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 PostPost subject: Removal of all Nintendo content        Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2018 1:10 am 
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Due to Nintendos relentless hunt for any website carrying their ROMs, software and related content all Nintendo and related software is effectively removed from the FTP until further notice. Nintendo has been chasing down sites and handing out C&D orders causing several ROM, emulation and even database and wiki sites to go offline as they don't want their content registered anywhere regardless if it's "abandonware" or not. BetaArchive will not take any chances of being a target of Nintendo so we're taking the safe road here by removing all Nintendo games and related software.

Perhaps in the future Nintendo will come to their senses and allow discontinued games to be openly shared (or at least ignore anyone distributing them) so we can continue preserving them, but for the time being that seems unlikely.

For those willing to upload betas they will still be archived offline until it's safe to share them, and BetaArchive will continue working on archiving old and outdated games, but none will be shared on the FTP, requested or linked to on the forums.

Discussing Nintendo betas and old games, sharing screenshots, videos etc will still be allowed on the forums.

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 PostPost subject: Re: Removal of all Nintendo content        Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2018 1:37 am 
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This is excellent news.

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 PostPost subject: Re: Removal of all Nintendo content        Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2018 1:55 am 
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Maza wrote:
This is excellent news.

I don't think this is excellent at all, I would rather call this sad reality. One can only thank god Microsoft doesn't hunt after sites carrying any of their software because that would be a death-knell for BetaArchive...

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 PostPost subject: Re: Removal of all Nintendo content        Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2018 2:38 am 
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Can you still apply for FTP with these? Just uploaded one moments ago for FTP access.


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 PostPost subject: Re: Removal of all Nintendo content        Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2018 3:37 am 
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So sad we have to deal with these irritating (to say the least) legal problems with such companies and the stuff they release, (and the cooler stuff that people happen to find) keeping us from enjoying what we already have and can always access one way or another...

It would be so satisfying to watch so many companies and corporations of software and hardware completely burn to the ground. That way, they no longer have control of anything of theirs and everything becomes FREE!
(Disclaimer: this is simply a fantasy rant, so admins please don't delete this post or ban me, I'm only expressing what many others are probably thinking but refuse to admit.)

I can't even begin to describe the benefit of having fully public and open access to ALL of the precious "intellectual property" that billion $$$$ companies are desperate to protect, especially designs of circuit boards and entire systems-- forget software, we could finally build custom devices from existing models and fix the mistakes on the original, because we all know that no matter how hard corporations tried to make decent boards and devices, THEY SCREWED UP!
As for software, dunno about a total dump of everything, but at the very least they should get rid of those frankly disastrous prohibition laws, starting with the obsolete DMCA. So what if they lose money? People are dying BECAUSE they're making money!!!

In a perfect world, none of this would ever be an issue, but that'll never happen. Although there is one question that remains unanswered; seeing how people were able to leak software information, why hasn't anyone tried to leak hardware/circuit board designs? It's still digital information, just a slightly different format.


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 PostPost subject: Re: Removal of all Nintendo content        Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2018 5:02 am 
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This is the unfortunate reality of abandonware sharing, many people realize that what we do as hobby, is history. We have to thank that other corporations do not do what Nintendo do. Copyright laws should always be respected, but old, unsupported software is generally forgotten by the creators (MS even released MS-DOS source code a while back), and because of this we do what we doo.

Unfortunately what Nintendo has been doing is beyond the boundaries of this stuff. This is good news and bad news as well.

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 PostPost subject: Re: Removal of all Nintendo content        Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2018 5:56 am 
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I love Nintendo games more than anything, but this is rather cruel. Why would they go after their own prerelease versions of first-party titles?


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 PostPost subject: Re: Removal of all Nintendo content        Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2018 6:26 am 
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gtgamer468 wrote:
I love Nintendo games more than anything, but this is rather cruel. Why would they go after their own prerelease versions of first-party titles?


For all we know, it probably has something to do with this "intellectual property" BS. From what I hear, anything involving firmware or specially coded image files, you need sign about a dozen NDAs just to get in the front door.


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 PostPost subject: Re: Removal of all Nintendo content        Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2018 9:58 am 
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Well, as sad news as this may be, you gotta do what's best to keep this site afloat..

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 PostPost subject: Re: Removal of all Nintendo content        Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2018 10:35 am 
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needbetabulidsfast wrote:
Can you still apply for FTP with these? Just uploaded one moments ago for FTP access.

Yes that's fine. We still accept Nintendo contributions, but we won't publish them for the time being.

gtgamer468 wrote:
I love Nintendo games more than anything, but this is rather cruel. Why would they go after their own prerelease versions of first-party titles?

