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 PostPost subject: OK so whats with all the SSL and changing passwords?!        Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 1:34 am 
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Hello all,

Well, let me explain. You all know Zimmy. Yes, the person I banned this week. Well he's decided he doesn't like this website anymore. Odd I know, since he's made a lot of great contributions.

So, how did he do it? Well, at his expense really. He bought a server inside OVH, the same datacenter the server running this website is in, and he began doing something called ARP Poisoning. I have no idea how it works, nor do I want to know, but what I do know is that he was "snooping" in on every bit of information being passed around this server for days. That means he got a dump of all the data leaving and entering the server. The dump included passwords, posts, private messages, and other things, including any e-mails on accounts on the server most likely.

Because he had access to these passwords, this meant, in my stupidness, that he also had the root password to the server (yes it was the same at the time as my user account password on BA). A bad idea, as I have now learned. Some people on MSN knew this was happening and kindly told me, so I was keeping a watch out for a while. First the server randomly decided to shut itself down. Obviously Zimmy having a field day... Then nothing for 2 hours. Suddenly, 100% CPU spikes which I put down to a DDoS. But oh no, Zimmy was making a database dump of the BA forum. Wonderful. Something I never wanted to happen, happened right in front of me. 2 years of BA posts, users and passwords, now in his hands. That is why I'm asking everyone to change their passwords right now.

So how does SSL stop this happening again? Well for one it means that unless he can break 2048 bit encryption, he's got no chance of seeing any data going in or out of the server releated to this website anymore. That includes images. Oh by the way thinking about it, the image uploader images are offline, bollox... Well I can fix that another time. Right now security is more important.

I can't say I'm pleased this has happened, as I'm sure you're all annoyed at the "obvious lack" of security. Well, it takes a punch in the face to realise these things sometimes, and thats exactly whats happened now. No site is 100% secure, just as no server is either. Problems like this will happen, and will continue to happen. I only hope this sort of thing can be avoided in the future.

Andy (Admin)

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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 2:04 am 
Let me explain this exactly as it's happened.

This was in no way/shape/form ARP poising. Could I have gone that route? Sure, but it's at a cost of buying an OVH box and hoping I'm on the same router as Andy (highly likely though).

Now through a carefully planned method I obtained a users password, not from here but another source. This was in plain text, no decryption necessary. Said user was completely unaware of this.

Now the password worked on hosting. I mangled the login syntax (ba_) out of another member. Little did I know, the password I had obtained worked for his ftp login.

I then proceeded to upload a PHP file. The exact source of it is as follows:

http://pastebin.ca/1256595

Now if you haven't guessed, this is a [very primitive] reverse shell, as in all I need to do is do http://.../lol.php?cmd=(insert command here)

Now, as an OVH rep pointed out to Andy, Windows is a security flaw in itself. Unlike Apache and IIS, which, with some tinkering, can be ran under a non-privileged user. Abyss runs as a Windows Service, thus running as a superuser, including all fastcgi processes (like PHP). Thus if I ran a whoami command with that script, it would return the "user" running the "command" as NT AUTHORITY\system. You all should know that under that user you can do anything.

Next comes the actual hackjob, it was a simple copy the config.php to config.txt, thus showing all the conf info for the database.

Moving on, with that info I proceeded to upload phpMyAdmin, which, imho, is very slow. But I viewed permissions and found out the root user (which also used andy's usual password) was used by the forums, and, that the MySQL root user had access to connect from any machine. Unlike a seperate user for your forums which is only allowed to connect to localhost, which is one thing he should have done in the first place.

So with the above information I had the user, password, and an idea of all the hosts I could make a connection from, thus making the MySQL tools highly accessable, and speeding up the process.

Now if you look at that process above, you will realise that using HTTPS is not the option you need to take, as I could preform the same steps again, grab your private key, and then decrypt any traffic with ease. Will I do it? No, you have suffered enough.

Network Security is something that Andy, and everyone, needs to take seriously. Have I been a victim of it? Yes, and to a much higher degree than what took place today.

