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 PostPost subject: Re: [Debate] The future of the wiki        Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 7:29 pm 
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We should probably get a spam extension of sorts first though if this happens.


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 PostPost subject: Re: [Debate] The future of the wiki        Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 9:21 pm 
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Battler, please contact Andy or mrpijey by PM; only admins can create an account for you.
gabegriggs1 wrote:
We should probably get a spam extension of sorts first though if this happens.


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MediaWiki already has some by default. And the AbuseFilter extension, if implemented properly, can single-handily block a lot of spam, from experience.
SistemaRayoXP wrote:
The Meow_2004 suggestion is good. That happened when BA was more active. Nowadays BA is a bit more relaxed in comparison, so maybe trying leaving it open for a week might work well

That would be my line of thought, but then there should be a couple of admins on standby. I can do it if the admins are fine with it.


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 PostPost subject: Re: [Debate] The future of the wiki        Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:45 pm 
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JimOlive wrote:
I personally haven't really bothered using the BA Wiki in years, instead going to https://thecollectionbook.info . It's clean, has the info you need, and screenshots too. The BA Wiki might be able to be cleaned up, expanded, and saved, but it's not great right now. I just took a quick trip to the BA Wiki Windows 98 section, and a bunch of pages were blank or had virtually no info.

It's probably not worth the time and resources it would take to fix the Wiki.

The Collection Book is not enough. Not at all.

First of all, the wiki can only be as good as its members make it. If there are not any members interested in contributing just because they think similarly to you, then the wiki will never be good.

Second, while the BA wiki (and BetaWiki by extension) also covers leaked Windows builds, TCB profits from the fact that practical information about builds of Windows such as BIOS dates, keys and timebomb dates is the kind of information most beta testers will want. However, there is still a lot to be written about the builds themselves, about any particular interesting things that they have. Information about unleaked builds is also required to understand the development of a Windows version, most importantly Windows 1.0 and its magazine showoffs.

Take a look at the Development Release 5 article on BetaWiki. The infobox on the right is roughly 80% of what you'll ever see on TCB. The remaining 20% is in the article itself.

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 PostPost subject: Re: [Debate] The future of the wiki        Posted: Wed Mar 13, 2019 4:54 am 
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To be honest, there have been many discussions on this, but few times people would actually want to do something. And to be fair, there is some info on TCB that's not exactly correct.

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 PostPost subject: Re: [Debate] The future of the wiki        Posted: Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:06 am 
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I was thinking to make it slightly easier to apply as a wiki member, one must simply click a link, similar to when you apply for FTP access and an admin will evaluate the application.


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 PostPost subject: Re: [Debate] The future of the wiki        Posted: Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:11 am 
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That's something doable. And with SSO implemented it would make the wiki access easier

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 PostPost subject: Re: [Debate] The future of the wiki        Posted: Wed Mar 13, 2019 9:01 pm 
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It would be better to merge BetaWiki and the BA Wiki.


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 PostPost subject: Re: [Debate] The future of the wiki        Posted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 6:04 pm 
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OK, the following things have happened:

1. The wiki is now on the latest mediawiki version.
2. It's now open to all users, no account required.
3. We have a UserGroups extension so we can set up superusers if needed.
4. I have no hair left. The mediawiki guys really need to pull their head out of their backsides and make it easier to upgrade, etc. I had to set up php7 just for the wiki, I had to find several php extensions that nobody typically uses and then troubleshoot various other things...

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 PostPost subject: Re: [Debate] The future of the wiki        Posted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 6:41 pm 
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Thanks Andy for your hard work! One thing I have to ask though, is there a spam extension installed?


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 PostPost subject: Re: [Debate] The future of the wiki        Posted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 6:42 pm 
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Not yet, we're working out some issues as the wiki doesn't seem to be behaving properly. Sometimes you submit something and it doesn't do what it was meant to do and we're not sure why yet.

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 PostPost subject: Re: [Debate] The future of the wiki        Posted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 6:43 pm 
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That’s odd. I can help troubleshoot if you want. I don’t really have much to do for the next few hours.