Well, if you think about it, prerelease software is unfinished software that may include technologies and content never meant for public access, or show internal functionality that they want to protect. Nintendo didn't go specifically for sites with prerelease software but for sites with any software, and we won't take the chance if some crackerjack lawyer doesn't know the meaning of "alpha" or "beta".

The modern copyright laws are written for a time when the same product had a life and market expectancy of 80+ years (products such as books). In todays fast paced digital world this is not the case anymore and software is replaced more often than the shoes on your feet, but the copyright laws still are there. Made by vintage people and upheld by vintage people because they don't understand what they are protecting. At the same time companies have absolutely no interest in preserving their own stuff. I've been in contact with dozens of companies, foreign and domestic, trying to discuss the worth of preservation and trying to broker a deal, but none of them has been slightly interested. For them it's all about pure profit, history be damned. Both Apple and Microsoft has destroyed huge amounts of their own history by sending tons of original software to the scraps, and hadn't it been for a few dedicated employees at Microsoft and Apple none would have survived. And yet what they have is only a small portion of what they produced. What baffles me however is the total disinterest of dedicated people around the world trying to preserve their stuff. Neither Nintendo, Apple, Microsoft or others would lose anything by allowing people to enjoy the software that long gone, outdated, unsupported and not sold anywhere except third party as vintage.

Remember however that the sole reason for a company to exist is to earn money. And you do that by creating products to sell, but also to protect the same products from being copied or counterfeited or sold outside of their control. Naturally Nintendo doesn't have anything to lose really by allowing sharing an old NES game that would never end up in a virtual library of theirs, nor would they be hurt by allowing fans picking apart a beta. But for a company total control over their own product, regardless if it's the technology behind the product or the product name itself, is the most important thing. This is why we still have antiquated copyright laws, and this is why they are enforced so heavily. And the only way a company can show that they still protect their own brands is by shutting down anyone trying to use it. In this case, shutting down sites carrying their stuff to show that they still care about the brands and don't want anyone else to infringe on it. And in these cases there is no "case to case" distinction, it's either all or nothing.

And with Nintendo it's even worse, since they are so hooked on their quarterly figures that they even chase down Youtube content creators for streaming videos of their games, they chase down old abandonware sites and fansites for sharing old games that Nintendo don't have any interest in offering themselves, even for a modest sum. The closest we got was the Virtual Console library and Nintendo offers only a minimal subset of their games there, and for a hefty price. And it's also something they want to kill off completely in the end, while at the same time chasing down any remnants of their legacy online. This is my friends, a first class method of creating a lot of bad will which will eventually kill them off. See what happened to Bethesda, EA etc for creating a lot of badwill for the community that is feeding them.

Someone mentioned why there isn't much leaks of hardware circuit board designs, there is. Tons of it. There's a whole industry setup around it. Most counterfeit products pouring out from Asia and South America has been designed from stolen PCB designs and unlawful use of production lines. It's just no community setup around it all since no one would bother sitting down and solder together their own 52" OLED TV, computer motherboard or even a toaster, they wouldn't have the time, skill set or technology to do that and it's just cheaper to buy one. But for counterfeiting companies in said countries it's big money since they don't need to do any R&D and they can toss out an inferior product for half the cost and earn twice as much as the legit one. So it's extremely common.

However in the end we at BetaArchive have to protect ourselves as we don't want to risk getting shut down. We will still continue preserving their software and maybe in the future when Nintendo has been taught some humility and respect for the people feeding their quartelrly quotas they will back off and let us enthusiasts enjoy their legacy titles.

Have a good New Year everyone!

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 PostPost subject: Re: Removal of all Nintendo content        Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2018 6:13 pm 
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Thanks for comment! :)


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 PostPost subject: Re: Removal of all Nintendo content        Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2018 7:58 pm 
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Well said. I do agree that the copyright laws must be overhauled to meet present-day standards. Nintendo must be shown that what they're doing is unfair business practices. It's ridiculous that they're after people who simply want to share the enjoyment of their retro taste of classic Nintendo games. Even worse, they feel that emulation is another name for piracy.


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 PostPost subject: Re: Removal of all Nintendo content        Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2018 12:58 pm 
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Glad to hear this. Of course it's sad this content will be now kept offline, but having a potential Nintendo lawsuit looming in the distance would be terrible. If they went in for the kill, that would be the end of BetaArchive, as they're extremely unrelenting in burrying "pirates".

