoft more if they removed it, they would get so many complaints.


I agree.

MS could include various browsers on the setup CD that the user can select, but I don't think MS should be forced to put competitor's products on their OS.

Quote:
Doesn't Apple bundle a whole lot of software with their OS?


It's a bit different with Apple though. Apple doesn't sell their OS to other computer manufacturers.

With computer manufacturers, they may broker deals with software manufacturers to include programs on their OS (we know it as bloatware). For instance, lets say HP liked a media player and they wanted to include it on their OS. So, they would broker a deal with the company that would generally allow them to preload it on their OS at a lower price then if you or I bought it separately. It helps the software company and the computer company, by making it more lucrative to consumers. However, you have MS who adds Media Player to their OS, and it's included at no extra cost, which is great for the computer company and it really doesn't affect the end user, but the software company that made the other media player is affected, because now HP doesn't have a reason to make a deal with them, since a "free" media player is included that provides the same functionality.

With Apple, they make the OS and hardware, so they can technically just say that they're making a "deal" with themselves, ergo, they're not violating any anti-competitive laws.

I think the EU is definitely over reaching (again). This crap has to stop. Pretty soon the built in CD burning is anti-competitive with companies like Nero or anyone else who make CD burning software. We'll be left with an OS that does nothing and can do nothing.


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 PostPost subject: Re: Microsoft is accused by EU again.        Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 10:54 am 
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dexter152 wrote:
1. Download using the FTP server


The problem with that is Explorer's FTP support is provided by IE. That'd mean you'd have to resort to the command line and use the ftp command. Not really what you'd want.

Still. MS might just end up adjusting the N version to not include IE either to satisfy the EU, and proceed to sell it to absolutely no-one.

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 PostPost subject: Re: Microsoft is accused by EU again.        Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 1:34 pm 
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IMHO, it would be good if IE was included in the OS but:
1) Not integrated with Windows shell, explorer would be independent from IE
2) As an optional component (propalby a pop-up during setup: what components would you like to install? and there you could check/uncheck stuff like IE, WMP, WMM, etc.)
3) You could always uninstall it

Just my vision :P


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 PostPost subject: Re: Microsoft is accused by EU again.        Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 10:59 pm 
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Ambig wrote:
......I think the EU is definitely over reaching (again). This crap has to stop. Pretty soon the built in CD burning is anti-competitive with companies like Nero or anyone else who make CD burning software. We'll be left with an OS that does nothing and can do nothing.

don't forget notepad!


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 PostPost subject: Re: Microsoft is accused by EU again.        Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:24 pm 
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They should just pull out of the EU.

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 PostPost subject: Re: Microsoft is accused by EU again.        Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 6:09 am 
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Bender wrote:
They should just pull out of the EU.

LOL


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Mircosoft needs to rebrand themselves as a "computering suite"

The EU claims Microsoft is selling an Operating System (Thing that handels interupts) but are using these packaged extras to other non-os related ends. For example - using an IE to dominate the internet by selling an operating system.

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 PostPost subject: Re: Microsoft is accused by EU again.        Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 12:40 pm 
Seriously, I don't get why Microsoft gets sued by the EU and Apple gets away with 10x worse activities...


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 PostPost subject: Re: Microsoft is accused by EU again.        Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 4:35 pm 
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Microsoft could always say on installation "Would you like to install Internet Explorer?" then have a pop up message saying Internet Explorer is needed for many Microsoft features and that you can just add a different browser later.

Either way the customer would either do what there already doing (remove ie or just live with a bit less disk space)


At least that would be the smart way to go on it.


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 PostPost subject: Re: Microsoft is accused by EU again.        Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 1:16 pm 
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I guess Linux gets away with what the distroes do because (in most) you can select/deselect anything you want/don't want, while in Windows, ever since XP you are stuck with what is on the cd/dvd (unless you "hack" stuff with XPLite, for example, which is _not_ allowed according to the eula). Hence, you can't deselect IE, WMP, notepad (!) even if you wanted to.

Not legally, anyways.

I liked it better up untill and including Win2000, where you had the box with "select features to be installed" and I guess EU wants that feature back. Something I personally approve of, to be honest.


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 PostPost subject: Re: Microsoft is accused by EU again.        Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 6:44 am 
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It's only being accused by the EU because Opera complained. Silly, Silly, Opera.

Talking to Mary-Jo Foley, Opera's CTO says,

Quote:
There are many options. Like you suggest, it would be easy to add browsers to the Windows distribution and let the user make the choice. It should also be possible to configure Windows Update so that subscribers are asked which browser they prefer to install — IE8, Opera, or Firefox, perhaps?


What does this mean? Microsoft should now bundle other browsers into the OS? Following his logic, we should bundle iTunes, VLC, Winamp, and Media Player Classic with Windows Media Player since it would "level the playing field"? Or how about bundling Yahoo widgets with Windows Sidebar? This CTO is talking like an idiot. It's not necessarily an indict of the browser itself (Because it's a good browser), but the kind of whining laziness about "competition" as trying to reach out to a broader audience that makes me shake my head and makes Ayn Rand cry (If she could express emotion)


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 PostPost subject: Re: Microsoft is accused by EU again.        Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 8:23 am 
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Ambig wrote:

It's a bit different with Apple though. Apple doesn't sell their OS to other computer manufacturers.


I see no real difference between the great majority who buy their pc ready built and pre-loaded with Windows and those who buy a Mac which is pre-built and pre-loaded with OSX. Microsoft may have deals with OEM's, but the consumer who buys a PC does not NEED to buy one with Windows. A Mac on the otherhand must be bought with OSX. If anything, and by the exact same logic, Apple are also guilty of the same uncompetetiveness that MS are being blamed for becuase they too do not offer any alternative browser (or mail client, or media player) during the installation process. The only way for this to be fair in any way would be for everyone to offer at least 1 alternative, whether its whatever flavour of Linux pre-loaded with Firefox, OSX pre-loaded with Safari or Windows pre-loaded with IE, its all the same. If one must be forced then so should they all.

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 PostPost subject: Re: Microsoft is accused by EU again.        Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 8:04 pm 
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I agree with zamadatix. It would be nice if during installation setup asks weather we want to install program such as Internet Explorer, Media Player, Mail, burning CDs etc. Like it was in 3.x era. Then no one can say: Microsoft is taking monopoly. At the end of installation, Windows will ask for programs that are registered with Windows (for example from Microsoft website) which user want, and download it for you.

I will use Microsoft products anyway. 8)


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