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 PostPost subject: Re: Unreal 1 Development History        Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:31 pm 
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"a Magic Carpet-like environment where you fly through caverns with robots",

Sounds UNREAL :D


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 PostPost subject: Re: Unreal 1 Development History        Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2013 10:17 am 
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Yeah, I remember the first time that I had ever heard of Unreal. I was literally stunned. Quake was not out yet and the screens showed the contrast between them. Both were stunning but just different. Unreal was very colorful and vivid and Quake was very dark and haunting.

The screenshots that I saw are nowhere to be found now. One of the shots showed a small open area with a chest and bars of gold. All these years and I've never even seen it anywhere.

I'm not sure if you guys have seen this screenshot, but at one time Unreal had a terrain rendering mechanism in place. Judging by the sky, this was probably in 1997.

Image

By the way, and while I'm here, I believe this is an early revision of Bluff Eversmoking.

Image


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 PostPost subject: Re: Unreal 1 Development History        Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 12:29 am 
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The terrain was like late 1996/early 1997, Tim experimented with many terrain methods at the time, however also the DMA guys were supposed to have own terrain system as well. They probably ditched this warfare like terrain system for Unreal early on. Also notice the collision off/on icon, the collision off/on in editor mode is present even in the 95 version if you hit c in the editor mode. That allows for camera to have collision on and one can test for unusual clipping right away. As for the screen with gold, I do have the screenshot but it's very [censored] up, however there is also this same screenshot in a magazine scan PC Games, not the german magazine but the Canadian one, which used this as well, it even shows a screenshot of a mine area with quadshot during the reloading animation. Which is not seen on any other screenshots.


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 PostPost subject: Re: Unreal 1 Development History        Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 6:31 am 
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LEOTCK wrote:
The terrain was like late 1996/early 1997, Tim experimented with many terrain methods at the time, however also the DMA guys were supposed to have own terrain system as well. They probably ditched this warfare like terrain system for Unreal early on. Also notice the collision off/on icon, the collision off/on in editor mode is present even in the 95 version if you hit c in the editor mode. That allows for camera to have collision on and one can test for unusual clipping right away. As for the screen with gold, I do have the screenshot but it's very [censored] up, however there is also this same screenshot in a magazine scan PC Games, not the german magazine but the Canadian one, which used this as well, it even shows a screenshot of a mine area with quadshot during the reloading animation. Which is not seen on any other screenshots.


How is it foobared? If it's just data, I'm pretty sure I can try and recover it. If it's JPEG dithering, you're out of luck.


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 PostPost subject: Re: Unreal 1 Development History        Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 2:27 pm 
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It's the image itself, but the one in the magazine scan has better quality.
http://redeye.co30.com/upreview.html
That's the scan, by redeye.


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 PostPost subject: Re: Unreal 1 Development History        Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:38 pm 
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Speaking of Unreal, anyone ever tried to contact members of Legend Entertainment? Those guys made Whell of Time (its on unreal engine, dev started in 96, and released in 99), plus they made Return to Na Pali mission pack for Unreal, and ofc Unreal2 too. They might have materials from old unreal engine, models, betas, etc... Early WoT could contain many goodies :)

workers list: http://web.archive.org/web/200302051950 ... gerlist.pl (unfortunately only thru archive.org, Sam Brown worked on WoT for sure, I've seen him on Unreal forums back in those days) also http://web.archive.org/web/200210202139 ... berts.html the webmaster guy.. might have something, we just need to find working contacts, these emails are super-old.

early unrealed screen: http://web.archive.org/web/200206081554 ... editor.jpg

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 PostPost subject: Re: Unreal 1 Development History        Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 3:01 am 
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I did speak to multiple of them, but because of how all the rights belonged to the US Infogrames aka Atari, even if they had something they were too scared of them to begin with at least with the Unreal 2 stuff, since they really had a kind of iron fist over Legend in the later years. But now the US Atari is gone anyway, so maybe that can help somewhat. *shrugs*
I'll look into it anyway.
That's interesting screenshot though, the editor looks about identical to the one in the 97 "test" demo, must be a build close to it perhaps even one of the 0.86x versions.


