Why is the information scarce about private Longhorn builds?

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ATeamInc
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Why is the information scarce about private Longhorn builds?

Post by ATeamInc »

What is up with all these private Longhorn builds? And why is the information so little about them? And most importantly, why aren't they leaked? Even reading this article doesn't make sense.
Just a question
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Re: Why is the information scarce about private Longhorn bui

Post by Edness »

ATeamInc wrote:why is the information so little about them? And most importantly, why aren't they leaked?
ATeamInc wrote:What is up with all these PRIVATE Longhorn builds?
You already answered all your questions by mentioning that they're private. Those builds are owned by someone who most likely wishes to not ruin their trust with MS. That trust with them could very easily be tarnished by them just uploading a build to the public that MS gave them for testing. That or some other reason, but this is the main one from what I've seen. So you can't really get much information about these builds because only a select handful of people actually have it, the rest of the world can only see what they've shown e.g. screenshots.
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Re: Why is the information scarce about private Longhorn bui

Post by ATeamInc »

Edness wrote:... Those builds are owned by someone who most likely wishes to not ruin their trust with MS. That trust with them could very easily be tarnished by them just uploading a build to the public that MS gave them for testing. That or some other reason, but this is the main one from what I've seen. ...
Even today? Does MS still care about these?
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Re: Why is the information scarce about private Longhorn bui

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Even if Microsoft doesn't care, the people that have those builds may think that they do.

Furthermore, the EULA, NDA, and copyright are still in effect.

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Re: Why is the information scarce about private Longhorn bui

Post by ReflectiaX »

The most important thing for you to understand about your perspective is that you're looking at this through the lens of an enthusiast. If even a sizeable fraction of Windows developers at Microsoft were hobbyist Windows folks, then there would be considerably more builds available. Alas, this as a hobby/interest of yours is ultimately comprised of what was very much work to Microsoft employees (and quite miserable work for many of them through the LH dev cycle). The last thing on their minds was keeping binaries with the intention of collecting or being of interest to folks such as yourself.

Now, imagine you're a developer at Microsoft--let's say in lab06. You're working on stuff separate from the rest of your team (and your team is working on stuff separate from the rest of the company). Let's say you've been tasked with developing a new feature in the shell, like an email notification something or other in the taskbar and sidebar. Now, you go and develop that stuff and need to test the feature over time as your team and the rest of the OS division develop the OS. Thus, you compile private builds via the most up-to-date source code from either the main branch or your team's branch.

Depending on your tenure, you end up with countless builds that serve no purpose for you beyond testing.

As for those who have private builds but don't leak them, it's like Edness basically said: footprint. If a private build leaks, that GREATLY reduces the scope of an investigation. Now, at THIS point, no, it most likely wouldn't matter to Microsoft if old, private LH build binaries leaked. However, speaking from first-hand experience, private builds are never given with the intention of them being specifically discussed--much less publicly leaked, ever. Could that change over time with whatever build that someone shared however long ago? Sure. But maybe X person is still an employee there and would rather not deal with a potential investigation after the fact.

Suffice it to say, there are many reasons that private LH builds will never be something you see much of beyond build tags taken from individual binaries found in other leaked builds.

If it's any consolation, most private builds rarely have anything exciting or noteworthy within them (at least not from the perspective of what makes it a private build).
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Re: Why is the information scarce about private Longhorn bui

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Random_User wrote:Even if Microsoft doesn't care, the people that have those builds may think that they do.

Furthermore, the EULA, NDA, and copyright are still in effect.
when would copyright not be in effect? i'm fairly sure thats why ms-dos 1 recently went open source, though i may be mistaken. assuming it is, will, say, longhorn builds ever be public domain?
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Re: Why is the information scarce about private Longhorn bui

Post by DanielOosterhuis »

