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 PostPost subject: Re: FTP Access Rights are too hard to obtain.        Posted: Sat Jan 23, 2016 6:21 pm 
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MSUser2013 wrote:
Andy wrote:
If anyone has any reasonable suggestions for other ways people can contribute then I'm all ears. Otherwise you'll have to obey the rules in place.

What about donations? I think donating between $10-25+ USD could be good enough to support this site enough for users to get both FTP access and Donator Membership at the same time.


The first problem with this approach is basically not everyone has the ability to do this. A lot of our user base is <16 years old who of course won't have a PayPal account. It's also one of the reasons we've always dismissed a subscription based approach (not forgetting the legal implications of doing this too).

The second problem is that money doesn't actually contribute to the purpose of the site. Sure it keeps the server up and running which we're all definitely thankful for from all those who donate, but it's not something we can then give to the users. Don't let this discourage you from donating if you really value what we do though. We need donations to keep the site up.

We're hopefully going to put together some guides showing ways and places you can find software to contribute - there are a lot of them.

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 PostPost subject: Re: FTP Access Rights are too hard to obtain.        Posted: Sat Jan 23, 2016 6:51 pm 
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I get the feeling that most of the common stuff is already up with good dumps. If so, I'm pretty sure 99% of the people anywhere don't have hundreds of dollars/euros to buy just one rare item. If I'm wrong and there are common items here that need redumps, then a list should be made (which I heard you mention before).

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Fair enough then. You need the internet to get a job, but if you haven't got a job, what else would you do on the internet instead of trying to get your life together and finding a job for the time being? My point is that If I were extremely poor, I wouldn't use the internet for BA, but rather to improve my situation. It's all about priorities rather.


For many, there is no getting out of such a tough situation. Many have put all there energy, but ended up with no change in their situation.

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 PostPost subject: Re: FTP Access Rights are too hard to obtain.        Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2016 12:59 pm 
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I agree that there should be another way of getting access. It's so hard to know what is currently on the FTP server. If a public list is made, I guess that'd help but would also like another method.


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 PostPost subject: Re: FTP Access Rights are too hard to obtain.        Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2016 6:07 pm 
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I really appreciate BAs push to get new and redumped titles. While it might not be fair to everybody, I would hope that BA would continue to offer some incentive for members to actively get out there and seek old software.

Buying software off of eBay doesn't have to cost hundreds, although once you get hooked it can add up :) A $20 lot of random floppy disks is likely to have something that that needs archival or a redump.

To put things in perspective, if one were to collect physical copies of all distinct boxed commercial software releases - lets be generous and say even just for the IBM PC since 1981 - you would easily fill up dozens of large warehouses.

Now add in all the other platforms that ever exsited, Mac, Amiga, Apple II, why there were at least several thousand unique ports and revisions of CP/M by itself.

There are piles upon piles of software that need to be preserved and archived. It is not all glamorous. And many of these titles have probably already disappeared forever in to landfills.

Given the sheer quantity of software that was out there, once you step outside of the really common titles (anything that does not start with "Microsoft") it is highly probably that it isn't out there yet or needs a redump.

Yes, one may have to ask around. Who knows, perhaps your neighbor was at Comdex Fall 1983 and has a copy of the Windows pre-release Bill Gates was showing off. Yes, you may have to buy something off of eBay. That $0.99 CD labeled something like "FooCorp Boring Accounting 97" deserves to be archived just as much as (well, in my opinion more than) some Windows beta.

Yes, one may have to buy at least a USB CD drive or USB Floppy drive. (Why would anyone not want a floppy drive! :P ) If anyone runs in to a form of media they really can't read, ask around and there probably is someone in your area that would be happy to help you out.


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 PostPost subject: Re: FTP Access Rights are too hard to obtain.        Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2016 8:26 pm 
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Aye; the amount of software out there is mind-boggling and there is nothing like 99% of it already archived, more like 1%. Go to charity shops, you can pick up more rare and interesting 90s software for cheap than you can shake a stick at.


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 PostPost subject: Re: FTP Access Rights are too hard to obtain.        Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 6:20 am 
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Remember also that we don't accept only old titles, new ones are welcome too. So if you got a disc of that new Tomb Raider game for example it's fine too. We've not even scratched the surface of what's available for preservation.

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 PostPost subject: Re: FTP Access Rights are too hard to obtain.        Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 11:44 pm 
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One idea is creating a Youtube channel for people to upload tutorials as a contribution for the site.

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 PostPost subject: Re: FTP Access Rights are too hard to obtain.        Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2016 6:12 am 
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Youtube videos doesn't add anything to the preservation part of the site, which is what we request to be added to if the member want to take part of the FTP.

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 PostPost subject: Re: FTP Access Rights are too hard to obtain.        Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2016 8:48 am 
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gabegriggs1 wrote:
One idea is creating a Youtube channel for people to upload tutorials as a contribution for the site.