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 PostPost subject: Re: Unreal 1 Development History        Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 7:24 pm 
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Sorry, the collision off/on icon was already disabled by then but I would swear I saw it in another screenshot with some test terrain.
Also http://www.oldunreal.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/ ... 1522/11#11 that thread has some article scans/videos stuff too.


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 PostPost subject: Re: Unreal 1 Development History        Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:16 pm 
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Why does it say requested user does not exist when i try to view commandercoffee's profile? He seemed to disapear for a while and I wanted to contact him, but it makes me worried why does it say that in cae of his profile, does that mean he cancelled his membership here or what?


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 PostPost subject: Re: Unreal 1 Development History        Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 6:22 am 
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OK, guys. Update time!

More Emissary stuff just arrived. Overall, in those two batches, we've recovered:

- Unreal build 0.866q - no maps for it.
- Unreal build 0.871d - 4 Unreal maps and several Emissary ones.
- Unreal build 0.874d - 4 Unreal maps and over 50 Emissary ones.
- Unreal build 0.88 - no maps for it.

That's not all however: 4 maps from Emissary ran under the previously recovered Unreal build 0.864v.

There's of course various utils, textures, models, sounds, even source code for both games, mainly for Emissary, but also for Unreal.

When is it going to be released?

NOT YET. There's likely more to come and we don't want to scare potential contributors! When the well dries out, you'll get to play with this, I promise you.

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 PostPost subject: Re: Unreal 1 Development History        Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 4:47 pm 
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It's not a source code, there are no headers or c++ source in there. Unrealscript sources yes but nothing really more. Besides this was the limitation with early licenses, they got devkit just like UDK is now, but they had no source code because the engine was still under developement and changed and would only get full sources once Unreal would be released, that was the deal, so they got the .dll files plus maximally uscript/mesh sources for the main unreal script package and lots of tools.
Here are screenies I took, I imported the other maps(aztec, moros, ruins and fortressentrance(was just work in ued to be ,erged later with real map and had no playerstart, I am assuming this is the Triton map actually) to the later build but some movers/aligments are messed up, but at least I can see the real lighting since I can run glide on the 0.874d version but not the earlier ones. I also took a pic of the maybe triton on the 0871d build as well.
nbeta97pics.rar


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 PostPost subject: Re: Unreal 1 Development History        Posted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 7:59 pm 
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sskins871d.rar
Some skins extracted from 871d, this is the different stuff for sure/some that i wasnt sure if wre diff. Yes you see right, it has stunner skin for the cut stunner weapon, its mesh is there as well, not impaler anymore as it was in a tiny bit earlier build that xcom alliance started dev on(the unreal extracted text files have impaler fully sripted and with import sequences so it was there just few builds earlier). It also has the old "pipebomb" like flare too, they have burning animation as well, using pseudo particle effect instead how final flare has it with just simple two surfaces and firetexture on it.
EDIT: Soundextracts871d.rar
Sounds from 871d, also included are the sounds that were used in those maps (Aztec, Morose, Ruins).

Those are the 871d maps converted to 874d, there were few things to watch out for, first prepivot in the movers was [censored] up and some rotation issues, especially aztec was pain, second, there is a merging of surfaces done by default so some texture aligment like in the fortressentry map is messed up(the windows), there's no easy way to fix this until later using ued2 or something. Also I didn't redo the firetextures correctly, i tried in aztec but failed a bit so the others are static pictures of the firetextures used previously.
874mapconv.rar
The next step is make conversions for final Unreal I suppose of these maps, raw ones but ones that also contain bug fixes so it will look like in the original. I just can't believe how incompatible these versions used to be and one has to go through all the pain adjusting the t3ds and maps...and that is just a version separated by one month in 1997, go figure. No wonder that John Anderson quit theecand saw it as incompecm, however he later sa didn't know this was "normal" among game engine developement, but I still think it is incompetence and that he was right anyway.