ATeamInc wrote:
Edness wrote:... Those builds are owned by someone who most likely wishes to not ruin their trust with MS. That trust with them could very easily be tarnished by them just uploading a build to the public that MS gave them for testing. That or some other reason, but this is the main one from what I've seen. ...
Even today? Does MS still care about these?
Of course. Confidential data is confidential data, the people that receive this are expected to treat it as such, even decades later. Even if Longhorn isn't relevant anymore, the trust Microsoft put into the people holding that data is. Plus, these builds could contain technology that Microsoft still works with/on that they wouldn't want spread out like wildfire on the 'net. If someone who still works with Microsoft after such a long time leaks data from a decade or more ago, that will still have massive consequences for their relation with Redmond.
InsertGoodNameHere wrote:when would copyright not be in effect? i'm fairly sure thats why ms-dos 1 recently went open source, though i may be mistaken. assuming it is, will, say, longhorn builds ever be public domain?
Open source doesn't mean it's not still copyrighted. Also, it will take a very, very long time for Microsoft's software works to fall into the public domain, by U.S. Laws and Regulations. I'm not a professional in any of this, but it seems that Microsoft works would fall in the public domain either 95 years after publication, or 120 years after the date of creation. In other words, most of us will likely be passed on or extremely old of age by that point.

And even then, Microsoft, if it still exists in the 2100s, might have avenues to block it from falling into public domain given they are the publisher and are active as such. And who says the builds will still exist by that point either? If it's in the hands of a select group of people, and maybe a backroom server here or there at Redmond, plenty can happen to the files that will render them permanently lost. People with the files pass away, hardware fails or gets lost, Microsoft purges old and irrelevant (to them) files, etc.

And as for Microsoft publishing the source code like they're doing with MS-DOS, unless they move on from NT, I don't think that will happen either. The whole thing with MS-DOS is that its technology has been vastly superseded by the Windows NT technology. That source code has very little in common with what Microsoft is running their operating systems on right now. The same can't be said for Longhorn.

Tl;dr If Longhorn builds even ever fall into the public domain, it will take a century or so to do so from when they were released, if the files even still exist and MS doesn't block it from happening.
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Re: Why is the information scarce about private Longhorn bui

Post by LarryTN7722 »

DanielOosterhuis wrote:
InsertGoodNameHere wrote:when would copyright not be in effect? i'm fairly sure thats why ms-dos 1 recently went open source, though i may be mistaken. assuming it is, will, say, longhorn builds ever be public domain?
Open source doesn't mean it's not still copyrighted. Also, it will take a very, very long time for Microsoft's software works to fall into the public domain, by U.S. Laws and Regulations. I'm not a professional in any of this, but it seems that Microsoft works would fall in the public domain either 95 years after publication, or 120 years after the date of creation. In other words, most of us will likely be passed on or extremely old of age by that point.

And even then, Microsoft, if it still exists in the 2100s, might have avenues to block it from falling into public domain given they are the publisher and are active as such. And who says the builds will still exist by that point either? If it's in the hands of a select group of people, and maybe a backroom server here or there at Redmond, plenty can happen to the files that will render them permanently lost. People with the files pass away, hardware fails or gets lost, Microsoft purges old and irrelevant (to them) files, etc.

And as for Microsoft publishing the source code like they're doing with MS-DOS, unless they move on from NT, I don't think that will happen either. The whole thing with MS-DOS is that its technology has been vastly superseded by the Windows NT technology. That source code has very little in common with what Microsoft is running their operating systems on right now. The same can't be said for Longhorn.

Tl;dr If Longhorn builds even ever fall into the public domain, it will take a century or so to do so from when they were released, if the files even still exist and MS doesn't block it from happening.
The lifespan of readable CD/DVD discs at most is 100-200 years, so it is possible but unlikely that Longhorn discs would be readable 95-120 years (when they fall into the public domain) after they were burned.
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Re: Why is the information scarce about private Longhorn bui

Post by Random_User »

InsertGoodNameHere wrote:when would copyright not be in effect? i'm fairly sure thats why ms-dos 1 recently went open source, though i may be mistaken. assuming it is, will, say, longhorn builds ever be public domain?
The MS-DOS 1.0 source code was released by its copyright holder (Microsoft). Copyright holders and licensors can voluntarily release the copyrighted and licensed material in question. That does not negate how long copyrights last in general. Nor does it have any effect on any other copyright, license, or NDA.
LarryTN7722 wrote:The lifespan of readable CD/DVD discs at most is 100-200 years, so it is possible but unlikely that Longhorn discs would be readable 95-120 years (when they fall into the public domain) after they were burned.
That's true of optical discs, but that doesn't preclude Microsoft from having made or continuing to make backups of their archives.

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