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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 6:14 pm 
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0vermind wrote:
I have thought this over myself plenty of times especially when it came down to stupid things like that different angle of the chery tree in redmond. You know that only a few people have that wallpaper and this was talked about over at JoeJoe a long time ago and it came down to people bragging "I have it and you don't so hahahaha".

I've come to realize it's all about greed, it's all about power and who has what no one else does. That way they can leak screenshots and stuff and say "oh hey look what I can do and experience that you can't". Selfishness and greed is what it seems to come down to.


That's only a portion of people...I would hope most folks aren't like that. I'm beginning to understand that the common reason is people don't want to betray their friends or get in trouble. If it came down to it, I would choose to keep their trust, which is what everyone should do. These builds are only so important...they can't replace good friends, no matter how rare or "unnique" those betas are.

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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 7:01 pm 
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4tified wrote:
0vermind wrote:
I have thought this over myself plenty of times especially when it came down to stupid things like that different angle of the chery tree in redmond. You know that only a few people have that wallpaper and this was talked about over at JoeJoe a long time ago and it came down to people bragging "I have it and you don't so hahahaha".

I've come to realize it's all about greed, it's all about power and who has what no one else does. That way they can leak screenshots and stuff and say "oh hey look what I can do and experience that you can't". Selfishness and greed is what it seems to come down to.


That's only a portion of people...I would hope most folks aren't like that. I'm beginning to understand that the common reason is people don't want to betray their friends or get in trouble. If it came down to it, I would choose to keep their trust, which is what everyone should do. These builds are only so important...they can't replace good friends, no matter how rare or "unnique" those betas are.


A real friend would never stop being friends because they were betrayed. They would forgive and forget. If they don't, they're not a real friend. Its just lucky that some of us do have those kind of real friends.

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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 4:19 am 
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1. Friendships
2. Jail/ fines
3. Greed

That about sums up what the major reasons are.

One more thing...
look what happened to longhorn... It got really hyped because people got to use it before it came out so the hype went into overdrive. Now because so many Longhorn builds leaked people look at vista with disgust. I am willing to bet that if no longhorn builds leaked people would like VISTA.

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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 5:25 am 
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One problem:

Longhorn was leaked before Vista = People hate Vista

right?

but:

Mac OS X Betas leaked before RTM = People get more interested in OS X.


See that?

How can that be possible?

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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 5:35 am 
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WildEye001 wrote:
One problem:

Longhorn was leaked before Vista = People hate Vista

right?

but:

Mac OS X Betas leaked before RTM = People get more interested in OS X.


See that?

How can that be possible?


I think its because (I'm probably wrong as I've barely used Longhorn) of the rewrite where Longhorn was renamed to Vista and they were disappointed in this new OS called Vista.


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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 6:27 am 
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WildEye001 wrote:
One problem:

Longhorn was leaked before Vista = People hate Vista

right?

but:

Mac OS X Betas leaked before RTM = People get more interested in OS X.


See that?

How can that be possible?

Simply, Vista is nowhere near what was promised for longhorn

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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 8:26 am 
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Longhorn was nowhere near what was promised for Longhorn. Hence the reset.

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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 1:47 pm 
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I do fully support grabberslasher's opinion. And I think overwhelming majority does, at least at heart. Except those teenagers, whose egoism overshadows good sense and force them to not pay attention to promises, honour, feelings and wishes of other people but their own animal desire.

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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 7:25 pm 
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Raiker wrote:
I do fully support grabberslasher's opinion. And I think overwhelming majority does, at least at heart. Except those teenagers, whose egoism overshadows good sense and force them to not pay attention to promises, honour, feelings and wishes of other people but their own animal desire.


No offense, but I'd appreciate it if that said some teenagers... unless by saying those teenagers you were only talking about a certain group :)

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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 7:40 pm 
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Jeff wrote:
Raiker wrote:
I do fully support grabberslasher's opinion. And I think overwhelming majority does, at least at heart. Except those teenagers, whose egoism overshadows good sense and force them to not pay attention to promises, honour, feelings and wishes of other people but their own animal desire.