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 PostPost subject: Re: Unreal 1 Development History        Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 10:29 am 
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LEOTCK wrote:
I just can't believe how incompatible these versions used to be and one has to go through all the pain adjusting the t3ds and maps...and that is just a version separated by one month in 1997, go figure. No wonder that John Anderson quit theecand saw it as incompecm, however he later sa didn't know this was "normal" among game engine developement, but I still think it is incompetence and that he was right anyway.


Sorry to say but it is normal. Personally being someone who's been working on an engine and the tools behind it for almost two years now, almost everyday there's subtle changes being made to things like the level format which immediately makes older maps incompatible. When an engine is in development it's something you have to learn to deal with and work around. It's not incompetence and calling it so seems rather ignorant when you haven't worked under such conditions yourself before.

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 PostPost subject: Re: Unreal 1 Development History        Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 2:46 pm 
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I'm not talking about the subtle changes only, besides quake .map format is still more or less compatible with each other. But seriously the mover [censored] was way too much, and whenever there was a change Tim told them to edit the t3d references etc, instead of making tools to do it easier or reposition/adjust/rework things. By going through all the stuff I can say that in this case it IS an incompetence, the way some things work/worked. When I just knew the 98 beta stuff, I didn't bring it down to incompetence because it was still more or less compatible and maintained. But just a build separated by few weeks and already not being able to even load simple .utx packages and having to redo fire textures and all because that has been changing as well. (and with firetextures you basically need to cafefuly paint them after inputting the options and pallete and it is not fun especially since there were options that don't exist anymore, the only way to export this would be probably to somehow convert the algorithms
used for this engine generated fractal textures and the exact positions of the sparks. But that seems to be about impossible and way over my head, so one has to resort in creating new ones which are hardly accurate.
But as one example, in 871d many objects are added under "Database", and then just few versions later this "Database" system is scrapped and replaced with the way it remained until final version basically, but just few versions before 871 stuff that wasn't there either. This again creates unecesary complications and problems. One should keep things as simple as possible, but this is just a complete clusterfuck the way it was. The emissary devs were frustrated by this too, especially since they had no control over the engine due to the deal. But Tim's GTi deal was that way, until Unreal was released they wouldn't get source code and would just develop the maps on the versions provided. Lack of documentation/support was also issue, and the constant issues with unrealed and other stuff they reported and the slow and frustrating work with the conversion/texture mapping tools allowing to do one file at a time or one polygon at a time etc for adjusting the meshes.
After all what I've seen(and I havent seen the worst of it perhaps), I really can say that he was right when he was talking about incompetence.


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 PostPost subject: Re: Unreal 1 Development History        Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 3:18 pm 
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LEOTCK wrote:
I'm not talking about the subtle changes only, besides quake .map format is still more or less compatible with each other.


True enough, maps can just be recompiled again but it was just one example of many.

LEOTCK wrote:
But seriously the mover [censored] was way too much, and whenever there was a change Tim told them to edit the t3d references etc, instead of making tools to do it easier or reposition/adjust/rework things.
But just a build separated by few weeks and already not being able to even load simple .utx packages and having to redo fire textures and all because that has been changing as well. (and with firetextures you basically need to cafefuly paint them after inputting the options and pallete and it is not fun especially since there were options that don't exist anymore, the only way to export this would be probably to somehow convert the algorithms
used for this engine generated fractal textures and the exact positions of the sparks.


Not sure why he should be expected to develop tools to make things easier. Having to go over and update things by hand is rough but it should have been expected considering that Cyberlore licensed the engine with the knowledge it was still in development, and I'm sure Epic gave them clear disclaimers regarding that and Cyberlore knew fully well they would not get their hands on the source-code at the time.