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 PostPost subject: Re: [Debate] The future of the wiki        Posted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 7:08 pm 
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We've had to lock the wiki down again as we got spammed immediately after opening it up. We're looking at anti-spam solutions ASAP and then we'll open it again.

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 PostPost subject: Re: [Debate] The future of the wiki        Posted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 11:44 pm 
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Even though it's locked from editing, the wiki is already looking good interface- wise. I hope there is a solution to spamming soon and then I'm hopeful for further expansion for the wiki.


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 PostPost subject: Re: [Debate] The future of the wiki        Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 1:56 am 
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I'm noticing one very big problem with the wiki, and is that many members have different visions for it. Some might want to do this and some others might want to do that.

If we can't agree on where to direct the wiki, it will remain the same as it was before, because everyone speaks garbage about it, saying that it is incomplete, that nobody reads it, or simply that all the changes and additions get reverted by one or another member.

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 PostPost subject: Re: [Debate] The future of the wiki        Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 10:47 am 
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SistemaRayoXP wrote:
I'm noticing one very big problem with the wiki, and is that many members have different visions for it. Some might want to do this and some others might want to do that.

If we can't agree on where to direct the wiki, it will remain the same as it was before, because everyone speaks garbage about it, saying that it is incomplete, that nobody reads it, or simply that all the changes and additions get reverted by one or another member.

Yes, this seems to be a big problem for BA wiki right now. Right now there are multiple people each pursuing their own BA wiki vision. To add to that, there is this guy whose contributions are mostly pointless reverts of anything even slightly similar to BetaWiki, which apparently includes even a damn Windows 3.1x link. Y'all need to sit down and set some common policies and guidelines before continuing.

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 PostPost subject: Re: [Debate] The future of the wiki        Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 11:51 am 
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AlphaBeta wrote:
SistemaRayoXP wrote:
I'm noticing one very big problem with the wiki, and is that many members have different visions for it. Some might want to do this and some others might want to do that.

If we can't agree on where to direct the wiki, it will remain the same as it was before, because everyone speaks garbage about it, saying that it is incomplete, that nobody reads it, or simply that all the changes and additions get reverted by one or another member.

Yes, this seems to be a big problem for BA wiki right now. Right now there are multiple people each pursuing their own BA wiki vision. To add to that, there is this guy whose contributions are mostly pointless reverts of anything even slightly similar to BetaWiki, which apparently includes even a damn Windows 3.1x link. Y'all need to sit down and set some common policies and guidelines before continuing.

I agree, we do need rules and guidelines for all members to follow.


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 PostPost subject: Re: [Debate] The future of the wiki        Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 12:55 pm 
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I believe it's a lack of anyone coming up with a hard plan/roadmap. We're all putting out ideas with no organization.

Here's my plan for the wiki:

1. Our first priority is to get up a group to work with Andy to update and maintain wiki code. Andy clearly needs a hand. In addition, testing code. For instance, I may be one of the few still using a 5s and I can tell you the wiki is not scaling right. And there is no doubt it won't scale right with others either.

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2. SSO login linked to the forum's user database. We seriously shouldn't be using completely separate login databases for both and we can rig the wiki to use the main forum's cookies. With that, we can allow the wiki to grant certain permissions based off the user.

3. Moderation and QC system. If there are users willing to dedicate resources time etc to maintaining quality, then so be it. In addition the rules and guidelines determined. Mine are: no copypasta, proper citations, organized information, as any other community wiki has.

4. Content. Letting people know the wiki is up for users to add wholesome content, and taking the time to add it. AKA actually building the wiki data back up.

We need a definitive plan for the wiki if we want it to get off the ground, and here's one to get started. As I said before, I'm willing to dedicate time for any of these tasks.

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 PostPost subject: Re: [Debate] The future of the wiki        Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 1:01 pm 
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yourepicfailure wrote:
1. Our first priority is to get up a group to work with Andy to update and maintain wiki code. Andy clearly needs a hand. In addition, testing code. For instance, I may be one of the few still using a 5s and I can tell you the wiki is not scaling right. And there is no doubt it won't scale right with others either.

