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 PostPost subject: Re: FTP Access Rights are too hard to obtain.        Posted: Fri Jul 05, 2019 12:27 pm 
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Please update yourself with the guide, specifically the section of items we don't want.

Second, we have a separate forum section here for offers, don't post it here...

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 PostPost subject: Re: FTP Access Rights are too hard to obtain.        Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 12:41 pm 
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mrpijey wrote:
MCpillager12 wrote:
I think that you should be given ftp access at 250 posts.

Anyways the only OS i have is Windows XP ia64 japanese, from MSDN, but i dont know whether its the 2001 or 2003 edition, because i havent downloaded it.
Its already on ftp.

Smart, a bit more posts than what you have at the moment, but not out of your reach to get easy FTP access... I see what you did there :).

No, posts alone won't do it. We're a software preservation community so what you need to contribute is something worth preserving. And if you really wanted access you would have easily found something to contribute, others have without any real effort. It's quite simple, if you want to get access to what others gathered and contributed you need to contribute yourself.

If you make an effort it will pay off.

Yeah, just realized that. :$
Anyways, I think you should be given FTP access when you have at least 1000 edits on the wiki, and at least 200 of them should not be undone.

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 PostPost subject: Re: FTP Access Rights are too hard to obtain.        Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 1:11 pm 
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MCpillager12 wrote:
Anyways, I think you should be given FTP access when you have at least 1000 edits on the wiki, and at least 200 of them should not be undone.

Isn't that pretty much the same thing as the 250 posts thing you proposed before? There is a reason why we moved away from 10 contributing posts a few years ago.

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 PostPost subject: Re: FTP Access Rights are too hard to obtain.        Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 2:19 pm 
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MCpillager12 wrote:
Anyways, I think you should be given FTP access when you have at least 1000 edits on the wiki, and at least 200 of them should not be undone.

Or you could stick to the rules, you know?
It's already been explained why they are the way they are. You already know now the requirements. In all the time you keep spending in this thread trying to circumvent/bypass/change the rules, you could have already bought, received and dumped at least 1 item that would have granted you FTP access.


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 PostPost subject: Re: FTP Access Rights are too hard to obtain.        Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 5:10 pm 
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I want to share how I got FTP Access.

I got a Office 2000 Small Business CD (Spanish), followed the guidelines on how to make a proper release, and uploaded everything to the public FTP. Then I applied for FTP Access on the forum.

Honestly, it is not hard to find something to contribute. You can search for items on eBay that are not already on the FTP. For example, some Office 2000 releases are not on the FTP, along with many other releases. You can search for some software on eBay, Amazon, etc.

On WinWorld there are lists of software you can buy and contribute with:
https://forum.winworldpc.com/discussion ... ped#latest
https://forum.winworldpc.com/discussion ... zon#latest

The only drawback of this is that you need some way to dump it, possibly getting a KryoFlux you could dump it.

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 PostPost subject: Re: FTP Access Rights are too hard to obtain.        Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 5:41 pm 
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SistemaRayoXP wrote:
The only drawback of this is that you need some way to dump it, possibly getting a KryoFlux you could dump it.

Not necessary as there are tons of disc titles that is just as easy to get and dump.

But this is all pointless, if the user doesn't want to put in the effort then it's not our business. If you want access to the FTP you need to contribute to the FTP. You will never get access to it by making posts on a forum or a wiki. So that's not worth suggesting as it will never happen.

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 PostPost subject: Re: FTP Access Rights are too hard to obtain.        Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 5:46 pm 
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Frankly, I fail to see what the problem is. For those of us old enough to remember the 80s BBS era, the rules at BA are remarkably easy to comply with. You only have to make a single contribution, then you get an account - which will not expire or be revoked unless you do something silly. No ratios, no time restrictions, reasonable requirements about quality, and there is very clear guidance on what to do and how.

Scanners are cheap, even semi-decent ones. I got mine second-hand for next to nothing. Original software not in the FTP is easy to find in auction sites. If anyone wants FTP access that bad, surely they will be are willing to put a little effort. I did and was quickly rewarded. Nobody wasted my time, so I try not to waste theirs.

You may disagree with the overall philosophy of the site, or how it is managed, or other matters of context, but I don't see how that goes into the equation. It is a private site. The rules for membership are clear. I doubt that trying to convince the admins to make exceptions is a more efficient use of time than just accepting the deal.


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 PostPost subject: Re: FTP Access Rights are too hard to obtain.        Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 6:13 pm 
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Exemptus wrote:
Frankly, I fail to see what the problem is. For those of us old enough to remember the 80s BBS era, the rules at BA are remarkably easy to comply with. You only have to make a single contribution, then you get an account - which will not expire or be revoked unless you do something silly. No ratios, no time restrictions, reasonable requirements about quality, and there is very clear guidance on what to do and how.

Scanners are cheap, even semi-decent ones. I got mine second-hand for next to nothing. Original software not in the FTP is easy to find in auction sites. If anyone wants FTP access that bad, surely they will be are willing to put a little effort. I did and was quickly rewarded. Nobody wasted my time, so I try not to waste theirs.