Maybe it was wrong of Epic to license the engine out so early, though I assume the amount companies paid to license the engine at the time probably helped fund Unreal's development which I suppose makes the move somewhat logical. I still don't see why any of this was incompetent though, as I said when you're working with an ever changing engine and have to work around that development can get awfully frustrating and confusing, and I'm honestly not surprised if licensee's found it annoying but it hopefully taught them a good lesson.

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 PostPost subject: Re: Unreal 1 Development History        Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 4:14 pm 
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Yeah, some stuff how to do that and that was even told to them in person when meeting with the epic team and not even in any documentation. It was just all so shoddy in the end and not something one would expect. Some people I showed even the stuff earlier, like the texturizer tool on MS Dos and other stuff, they couldn't believe that the devs could have worked with something so primitive. I can't even get the text/stuff to display correctly with dosbox there for example even though the tool does its job obviously, but still is very inflexible and frustrating to work. As someone else also told me, when he read somewhere an answer to question what tools they used to make the meshes so seamless, the answer was the inhouse stuff, but everyone thought those must have been some fancy easy to use tools just like the unrealed-ease they were boasting about. Except it wasn't really that way.
But after all, all those cancelled games(emissary isn't the only one) that we never heard of or almost never heard of, there were about dozens of them, way before Unreal was released. And then when GTi decided to pull back on costs they were cancelled not long before Unreal was released. You can imagine how much time/resources the devs have spent on it only to make it go to waste. If it went through though completely Unreal engine would be used way more back then and maybe even become as used as the later engine versions. And also I think it shows the main intention of Tim to license the engine for big cash and make it a dominating engine on the market.
However this didn't really become reality thanks to all these problems and only became really massively used in the UE-3 era where about every second game uses the stuff. But still even UDK compared to what they had to use to develop these early uengine games, is easy peasy no work affair. One could say each is a bit of extreme, but even with UDK licensees they don't get full source, although for lower price of course and that Epic gets lots of the profit from you selling the game.

EDIT: Speaking of that, I wonder if anyone tried to bring Tim Sweeney to a court for "conspiracy" of trying to make a 3d engine monopoly, just like Bill Gates was put to court back in the 90s. :P

Edit2: unreal88Sound.rar
88 SOUNDDDD
All extracted sounds from the November 97 version, some sounds you'll find very different, some are identical with 98 beta, some are longer though. The Male player sounds in this version are hilarious though. Good they changed those. In fact they sound a bit like some unreal2 overacted sounds. Also some 96 "gasgun" sound for some reaosn in stinger section(maybe this was for the flamegun?) and another "NAILGUN" sound in the Weapons section, speaking of which there is a later "nailgun" sound in the 0871d sound exports i posted earlier, that stinger sound is identical to the one seen in the german magazine 97 preview vid with mark rein. The eightball also works the same in 0871d as in that vid, the rockets ricoche before they start burning, that means before there is fire in the back of the rocket it can bounce off wall and you can shoot rocket around the corner or through slopes. The time needed to do it is extra short but I can imagine it being effective.
I suppose the name for the sounds as nailgun is because I believe I've read somewhere that they wanted to include nailgun in early 96 and then heard that Quake already had such weapon so they began changing it to something else, stinger for that matter..they first made it so that the tarydium shards will stay in the monsters and later explode as tarydium is meant to be unstable, but later in 97 they changed it again to more conventional nailgun like weapon only shooting shards and having a spread altfire, but otherwise just another "nailgun" again and the sound names stayed pretty much until later.

EDIT3:
Skinspr88extr.rar
All the skins/sprites/fonts from 88.
EDIT4:
Textures871d.rar
All the remaining 871d skins and also the extracted textures from the maps/packages.
NOTE: There are some different textures and few textures that appear in genfluid for example are higher res here, 512x512.