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 PostPost subject: Re: Removal of all Nintendo content        Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2018 9:42 pm 
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gtgamer468 wrote:
Well said. I do agree that the copyright laws must be overhauled to meet present-day standards. Nintendo must be shown that what they're doing is unfair business practices. It's ridiculous that they're after people who simply want to share the enjoyment of their retro taste of classic Nintendo games. Even worse, they feel that emulation is another name for piracy.


On that note copyright "laws" should be REVOKED, abolished, and erased from history. The only thing a CL was ever SUPPOSED to do is keep people from taking something and claiming it as their own and/or selling it. Thanks to democrats, this thing has gotten so overblown that even clicking on a random file or typing in a name will get FBI, CIA, and about a millions lawyers at your front door.
And to whoever came up with the atrocious and disastrous DMCA "laws," just crawl into a ditch and die why don't you. There's no point in prohibiting something that we already have! In fact, a prime example of beating oppressive regulation is when Phil Zimmermann was so determined to give everyone the freedom to use his new PGP software, he published the entire source code of PGP in a hardback book! He basically gave this country's prohibitive law the middle finger by using older laws against current ones, which to this day is THE BEST WAY to "pirate" something, or even steal corporate secrets, simply publish it in a BOOK!


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 PostPost subject: Re: Removal of all Nintendo content        Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2018 11:22 pm 
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Well, copyright laws are not only an issue in the US, it's a world wide problem and we face the same issue with it regardless what country you're in. The US is just a tiny part of the whole, and EU or other countries are no better. Copyright laws ARE needed, but they need to be heavily trimmed down and regulated. A company that invents or develops something must have a chance to protect it against theft, but not decades after its sales, support and use as ceased. So with Nintendo for example (which isn't a US company btw) they should of course own every copyright for "Super Mario", the character, artwork etc and heavily defend it, but the product "Super Mario Bros for Nintendo Entertainment System/Famicom System" should be lifted and treated as public domain. For example.

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 PostPost subject: Re: Removal of all Nintendo content        Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 5:42 am 
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Krytus wrote:
On that note copyright "laws" should be REVOKED, abolished, and erased from history. The only thing a CL was ever SUPPOSED to do is keep people from taking something and claiming it as their own and/or selling it. Thanks to democrats, this thing has gotten so overblown that even clicking on a random file or typing in a name will get FBI, CIA, and about a millions lawyers at your front door.
And to whoever came up with the atrocious and disastrous DMCA "laws," just crawl into a ditch and die why don't you. There's no point in prohibiting something that we already have! In fact, a prime example of beating oppressive regulation is when Phil Zimmermann was so determined to give everyone the freedom to use his new PGP software, he published the entire source code of PGP in a hardback book! He basically gave this country's prohibitive law the middle finger by using older laws against current ones, which to this day is THE BEST WAY to "pirate" something, or even steal corporate secrets, simply publish it in a BOOK!

Placing the plural form of the word law inside quotation marks neither alters nor invalidates these laws or their legitimacy. Get over yourself.

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 PostPost subject: Re: Removal of all Nintendo content        Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 2:06 pm 
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Nintendo is a terrible company and I am never buying one of their products ever again. Hell, look at Sega, they HIRE their fangame devs!


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 PostPost subject: Re: Removal of all Nintendo content        Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2019 4:06 am 
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winnt32 wrote:
Nintendo is a terrible company and I am never buying one of their products ever again. Hell, look at Sega, they HIRE their fangame devs!

That is your choice but do note that Nintendo did not request BetaArchive to remove any content; rather, the removal was a precautionary measure. You might because of this write that it is still a terrible company, but the business of one person is inconsequential. Clearly the company is doing something correctly.

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 PostPost subject: Re: Removal of all Nintendo content        Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2019 8:45 pm 
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winnt32 wrote:
Nintendo is a terrible company and I am never buying one of their products ever again. Hell, look at Sega, they HIRE their fangame devs!

Maza wrote:
That is your choice but do note that Nintendo did not request BetaArchive to remove any content; rather, the removal was a precautionary measure. You might because of this write that it is still a terrible company, but the business of one person is inconsequential. Clearly the company is doing something correctly.

While I do not condone piracy and I do have to respect Nintendo's decision on protecting their intellectual property, what people are alarmed about is Nintendo disregarding the preservation and accessibility of their earlier materials since they have not offered a repository on their own platforms that is superior to the ROM sites bring targeted. Sure there is Virtual Console, but unfortuantely they are not set to last. The Wii's VC being the most extensive Nintendo has gotten at offering a retro library, but it's only a few weeks until the Wii Shop Channel goes down. With the lack of official ways of playing these retro games on newer architecture leads to scalping (Sellers consciously inflating an item's cost due to its increase in collector interest despite having a marginal amount of copies made) on the open market of both the games themselves and the actual hardware needed to run them as now they're seen as collectable relics to just be displayed on a shelf than games one wishes to revisit, which then leads to the inevitable evil that is piracy and ROM sharing. I recommend taking a look at this YouTube video regarding the topic of what would happen in a world where Nintendo ROM sharing, fan mods/projects, and console emulation no longer exist.