You may disagree with the overall philosophy of the site, or how it is managed, or other matters of context, but I don't see how that goes into the equation. It is a private site. The rules for membership are clear. I doubt that trying to convince the admins to make exceptions is a more efficient use of time than just accepting the deal.


Probably the wisest words spoken on this site in a long time - thank you. It's great to see we have people that understand it from the right perspective.

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 PostPost subject: Re: FTP Access Rights are too hard to obtain.        Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 7:26 pm 
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Actually, the rules were enforced because some guys started to leak BA stuff to other warez-like sites whose names are well known in the net. Later was found the ones who leaked the stuff were people which contributed nothing to BA but earned FTP access via posts or similar BS. After the rules were enforced, the leaks went practically zero.


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 PostPost subject: Re: FTP Access Rights are too hard to obtain.        Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 8:26 pm 
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Well that's partially true, it wasn't because of the leaks, but because people just spammed and posted their way into the FTP without contributing anything worthwhile. The load on the FTP became higher and higher by members that did nothing to help out in the community. So we enforced the rule for everyone's benefit, the FTP got more content for the members and everyone would be part of the preservation process instead of just leeching off other members efforts.

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 PostPost subject: Re: FTP Access Rights are too hard to obtain.        Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 12:31 am 
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SistemaRayoXP wrote:
I want to share how I got FTP Access.

I got a Office 2000 Small Business CD (Spanish), followed the guidelines on how to make a proper release, and uploaded everything to the public FTP. Then I applied for FTP Access on the forum.

Honestly, it is not hard to find something to contribute. You can search for items on eBay that are not already on the FTP. For example, some Office 2000 releases are not on the FTP, along with many other releases. You can search for some software on eBay, Amazon, etc.
...

I don't understand why people seen to be so focused on Microsoft software. There is so much MS stuff already on the FTP that this is probably the most difficult way to get FTP access that you can possibly imagine.

Just grab a random old CD-ROM based game from any yard sale, 2nd hand shop, attic find, etc., dump it & scan it. Much cheaper and easier than hunting for that one single Spanish Windows XP release that's not on the FTP yet, or something...

For example, I grabbed a game called "Nihilist" on a yard sale some weeks ago, for 2€. I didn't know anything about that game, never heard of it and probably will never play it. I didn't even need to check the BA database, because I was 100% sure it is not on BA yet. I just liked the cover ...

Some months ago, a co-worker gave me two bags full of games (mostly educational stuff and compilations not fitting for BA, but it had a boxed version of Tomb Raider in it too) because he "knew that I collected old stuff". For free. Just like that.

There are literally dozens of chances like this everywhere, if you just keep your eyes & ears open...

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 PostPost subject: Re: FTP Access Rights are too hard to obtain.        Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 4:37 am 
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Here is a quick eBay search that is more suited for beginners:
https://www.ebay.com/dsc/i.html?_odkw=c ... acat=18793

Just CD-rom software under $10 ordered by lowest price first. Currently 6,622 results.

Some OK ones on the very first page, although one would have to pass on driver disks. Patience and better searching would yield much more than even these.

If someone can't even afford ~$5, then how they will pay for health insurance?


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 PostPost subject: Re: FTP Access Rights are too hard to obtain.        Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:50 am 
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Exemptus wrote:
Original software not in the FTP is easy to find in auction sites.

It's even easier than that, since at least as far as I know, you can also contribute a better copy of something already on the FTP, e.g. an original dump of something that's currently on the FTP from ages ago and in poor condition. This little detail is overlooked way too often and then people think they have to get something not on the FTP yet, when that's not really the case. The new searchable database can help with this misconception, if you actually use it to check beforehand, of course.

JustZisGuy wrote:
If someone can't even afford ~$5, then how they will pay for health insurance?

Not really a relevant comparison since in many places that are not the USA, health insurrance doesn't work that way.

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 PostPost subject: Re: FTP Access Rights are too hard to obtain.        Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 5:22 pm 
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The main goal of reaching FTP Access is to contribute to the community, right? then why restricting the process to people than are able to dump a retail titile, why can’t people contribute with beta versions of games that are purely digital and the BA database doesn’t have yet? From my point of view, you are encouraging users to upload ''useless'' stuff that probably no one will search up for and stopping others to upload betas, which are more likely to be requested... even more if it’s from a game. Just my two cents here.


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 PostPost subject: Re: FTP Access Rights are too hard to obtain.        Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 6:11 pm 
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index_32 wrote:
[...] stopping others to upload betas, which are more likely to be requested

An interesting claim. Can the FTP's download stats tell whether this is right, taking into account the different proportion of abandonware vs beta titles? (23% / 55% as of today)


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 PostPost subject: Re: FTP Access Rights are too hard to obtain.        Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 6:32 pm 
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index_32 wrote:
The main goal of reaching FTP Access is to contribute to the community, right? then why restricting the process to people than are able to dump a retail titile, why can’t people contribute with beta versions of games that are purely digital and the BA database doesn’t have yet? From my point of view, you are encouraging users to upload ''useless'' stuff that probably no one will search up for and stopping others to upload betas, which are more likely to be requested... even more if it’s from a game. Just my two cents here.