Here's a summary of what you should do:

* If you have ANY thought you are under attack, take action at once.
* If you insist on using Windows as a server, do NOT run any server daemons under privileged users. I'm pretty sure IIS and Apache can run the daemon, or atleast the modules (PHP, ASP, Perl, etc) under a non-privileged user, which would have prevented the actions happening today from taking place.
* Do NOT use the same password for multiple things of multiple importance levels.
* DO lock down your PHP. Suhosin is a good patchset for *nix, and it works on Win32 as well afaik.
* DO patch your software, once I have gained root acesss I also had a choice of a few unpatched holes in his PHP 4.2.0 and MySQL 4.20-winnt installs.
* Disabling all shellexec commands in PHP (which can be done in php.ini) is also a good safety precaution. They are usually required for system info [censored] but what's better, showing off or your server security?

I will state this right now, no passwords will be leaked.

Also, andy, your title is still set to manwhore, might wanna change that.


Last edited by getoverit on Sat Nov 15, 2008 2:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 2:05 am 
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oh my god dude, glad everything thing is back!!!

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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 2:07 am 
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I had a feeling it was zimmy

Also you best change the FTP password,


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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 2:08 am 
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Thanks for the quick response. I will never understand the need of those who feel the need to destroy others' hard work when they break themselves break the rules. Having been a victim of a server hacking myself, I know how much time is spent wasted recoving from such pointless endeavors.


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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 2:10 am 
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WOW, what a A-Hole. Sorry for the problems you had Andy.


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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 2:16 am 
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this has got to be the stupidest thing ever, hope he likes that data its all of ba he will ever see hopefully.

just to make sure he didn't delete anything he only got a copy of everything right?

sorry for the long day your having andy


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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 2:22 am 
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One thing that bugs me.
Why Zim, what do you gain from all this, why bother?


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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 3:32 am 
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How very immature. :cry:


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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 3:41 am 
jabster wrote:
One thing that bugs me.
Why Zim, what do you gain from all this, why bother?

That's an easy question to answer, Zim thinks / acts like he's a cut above the rest
of us, this was his way of proving it, & proving to himself that he has control, regardless
of a ban...
One day, he'll realise that the majority of everyone else in this world is just as talented,
they just don't flaunt it like he does, & when I say talented, I don't necessarily mean in
the field of computers, it could be anything they've dedicated their life too, I reckon
any one of us here could throw a question at him that he couldn't answer, relating
to something we're good at, it doesn't mean we have the right to act superior, &
treat others like they're idiots for the simplest of mistakes...
But in saying that, maybe zim has a personality we're mis-interpreting, unfortunately,
words on a screen can't show us the users expression, something he needs to think about
before pressing that "submit reply" button...


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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 4:04 am 
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Am I the only one who remembers his picture
from the "what do you look like form"?
He looked like a 12 year old!

an extremely fat 12 year old!


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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 4:05 am 
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st.alfonzo wrote:
KenOath wrote:
OG wrote:
jabster wrote:
Resplendent wrote:
mewrox99 wrote:
I had a feeling it was zimmy

Thanks for the quick response. I will never understand the need of those who feel the need to destroy others' hard work when they break themselves break the rules. Having been a victim of a server hacking myself, I know how much time is spent wasted recoving from such pointless endeavors.

One thing that bugs me.
Why Zim, what do you gain from all this, why bother?

How very immature.

That's an easy question to answer, Zim thinks / acts like he's a cut above the rest
of us, this was his way of proving it, & proving to himself that he has control, regardless
of a ban...

Am I the only one who remembers his picture
from the "what do you look like form"?
He looked like a 12 year old!

an extremely fat 12 year old!
I have one word, one word that best describes Zimmy. A hypocrite. Not only is he a hypocrite, but he has decided to steal power over the forum.