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 PostPost subject: Re: Removal of all Nintendo content        Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2019 10:31 pm 
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winnt32 wrote:
Nintendo is a terrible company and I am never buying one of their products ever again. Hell, look at Sega, they HIRE their fangame devs!

That is your choice; there is nothing we others can do. You are going to boycott the entire Nintendo line of consoles and hand-held consoles, from the NES all the way to the Switch, as well as all of their games, including Super Mario Bros...

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 PostPost subject: Re: Removal of all Nintendo content        Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2019 11:32 pm 
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I feel that Nintendo ROMs over 20 years old should be in public domain.


Look at Super Mario 64. Can you find a copy still sold? Of course not! You'll have to look for a copy on 2nd hand and online stores like eBay or Amazon or whatever. But do Nintendo earn any money from this trade? No! The only person earning money from selling a copy of SM64 is the seller!

Nintendo won't earn any more money from SM64 because it's not sold anymore. Since it's not being sold anymore, that means that no revenue from that game goes to Nintendo. This will apply to digital content as well 10-20 years from now. That's why people want to mod their console - to dump the games and keep them and preserve them.


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 PostPost subject: Re: Removal of all Nintendo content        Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2019 11:35 pm 
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iProgramInCpp wrote:
I feel that Nintendo ROMs over 20 years old should be in public domain.


Look at Super Mario 64. Can you find a copy still sold? Of course not! You'll have to look for a copy on 2nd hand and online stores like eBay or Amazon or whatever. But do Nintendo earn any money from this trade? No! The only person earning money from selling a copy of SM64 is the seller!

Nintendo won't earn any more money from SM64 because it's not sold anymore. Since it's not being sold anymore, that means that no revenue from that game goes to Nintendo. This will apply to digital content as well 10-20 years from now. That's why people want to mod their console - to dump the games and keep them and preserve them.

Did you forget about the Virtual Console?

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 PostPost subject: Re: Removal of all Nintendo content        Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 12:19 am 
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iProgramInCpp wrote:
I feel that Nintendo ROMs over 20 years old should be in public domain.

Look at Super Mario 64. Can you find a copy still sold? Of course not! You'll have to look for a copy on 2nd hand and online stores like eBay or Amazon or whatever. But do Nintendo earn any money from this trade? No! The only person earning money from selling a copy of SM64 is the seller!

Nintendo won't earn any more money from SM64 because it's not sold anymore.

Legislation pertains more than whether the company earns revenue from a transaction. The characters, for instance, are the company's intellectual property, which is why Nintendo targets those who create and/or distribute fan projects.
iProgramInCpp wrote:
This will apply to digital content as well 10-20 years from now.

A bold claim seeing as Nintendo has generated revenue from its archaic content in the Virtual Console on the Wii—over a decade after the release of the console. This should be the case for current and future console iterations.
iProgramInCpp wrote:
That's why people want to mod their console - to dump the games and keep them and preserve them.

Anyone who wants to preserve the games can already retain them by legally buying copies instead of circumventing law or infringing rights.

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 PostPost subject: Re: Removal of all Nintendo content        Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 1:04 am 
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Maza wrote:
Anyone who wants to preserve the games can already retain them by legally buying copies instead of circumventing law or infringing rights.

But what if a legitimate copy of a game I'm interested in playing is too expensive in the current markets and there's no other way of obtaining one at a fairer price? Does that translate to "Too bad, go back to watching YouTube videos of someone else playing it"?
Also personally retaining a copy is more in the lines of "collecting" than it is "preserving". Sure "collecting" is technically archiving a work, but it's up to the individual's discretion to keep it secure and in public consciousness, rather than "preserving" where a work is kept safe in the best form available thanks to community effort like here in BetaArchive. Granted it depends on the scarcity and other factors, but it's assuming the work is scarce and/or commonly scalped.
Not implying that my definition of "preservation" is synonymous with piracy, by the way. Just as long as there's community consciousness of keeping the work in check and out of the wrong hands to ensure a copy of it doesn't get illegaly distributed (or even worse, illegaly sold). However, I understand we don't live in a perfect world so my definition is bound to have flaws more than anything.

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 PostPost subject: Re: Removal of all Nintendo content        Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 10:57 pm 
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LilShootDawg wrote:
Did you forget about the Virtual Console?

Well, Nintendo sure has.

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