Post subject: Changes to FTP and forum policy Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 7:25 pm
Joined Tue Feb 12, 2008 5:28 pm
Posts 7935
Due to recent events it has come to attention to us that certain kind of files carry a much higher risk of being misused and misinterpreted. It's one thing to release binaries which requires extensive knowledge to trace and debug, but it's an another when you got the original developer code in front of you in all its glory. Every nuance, every method, every command and call just as the developers intended. This can, for an experienced debugger, lead to a very good understanding of how the developer thought when making the code, the methodology behind it, and for a debugger or coder with malice intent also a very good way of finding exploits within the source code. Even if the recent events and overreaction by the sensationalist-depraved media proved to be pretty harmless it shows that we need to be more careful what is being put online.
Therefore we are going to remove all source code compilations from this site. Any distribution of source code will also be prohibited and the only source code discussed must be linked to the developer site or an acknowledged code respository (such as Github, Sourceforge etc). This prohibition includes, but it is not limited to:
Any abandonware or beta software source code, original or modified.
Any modification of such packs, kits or distributions.
It doesn't matter if it's deemed open source or not. We do not carry open source software and will not carry open source code. It also doesn't matter if the source code is freely distributed by the developer, if needed to be shared it should be linked to the original developer source.
Post subject: Re: Changes to FTP and forum policy Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 8:53 pm
Joined Thu May 01, 2014 10:26 pm
Posts 1500
Location Inside the space between . and I
Favourite OS Nashville 4.00.83
While source codes should be removed (as the owner of OpenNT has removed the source codes from his github, etc.) I am also with rififi and also wonder if SDK, DDK, PDK (including in some Chicago builds, etc) count or not.
Post subject: Re: Changes to FTP and forum policy Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 9:33 pm
Joined Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:37 pm
Posts 63
Favourite OS Whistler or Longhorn?
Regarding new softwares (like Windows 10), I can understand the move and it's a wise one. But regarding the source code which was on the FTP (sometime for years), I'm not sure the removal is of any use (except giving some food to the dogs? look we are doing something). The fact that it was on the FTP means that it was probably everywhere else so one more place is not probably a problem. All hackers on this planet probably have the Windows 2000/NT4/Research Kernel on their hardrive. I'm not even sure these leaks had an impact on security issues.
Some source code which was on the FTP was also made available by their authors... like Adobe Photoshop... Mayvbe you plan to put the allowed ones online after doing some sorting?
Post subject: Re: Changes to FTP and forum policy Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 10:21 pm
Joined Tue Feb 12, 2008 5:28 pm
Posts 7935
So far we've had no authors that gave us direct permission to publish their source code on BetaArchive. And it doesn't matter if it's already widely spread or not, we are not going to host it any longer. We removed the old Windows NT/2000 source code a long time ago due to its controversy, and we removed the recent Shared Source Kits, although harmless, due to its current controversy.
As for the SDKs, DDKs and similar kits they will for now be unaffected, Microsoft distributes these freely and openly on their website for any public build, so as long as we have other builds they will remain. Same with the MSDN kits as well as they are part of the MSDN subscription packages and also freely distributed (for those paying for the subscription of course). The developer kits are more public so they are less in the spotlight than any source kits that are heavily regulated by closed door agreements.
We don't know each source code license and with what permissions they were originally released so we will take the safe route and simply not allow any of it. We may in the future add the Shared Source Kits if they are deemed to be safe, but for now they will remain unreleased and on the ban list. We simply need to investigate more what they contain and how they are distributed. And if the source code section is reintroduced again then it will be heavily regulated by our abandonware policies without any exceptions like modifications or anything like that. There will be a discussion about this in the future, but for now source code packs are strictly forbidden.
Post subject: Re: Changes to FTP and forum policy Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 10:27 pm
Joined Sun Feb 01, 2015 2:15 am
Posts 139
mrpijey wrote:
So far we've had no authors that gave us direct permission to publish their source code on BetaArchive. And it doesn't matter if it's already widely spread or not, we are not going to host it any longer. We removed the old Windows NT/2000 source code a long time ago due to its controversy, and we removed the recent Shared Source Kits, although harmless, due to its current controversy.
As for the SDKs, DDKs and similar kits they will for now be unaffected, Microsoft distributes these freely and openly on their website for any public build, so as long as we have other builds they will remain. Same with the MSDN kits as well as they are part of the MSDN subscription packages and also freely distributed (for those paying for the subscription of course). The developer kits are more public so they are less in the spotlight than any source kits that are heavily regulated by closed door agreements.