No offense, but I'd appreciate it if that said some teenagers... unless by saying those teenagers you were only talking about a certain group :)


Lol don't nit-pick people whose first language isn't English ;)

And, for what it's worth, most of the private groups I've seen are pretty young, which is really cool to see; new people interested in older stuff, new friends, etc :).

I wish I could attribute the lack of morality of some of these leakers to 'youth', but I think it's a far deeper thing than that, and it saddens me to see. All [a lot of] people want are builds and more builds, and so many of them think it's absurd that other people don't leak because of something like trust, etc.

Even if you manage to survive all the beta communities with a 'me!me!me!' attitude, you won't survive in life being the same. If there's anything we all should learn in the forums is how to respect people and the other people who trust them, and not have yourself call their trustability into question.

Now I can look back at this post and smile sadly, because it won't make a difference to 99% of you. But for that other 1%, you are the ones who'll shape the forums to come.

Peace

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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 8:06 pm 
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hounsell wrote:
Longhorn was nowhere near what was promised for Longhorn. Hence the reset.

No it had most of the stuff but it crashed a lot. so don't say that it didn't have what was promised. it just didn't have the maturity.

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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 9:24 pm 
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Core 2 Idiot wrote:
hounsell wrote:
Longhorn was nowhere near what was promised for Longhorn. Hence the reset.

No it had most of the stuff but it crashed a lot. so don't say that it didn't have what was promised. it just didn't have the maturity.


<rant>
Longhorn did not have what was promised. Did it ever have WinFS Working? (Broken hardly counts. It wasn't buggy, it simply never even worked, with the exception of the contacts option). The UI still left a lot to be desired (Animated Preview Pane Aurora, Aero, Avalon, Phodeo, Carousel, etc), they had so many more plans than they ever implemented. And that wasn't working great. And Microsoft have promised more stability with every Windows OS, and that wasn't happening with Longhorn.

Now don't misunderstand me, Longhorn was a great idea. But often the best ideas don't stand up in the real world. Longhorn simply did not work, and Microsoft realised it was not going to work out. They simply were going to run out of time and talent. They realised they'd built things wrong, and that their method which had served them well for previous Windows versions, just wasn't going to stand up to the complexity of Longhorn. Microsoft's aims for Longhorn were extremely high, almost an ideal OS, and ideals usually fail. Longhorn did nothing to buck the trend.

Again, I think Longhorn's a great concept and interesting to play with, but I wish some people would stop considering it to be perfection. It wasn't. It was never going to be. It was not getting better, but worse. Drastic times required drastic actions, and the reset was realistically the only option left to Microsoft.
</rant>

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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 5:16 pm 
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4066 Had most of that stuff and 4039 had some too

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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 5:33 pm 
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I full agree with grabberslasher's point and I do respect people who won't leak things becuase of promises.

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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 6:05 pm 
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Core 2 Idiot wrote:
4066 Had most of that stuff and 4039 had some too


Pff only visual stuff, and even so it's so far from finished it's unreal. The OS was dying, or as Microsoft joked "in fibrillation". The reset was the application of the defibrillator, to jump start Longhorn's heart :)

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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 7:27 pm 
The whole fascination with keeping beta leaked is that a lot of them are highly confidential, many people are threatened that if they do loose them they'll loose there job as well, it would count on the product for me if I leaked it, if it was a loyal developer I don't really think they would mind after the application has been released, that's what I feel is what is recommended. Leaking something early always causes hype, changes can make the game have bad feedback, especially if some of the things in the leaked prototype were taken out of the main game.

A good example of releasing something with the application released was Counter-Strike: Condition Zero: Deleted Scenes, it came with the original game and had a selection of the levels by the original developer before the game was leaked too many times for VALVe to care.


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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 9:51 pm 
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I have only one unleaked beta, but the only reason i'm not leaking is that it would ruin me and the suppliers friendship.


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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 10:36 pm 
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My view is if you have something and are not going to leak it then just shut up about it and don’t say anything. You have nothing to gain by showing off.