Mainly because we decided to focus on full retail copies, and we don't have endless of drive storage or money. And I would say some random beta of some digital indie game is by far more useless than a proper and full copy of a retail product. The internet is flooded with junk indie stuff, and the endless betas of them and that's not what we want to prioritize.

We accept game betas on the FTP to a point but the primary focus is to preserve physical original retail copies, and that's what needs to be contributed for access. And if you can provide a copy of a physical original disc of a beta it will be accepted.

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 PostPost subject: Re: FTP Access Rights are too hard to obtain.        Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 8:06 pm 
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mrpijey wrote:
index_32 wrote:
The main goal of reaching FTP Access is to contribute to the community, right? then why restricting the process to people than are able to dump a retail titile, why can’t people contribute with beta versions of games that are purely digital and the BA database doesn’t have yet? From my point of view, you are encouraging users to upload ''useless'' stuff that probably no one will search up for and stopping others to upload betas, which are more likely to be requested... even more if it’s from a game. Just my two cents here.

Mainly because we decided to focus on full retail copies, and we don't have endless of drive storage or money. And I would say some random beta of some digital indie game is by far more useless than a proper and full copy of a retail product. The internet is flooded with junk indie stuff, and the endless betas of them and that's not what we want to prioritize.

We accept game betas on the FTP to a point but the primary focus is to preserve physical original retail copies, and that's what needs to be contributed for access. And if you can provide a copy of a physical original disc of a beta it will be accepted.
I uploded to the server a PS3 beta of nothing more, nothing less than NFS Most Wanted 2012 from 25th of April, something you don’t possess in your database. I partly get that you don’t want everything to be uploaded into the server, but this is something worth preserving.

Getting a retail copy is not very ''accessive'' nowadays, and I would much rather donate to the server instead of buying a 10-20€ external DVD/CD reader + spending extra time searching for that one majestic retail copy just to gain access to the FTP. I’ve seen you have some stuff I’m very interested in but this comes too far, not worth the effort anymore.


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 PostPost subject: Re: FTP Access Rights are too hard to obtain.        Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:03 pm 
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Well you uploaded it despite the guidelines saying it won't be acceptable so you can't now expect to get access because you happen to disagree with them. I am sorry, but we've setup the guidelines this way for a reason.

Yes we may preserve your uploaded beta, but not as an original (as it's not) and with an uncertainty if it's complete or not (no verifiable sources or media). But to get access to the FTP you still need to get something original. Finding such title is not difficult. You can provide something old, or something new. A game, application, OS. You have lots of options. But it needs to be original. So yes, your uploaded beta will be preserved, but it will not get you FTP access. I could give you FTP access, but then it would be unfair to everyone else that actually made an effort providing an original title. And if you think you can contribute in some other way worth to the community then I am listening.

Getting a retail copy today is very "accessive" as everyone else manages it without any efforts. Today alone I've approved four other applications without issues, and at the same time I've dumped over 200 titles of my own, some borrowed from friends, some bought cheaply online, and some traded. And I didn't even try to get the good stuff. When members truly will have problems finding stuff then we will discuss alternatives, but BetaArchive doesn't even have a fraction of all the available retail software found on ebay, Craigslist and all international variants of these services. Flea markets, friends, family, coworkers. Heck, put up a note in town saying you'll buy old PC/Mac games for a buck a piece and you'll get instant hit.

But I understand if you think you have better things to do than hunting down an original retail copy. But don't blame it on our guidelines.

I am getting tired repeating this, but finding original software is not difficult.

I look forward to your original retail contribution and I'll process it as soon as it comes in.

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 PostPost subject: Re: FTP Access Rights are too hard to obtain.        Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 3:38 pm 
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AlphaBeta wrote:
MCpillager12 wrote:
Anyways, I think you should be given FTP access when you have at least 1000 edits on the wiki, and at least 200 of them should not be undone.

Isn't that pretty much the same thing as the 250 posts thing you proposed before? There is a reason why we moved away from 10 contributing posts a few years ago.

Nope, I only have 600 or so edits on there, and about 50-60 of them were reverted.

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 PostPost subject: Re: FTP Access Rights are too hard to obtain.        Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 10:01 pm 
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Still, it will NOT get you FTP access, why bother?


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 PostPost subject: Re: FTP Access Rights are too hard to obtain.        Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 11:05 am 
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MCpillager12 wrote:
AlphaBeta wrote:
MCpillager12 wrote:
Anyways, I think you should be given FTP access when you have at least 1000 edits on the wiki, and at least 200 of them should not be undone.

Isn't that pretty much the same thing as the 250 posts thing you proposed before? There is a reason why we moved away from 10 contributing posts a few years ago.

Nope, I only have 600 or so edits on there, and about 50-60 of them were reverted.

It's quite easy to spam your way to 1000 edits or 250 posts. It's even easier with wiki edits.

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 PostPost subject: Re: FTP Access Rights are too hard to obtain.        Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 11:07 am 
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This topic has run its course and we have made it quite clear how you can gain access to the FTP. The entry method is not going to change at this time, so you can either put a little effort into getting access to it or sit quietly :)

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