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 PostPost subject: Become windows 7 the same as vista, with only another look?        Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 10:33 am 
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It is about a microsoft person who tells in a certain way that windows 7 will be - a kind of - copy of windows vista, only with another look and some new programs. So for everyone who thought the vista mistakes (in drivers) and the slowness and problems will be not in windows 7, has it wrong.

&

The first windows 7 beta (no milestone anymore) will release very fast!

full story:

InfoWorld is reporting that Microsoft sent out an edict that all ordered computer and other hardware makers to begin testing their devices on the forthcoming Windows 7 OS as soon as the first beta version becomes available. Those don’t comply with the edict won’t qualify for Microsoft’s Windows Logo certified compatibility program.

Well…. I wonder if it has anything to do with the Vista Capable lawsuit? Or perhaps Vista sucks so much that Microsoft is going with plan “B” which would be Windows 7 (which means it might be coming “real soon now”)? Perhaps both.

Before you get excited about Windows 7, a recent CNet interview with the guy who heads Windows development indicates that Windows 7 is likely to be an evolution of Windows Vista:

“We’re very clear that drivers and software that work on Windows Vista are going to work really well on Windows 7; in fact, they’ll work the same. We’re going to not introduce additional compatibilities, particularly in the driver model. Windows Vista was about improving those things. We are going to build on the success and the strength of the Windows Server 2008 kernel, and that has all of this work that you’ve been talking about. The key there is that the kernel in Windows Server 08 is an evolution of the kernel in Windows Vista, and then Windows 7 will be a further evolution of that kernel as well.”

Wait a second! Read this part again:

“We’re very clear that drivers and software that work on Windows Vista are going to work really well on Windows 7; in fact, they’ll work the same.”

How in the world is that possible? Doesn’t that statement contradict itself? What I think they’re trying to say is that the drivers and software that run on vista are going to run on Windows 7, only everything will actually work. Clearly, all they’re going to do is fix and re-brand Vista, change some eye candy (Aero II perhaps?), and pray it sells this time around. They’d come out with it now, but they need to wait long enough that people will believe it’s a new OS rather than a refreshed OS that may actually work. Plus if they did it now, they’d all but admit that Vista was half baked from day one.


(http://www.windows7.cc/windows7-news/mi ... windows-7/)

What do you think about this all?

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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 11:48 am 
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No. I'd say most drivers for today's hardware work fine on Windows Vista (ignoring Nvidia's drivers as it's thier problem, not Microsoft's), and Windows 7 was always going to be focused on a new User Interface rather than a new backend.

The Vista capable lawsuit was about computers being marketted as Vista-compatible, but not being able to run Vista with Aero properly; nothing about driver issues.

Quote:
the vista mistakes (in drivers) and the slowness and problems will be not in windows 7
Quote:
perhaps Vista sucks so much that Microsoft is going with plan “B” which would be Windows 7

These all seem like flaming. If you're going to pretend to journal, don't make your bias so painstakingly obvious.

You also misquoted the site on
Quote:
“We’re very clear that drivers and software that work on Windows Vista are going to work really well on Windows 7; in fact, they’ll work the same.”
Quote:
Doesn’t that statement contradict itself?
- It is obvious he is explaining that drivers that work well on Vista will also work well on Windows 7, and apart from a few companies producing inferior drivers there have been few real driver issues; I'd say that most drivers now work excellent on Windows Vista (If they were designed for the OS of course).

Quote:
They’d come out with it now, but they need to wait long enough that people will believe it’s a new OS rather than a refreshed OS that may actually work.
Is that an attempt at immitating Andytek or Dudex? Windows Vista works fine now, and a new user interface constitutes a new Operating System (for me atleast).

As for your claim that Windows 7 is ready for release right now, except Microsoft are holding off so people buy Vista? There were the same conspiracy theories about Longhorn, nothing new here either.

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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 12:33 pm 
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ChasingVertigo wrote:
No. I'd say most drivers for today's hardware work fine on Windows Vista (ignoring Nvidia's drivers as it's thier problem, not Microsoft's), and Windows 7 was always going to be focused on a new User Interface rather than a new backend.

The Vista capable lawsuit was about computers being marketted as Vista-compatible, but not being able to run Vista with Aero properly; nothing about driver issues.

