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Question about FTP submission denial

Posted: Sat Sep 05, 2020 10:42 pm
by plutomaniac
Hello,

I uploaded something today but I think (?) it got denied. It's not at the upload ftp and the user control panel does not show FTP Access as pending anymore. Would it be possible to know what was wrong? I've read all the instructions multiple times so I'm not sure. Maybe the year omission was the problem?

Thank you for your time

Re: Question about FTP submission denial

Posted: Sun Sep 06, 2020 12:41 am
by mrpijey
Well that's because you didn't upload anything according to the guidelines, so it's impossible that you read them. Or you skipped through the important parts.

Re: Question about FTP submission denial

Posted: Sun Sep 06, 2020 4:38 pm
by plutomaniac
Thank you for the reply.

I did read them as the name was proper, not forbidden to upload, correct file format, "Completed" folder etc. Alas, I did skip the CD/DVD ripping instructions because that Windows FLP MUI "CD #4" was originally retrieved online from Microsoft but nowadays these cannot be found anymore.

Anyway, I'll upload something else (2006 game engine tech demo) which might be more interesting. I named it as well as possible, according to the definitive guide, and added a note to explain what it is.

Re: Question about FTP submission denial

Posted: Sun Sep 06, 2020 5:27 pm
by mrpijey
You must have missed the part where it says you need to provide something original to get FTP access... I suggest you read the guidelines again.

Re: Question about FTP submission denial

Posted: Sun Sep 06, 2020 5:49 pm
by plutomaniac
Are you talking about the new submission or the old? I assume the new. This is what the guide says regarding "originals":
We want originals, not something you found in a torrent or some other beta or abandonware site.
There is no actual explanation of what "originals" means, only counter examples. The 2nd submission was neither found at a torrent nor other abandonware sites. It was retrieved from the official webpage (https://web.archive.org/web/20060901080 ... /penumbra/) back when it was still available, around 10 years ago.

Re: Question about FTP submission denial

Posted: Sun Sep 06, 2020 11:47 pm
by mrpijey
This is the main guide (the only stickied guide in the Guides section, it's available in my signature and also linked to on the contribution page, so you can't miss it):

viewtopic.php?f=39&t=32742

Right there is a paragraph with a link:
Important: If you are a new member and want to apply for FTP access you need to read this first. Applying for FTP access without it will result in a deleted application.
It includes a link important for those that are new members. But if you missed that the very first entry is called:
Contribution guidelines for new members.
On the very first paragraph of that section it says:
--------
Read this if you are a new member and want access to our FTP.
--------

To become a FTP member you need to contribute one copy of a physical original title you own that is not available in our archive. To make sure this is done properly please read this guide, it outlines every step you need to take and also provides you with links to all the tools needed.

If you fail to follow these instructions and apply for FTP access before completing all the steps your application will be rejected with or without notice.
Note the underline bold part. How is this unclear? Does "original" really need to be defined and explained? OK then:

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictio ... h/original

Considering we're dealing with software here these would be the most fitting meaning of the word:
  • An original piece of work, such as a painting, etc. is produced by the artist and not a copy
  • the first one made and not a copy
So this would exclude all the second hand copies, as well as second hand downloads (i.e not from original website). Since we don't accept digital downloads as FTP application contributions, all downloads you will find, regardless how original you may find them, would automatically be excluded.

Combine the meaning of your choice with "...title you own" and it should be clear we're not talking about some digital download at all, even if it's from an "original" website. We're talking about a copy of a physical item that has not been copied by anyone else other than the manufacturing plant.

That being said, there are some exceptions, such as you can also upload a better copy of an existing title (again, dumped from original media) if our existing copy is bad, or if you have an original beta that wasn't necessarily purchased in retail but got through other sources (beta programs, ebay etc). This is why it doesn't say an original retail copy, nor d

I hope I've cleared up the confusion about the meaning of "an original title you own".

Re: Question about FTP submission denial

Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 1:36 pm
by plutomaniac
Original could mean various things when it comes to software. For example, non-counterfeit, non-modified/altered. But it's not a synonym for "physical". In this case, it seems that the actual rule is: "We accept physical medium dumps only" which is arguably not really applicable nowadays when most software is starting to abandon physical forms. Anyway, this is matter of semantics and it's not for me to decide since it's your platform and rule-set. I'm just expressing an opinion and since this is the feedback area, may I suggest to emphasize the word "physical medium" more alongside "original" as software is not like paintings for instance? Other than that, please feel free to delete the second submission from the upload server. Thank you for your replies.

Re: Question about FTP submission denial

Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 5:45 pm
by mrpijey
Thanks for your feedback and I will take it into account. But the reason it doesn't say physical is because we in rare cases accept non-physical copies if they can be proven they are original and if they are rare. But since our primary role is to preserve physical media correctly we prefer that members upload direct copies of discs, floppies, tapes etc and not second hand copies. Even if you have an ISO how do you prove it's an original? In most cases you can't unless you have a distributor who can validate hashes of the release. Apart from FOSS titles, Microsoft, Adobe and a few others none do that. You won't (as far as I know) find any of that on Steam, Origin, EGS or Battle.net.

In the end we do require copies of original media you own or have direct access to as there might need to be made re-dumps, rescans or simply proof that you have access to it. You can't easily fake an original, but you can easily fake a digital copy, especially if there are no hashes to be validated against.

But if you feel you have something worthwhile to contribute that isn't an original title I am willing to hear it and consider it, I am always open to suggestions.

Re: Question about FTP submission denial

Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 8:40 pm
by plutomaniac
Alright, I appreciate the lengthy explanation mrpijey. I certainly have abandonware original disks which are not in the DB so maybe I'll give it a try in the future. :)