Dear God please, no more YouTube tutorials. IMHO they all suck from a usability point of view. A regular text-based tutorial (with screenshots) is much much better. You can search in it, and you can quickly jump forward and backward for example.

You also almost always have to watch it twice, pausing every few steps, seeking back and forth, most of the time you don't understand the wonky accent of the guy when he's talking, and worst of all you cannot use ctrl-f to skip to a certain point.

Only the person doing the tutorial is at an advantage, since recording a video is much easier than making screenshots and typing everything.

If anything, there should be bonus points for people who write proper tutorials (on google docs, or the BA wiki, so you don't even need a webserver or anything). Not for some crappy video tutorials.

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 PostPost subject: Re: FTP Access Rights are too hard to obtain.        Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2016 3:24 pm 
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mrpijey wrote:
Youtube videos doesn't add anything to the preservation part of the site, which is what we request to be added to if the member want to take part of the FTP.


I disagree. If there is something that cannot be figured out by others but someone else has figures it out then that would be a contribution to the beta and abandonware world and it would help others learn more about how they work and what they can do with them.

Darkstar wrote:
gabegriggs1 wrote:
One idea is creating a Youtube channel for people to upload tutorials as a contribution for the site.

Dear God please, no more YouTube tutorials. IMHO they all suck from a usability point of view. A regular text-based tutorial (with screenshots) is much much better. You can search in it, and you can quickly jump forward and backward for example.

You also almost always have to watch it twice, pausing every few steps, seeking back and forth, most of the time you don't understand the wonky accent of the guy when he's talking, and worst of all you cannot use ctrl-f to skip to a certain point.

Only the person doing the tutorial is at an advantage, since recording a video is much easier than making screenshots and typing everything.

If anything, there should be bonus points for people who write proper tutorials (on google docs, or the BA wiki, so you don't even need a webserver or anything). Not for some crappy video tutorials.



I think both are good qualifications for FTP access. I disagree with you on the video thing because usually (at least with me) I really have some trouble following most text tutorials due to either bad wording, incomplete screenshots, or just plain not knowing where things are. I feel it is better to see someone do it in front of me then to read a text tutorial.

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 PostPost subject: Re: FTP Access Rights are too hard to obtain.        Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2016 9:21 pm 
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The thing is, reading a tutorial forces you to think about things, and why they are done the way they are, instead of just blindly following "click here, then type "foobaz", then click that and then do this..."

That's why I value written tutorials more than videos

For example, here is a guide for installing Ultrix 4.5 in SimH. I think if you would do this on a video it would not add much, and in text form you can at least search and stuff...

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 PostPost subject: Re: FTP Access Rights are too hard to obtain.        Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2016 10:03 pm 
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JustZisGuy wrote:
Buying software off of eBay doesn't have to cost hundreds, although once you get hooked it can add up :) A $20 lot of random floppy disks is likely to have something that that needs archival or a redump.


This isn't always true, specially when you live outside US/EU. Maybe the package cost you a few bucks, which generally will be multiplied many times by shipping costs :-(.

JustZisGuy wrote:
To put things in perspective, if one were to collect physical copies of all distinct boxed commercial software releases - lets be generous and say even just for the IBM PC since 1981 - you would easily fill up dozens of large warehouses.

Now add in all the other platforms that ever exsited, Mac, Amiga, Apple II, why there were at least several thousand unique ports and revisions of CP/M by itself.

There are piles upon piles of software that need to be preserved and archived. It is not all glamorous. And many of these titles have probably already disappeared forever in to landfills.

Given the sheer quantity of software that was out there, once you step outside of the really common titles (anything that does not start with "Microsoft") it is highly probably that it isn't out there yet or needs a redump.


Again, except for "common" titles, searching for new titles is actually not so easy for people living outside USA/EU. Maximize that many of the old software outside these regions generally is pirated stuff from USA BBSs.

....

Check that i don't disagree with the idea of asking betas and old software titles for preservation. When FTP access was easier, some persons just abused their access and leaked BA stuff to other sites. If someone has to be blamed to make FTP access hard to get, where these people.

To me looks fair enough.

gabegriggs1 wrote:
I disagree with you on the video thing because usually (at least with me) I really have some trouble following most text tutorials due to either bad wording, incomplete screenshots, or just plain not knowing where things are. I feel it is better to see someone do it in front of me then to read a text tutorial.


At least text manuals and tutorials can be indexed for search, compared automatically with some tool, or even semi-translated with Google translator. Videos... no.

Darkstar wrote:
The thing is, reading a tutorial forces you to think about things, and why they are done the way they are, instead of just blindly following "click here, then type "foobaz", then click that and then do this..."