I can personally understand why someone wouldn’t leak something, for example it could be watermarked or traceable back to the source of the leak. You might think so what but as someone posted earlier the source could lose their job and have their life ruined. But again if its that important know one else has it don’t talk about it.

What does annoy me is people who post on here saying yeah I have that beta but won’t share it unless you give me something rare in return. Let’s be honest you probably have access to more Beat’s than anywhere else I know of on the net here... and people still want more. If people didn’t share this website wouldn’t be here today.


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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 9:00 am 
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The amount of pretentiousness and selfishness of this blog post is just sickening.

Believe it or not, the average Joe will not even know about leak. My friends and coworkers are completely clueless that this leak happened. The only people who are interested in this are enthusiasts, like us at BA and other similar sites.

As well, how does the author justify himself having the build for 3+ months?

Edit:

Quote:
I guess the point I am trying to make with all of this is 6519 never should have been leaked, but it is the unfortunate fact that we have some people in this community that just can’t seem to keep anything under wraps and thinks that leaking a build will gain them some kind of celebrity status. That could not be more inaccurate. Within the last few years leakers have been looked upon as the black sheep in the community, for the exact reasons that I mentioned earlier. The fact is that these people will never learn, and will likely continue to do things like this. I say, enjoy your pointless leaks of expired builds while I sit here and laugh at all of you :).


Andy, is that directed at you?


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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 1:51 pm 
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Is it just me, or are new comments are disabled now?

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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 2:12 pm 
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I'll never understand that quote. It was an anonymous leak and no-one's claiming credit (well, no-one that had the opportunity), so how can it be about fame?

I think this says more about the poster than it says about the leak. The whole post completely misses the point and no one gives a [censored] about their opinion, more people are interested in the build.

I honestly don't care one bit about the leak, it didn't really mean anything to me (though the helping hand it gave to my post count won't be forgotten :P). I think that actively discouraging people from leaking is pointless. It generally has little effect for the cause they intend.

Ultimately, if something leaks, good. Interesting. How that came to leak is none of mine, or anyone else's business, with the exception of the leaker and their source.

Andy didn't leak the build really. He just provided the server. He says that the leaker wishes to remain anonymous, and I don't care who it is. It leaked. It was going to happen sooner or later the rate people were getting it. It's an old build, it's nothing to get upset about.

I wish people wouldn't make something out of it. So it leaked, hardly a big deal, certainly not something so awful to warrant such pointless, uninformed posts from self-appointed 'experts'. If they were real experts, they would have looked into it more.

Ultimately, even if you have reasons for not liking the fact it leaked, it has, there is nothing you can do about it. I don't see any point in worrying or complaining about something so relatively small. If it really is so important, I think you need to get a perspective. I'm sure there are more important things in anyone's real life than an old build of 7.

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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 3:03 pm 
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I agree on that. After all it's just a piece of software, no big thing to get over-exited about. And it's not worth losing friends, your job, your reputation or your freedom over it either.

As I wrote before, please DO leak. It's good for software to come out so people can see where it's heading, and it gives people not directly affiliated with Microsoft a chance to see what is happening at Redmond. But do not leak if it puts you in trouble. Any trouble. And don't brag about something you can't give away, that creates only a "I am better than you" kind of situation, and everyone gets pissed.

As a beta community we strive to get betas, so it's not odd that we want more and more of them. But it has to be with the understanding that it's just software, and a free time hobby. And it's not entirely without risk either.


Regarding the Vista subject:

Fact: Vista did not fail. Windows ME didn't fail either, it was just not as successful as its predecessor.

1: Microsoft overhyped Longhorn. It wasn't the leaks that did it, Whistler leaked a lot too and see what it became. Microsoft promised a lot to the public and delivered very little. If they had kept their PR office closed people wouldn't have been so "disappointed" (what is there to be disappointed over anyway? If you don't like it don't buy or use it. It's not like it's changing your life.)

2: Longhorn was the first consumer OS by Microsoft that had such a long development time, that time allowed Windows XP to mature into a really good OS. And it became perhaps too good for Microsofts own good. Not only was XP based on Windows 2000 which was the first solid consumer OS MS did, but it was so well patched and supported that people didn't feel they needed anything better.