Quote:
the vista mistakes (in drivers) and the slowness and problems will be not in windows 7
Quote:
perhaps Vista sucks so much that Microsoft is going with plan “B” which would be Windows 7

These all seem like flaming. If you're going to pretend to journal, don't make your bias so painstakingly obvious.

You also misquoted the site on
Quote:
“We’re very clear that drivers and software that work on Windows Vista are going to work really well on Windows 7; in fact, they’ll work the same.”
Quote:
Doesn’t that statement contradict itself?
- It is obvious he is explaining that drivers that work well on Vista will also work well on Windows 7, and apart from a few companies producing inferior drivers there have been few real driver issues; I'd say that most drivers now work excellent on Windows Vista (If they were designed for the OS of course).

Quote:
They’d come out with it now, but they need to wait long enough that people will believe it’s a new OS rather than a refreshed OS that may actually work.
Is that an attempt at immitating Andytek or Dudex? Windows Vista works fine now, and a new user interface constitutes a new Operating System (for me atleast).

As for your claim that Windows 7 is ready for release right now, except Microsoft are holding off so people buy Vista? There were the same conspiracy theories about Longhorn, nothing new here either.


Not for release, i'm sorry. For that they give out their first beta.

I look at this story from the bad side of windows vista. Of course, it has also good sides.

I didn't write the story, only the piece above. The rest is from the site i linked under it.

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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 7:08 pm 
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This is so ridiculous and biased that I don't think I can even... You can't just read an article and hate Vista and decide that Windows 7 is going to be crap. Explain to me what problems you've personally had with Windows Vista? Okay, now explain to me that you have tested Windows XP and Windows Vista on the same machine with the same applications... Now show me that you actually know that Windows 7 is going to be crap. How do you know what they are changing and what is staying the same? Just because Vista drivers are going to work on Windows 7 doesn't mean that it's going to have the same problems. There are plenty of drivers you can download that were only meant for one release of Windows but work on multiple versions...

This is just more of that stupid negative press crap still floating around from Vista. Someone has to hate Microsoft and their software without reason or good explanation...

Sorry if that was a little personal, I used to work in a computer shop. My boss told every customer that Vista was horrible and that they would have endless problems with everything they tried to do if they used it. He himself had never used it.


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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 7:42 pm 
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Unfortunately, it's a common thing.

That's what Microsoft is trying to stop with Mojave.

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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 7:27 am 
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QuiescentWonder wrote:
My boss told every customer that Vista was horrible and that they would have endless problems with everything they tried to do if they used it. He himself had never used it.


Vistas image is just spoiled, it was right from the start and all management errors

- first : it was rushed out the door way too early - was by no way release quality.

- second : it was all about "Hype" about features that are not worth an upgrade from a customers view - missing features like winfs, revolutionary interface ( think of LH builds ) etc.


- third: totally underestimated hardware requirements :

you cannot produce an OS that demands 2GB of Ram to run properly and sell machines preloaded with that OS but only equipped with 512MB of Ram ( I have seen a lot of cheaper Laptops, including acer and fujitsu siemens configured that way ) and a shared-ram intel gma gpu ( Vista install on such devices, even if the system memory is cut down effectively to 384MB for the OS .. ) .

Think of someone who just reads on the vista box : 800MhZ,512MB Ram.. - Guy takes it home to install on lets say a 6 year old Pentium machine with the bare minimum of Ram.. how will he report his friends of the upgrade he just did ?

MS fault here, would the Box clearly say 2GhZ and 1GB Ram..

-fourth : The next drama was Aero and that it would not run on hardware that worked in the Beta phase but not in rtm. ( intel GMA .. ) The Drama of those different Editions, including the nonsene to cut out Aero from Basic or no Bitlocker and Multilanguage in Business Edition.

so, add the press-reviews, what friends tell a friend who tells a friend.. reading news that big OEMs preload XP instead of vista, and there you have your "bad reputation", and it don't stop - the newest drama is that people demand nettops,eee-pcs and such devices which simply cannot even install vista due to the hardware demands - now how reliable you think of the producer of the OS, that he recommends XP over the "new OS" to run on such devices ?