And I knew about it, because right when I noticed what happened to the website, I contacted some people who I thought might know what's going on, such as contacting mrpijey first, and then grabberslasher when I noticed he was online, and then grabberslasher told me that it was Zimmy, that hacked into the administrator account and stole the database. 8-)

Wow, the more I come onto forums, the more things like this that I see. I don't see why he would have to steal Andy's power and take over the forum and even steal the database, just because he doesn't like this forum. And why he would do that if he didn't even like it is beyond me. 8-)

I actually think he did it because he got permanently banned. He was behaving badly, insulting someone who was older than KenOath, and even calling Andy a Nazi.

So he got banned. Good. I agree with mrpijey, what he did was immature. And he could have just said "sorry", and that would be the end of it. Instead, he chose (out of his own immature concience) to insult someone who is OLDER than KenOath, as though he were an eight year old (which I find to be very unfair to him), and then calling Andy a Nazi, well that was really bad, and I mean REALLY bad. I don't care what it is you're doing, because you NEVER, EVER, call anyone in any case a "Nazi"!

And I also agree with KenOath too, because the way he insulted someone who again, was OLDER than KenOath, for something small, and then leaving off the "h" in "Whyman" when he put in an "Anti-Andy" thing in his signature, proves that he is a hypocrite.

There are some people in this world that I just can't believe. He is one of them! 8-)

And Zimmy, thanks a lot, you've just wasted a ton of money on your childish act!

EDIT: Fixed post
EDIT2: Zimmy is not a 12 year old. That actually makes it worse though, and that's one of the main reasons I made this post. People at his age should know better.


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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 4:42 am 
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Andy had backup it?(Zimmy sucks)
I can't go to this website sometimes(HTTP 404+500),and i've msned you.

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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 5:11 am 
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harry4567 wrote:
Andy had backup it?(Zimmy sucks)

Zimmy didn't delete/edit anything, the use of a backup was not necessary, he merely made himself a copy of the forum.

harry4567 wrote:
I can't go to this website sometimes(HTTP 404+500),and i've msned you.

That would be from when Andy was using SSL encryption a few hours ago, Open IE, go to Tools, Internet Options, Advanced, scroll down to the bottom of the list and make sure all the SSL boxes are ticked.


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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 5:17 am 
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thanks for helping me..... :)

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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 5:33 am 
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WinPC wrote:
*Snip*

I have one word, one word that best describes Zimmy. A hypocrite. Not only is he a hypocrite, but he has decided to steal power over the forum.

And I knew about it, because right when I noticed what happened to the website, I contacted some people who I thought might know what's going on, such as contacting mrpijey first, and then grabberslasher when I noticed he was online, and then grabberslasher told me that it was Zimmy, that hacked into the administrator account and stole the database. 8-)

Wow, the more I come onto forums, the more things like this that I see. I don't see why he would have to steal Andy's power and take over the forum and even steal the database, just because he doesn't like this forum. And why he would do that if he didn't even like it is beyond me. 8-)

I actually think he did it because he got permanently banned. He was behaving badly, insulting someone who was older than KenOath, and even calling Andy a Nazi.

So he got banned. Good. I agree with mrpijey, what he did was immature. And he could have just said "sorry", and that would be the end of it. Instead, he chose (out of his own immature concience) to insult someone who is OLDER than KenOath, as though he were an eight year old (which I find to be very unfair to him), and then calling Andy a Nazi, well that was really bad, and I mean REALLY bad. I don't care what it is you're doing, because you NEVER, EVER, call anyone in any case a "Nazi"!

And I also agree with KenOath too, because the way he insulted someone who again, was OLDER than KenOath, for something small, and then leaving off the "h" in "Whyman" when he put in an "Anti-Andy" thing in his signature, proves that he is a hypocrite.

There are some people in this world that I just can't believe. He is one of them! 8-)

And Zimmy, thanks a lot, you've just wasted a ton of money on your childish act!

EDIT: Fixed post
EDIT2: Zimmy is not a 12 year old. That actually makes it worse though, and that's one of the main reasons I made this post. People at his age should know better.


Please, read my post. It might give you a bit of insight before you post what you did.

First, explain how this cost me any money?