I remember when XP came out. It was the same whine as with Vista. It's too slow, it's too big, it's too demanding, it's useless, not needed etc. Why would we need it when Windows 98 works so well? Driver support sucks, Windows XP is unstable etc etc etc. Have most of you been in the computer business so little that you don't remember this time? When XP came out people sat on old Pentium II machines and they said it was too slow, that XP was too bloated etc.

And see where we are now. XP is the best OS everyone cares to remember, and Vista is the new bad dog. Wait 3-4 more years and we'll have this discussion again, but then it's Vista that kicks ass, and 7 sucks etc. People tend to live like they were born yesterday and forgetting about the past. Or they simply ignore it. I have been around for enough long time to hear that Windows 3.1 sucked, Windows 95 sucked, Windows 98 sucked, Windows Me sucked. All because they were new, and people used it on underpowered hardware that was outdated for the OS to properly support. Or they simply didn't have the patience to wait for a proper driver, instead they hammered into their heads that it sucked and then spread the poison.

On a personal note, I use Vista. I love it. I think it's the first REAL attempt on a modern hardware-driven OS with security in focus. Sure it has its flaws. But I can also get really mad at Windows XP, or MacOS X too (mentioned it since people seem to look at it as the holy grail of OS:es). But I can understand that Vista doesn't work well for some people. Perhaps they expected too much. Perhaps they don't have the patience to learn it. You can't have a new OS while keeping the old, you can either keep the cake, or eat it. Not both. I had a nasty business with XP before SP1, it didn't work well at all for me, so I kept using Windows 2000 until SP1 came. By then MS had fixed the most serious issues and driver support had started to become good. Just as Vista is now. On a modern computer Vista flies, and it still does everything the normal user does, even play older games. It just takes a bit to get used to, and takes time to learn the new trinkets.

Sorry for being so long-winded, but I really hate all these "experts" claiming that MS is bankrupting because of Vista, or claiming to know the absolute fact of why it "failed". It didn't. It just has not been on the market as long as XP, and people tend to over-exaggerate when they dislike or misunderstand something. Especially some fanboys that simply MUST hate something over an unimportant and trivial bug or feature that didn't live up to their expectations.

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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 3:11 pm 
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mrpijey, you hit it spot on.

When XP came out, I was a 98 guy. I swore by 98 on my 1.3GHz Duron machine with 512mb RAM :) It took me about a year to decide to finally change to XP. When I finally did, it was a god send. No more crashes. A stable OS. Everything worked on it. Then Vista came around and I had the same opinion as I did back then. That was all until I came to build my new PC. Dan (DanielC) basically said, look, if you're getting a new PC, you're going to need Vista to make the best of it. At least give it a chance, at least a week. I was reluctant but I agreed, and here I am now 3 months later with Vista still on my machine running smooth as anything.

Regarding the leaking, again mrpijey hit it on the spot. Without leaks, we'll never be able to get as excited as we do about future Windows editions than if they never existed. It would all boil down to "Oh, another OS. Mine works fine, it can't have much new in it". But when you see what you're going to get, you think "Oh, I want that!" so it makes you more likely to want the new product as well as getting a chance to try it out first hand.

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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 3:20 pm 
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mrpijey wrote:
I agree on that. After all it's just a piece of software, no big thing to get over-exited about. And it's not worth losing friends, your job, your reputation or your freedom over it either.

As I wrote before, please DO leak. It's good for software to come out so people can see where it's heading, and it gives people not directly affiliated with Microsoft a chance to see what is happening at Redmond. But do not leak if it puts you in trouble. Any trouble. And don't brag about something you can't give away, that creates only a "I am better than you" kind of situation, and everyone gets [censored].

As a beta community we strive to get betas, so it's not odd that we want more and more of them. But it has to be with the understanding that it's just software, and a free time hobby. And it's not entirely without risk either.


Regarding the Vista subject:

Fact: Vista did not fail. Windows ME didn't fail either, it was just not as successful as its predecessor.