We don't know each source code license and with what permissions they were originally released so we will take the safe route and simply not allow any of it. We may in the future add the Shared Source Kits if they are deemed to be safe, but for now they will remain unreleased and on the ban list. We simply need to investigate more what they contain and how they are distributed. And if the source code section is reintroduced again then it will be heavily regulated by our abandonware policies without any exceptions like modifications or anything like that. There will be a discussion about this in the future, but for now source code packs are strictly forbidden.
What would be your position on the source code for certain early software, such as the source code that Microsoft made available in March 2014 for MS-DOS 1.1 and 2.0 along with Microsoft Word for Windows 1.0? The old code for those old products doesn't seem to be generating any controversy right now, which is why I ask.
Post subject: Re: Changes to FTP and forum policy Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 10:48 pm
Joined Tue Feb 12, 2008 5:28 pm
Posts 7935
I don't see computerhistory.org as an official source for Microsoft source code. I want to see a reference where Microsoft has acknowledged that this source code has been released and under what license.
Also, if it's on computerhistory.org, then why do we need to archive it here?
As one of the largest computer museums in the United States (if not the largest), I would trust the Computer History Museum to not post anything that isn't legally re-distributable.
Post subject: Re: Changes to FTP and forum policy Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 6:59 am
Joined Sun Feb 01, 2015 2:15 am
Posts 139
mrpijey wrote:
I can't speculate about what might or might not happen, for now all source code is banned.
But the files that I'm talking about were released to the public by Microsoft as stated above. Are you saying that the files were only allowed to be legally distributed on the Computer History Museum website itself, or is there another reason for why even those particular files are still not allowed here? Note that I am not trying to argue or anything like that here, I'm just asking your opinion, since the files were an official Microsoft release, and not a "leak" of any type.
Also, since the FTP server previously accepted open source software that was distributed on CD-ROM, will those remain, or will they be removed?
Post subject: Re: Changes to FTP and forum policy Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 9:08 am
Joined Sun Feb 01, 2015 2:15 am
Posts 139
AlphaBeta wrote:
SoftPCMuseum wrote:
Also, since the FTP server previously accepted open source software that was distributed on CD-ROM, will those remain, or will they be removed?
All source code means all source code. The folders were fully removed last time I checked.
I was referring to free and open source software such as certain Linux distributions (commonly referred to as "FOSS" here) in that question, not the "Source Code" folder that was removed.
Post subject: Re: Changes to FTP and forum policy Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 11:23 am
Joined Tue Feb 12, 2008 5:28 pm
Posts 7935
The Linux distributions will remain as they are not mere source code packs, but actual compiled operating systems that happen to be open sourced and include open source code. And we only accept original discs of linux distros and nothing else as we keep them for their originality. We don't accept any other open source software.
The only thing that has changed now is actual source packs, nothing else. I.e all the source folders we had.
Post subject: Re: Changes to FTP and forum policy Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 11:59 am
Joined Thu Jun 13, 2013 4:46 pm
Posts 979
I am not convinced with this change in policy.
If you were to bow down to some media misreporting , what will you do if some media outlet accuses you of breaking Microsoft's laws because you're storing a pre-released version?
With this context , I wonder if the site itself will shut down because someone on the media misreports or blows up something in proportion.
Post subject: Re: Changes to FTP and forum policy Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 1:56 pm
Joined Tue Feb 12, 2008 5:28 pm
Posts 7935
A lot of what-ifs and speculation. That's irrelevant really, what matters is what happened now, and we've taken this decision to be safe than sorry regarding the source code. We will, when time allows, revisit this policy and see if we can draw up something that will allow us to keep more source codes, but for now it's banned. No need for convincing, the decision has been made by me and Andy for security reasons.
Post subject: Re: Changes to FTP and forum policy Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 2:12 pm
Joined Tue Feb 12, 2008 5:28 pm
Posts 7935
All Windows 10 packs were removed until I can review all of it is safe to release. Microsoft only released recent FOD packs, we had a lot more older ones.
Post subject: Re: Changes to FTP and forum policy Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 2:52 pm
Joined Fri May 14, 2010 1:29 pm
Posts 865
Location Southern Germany
Favourite OS IRIX 5.3
Sad news for BA indeed. But understandable in light of those recent events.
Any ETA on when the source code files will be removed? I'd like to grab as many of them as I possibly can before they are deleted. Can you supply a (current) list of files which will be affected by the wipe? I think I have all the interesting ones (UNIX/VMS source code mainly) but just to make sure I'm not missing any, a full list would be helpful.
-Darkstar
_________________ I upload stuff to archive.org from time to time. See here for everything that doesn't fit BA
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