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Not sure who had the idea to switch the wiki to responsive Monobook, but that skin is so horribly outdated. The proper way for a mobile view would be to install MobileFrontend and the MinervaNeue skin. And for god's sake, switch the default desktop skin to Vector, these 1 pixel high tabs hurt my eyes.

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 PostPost subject: Re: [Debate] The future of the wiki        Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 1:19 pm 
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yourepicfailure wrote:
I believe it's a lack of anyone coming up with a hard plan/roadmap. We're all putting out ideas with no organization.

Here's my plan for the wiki:

1. Our first priority is to get up a group to work with Andy to update and maintain wiki code. Andy clearly needs a hand. In addition, testing code. For instance, I may be one of the few still using a 5s and I can tell you the wiki is not scaling right. And there is no doubt it won't scale right with others either.

2. SSO login linked to the forum's user database. We seriously shouldn't be using completely separate login databases for both and we can rig the wiki to use the main forum's cookies. With that, we can allow the wiki to grant certain permissions based off the user.

3. Moderation and QC system. If there are users willing to dedicate resources time etc to maintaining quality, then so be it. In addition the rules and guidelines determined. Mine are: no copypasta, proper citations, organized information, as any other community wiki has.

4. Content. Letting people know the wiki is up for users to add wholesome content, and taking the time to add it. AKA actually building the wiki data back up.

We need a definitive plan for the wiki if we want it to get off the ground, and here's one to get started. As I said before, I'm willing to dedicate time for any of these tasks.


1. We'll try to install MobileFrontEnd as soon as possible to start with and switch the skin. The main page should soon be unprotected as well hopefully so that users can improve the main page (note that you can already edit the transcluded templates if you already have an account).
2. Can't say about that yet. This might be challenging, and I don't know what will happen to already existing accounts. This extension looks promising, however https://github.com/multidimension-al/phpbbauth


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 PostPost subject: Re: [Debate] The future of the wiki        Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 2:57 pm 
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I agree. The SSO linked login may be more difficult. As well as merging information from previous accounts(stats, uploaded content permissions etc.) to the new database based off the forum.
However, I note this change as a key point because it not only opens up the wiki in a way, but also providing an antispam system by only allowing known users to edit and create pages, and if those known users decide to goatse the wiki we have a better idea of who did it while controlling possible future instances. Implementing Andy's original policy in a way, except seamlessly. The work would be worth it.

We need to look after the more successul wikis for inspiration. By already being connected to a known forum, the Betaarchive wiki has potential.

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 PostPost subject: Re: [Debate] The future of the wiki        Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 9:26 pm 
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Okay, so we're mostly done. Here're the rundown:
    Any user can now register. Sockpuppets (using more than one account) are strictly prohibited, and may result in a block.
    Mobile support is now available.
    A new usergroup moderator is now available, which has most of the sysop permissions that will be useful. For now only two users are part of that group.
    Importing content and templates from other wikis is available, a moderator can do it for you.
    SSO support is not available at this time, due to the reasons mentioned by the admin a few posts back.
    VisualEditor or the 2017 wikitext editor is unfortunately not available either, as it was found to be too difficult (and it indeed isn't easy) to install. However the 2010 editor is now available.
    Normal users can no longer make changes to the abusefilters.
Happy contributing! And huge thanks to Andy for making this possible.


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 PostPost subject: Re: [Debate] The future of the wiki        Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 9:37 pm 
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Excellent work everyone! Nice to see the wiki getting back into shape!

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 PostPost subject: Re: [Debate] The future of the wiki        Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 9:54 pm 
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Should there be a specific criteria for the wiki moderator rank? I just feel that some written criteria should help to get some more people to become moderators. This would help if the wiki is opened up and we have a large number of trolls and spammers.

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 PostPost subject: Re: [Debate] The future of the wiki        Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 10:04 pm 
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WILSON2bGg wrote:
Should there be a specific criteria for the wiki moderator rank? I just feel that some written criteria should help to get some more people to become moderators. This would help if the wiki is opened up and we have a large number of trolls and spammers.

Addition to that group is handled on a case-by-case basis.


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 PostPost subject: Re: [Debate] The future of the wiki        Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 10:06 pm 
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If new user registration is now open, could anybody replace and/or delete the text in the main page where it says the requirements for registration?

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