1: Microsoft overhyped Longhorn. It wasn't the leaks that did it, Whistler leaked a lot too and see what it became. Microsoft promised a lot to the public and delivered very little. If they had kept their PR office closed people wouldn't have been so "disappointed" (what is there to be disappointed over anyway? If you don't like it don't buy or use it. It's not like it's changing your life.)

2: Longhorn was the first consumer OS by Microsoft that had such a long development time, that time allowed Windows XP to mature into a really good OS. And it became perhaps too good for Microsofts own good. Not only was XP based on Windows 2000 which was the first solid consumer OS MS did, but it was so well patched and supported that people didn't feel they needed anything better.

I remember when XP came out. It was the same whine as with Vista. It's too slow, it's too big, it's too demanding, it's useless, not needed etc. Why would we need it when Windows 98 works so well? Driver support sucks, Windows XP is unstable etc etc etc. Have most of you been in the computer business so little that you don't remember this time? When XP came out people sat on old Pentium II machines and they said it was too slow, that XP was too bloated etc.

And see where we are now. XP is the best OS everyone cares to remember, and Vista is the new bad dog. Wait 3-4 more years and we'll have this discussion again, but then it's Vista that kicks ass, and 7 sucks etc. People tend to live like they were born yesterday and forgetting about the past. Or they simply ignore it. I have been around for enough long time to hear that Windows 3.1 sucked, Windows 95 sucked, Windows 98 sucked, Windows Me sucked. All because they were new, and people used it on underpowered hardware that was outdated for the OS to properly support. Or they simply didn't have the patience to wait for a proper driver, instead they hammered into their heads that it sucked and then spread the poison.

On a personal note, I use Vista. I love it. I think it's the first REAL attempt on a modern hardware-driven OS with security in focus. Sure it has its flaws. But I can also get really mad at Windows XP, or MacOS X too (mentioned it since people seem to look at it as the holy grail of OS:es). But I can understand that Vista doesn't work well for some people. Perhaps they expected too much. Perhaps they don't have the patience to learn it. You can't have a new OS while keeping the old, you can either keep the cake, or eat it. Not both. I had a nasty business with XP before SP1, it didn't work well at all for me, so I kept using Windows 2000 until SP1 came. By then MS had fixed the most serious issues and driver support had started to become good. Just as Vista is now. On a modern computer Vista flies, and it still does everything the normal user does, even play older games. It just takes a bit to get used to, and takes time to learn the new trinkets.

Sorry for being so long-winded, but I really hate all these "experts" claiming that MS is bankrupting because of Vista, or claiming to know the absolute fact of why it "failed". It didn't. It just has not been on the market as long as XP, and people tend to over-exaggerate when they dislike or misunderstand something. Especially some fanboys that simply MUST hate something over an unimportant and trivial bug or feature that didn't live up to their expectations.


You hit the nail RIGHT on the head! Vista is a very nice and stable OS. I've been using a 64-bit version of it lately and it kicks butt, to say the least. Movements are very fluid, programs open insanely fast, and the stability is increadible...but I also have the hardware to run this OS, as alot of people who love Vista so much do as well. 4GB RAM (cost me $70, not a big deal) and an Intel Core 2 Duo Processor. Now, I've tried running this monster of an OS on a Pentium III 1.0GHz...I wanted to shoot myself. But then again, this OS is not designed for older hardware. Most people should have at least a P4 by now. If not, then you may want to do yourself a favor and upgrade a little. For the $250 you'll pay for the OS, you can also obtain the necessary hardware to run it on. That's just my opionion......and good Lord, I forgot what we were talking about!

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 PostPost subject:        Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 4:01 pm 
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Favourite OS
Server 2012 R2
I like Vista SP1. I recently came to reinstalling my PC's OS, and I thought I'd try a number of alternatives. I tried OSx86, I tried a number of Linux Distros. But ultimately, I went with a Vista SP1 single-boot. Why? Because unlike no other OS for PC, it 'just works' and it does work well. I've not had a blue screen since December when I played with 3718 and DCE on a real PC.

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