Vista was designed for PCs that next to nobody had at home at the launch time, and that was error.

Why do you think XP is such a star ? It installs on virtually every PC, how old or new it may be.

This is what MS needs to adress in "7" - a much much leaner base, and scalabilty - from lowend to high-end.

To come back to the topic :

Yes, I think "7" will be a thoroughly tested and tweaked to the core vista Second Edition, enhanced with Touch-functions and a new setup which includes "optional components" , think of Windows Server 2008, a proof that modular setup is possible.

I don't expect a new UI, only a tweaked vista interface, maybe some themes, maybe like xp - one silver, one black, but nothing special - MS cannot put out yet another new UI, when people are already now complaining that Vista is a challenge for XP users to re-learn ..

Its a tragedy that MS cannot adress only us OS-Lovers and geeks, they must think of those which are just happy to get their mouse-clicks done without misinterpreting the left with the right button, that is a "typical user" to MS.


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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 9:07 am 
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There haven't been that many different GUIs anyway. Starting from Windows 95 through 2000 everything looked the same if you don't count font and slight color differences. XP changed that to the toony Luna. Now Vista has changed that again with Aero. I doubt they'll change deviate much from Aero either.

Every game and operating system you buy has minimum system requirements that are way below what anyone would actually want to run them at. That's not an issue specific to Vista, If you took XP and ran it on the minimum required hardware you would be miserable.


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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 6:05 pm 
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The interview mentioned was quite long. It was easy for any passionate journalist to remove a section he felt could be criticised, and do so out of context. You can read the original interview here and judge for yourself:
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13860_3-9951638-56.html

"InfoWorld is reporting that Microsoft sent out an edict that all ordered computer and other hardware makers to begin testing their devices on the forthcoming Windows 7 OS as soon as the first beta version becomes available. Those don’t comply with the edict won’t qualify for Microsoft’s Windows Logo certified compatibility program. "---Not the "full story" as stated, be any means.
Further reading, with a link to the original Microsoft edict, here:
http://www.informationweek.com/news/win ... ed_IWK_All

"The first windows 7 beta (no milestone anymore) will release very fast! " -- Sound sensational but what was actually said is more realistic. The Beta is on a normal schedule, as like Os's before it:
quote "Microsoft has not publicly disclosed when it expects to release a beta version of Windows 7. Given the company's customary timetables, however, it's likely the company will deliver the first Windows 7 beta sometime over the next couple of months. Microsoft has said it hopes to ship a final version of Windows 7 in late 2009 or early 2010. "

There is another recent thread on this site, discussing the perils of gossip surrounding leaks and the dangers thereof on the reputation of the final product. The OP fits firmly into this category!


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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 8:06 am 
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"The first windows 7 beta (no milestone anymore) will release very fast! " -- Sound sensational but what was actually said is more realistic."

even more proof that it will be only Vista Second Edition instead of something "brandnew" . :?


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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 10:17 am 
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"even more proof that it will be only Vista Second Edition instead of something "brandnew" . :?"[/quote]
And exactly why would you conclude that? It is on a very normal schedule for a new OS.
I just am not connecting here. Is the totally uninformed public already trying to pull down "7" (as they did Vista) before any new codinge has even been written for it?
The only "leaked" release so far has been an unadulterated presentation of Vista, ready for the hundreds of MS programmers around the world to begin making suggestions and additions.


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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 11:35 am 
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davehc wrote:
"even more proof that it will be only Vista Second Edition instead of something "brandnew" . :?"

And exactly why would you conclude that? It is on a very normal schedule for a new OS.
I just am not connecting here. Is the totally uninformed public already trying to pull down "7" (as they did Vista) before any new codinge has even been written for it?
The only "leaked" release so far has been an unadulterated presentation of Vista, ready for the hundreds of MS programmers around the world to begin making suggestions and additions.[/quote]
Indeed. A 3 year cycle is still pretty slow for an OS. Vista's 5 year cycle was abnormally long, and almost entirely down to the fact that MS went through two projects. 'Vista's' real life cycle was closer to two years (ignoring the Longhorn project). And 6519 is little indication of what 7 what will end up as. At best, it gives a subtle hint at where they are taking the UX (such as revised explorer,bundled apps, etc) and almost nothing else.

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