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 PostPost subject: Re: Unreal 1 Development History        Posted: Sun Aug 04, 2013 1:21 pm 
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Not much more interest huh? There has been additional recovery of few other builds, but I am still looking for the full betas or the ones that were leaked back in the days. I did find someone who most probably had the unreal monsters 1995 preview on his harddrive, but fact is he was part of undergroundgamer and i effectively lost contact for him when the site got shut down. I hope he will attempt to contact me one day, I really do, because I know of noone with possibility who has it.


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 PostPost subject: Re: Unreal 1 Development History        Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 11:55 am 
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I'm interested :) ...but cant really do anything with exported textures and misc files... I'm not really modding unreal, nor plan to, but I'm silently waiting for the releases of emissary and other oldies...

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 PostPost subject: Re: Unreal 1 Development History        Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 4:10 pm 
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It's already been "out" for some time actually, but not proper releases "yet". If you want to take a look pm me perhaps.


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 PostPost subject: Re: Unreal 1 Development History        Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 9:23 pm 
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:OD niceeee searched for it very long. Udk is nice. But i love the old Unreal 1 and i wanna make something on a classic basic. Lets have a look of it. Low poly models ahoi :D Does anybody know if can run it without problems on a server os like server 2012?


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 PostPost subject: Re: Unreal 1 Development History        Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 1:53 pm 
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alic3x wrote:
:OD niceeee searched for it very long. Udk is nice. But i love the old Unreal 1 and i wanna make something on a classic basic. Lets have a look of it. Low poly models ahoi :D Does anybody know if can run it without problems on a server os like server 2012?

I'm not sure about that(and if it doesnt run well i guess you can try something like virtual machine programs). And I'm trying really hard to recover the old leaks too, but people are not responding lately. When I come across a developer they usually respond quite fast though. I'm so close though. Or at least it feels that way.


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 PostPost subject: Re: Unreal 1 Development History        Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 7:53 pm 
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Unreal Alpha Monsters Preview was recovered Saturday night. I'll tell who it is later based on whether he wants to(I have to ask for permission and its not someone from community and no it's not the original leaker either).
I will quote the post by Delacroix. The images are his though, I took few myself also, especially more of the wizard, I'll show them below his quote. EDIT: Del's images were removed because they exceeded the dimensions allowed and i would need to change the quoted post and reupload them here.
Quote:
Leo's latest recovery:
The Unreal September 1995 Monster Preview Tech Demo

*IMAGES REMOVED*










Grab here.

Image
Image
The wizard images by me, the "high res" ones.

Posting the link to Del's post at BUF: http://forums.beyondunreal.com/showpost ... tcount=229

EDIT2: This alpha was given to us by "TheVac", after a long search of people who downloaded this stuff back in the days. There is still one leak from ROR left to recover and that is the 96 unreal editor/unreal beta one. There is a person with it I believe, so I want to appeal to her to please share it if possible if she reads this. I managed to find someone with this monsters preview leak after all, despite having doubts after the last failures where i lost contact with a guy who had it.


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 PostPost subject: Re: Unreal 1 Development History        Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 9:39 pm 
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Awesome find! Any chance you could upload the fix to see the wizard without glitches? :)

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 PostPost subject: Re: Unreal 1 Development History        Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 7:26 pm 
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dezodor wrote:
Awesome find! Any chance you could upload the fix to see the wizard without glitches? :)

It's not a fix, i simply captured the single frame of "animation" where he appears fine if you posses him first and keep that window open. When you are in control of him and view yourself youll see him flash in his normal form for a second.


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 PostPost subject: Re: Unreal 1 Development History        Posted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 12:17 pm 
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It is amazing that you guys were able to track this down. What is interesting is that this build is a month older than the other 1995 alpha.
I don't think this command works in this alpha, but if you type it into the other one, it enables a more aggressive pixel filtering.

Code:
REND SMOOTH


Amazing what Epic had even before Quake left beta stage. Still love Quake though. :mrgreen:


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