Second, this was in no way, shape, or form, related to that ban. Honestly, I could care less about that ban. I should explain there's a split of thoughts related to BA. Some people suck up, some people don't priticulary care for the moderation jobs done. I've explained it to andy in a very long MSN chat today so there's not much of a need to re-type it all out.

Now the problem is, as Andy has even admitted to it in the orignal post, that I made great contrubutions. I do everywhere, it's in my nature. But the fact that I'm very rude and blunt is something that's in my personality, and is something most people usually understand and deal with. If someone who operates a community preforms actions that his/her members generally dislike, it usually doesn't end up well. I've heard rumors from other members that they wish to stop going to OSBA, and even some staff wishes to leave from what I've heard. When you manage to drive members away who post quality material, your left with the idiots who just post "HAI IM NEW WHEREZ THE WINDOWZ SEVEN!!!111one", which is not helpful at all.

Is there work that needs to be done to BA? Of course, in lots of aspects, and Andy has told me that himself. I also understand, as I do software development, server maintence, and occasionally network security audits for a living, that nothing ever happens overnight.

And regarding the betaluva trolls, I'm still trying to find how he contributes to this kind of community. I don't think a person's age has anything to do with a troll. I judge it based on contribution. This is where you bring KenOath back into the picture, while yes, he's probably horriably pissed at me, I do see his posts as informitive, well thought out content.

Im rambling on way too much at late hours so I will just sum this up, while I'm not excusing my actions, I do wish that you will stop taking a FOX NEWS approach at understanding the full details. Some people never agreed with this but, I've always thought, if you have a problem with anything about me, just let me know. I'm willing to work with people but I want people to approach me directly about it.

Also: for everybody wanting the DB, past and present, [censored] off, your not getting it.


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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 5:36 am 
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getoverit wrote:
Let me explain this exactly as it's happened.

This was in no way/shape/form ARP poising. Could I have gone that route? Sure, but it's at a cost of buying an OVH box and hoping I'm on the same router as Andy (highly likely though).

Now through a carefully planned method I obtained a users password, not from here but another source. This was in plain text, no decryption necessary. Said user was completely unaware of this.

Now the password worked on hosting. I mangled the login syntax (ba_) out of another member. Little did I know, the password I had obtained worked for his ftp login.

I then proceeded to upload a PHP file. The exact source of it is as follows:

http://pastebin.ca/1256595

Now if you haven't guessed, this is a [very primitive] reverse shell, as in all I need to do is do http://.../lol.php?cmd=(insert command here)

Now, as an OVH rep pointed out to Andy, Windows is a security flaw in itself. Unlike Apache and IIS, which, with some tinkering, can be ran under a non-privileged user. Abyss runs as a Windows Service, thus running as a superuser, including all fastcgi processes (like PHP). Thus if I ran a whoami command with that script, it would return the "user" running the "command" as NT AUTHORITY\system. You all should know that under that user you can do anything.

Next comes the actual hackjob, it was a simple copy the config.php to config.txt, thus showing all the conf info for the database.

Moving on, with that info I proceeded to upload phpMyAdmin, which, imho, is very slow. But I viewed permissions and found out the root user (which also used andy's usual password) was used by the forums, and, that the MySQL root user had access to connect from any machine. Unlike a seperate user for your forums which is only allowed to connect to localhost, which is one thing he should have done in the first place.

So with the above information I had the user, password, and an idea of all the hosts I could make a connection from, thus making the MySQL tools highly accessable, and speeding up the process.

Now if you look at that process above, you will realise that using HTTPS is not the option you need to take, as I could preform the same steps again, grab your private key, and then decrypt any traffic with ease. Will I do it? No, you have suffered enough.

Network Security is something that Andy, and everyone, needs to take seriously. Have I been a victim of it? Yes, and to a much higher degree than what took place today.