You said it. +1


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 PostPost subject: Re: FTP Access Rights are too hard to obtain.        Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2016 12:50 pm 
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Well those are my thoughts. Are there any other ideas?

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 PostPost subject: Re: FTP Access Rights are too hard to obtain.        Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2016 8:25 am 
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Andy wrote:
We're open to suggestions on how else you can contribute that would be beneficial to the community and allow you to receive access in return.

I have a suggestion:

    - Fulfill an outstanding request, whereby:
      - The rules could potentially in this case be relaxed slightly, i.e.:
        - Allow abandonware. [It is unclear whether contributing abandonware is sufficient to meet contribution criteria sufficient for gaining FTP access. As I read it, ].
        - Allow for a "B+" contribution, i.e., something in the spirit of the discussion at this thread.

(If it isn't obvious, this is basically my own present situation. I'm not going to spam this thread with my particulars. But essentially I have a request I could fulfill, and I've fully tested it; but it is from a ~15 year old archive, and so I can't vouch that it is bit-for-bit as it was originally distributed.)

In any case, the gist of my argument is that fulfilling a request might be considered "beneficial to the community" to an extent that (should one lack access to a unique piece of software that was originally distributed on physical media / cannot meet the "photographic proof" criteria), this might be sufficient to gain one access?

-Geoff


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 PostPost subject: Re: FTP Access Rights are too hard to obtain.        Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2016 7:40 pm 
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- mupupu: Abandonware that is provided in form of a dump of original media, and is accompanied with scans, is an acceptable contribution for FTP Access.

Stuff that is not from original media can still be contributed and might be added to the archive if in good enough condition (eg. it's the installer and not a pre-installed version), but it will not get you FTP Access.

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 PostPost subject: Re: FTP Access Rights are too hard to obtain.        Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2016 11:44 pm 
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come on it´s really not that hard to upload something which is usefull and not on the ftp my first 10gb of uploads were just deleted straight away (fail on my end for sure) so it just takes some time

really like the rules now and got quite addicted to uploading (I´m not into Microsoft stuff just a Mac OS collector but all my uploads are Microsoft related and I still have another folder with around 60 cd´s to dump, scan and upload which aren´t on the FTP xD)

greetz


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 PostPost subject: Re: FTP Access Rights are too hard to obtain.        Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2016 11:54 pm 
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i guess its bit easier on how old soft someone has
i know i have somewhere Norton AV '98
had Norton Sys Works 2003 (lost that one :()
1 unleaked linux OS
another unleaked beta app

think I even have pre-release of Command & Conquer for DOS (not the win95 version)

but it all depends what one sees as rare


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 PostPost subject: Re: FTP Access Rights are too hard to obtain.        Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 12:07 pm 
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It's not about how rare it is, but if we got it and it's worth preserving. Official retail software is always worth preserving, same goes for betas.

But when in doubt, ask. PM me if you found something and I'll tell you if it's worth preserving or not.

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 PostPost subject: Re: FTP Access Rights are too hard to obtain.        Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 8:02 pm 
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Honestly it seems like anyone willing to spend just a little money can get a huge collection of old floppy disks or cd-rom's.
Here is a good example of what you can get for about $30 USD.

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 PostPost subject: Re: FTP Access Rights are too hard to obtain.        Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 10:13 pm 
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or pay the admin and get donator title


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 PostPost subject: Re: FTP Access Rights are too hard to obtain.        Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 12:11 am 
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Roo_the_Vickty wrote:
or pay the admin and get donator title

This won't get you FTP access...


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 PostPost subject: Re: FTP Access Rights are too hard to obtain.        Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 6:26 pm 
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xZEROx wrote:
Honestly it seems like anyone willing to spend just a little money can get a huge collection of old floppy disks or cd-rom's.
Here is a good example of what you can get for about $30 USD.

Do you think everyone can do this?


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 PostPost subject: Re: FTP Access Rights are too hard to obtain.        Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 6:33 pm 
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If you own any software that's not on the FTP it's probably acceptable. My RollerCoaster Tycoon games were accepted as well as a Visual Studio 2010 promo disc that was freely available on the internet anyway. Sadly I lost the Dell OEM Vista disc but that would be accepted too.
It doesn't have to be some rare betas or whatever.

I'm all for contribution before access myself.

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Last edited by meagain on Sat Apr 30, 2016 5:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 PostPost subject: Re: FTP Access Rights are too hard to obtain.        Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2016 2:26 pm 
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It doesn't have to be old, mate. Mr P has also mentioned how you could contribute by uploading a CD of a brand new game that came out yesterday...

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 PostPost subject: Re: FTP Access Rights are too hard to obtain.        Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2016 5:32 pm 
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computebrute wrote:
It doesn't have to be old, mate. Mr P has also mentioned how you could contribute by uploading a CD of a brand new game that came out yesterday...

Forgot about that, fixed!

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