Here's a summary of what you should do:

* If you have ANY thought you are under attack, take action at once.
* If you insist on using Windows as a server, do NOT run any server daemons under privileged users. I'm pretty sure IIS and Apache can run the daemon, or atleast the modules (PHP, ASP, Perl, etc) under a non-privileged user, which would have prevented the actions happening today from taking place.
* Do NOT use the same password for multiple things of multiple importance levels.
* DO lock down your PHP. Suhosin is a good patchset for *nix, and it works on Win32 as well afaik.
* DO patch your software, once I have gained root acesss I also had a choice of a few unpatched holes in his PHP 4.2.0 and MySQL 4.20-winnt installs.
* Disabling all shellexec commands in PHP (which can be done in php.ini) is also a good safety precaution. They are usually required for system info [censored] but what's better, showing off or your server security?

I will state this right now, no passwords will be leaked.

Also, andy, your title is still set to manwhore, might wanna change that.


You keep [typing] but all I [read] is "I have no life".

Yeah spend your time hacking because someone made you mad. Boohoo you [censored] baby. Stop sucking your moms teet, get a job, get a life, get a girl, and make something out of yourself.

98% of people who do this [censored] end up having a bad life. Looks like your ten steps ahead.

Also the letter v.


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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 5:43 am 
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Panda X wrote:
getoverit wrote:
Let me explain this exactly as it's happened.

This was in no way/shape/form ARP poising. Could I have gone that route? Sure, but it's at a cost of buying an OVH box and hoping I'm on the same router as Andy (highly likely though).

Now through a carefully planned method I obtained a users password, not from here but another source. This was in plain text, no decryption necessary. Said user was completely unaware of this.

Now the password worked on hosting. I mangled the login syntax (ba_) out of another member. Little did I know, the password I had obtained worked for his ftp login.

I then proceeded to upload a PHP file. The exact source of it is as follows:

http://pastebin.ca/1256595

Now if you haven't guessed, this is a [very primitive] reverse shell, as in all I need to do is do http://.../lol.php?cmd=(insert command here)

Now, as an OVH rep pointed out to Andy, Windows is a security flaw in itself. Unlike Apache and IIS, which, with some tinkering, can be ran under a non-privileged user. Abyss runs as a Windows Service, thus running as a superuser, including all fastcgi processes (like PHP). Thus if I ran a whoami command with that script, it would return the "user" running the "command" as NT AUTHORITY\system. You all should know that under that user you can do anything.

Next comes the actual hackjob, it was a simple copy the config.php to config.txt, thus showing all the conf info for the database.

Moving on, with that info I proceeded to upload phpMyAdmin, which, imho, is very slow. But I viewed permissions and found out the root user (which also used andy's usual password) was used by the forums, and, that the MySQL root user had access to connect from any machine. Unlike a seperate user for your forums which is only allowed to connect to localhost, which is one thing he should have done in the first place.

So with the above information I had the user, password, and an idea of all the hosts I could make a connection from, thus making the MySQL tools highly accessable, and speeding up the process.

Now if you look at that process above, you will realise that using HTTPS is not the option you need to take, as I could preform the same steps again, grab your private key, and then decrypt any traffic with ease. Will I do it? No, you have suffered enough.

Network Security is something that Andy, and everyone, needs to take seriously. Have I been a victim of it? Yes, and to a much higher degree than what took place today.

Here's a summary of what you should do:

* If you have ANY thought you are under attack, take action at once.
* If you insist on using Windows as a server, do NOT run any server daemons under privileged users. I'm pretty sure IIS and Apache can run the daemon, or atleast the modules (PHP, ASP, Perl, etc) under a non-privileged user, which would have prevented the actions happening today from taking place.
* Do NOT use the same password for multiple things of multiple importance levels.
* DO lock down your PHP. Suhosin is a good patchset for *nix, and it works on Win32 as well afaik.
* DO patch your software, once I have gained root acesss I also had a choice of a few unpatched holes in his PHP 4.2.0 and MySQL 4.20-winnt installs.
* Disabling all shellexec commands in PHP (which can be done in php.ini) is also a good safety precaution. They are usually required for system info [censored] but what's better, showing off or your server security?

I will state this right now, no passwords will be leaked.

Also, andy, your title is still set to manwhore, might wanna change that.


You keep [typing] but all I [read] is "I have no life".

Yeah spend your time hacking because someone made you mad. Boohoo you [censored] baby. Stop sucking your moms teet, get a job, get a life, get a girl, and make something out of yourself.

98% of people who do this [censored] end up having a bad life. Looks like your ten steps ahead.

Also the letter v.


...

You have 32 posts. Most of which are very shoddy. I have never even HEARD of you before today. I could defend your post, but it's a waste of time. But do answer, did my $20,000 line of credit happen overnight?


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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 6:08 am 
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Don't worry, all this mess will be taken care of.

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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 6:10 am 
Zimmy wrote:
And regarding the betaluva trolls, I'm still trying to find how he contributes to this kind of community. I don't think a person's age has anything to do with a troll. I judge it based on contribution.
Betaluva's a linux fan, & doesn't have much to offer in the way of
betas, or info relating to them, he's also juggling a family, a forum, a job, & an evening
tech course, & has bugger all free time, yet whenever I've needed help, or something he
has, he go's out of his way to help or share...
Even when I was new on OSBA, he went out of his way to post CD's of Longhorn to me,
at his expense, again, something that gave me a good impression of the beta community
at that time, & something I've since done, dozens of
times myself, in an effort to create a friendlier atmosphere...

Zimmy wrote:
This is where you bring KenOath back into the picture, while yes, he's probably horriably [censored] at me,

No, not really, just annoyed at the effort you {seemingly} go to, to tick someone off...
When I'm mad, you'll get a PM saying so...


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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 6:39 am 
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Am I just blind or did he never post much about Linux here? If I've seen some of his work with linux, etc, I'd probably have a whole different view. And I personally don't see what goes on between people, unless it's public. From what I read that I can interact with, i don't see much, but if you say good, I will assume good.


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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 7:07 am 
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Zimmy wrote:
You have 32 posts. Most of which are very shoddy. I have never even HEARD of you before today. I could defend your post, but it's a waste of time. But do answer, did my $20,000 line of credit happen overnight?

Hes a member of aeroxp.org and joejoe, also one of the people behind a pretty good longhorn visual style for Vista.
Vista Custo and dj_cityboy are also members of these two forums, neither of these three people are newbies, they just don't spend their time on the same forums you do.
Perhaps you should do a little research before you make rash judgements...


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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 8:06 am 
Zimmy wrote:
Am I just blind or did he never post much about Linux here? If I've seen some of his work with linux, etc, I'd probably have a whole different view. And I personally don't see what goes on between people, unless it's public. From what I read that I can interact with, i don't see much, but if you say good, I will assume good.

Over the past couple of years or so, I've sat back & whatched him get a lot of flack from various windows communities, trying to get a few facts straight,of how Linux has certain security advantages over windows, to the point where I was amazed that he didn't lose it at some of the smart remarks that were thrown at him, after a while, you begin to realize that people's opinions will never change, & that trying to convince them otherwise is a waste of breathe, so he just doesn't bother any more, that doesn't mean he doesn't have friends outside of the forum,
& still contributes in some way or another...


jabster wrote:
Hes a member of aeroxp.org and joejoe, also one of the people behind a pretty good longhorn visual style for Vista.
Vista Custo and dj_cityboy are also members of these two forums, neither of these three people are newbies, they just don't spend their time on the same forums you do.
Perhaps you should do a little research before you make rash judgements...

& that's the whole point of this debarcle, people will only stay where they're socially
accepted...
& if there's one thing I can't stipulate enough, is that 1st impressions last...


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 PostPost subject: Re: OK so whats with all the SSL and changing passwords?!        Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 8:11 am 
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Andy wrote:
I'm sure you're all annoyed at the "obvious lack" of security.


Not really, it happens.

What is annoying though is that Mr. Egomaniac/Credit Line over here is not banned anymore, and on top of that he's boasting about things not even related to computers, let alone this board.


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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 8:50 am 
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Zimmy Use a cheap method to unban his account.LOL.

Make me laughing,it sucks did him know? :oops:

It will make me/other feel you is a selfish,cheap man. :O

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